I do not like this at all, very very bad move Mr President.
@Right_in_Virginia is this true?
Donald J. Trump
Verified account @realDonaldTrump
The United States was supposed to be in Syria for 30 days, that was many years ago. We stayed and got deeper and deeper into battle with no aim in sight. When I arrived in Washington, ISIS was running rampant in the area. We quickly defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate,.....
...including capturing thousands of ISIS fighters, mostly from Europe. But Europe did not want them back, they said you keep them USA! I said “NO, we did you a great favor and now you want us to hold them in U.S. prisons at tremendous cost. They are yours for trials.†They.....
.....again said “NO,†thinking, as usual, that the U.S. is always the “sucker,†on NATO, on Trade, on everything. The Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so. They have been fighting Turkey for decades. I held off this fight for....
...almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to.....
...figure the situation out, and what they want to do with the captured ISIS fighters in their “neighborhood.†They all hate ISIS, have been enemies for years. We are 7000 miles away and will crush ISIS again if they come anywhere near us!
4:40 AM - 7 Oct 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181172467676565505
@jpsb
@jpsb
@jpsb
The 'fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' line has always had a kind of a smell to it.
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?
Oh really? So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?
OK, thanks, I hate these endless wars too but I also hate abandoning the Kurds.
How many US lives and how much treasure is it worth to you, Chosen? What are you willing to sacrifice?
And when we're done there, BTW, there are several dozen other examples of persecution and aggression left to address in the rest of the world. We've certainly got our work cut out for us. Maybe we should tackle Kashmir next.
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever. The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.
I was wondering if any of the Orange Brigade at TBR would defend his actions. You answered that question nicely, and predictably.
Trump is a huge failure. He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs.
I do not like this at all, very very bad move Mr President.
@Right_in_Virginia is this true?
You don't know me and I wouldn't dignify your post by answering anything personal. But I am sure there are many military families that may.
Trump is a huge failure. He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs. Instead of Diplomacy he engages in name calling and childish texts. Texts that insult instead of encourage diplomatic ties.
You don't like him - I got it. I was just wondering if you had any other reason for disagreeing with his Syria policy.
Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds, who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror? Yeah, that't the ticket.
Donald Trump, please step down and allow Pence to govern.
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever. The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?
You don't like him - I got it. I was just wondering if you had any other reason for disagreeing with his Syria policy.
The 'fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' line has always had a kind of a smell to it.
How many US lives and how much treasure is it worth to you, Chosen? What are you willing to sacrifice?
And when we're done there, BTW, there are several dozen other examples of persecution and aggression left to address in the rest of the world. We've certainly got our work cut out for us. Maybe we should tackle Kashmir next.
I neither defended nor attacked the President. I simply asked a question.
All I ever hear is the drumbeat "we cannot abandon the Kurds". So, I asked a question, the central question that few are willing to answer: With the Kurds we have always been and continue to be generous with our treasure, must we also be generous with our blood?
Yes or no? @catfish1957
Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over
this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave
the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history
on Turkey and genocide.
But the Kurds are not a monolithic group @jpsb And not all are our friends. But we still supply them with weapons and money to carry on their never-ending fight against the Turks, et.al.
I suppose another way of asking the central question is: With the Kurds we are generous with our treasure, must we also be generous with our blood?
How much blood have we shed with the Kurds? The article says that they've lost over 11,000 fighters, but I didn't see ours.
Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over
this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave
the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history
on Turkey and genocide.
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?
but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to.....
...figure the situation out
Begs the question how badly they need American bodies over there, doesn't it.
Begs the question how badly they need American bodies over there, doesn't it.
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.
The border is still being invaded. He signed laws that further entrenched that situation.
Obamacare is still the law of the land.
Extreme deficit spending is as bad as it has ever been.
1st and 2nd (and other) amendment freedoms are slipping away.
Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history on Turkey and genocide.
So we're going for version 2 of Bush #1 abandoning the Kurds to Saddam after we asked them to rise up and "help" us...
It is a bloody stain on our country and will cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives all over again.
It is of low character to start something and not keep your word if at all possible. Why would anyone take our word for life and death issues in the future. Honor comes with a cost.
Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds, who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror? Yeah, that't the ticket.
Donald Trump, please step down and allow Pence to govern.
How much blood have we shed with the Kurds? The article says that they've lost over 11,000 fighters, but I didn't see ours.
And what is our 'word'? That we insert and keep ourselves in the middle of an ancient feud that will never end?
You're making a great argument for not involving ourselves in internecine conflicts in the first place.
I fully agree. After all they've cost us we should know better by now.
Sooo.... I guess this means we'll also be (finally) pulling completely out of Afghanistan, as well. Right?
@catfish1957 this is more of the Rand Paul radical Libertarian isolationist influence we're beginning to see take hold.
"We would prefer to die of starvation than to live under the oppression and occupation of others. If this decision is made by referendum and the reaction is to isolate us, let our people die,†Kurdistan President Masoud Barzani told Foreign Policy magazine in June.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/opinion/03092017 (https://www.rudaw.net/english/opinion/03092017)
Wouldn't it be nice?
I would like a responsible draw-down, though.
And speaking of radical isolationist influence....
Ok General...with all your military expertise...tell us what that looks like.
Go ahead...I'll wait. :2popcorn:
They've been our fiercest alleis on the war on terror and at the tail end of the Obama Administration straight through to now it appears...we're going to reward their loyalty as an ally and a fighting force by leaving them to be slaughtered by the Turks.
They don't want to live under the yoke of oppression as they did with Saddam. It would be worse with the Turks.
How is that statement any different than someone saying "give me Liberty or give me death!"?
Turkey's Syria incursion may allow ISIS to attempt mass prison break amid US withdrawal, Kurdish fighters warn
https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal (https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal)
I think it has been done before (HWBush). They're probably getting used to it.
But logistically, how much good can a mere 1,000 soldiers do in an ongoing conflict like this? And...if they're not doing that much good anyway, why are they even there? It's an age-old can of worms that, if we really want to help, could be assisted the old fashioned way. With US $$$ & arms.
So.... another one step forward, two steps back and ISIS wins?
Then where is the rest of the world, and Europe, re: stopping that from happening? Surely they have concern. [crickets]
You think this is a bad move. I could respect this @jpsb if you tell me why this is worth losing one man or one woman wearing the American military uniform. What do we gain?
A smart man defers to a smarter man. How would you do it?
The Pentagon may have better answers than you or I, though.
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.
Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.
I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.
Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.
I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.
Romney calls Trump's Syria decision a 'betrayal' of Kurds
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464642-romney-calls-trumps-syria-decision-a-betrayal-of-kurds
Don't you hate it when Romney's right?
I don't think giving Turkey a green light to invade Syria so the Turks can wipe out our ally the Kurds is a good idea. In fact I think it is a
terrible idea. I want the troops home too, at the very least Trump should have told Turkey to stay out of Syria. The Turks are as bad
as the NAZIs were.
(http://evangelicalfocus.com/upload/imagenes/553a2d21e09e5_genocide630.jpg)
April 24th, 1915. This is the day in which the Armenian Genocide was started by the Ottoman Empire. 1.5 million people would lose their lives in the following years, intellectuals would be arrested, children given away to families they did not belong to, and many were deported, starved to death or sent to concentration camps.
Many Armenians were killed at the hands of Kurds, but unlike the rest of Turkey, the Kurds — who have since faced severe repression themselves — are beginning to atone.
But what you are not stating and this is old history now; but the Kurds helped the Turks in that genocide. The Kurds even back then, wanted their own homeland and so, helped out.
Don't ever forget that as well.
https://www.pri.org/stories/kurds-turkey-atone-their-role-armenian-genocide (https://www.pri.org/stories/kurds-turkey-atone-their-role-armenian-genocide)
Every source will tell one this, though, I think it was mainly one tribe or a small percent of them.
Don't you hate it when Romney's right?
Rush will defend Trump no matter what he says or does...
...and with 99.8% accuracy, too! :pop41:
Okay, if the USA had never gone over there in the first place, one can argue that ISIS never would have risen up, it's been a comedy of errors though, I think Obama deserves most of the blame.
Mike
@Doranimated
We aligned under Obama not with “the Kurds,†but with the PKK, the sworn enemy of the Turkish Republic, our ally. We were sowing the seeds of a Turkish-PKK war with that policy. We were also driving Turkey toward Russia.
https://twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1181125761203408897
Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
Replying to
@LindseyGrahamSC
and
@ChrisVanHollen
Hope and expect sanctions against Turkey – if necessary – would be veto-proof.
This decision to abandon our Kurdish allies and turn Syria over to Russia, Iran, & Turkey will put every radical Islamist on steroids. Shot in the arm to the bad guys. Devastating for the good guys.
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1181219809427623936
Nikki Haley
@NikkiHaley
·
2h
We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend
https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1181191973367160834
It's a bit disconcerting. Maybe the Kurds are the bait to draw them out in the open?
Maybe Rush can sort it out. He's on in 30 min.
The Kurds spilled their blood for us, they have also been allied with the Christians (Assyrians) though, 100 years ago, 1915 and maybe 1918 too, they persecuted them.
So, I think in part, this is what this is about... but that doesn't change things to me.
Also, as of 2 days ago, there were mumurings that the Turks themselves could have fired on our troops. There's a whole lot of bogus info out there. A lot of people very upset, me too... like last December, all we do is go back to the same square one and why Mattis left.
Graham is already announcing a bill that would sanction Turkey if they invade, about the most we could do, it doesn't sound like much.
Graham has been on top of this all the way, I note that anti-Graham thread yesterday but I think he's doing well.
I don't think giving Turkey a green light to invade Syria so the Turks can wipe out our ally the Kurds is a good idea. In fact I think it is a
terrible idea. I want the troops home too, at the very least Trump should have told Turkey to stay out of Syria. The Turks are as bad
as the NAZIs were.
Sooo.... I guess this means we'll also be (finally) pulling completely out of Afghanistan, as well. Right?
I know, now Trump is saying, if the Turks do not behave, he will destroy their economy. Well, maybe he knows what he's talking about. I'm not saying he does, just stating what is going on.
Romney calls Trump's Syria decision a 'betrayal' of Kurds
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464642-romney-calls-trumps-syria-decision-a-betrayal-of-kurds
Economic sanctions "may", if at all, only work on a long-term basis. What about the here and now urgency of folks being slaughtered? I want the troops home as much as anybody, but I don't want the US to be the cause of allowing genocide or massacres. It's a Catch-22.
No... But at least put a plan in place to get them out of harms way.
I totally agree, what Graham suggested sounds a bit impotent. That was my immediate reaction.
Our nukes are also over at Incilirk airbase in Turkey.
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.
Which... makes absolutely no sense to me. WTH?
Don't you hate it when Romney's right?
Rush will defend Trump no matter what he says or does...
Okay, if the USA had never gone over there in the first place, one can argue that ISIS never would have risen up, it's been a comedy of errors though, I think Obama deserves most of the blame.
Hence the reason I stopped listening to him 3 years ago.
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever. The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.
I was wondering if any of the Orange Brigade at TBR would defend his actions. You answered that question nicely, and predictably.
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.
Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven .... even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)
You'd think we'd be smarter than to get in the middle of a foreign feud by now, thinking we can 'solve' the centuries old problem from thousands of miles away
I guess not.
How much are you willing to scarifice on our home soil when the attacks start over here?
Absolutely right. There is blood on the ground. And that blood holds a promise to allies. Ad it holds a commitment to win. This is a shameful day.
Doesn't matter. We're in it now. So win it.
So we're going for version 2 of Bush #1 abandoning the Kurds to Saddam after we asked them to rise up and "help" us...
It is a bloody stain on our country and will cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives all over again.
It is of low character to start something and not keep your word if at all possible. Why would anyone take our word for life and death issues in the future. Honor comes with a cost.
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.
Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven .... even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)
Whether you agree with the decision or not, it should come as no surprise. Trump is an isolationist through and through. He distrusts the entire foreign intelligence apparatus, which has been wrong about every foreign intervention since the Kuwait War, and thinks only in terms of American interests. Personally, I find this point of view refreshing in a US president. I wish GWB had this kind of hesitancy before he got us entangled in Iraq.
The truth is, all countries exist as the result of the use of force. If countries are going to exist thanks to us using our force, then we ought to be getting some benefit.
That high horse makes your ass look big.
Show us your post(s) displaying the same emotion when Obama/Biden unilaterally picked up and left Iraq?
Pres. Trump has already 'promised' Turkey he will destroy their economy if he doesn't play nice.
Does he strike you as man who doesn't keep his promises?
There's plenty to debate whether we should have given our word in the first place - but we did. Either we honor it or we don't.
I wish GWB had this kind of hesitancy before he got us entangled in Iraq.
Right becasue allowing Saddam to look the other way while al Qaeda had training camps and were testing nerve gas concoctions and (surprise) fighting the Kurds should have just gone unchecked.
"Our war on terror begins with al-Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated." ~ George W. Bush Septemer 2001
Any truth to the reports that since 2017 PKK is fighting alongside Antifa @txradioguy ?
Is this the same GW Bush that was watching yesterday's Cowboys game with Ellen DeGeneres?
:3:
Right becasue allowing Saddam to look the other way while al Qaeda had training camps and were testing nerve gas concoctions and (surprise) fighting the Kurds should have just gone unchecked.
"Our war on terror begins with al-Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated." ~ George W. Bush Septemer 2001
Oh really? So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?
That high horse makes your ass look big.
Show us your post(s) displaying the same emotion when Obama/Biden unilaterally picked up and left Iraq?
Pres. Trump has already 'promised' Turkey he will destroy their economy if he doesn't play nice.
Does he strike you as man who doesn't keep his promises?
You don't know me and I wouldn't dignify your post by answering anything personal. But I am sure there are many military families that may.
Trump is a huge failure. He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs. Instead of Diplomacy he engages in name calling and childish texts. Texts that insult instead of encourage diplomatic ties.
You left out Yellow Cake.
Well I must say I had no idea it'd be that easy.
Can't wait to hear the plan.
You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.
You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.
You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.
RIV I am posting links to articles not proposing a solution to the Kurd/Turkey problem......If I knew what to do I would be in DC!
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.
I don't even know where you came up with that totally insane question. Considering the PKK is in the Middle East and Antifa is a completely home grown hard left organization what you're asking is well...
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.
I'm not saying it's true ... my asking if there's any truth to these reports was a serious question @txradioguy Those reports are, obviously, cropping up again and I figured you would know more than I about this.
So I'll ignore the snark and go with a "no" answer from you.
Thanks.
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.
Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven .... even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)
Hours after announcing his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria — provoking alarm and outrage among foreign policy experts, Republican officials and right-wing commentators who warn it could empower ISIS in the region — President Trump on Monday defended the move as an expression of his “great and unmatched wisdom.†He coupled it with a warning that he’d “totally destroy and obliterate†the economy of Turkey if he’s unhappy with how the country carries out its planned assault on Kurdish fighters.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-my-great-unmatched-wisdom-totally-destroy-obliterate-turkey-syria-170430952.html (https://news.yahoo.com/trump-my-great-unmatched-wisdom-totally-destroy-obliterate-turkey-syria-170430952.html)
That wasn't snark.
Please link to this silliness you tossed out into the middle of this discussion.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018141/ISIS-connection-anarchists-revealed-Ed-Klein-book.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018141/ISIS-connection-anarchists-revealed-Ed-Klein-book.html)
Awww thanks. RIV. APpreciate that.
Ed Klein huh? I figured it had to be some kind of Progressive "journalist". Thanks for proving me right.
BTW...@DCPatriot I thought you always dismissed people who were writers for Newsweek...the NY Times and gossip columnists as not credible and "fake news"?
Are they fake news when they are critical of Trump and legit sources when you're White Knighting for someone? Just trying to figure out when Newsweek and the NY Times are credible and when they aren't.
Bingo! 888high58888
Charles C. W. Cooke
✔
@charlescwcooke
Maybe we shouldn’t let the executive branch decide on a whim where and when we are at war, and where and when we are not. We could do something else instead, maybe involving the legislature. We could call it Article I, Section 8, Clause 11.
Charles C. W. Cooke
✔
@charlescwcooke
Replying to @charlescwcooke
Don’t ask, tell. That’s the legislature’s job—arguably its most important job. At present, the executive has a free hand, and it can proffer or withdraw it at will. Don’t reactively sanction the actions you dislike; draw hard lines that must be followed. https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1181181862183604224 …
Charles C. W. Cooke
✔
@charlescwcooke
Replying to @charlescwcooke
“I’m alarmed that the president is usurping the constitutional authority of my branch,†said Senator Partisan (D/R-All 50 States). “I intend to ask him to reverse course, do nothing else legislatively, and then endorse him for re-election, just as I’ve done for decades.â€
Nope....all I did was google Isis Antifa Connection....and grabbed the first one that wasn't Alex Jones. :tongue2:
That wasn't snark.
Please link to this silliness you tossed out into the middle of this discussion.
Charles Cooke was totally trashed as a member of the TOS. He was deemed not a "conservative" because he didn't bend with the populist wind there.
That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me before.
I get it...
That does not mean I am for the moderate globalist nation building that is going on parallel to that purpose... The true purpose is apparent, and served nonetheless.
:beer:
:beer:
LOL! I think Ed Klein and Alex Jones would get along quite nicely. Funny thing about people like them...regardless of politics...they are both so far to the left and right fringe they end up meeting in the middle and find lots of common ground.
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.
Is this the same GW Bush that was watching yesterday's Cowboys game with Ellen DeGeneres?
:3:
Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.
#BREAKING The US has redeployed only 50-100 troops away from Syria's northern border as Turkish troops threaten to cross, a senior administration official said, denying reports that Washington pulling out completely from the country
https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1181323484015861762.
You Retweeted
Joyce Karam
@Joyce_Karam
·
1h
Wow US Senior official completely contradicts Trump on #Syria
• NOT beginning of Pullout
• US troops moving within Syria
• US 50 Special Ops moving to different locations/basis
• US doesn’t support Turkey operation but mentions refugees + ISIS captives
https://mobile.twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1181316118633431040
It's a throwback to the Cold War, we had nukes there to keep the USSR/Russkies in place. That's my view, nothing expert about it.
Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.
I don't know what to think.
I don't like abandoning the Kurds, but the Kurds also have their own internal problems as well as the PKK.
The rest of the Middle East is also a dog's breakfast and everything we do there turns to turd.
Yet, if we leave it alone as we have tried before, things like 9/11 happen, Israel is attacked, Iran sows terrorisim everywhere, and Russia gets back into empire building mode. Now throw China in the mix.
What the hell do you do?
And what makes you think the Kurds would accept this?
I don't know what to think.
I don't like abandoning the Kurds, but the Kurds also have their own internal problems as well as the PKK.
The rest of the Middle East is also a dog's breakfast and everything we do there turns to turd.
Yet, if we leave it alone as we have tried before, things like 9/11 happen, Israel is attacked, Iran sows terrorisim everywhere, and Russia gets back into empire building mode. Now throw China in the mix.
What the hell do you do?
Drill deep, drill wide. Drill here, drill there, pretty soon man you drill everywhere.
At the same time, support "alternate" energy sources by getting gov't out of the picking winners/losers.
Without massive oil revenues, what's the ME good for? I believe it was @thackney who once posted that the SOBs even had to import sand.
Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.
Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.
I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.
WTF are you talking about. Obama abandoned the Kurds. IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.
Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now. And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.
I don't even know where you came up with that totally insane question.
Considering the PKK is in the Middle East and Antifa is a completely home grown hard left organization what you're asking is well...
It is true that there was a large jihadi call to the region and we got rid of a lot of people that may have had designs of causing problems here. Still, we have someone like Muqtada al-Sadr in charge of Iraq, now. Along with fighting them there, instead of here, there was the whole idea of nation building and western style democracy, spreading across the region. That was folly.
Maybe hanging out at Q.
Lindsey Graham flat out said the president was lying about ISIS.
Have you a link to this "flat out" quote @Chosen Daughter
WTF are you talking about. Obama abandoned the Kurds. IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.
Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now. And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.
I totally agree, what Graham suggested sounds a bit impotent. That was my immediate reaction.
Our nukes are also over at Incilirk airbase in Turkey.
Well, you know... as time goes on... things change. I repeat....
WTH?
We don’t have nukes in Turkey.
Weapons provided for nuclear sharing (2019)
Belgium Kleine Brogel 20 B61
Germany Büchel 20 B61
Italy Aviano 40 B61
Italy Ghedi 40 B61
Netherlands Volkel 20 B61
Turkey Incirlik 50 B61
5 nations; 6 bases
Of the three nuclear powers in NATO (France, the United Kingdom and the United States), only the United States is known to have provided weapons for nuclear sharing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing)
Time to Pull US Nuclear Weapons Out of Turkey
Defense One, May 17, 2019
Storing nuclear weapons close to trouble is a bad idea, and giving Ankara a shared finger on the nuclear trigger is rapidly losing its charm.
Amid the recent self-congratulatory celebrations of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 70th anniversary, there was no mention one of its strangest policies: the nuclear sharing program that keeps American nuclear bombs in five NATO countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey) and trains host air forces to use them.
Thus at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 100 miles from the Syrian border, the United States stores some 20 to 80 B61 nuclear weapons for delivery by Turkish or American aircraft. There is not much comfort in knowing that these weapons are under direct American control in heavily guarded bunkers and are designed to be unusable without the proper codes. It is time to bring them home.
More: https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/ (https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/)
Just a reminder: The Kurds have been fighting a war with Turkey for 41 years. They're trying to annex Turkish territory for a Kurdistan of some sort or the other. Another clarification: Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America has it been to help America. They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed. For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure: Money, weapons and training.
Another reminder: Turkey is a NATO member ... one who is hosting, as I type, 50 US nuclear weapons. Like it or not, Turkey is our ally, not the Kurds.
For the do-gooders out there, if the US is to assist the Kurds with carving out a Kurdistan ... we'd need to directly fight at least one country. I wish some neocon would choose one and explain how we keep Russia out of it. Here are the potential battlefields--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey. Choose one.
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)
Iraqi Kurdistan or Southern Kurdistan[1] (Kurdish: باشووری کوردستان‎, romanized: Başûrê Kurdistanê) is the Kurdish-populated region incorporated into Iraq and considered by Kurds as one of four parts of Greater Kurdistan.[2] Much of the geographical and cultural region of Iraqi Kurdistan is governed by the Kurdistan Region (KRI) (Kurdish: هه‌رێمی کوردستان‎, romanized: Herêmî Kurdistan) which is an autonomous region recognized by the Iraqi constitution.[3]
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Ethnoreligious_Iraq.svg/310px-Ethnoreligious_Iraq.svg.png)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan)
Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America has it been to help America. They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed. For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure: Money, weapons and training.
...“We do get along great with the Kurds, we’re trying to help them a lot,†Trump answered:
Don’t forget, that’s their territory. We have to help them. I want to help them. They fought with us, They fought with us, they died. We lost tens of thousands of Kurds [who] died fighting ISIS. They died for us and with us. And for themselves, they died for themselves. But they’re great people, and we have not forget [sic].
https://newrepublic.com/article/155307/trump-withdraws-syria-america-screwing-kurds-yet
Why the hell is Turkey in NATO? This is actually a serious question @jpsb
Cold War, we needed bases in Turkey so we could threaten Russia on Russia's southern flank.
I believe it was @thackney who once posted that the SOBs even had to import sand.
Take your pick
https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Lindsey+Graham+Says+The+President+Is+Lying+About+ISIS&qpvt=Lindsey+Graham+says+the+president+is+lying+about+ISIS&FORM=EWRE (https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Lindsey+Graham+Says+The+President+Is+Lying+About+ISIS&qpvt=Lindsey+Graham+says+the+president+is+lying+about+ISIS&FORM=EWRE)
@XenaLee
We don’t have nukes in Turkey.
Mike Lee @SenMikeLee
Thank you, President Trump, for withdrawing U.S. military personnel from Syria. Undeclared wars are as unconstitutional as they are inadvisable. Those who disagree with this decision should ask Congress to declare war or otherwise authorize the use of military force.
12:43 AM · Oct 8, 2019
Mike Lee @SenMikeLee
Thank you, President Trump, for withdrawing U.S. military personnel from Syria. Undeclared wars are as unconstitutional as they are inadvisable. Those who disagree with this decision should ask Congress to declare war or otherwise authorize the use of military force.
12:43 AM · Oct 8, 2019
Again, you state a falsehood, the Kurds are NOT in a battle with Iraq. They have their own autonomous region.
Trump is seeming to contemplate the same idiotic decision that Obama made, hopefully he's walking it back.
I don't know if they are still there, but we did have about 50 nukes in Turkey during the cold war. Rumor has it that
they were moved out last year (2018).
Weapons provided for nuclear sharing (2019)
Belgium Kleine Brogel 20 B61
Germany Büchel 20 B61
Italy Aviano 40 B61
Italy Ghedi 40 B61
Netherlands Volkel 20 B61
Turkey Incirlik 50 B61
5 nations; 6 bases
Of the three nuclear powers in NATO (France, the United Kingdom and the United States), only the United States is known to have provided weapons for nuclear sharing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing)
Time to Pull US Nuclear Weapons Out of Turkey
Defense One, May 17, 2019
Storing nuclear weapons close to trouble is a bad idea, and giving Ankara a shared finger on the nuclear trigger is rapidly losing its charm.
Amid the recent self-congratulatory celebrations of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 70th anniversary, there was no mention one of its strangest policies: the nuclear sharing program that keeps American nuclear bombs in five NATO countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey) and trains host air forces to use them.
Thus at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 100 miles from the Syrian border, the United States stores some 20 to 80 B61 nuclear weapons for delivery by Turkish or American aircraft. There is not much comfort in knowing that these weapons are under direct American control in heavily guarded bunkers and are designed to be unusable without the proper codes. It is time to bring them home.
More: https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/ (https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/)
Donald J. Trump
Verified account @realDonaldTrump
The United States was supposed to be in Syria for 30 days, that was many years ago. We stayed and got deeper and deeper into battle with no aim in sight. When I arrived in Washington, ISIS was running rampant in the area. We quickly defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate,.....
...including capturing thousands of ISIS fighters, mostly from Europe. But Europe did not want them back, they said you keep them USA! I said “NO, we did you a great favor and now you want us to hold them in U.S. prisons at tremendous cost. They are yours for trials.†They.....
.....again said “NO,†thinking, as usual, that the U.S. is always the “sucker,†on NATO, on Trade, on everything. The Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so. They have been fighting Turkey for decades. I held off this fight for....
...almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to.....
...figure the situation out, and what they want to do with the captured ISIS fighters in their “neighborhood.†They all hate ISIS, have been enemies for years. We are 7000 miles away and will crush ISIS again if they come anywhere near us!
4:40 AM - 7 Oct 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181172467676565505
@TomSea
There's nothing "idiotic" about regional problems being solved regionally. There's nothing idiotic about ending endless war. We went to Syria for a 30 day engagement. What's idiotic is still being there. The President has always said if we go to war we fight to win and then leave. It's now time for us to leave.
As for the Kurds, yes, they fought ISIS --- but our interests dovetailed. We helped them as much as they helped us. Our mission is accomplished and we do not owe them our blood.
The fact that Rand Paul likes this move give me another reason to hate this move.
I'll restate mine too, no, we don't need to do the same idiotic things that Obama nor Bush did.
(Just tossing this out there, as one view of the situation.)
Again, you state a falsehood, the Kurds are NOT in a battle with Iraq. They have their own autonomous region.
And your talk about carving out a part of Turkey, we are talking about Syria here, we are NOT talking about freaking Turkey, we are not aiding Kurdish rebellion in Turkey.
And don't come out with "The Kurds have never helped us unless their interests dovetail with ours", the Kurds in no way, had to help us retake the ISIS capital of Syria and I assume you know what city that was. But they did.
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4101300.ece/alternates/s615/RAQQA-map.jpg)
Trump is seeming to contemplate the same idiotic decision that Obama made, hopefully he's walking it back.
No, for all of your bluster, the Kurds helped us, I"m sure they helped us plenty in Iraq, fight insurgents as well. That's probably why they are currently at peace with the ruling regime.
Prove the Kurds are fighting with the Iraqi government. If that is so, it shouldn't be hard to find proof.
Lastly, no Kurds, no defeat of ISIS in Syria, you seem to leave that part out. Trump claims he beat ISIS, to an extent, that's so and would not have without the Kurds.
And yet here we are doing exactly what Obama did. Screwing over an ally.
We're gonna really find ourselves alone in the world if we keep doing this to people who are willing to help us.
Pretty soon there won't be anyone out there left to help us at a time when we desperately need it.
I realize that my memory is a bit fuzzy, but.... I seem to recall that Turkey was one of the nations that refused to allow the US to 'fly over' during the Iraqi invasion by Bush. I'm no expert, but a nation that refuses such access is no damned ""ally"".
Allowing Turkey access to US nukes is about THE stupidest thing I've heard yet. What Einstein made that call?
Just so we don't completely lose our heads over whats happening here - we're withdrawing ~1000 personnel from northern Syria, who've been there just over two years. Presumably material support will continue.
Just some perspective.
And you notice he was out there doing another victory lap yesterday too.
Trump Administration Appears to Reverse Syria Decision Following Backlash
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2019-10-07/trump-administration-appears-to-reverse-syria-decision-following-backlash (https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2019-10-07/trump-administration-appears-to-reverse-syria-decision-following-backlash)
Here's some more perspective...those soldiers have been there for quite awhile and Turkey hadn't once made an aggressive move that I recall agaisnt the Kurds.
Trump decides to retreat and within 4-5 hours Turkey is launching attacks.
Just some perspective.
Kinda,
It sounds like we have walked back some of the talk.
So, others can judge this or can provide their perspective or expertise to this. I certainly don't have the latter.
It's a difficult call. Turkey is an ally, we could end up in a situation where they are firing at us for all I know.
Turkey has legitimate concerns about some factions of the Kurds, Kurdish guerillas have planted IEDs in Turkey, attacked police stations and things like that, traffic checks and road blocks, no one should deny this. PKK can scurry across the border for attacks and some press such as this "Syria Call" posts some stories that are definitely not positive about the Kurds.
Turkey has accepted over 3 million Syrian refugees, nobody wants to sugarcoat what is going on and Turkey appears to have legitimate concerns. There are a number of concerned sources, more like drama queens saying "turkey will commit ethnic cleansing" and thing slike that. We do need to see what will and can happen.
And again, Trump ran as a "non-interventionist" isolationist type; but that is by far, a done deal, when he has tossed out the JCPOA (Iranian Nuke Deal), if you've done that, again, force may be needed at some point.
Its not surprising. He is anti war. People like him would have had Hitler take over Europe. They don't believe in righteous war. A war to protect people from evil. So ISIS is definitely a righteous cause for the U.S military. While also keeping us safe from them on our own ground. But stopping genocide and ethnic cleansing has always been a right cause.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.†― Edmund Burke “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.†― Edmund Burke
We should be increasing military aid to the Kurds. Fight alongside them. Otherwise we are helping Turkey, Iran and Russia to do as they will with the Middle East.
Here's some more perspective...those soldiers have been there for quite awhile and Turkey hadn't once made an aggressive move that I recall agaisnt the Kurds.
Trump decides to retreat and within 4-5 hours Turkey is launching attacks.
Just some perspective.
By all means, continue your arm waving.
I don't know if they are still there, but we did have about 50 nukes in Turkey during the cold war. Rumor has it that
they were moved out last year (2018).
Translation: "I've got nothing to rebut that so I'll just throw out some nonsense as a reply."
My rebuttal is logical but you will not accept it so why bother? I do not believe we can fix the centuries old problem between the Kurds and the Turks and whomever else. Every other time we've intervened militarily in the ME we've failed to really improve anything, if our involvement hasn't actually made things worse. I am tired of wars with no congressional buy-in. I do not want to see another open-ended, indefinite military occupation.
But as I said, carry on.
No one here or in DC is talkign about that. No one is trying to fix the centuries old problems or engage in an endless war.
I've been reading replies from Rand Paul suppporters on social media and hearing it on talk radio yesterday by numerous callers so I see you've got the same talking points because they are saying almsot verbatim what you just said above. It's all fortune cookie bumpersticker crap.
This isn't about intervention...endless war or centires old conflicts. They've been critical in the fight against ISIS and now we're just gonna say "see ya you're on your own".
This is simply about do we or do we not abandon an ally.
How are we ever going to get anyone to trust us if we continue to do that to people that have bled and died along side us on the field of battle. How is it soild stratigic foreign policy to cut and run whenever we feel like it or it's not politically expedient for us to be engaged?
It's not.
Marco Rubio
@marcorubio
#Syria isn’t about neocons or hawks,it’s about reality.
The Kurds were lead ground force against ISIS & currently hold 1000’s of ISIS killers in jail. Abandoning them is morally repugnant,stains our nations reputation & could lead to 1000’s of ISIS killers back on battlefield.
8:17 AM · Oct 8, 2019·Twitter for iPad
https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1181559355256295424
Trump: Writing Letters to Parents of Fallen Soldiers is 'Hardest Thing I Have to Do' President opens up about the difficult process following death of troops
READ MORE: https://neonnettle.com/news/9036-trump-writing-letters-to-parents-of-fallen-soldiers-is-hardest-thing-i-have-to-do-
© Neon Nettle
Thanks for your contradictory non-answer.
All you did was try to characterize my reply. Thats why its not worth the effort.
Probably so...I think the initial message of what we are doing in Syria got, intentionally or not, a lot of people upset at how it came off. I think, if one wanted to avoid all of this, it should have been put differently.
As it is, almost nobody understands as to what it means and what is happening. It probably was made with some positive intent.
@XenaLee
They aren't an ally. And in the past they have repeatedly denied the U.S. use of Incirlik for offensice military purposes. The 4th Infantry Division of which I'm a curent member...was suppsoed to land the division at a port in Turkey and roll into Iraq from the north. And until the civil war in Syria broke out there was talk of dropping them form NATO because they'd become so hostile to the other partner nations.
Turkey...an (alleged) NATO ally...denied us use of their ports do offload the division.
But they sure were fast to invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter (Collective defence...an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.) when Syria bombed refugee camps inside Turkey.
Over the last 5 years they have physically harassed U.S. sailors during Liberty when their ship was in port...and as of 2016 family members of the U.S. military there had to evacuate to Germany because the situation had grown so tense. Turkey will not more than likely become an unaccompanied tour for those assigned there.
In addition to that Erdogan has been funneling oil via his pipelines to help ISIS market oil.
ANd here we go just backing out of the way....screwing over a very loyal ally in the region to let Turkey bomb the shit out of them.
Those are NATO shared nukes. Blame Brussels.
Let me guess. In other words... blame Obama = Soros?
If so, that figures. The evil Einstein behind most of the disastrous-for-America decisions and actions for the past decade plus.
If that's what you want to call it *shrug*...ok.
I rebutted your talking points and showed where your non-interventionist and isolationst beliefs are dangers and hurt our allies.
I must admit... I am conflicted about this issue. While I do want our guys brought home (nobody ever said they were supposed to stay in Syria forever).... I can see the critical issue of ISIS prisoners being allowed to be set free (by Turkish factions) as a deal breaker. Why the hell can't the US arrange a prisoner transfer to Gitmo? That would solve the main problem with pulling out. Am I missing something?I don't want to have to be buying these guys Fruitloops until some rat judge orders them released here under the US asylum policy. Why not let the Kurds deal with them old school. It'd be good therapy for em.
I don't want to have to be buying these guys Fruitloops until some rat judge orders them released here under the US asylum policy. Why not let the Kurds deal with them old school. It'd be good therapy for em.
Just so we don't completely lose our heads over whats happening here - we're withdrawing ~1000 personnel from northern Syria, who've been there just over two years. Presumably material support will continue.
Just some perspective.
No one here or in DC is talking about that. No one is trying to fix the centuries old problems or engage in an endless war.
I've been reading replies from Rand Paul suppporters on social media and hearing it on talk radio yesterday by numerous callers so I see you've got the same talking points because they are saying almsot verbatim what you just said above. It's all fortune cookie bumpersticker crap.
This isn't about intervention...endless war or centires old conflicts. They've been critical in the fight against ISIS and now we're just gonna say "see ya you're on your own".
This is simply about do we or do we not abandon an ally.
How are we ever going to get anyone to trust us if we continue to do that to people that have bled and died along side us on the field of battle. How is it soild stratigic foreign policy to cut and run whenever we feel like it or it's not politically expedient for us to be engaged?
It's not.
I will because your radical Libertarian isolationist pablum is dangerous to our country.
I must admit... I am conflicted about this issue. While I do want our guys brought home (nobody ever said they were supposed to stay in Syria forever).... I can see the critical issue of ISIS prisoners being allowed to be set free (by Turkish factions) as a deal breaker. Why the hell can't the US arrange a prisoner transfer to Gitmo? That would solve the main problem with pulling out. Am I missing something?
And you notice he was out there doing another victory lap yesterday too.
The last time we listened to Isolationists was in the 1930's. Looked how well it worked out. The problem with the Libertarian Isolationists is that the following:
1. They think the oceans will protect us from dangers. Nope not anymore.. We where close to being bombed by the Germans in WWII (Yes the Nazi's was almost came close to developing an America bomber).
2. Fortress America is better. Nope. Not gonna work.
Because under the Kurds', they may end up being released if or when Turkish factions attack the Kurds. I thought that point was already made upthread. :shrug:
There is a significant difference between a 'libertarian isolationist' and those who refuse to risk American lives except in pursuit of America's immediate interests.
No one here is saying we shouldn't involve ourselves in other ways in service of our general interests or where there's a clear moral imperative.
Personally I'm tired of the globalists leading Americans around by the nose.
There is a significant difference between a 'libertarian isolationist' and those who refuse to risk American lives except in pursuit of America's immediate interests.
No one here is saying we shouldn't involve ourselves in other ways in service of our general interests or where there's a clear moral imperative.
Personally I'm tired of the globalists leading Americans around by the nose.
This makes sense.
Now, one can dispute this, that's fine.
I think there is the possibility of the Kurds/others cutting a deal with Assad and RUSSIA because they have no other options. I think Assad probably is more responsible than anyone else for all the trouble there, probably overwhelmingly so.
<a href="https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister"> Charles Lister [/url] probably believes so.
So, this isn't a good option and as of now, our troops are not in real danger there...
A lesson for all, we were there last December, Trump called for this "withdrawal", within days, a cafe was suicide bombed or bombed, we lost at least 2 soldiers and a translator who was American. The terrorists really did this it looks like, in response to Trump's announcement. That's probably why this time, in part, the announcement was done differently.
I don't want to have to be buying these guys Fruitloops until some rat judge orders them released here under the US asylum policy. Why not let the Kurds deal with them old school. It'd be good therapy for em.
The last time we listened to Isolationists was in the 1930's. Looked how well it worked out. The problem with the Libertarian Isolationists is that the following:
1. They think the oceans will protect us from dangers. Nope not anymore.. We where close to being bombed by the Germans in WWII (Yes the Nazi's was almost came close to developing an America bomber).
2. Fortress America is better. Nope. Not gonna work.
But, keeping up with this, I believe there are actually 5,000 such prisoners, that's just male prisoners. The logistics are not there.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-suspects-in-overcrowded-syria-prison-tell-cbs-news-theyre-american-sdf-says-needs-help-2019-09-17/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-suspects-in-overcrowded-syria-prison-tell-cbs-news-theyre-american-sdf-says-needs-help-2019-09-17/)
To me, that's way to many to put in Gitmo or even other arrangements. The Kurds/SDF have said, previously, when it didn't appear we were going to cut bait and run, that they would hold them and let them do their time for justice.
BTW, that we are withdrawing and things like that, I consider that to be far from calling this a fact. In a way, it seems no, we are not. A bit of confusion on this issue.
Because the Kurds are about to be blasted to oblivion in that region and won't be able to do that because Trump retreated and left them open to attack from Turkey.
(https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/file/getimagecustom/1115f7e2-ed69-4242-ae87-6a58ca6afc6e/850/479)
Top Senate Republican warns 'precipitous' Syria pullout benefits Russia, Iran
The New Arab & agencies
The top Republican in Congress warned that an abrupt pullback of US troops from Turkey's border with Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran and President Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.
The top Republican in Congress warned Monday that an abrupt pullback of US troops from Turkey's border with Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran and President Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell became the most senior lawmaker in Donald Trump's party to oppose the president's announced decision to withdraw from certain positions in northern Syria, one that effectively abandons the Kurds, one of Washington's main allies in the war against Islamic State group militants.
Read more at: https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/8/top-republican-warns-precipitous-syria-pullout-benefits-russia-iran (https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/8/top-republican-warns-precipitous-syria-pullout-benefits-russia-iran)
But it's the KURDS!! 9999hair out0000
Kurds now organizing civilian defense. Is there any help for them?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp)
@Chosen Daughter
Not from us. And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.
Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back? It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.
Wonder why that is?
@Chosen Daughter
Not from us. And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.
Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back? It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.
Wonder why that is?
Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?
Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?
Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?
And, what was our mission in Syria?
I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience. Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.
Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.
I don't think that's accurate.
The American-led intervention in the Syrian Civil War refers to the United States-led support of Syrian opposition and the Federation of Northern Syria during the course of the Syrian Civil War and active military involvement led by the United States and its allies — the militaries of the United Kingdom, France, Jordan, Turkey, Canada, Australia and more — against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and al-Nusra Front since 2014. Since early 2017, the U.S. and other Coalition partners have also targeted the Syrian government and its allies via airstrikes and aircraft shoot-downs.
It is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
During the Syrian Civil War, which began in 2011, the U.S. initially supplied the rebels of the Free Syrian Army with non-lethal aid—including food rations and pickup trucks—but quickly began providing training, money, and intelligence to selected Syrian rebel commanders. At least two U.S. programs attempted to assist the Syrian rebels. One was a 2014 Pentagon program that planned to train and equip 15,000 rebels to fight ISIL, which was canceled in 2015 after spending $500 million and producing only a few dozen fighters.[135] A simultaneous $1 billion covert program called Timber Sycamore ran by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was more successful, but was decimated by Russian bombing and canceled in mid-2017 by the Trump administration.[135]
From that article:
I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience. Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.
Obama's bungling foreign policy has us sending weapons and munitions to what they thought were rebel fighters...that turned out to be the Taliban.
Everything the Obama administration touched turned to shit over there and was one disaster after another.
Up until Rand Paul became Trump's BFF...the situation had gotten turned around and headed in the righ direction. Remember when everyone was rah-rahing the military strikes Trump was odering over there? I do.
Same people now who are cheering his retreat and abandonment of the Kurds.
Like with the previous adminstration...we're about to snatch defeat from the jaws of an albeit small victory in that region. And people are happy about it.
...he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.
It’s worth noting that the US had 2,000 troops in Syria back in December and then Trump had the Pentagon cut that force in half in March. That’s definitely scaling back US involvement, but it’s still a far cry from ending any US role in the Middle East — and, again, it’s not what’s happening this week.
A senior administration official told reporters Monday that Sunday’s announcement did not constitute a full U.S. withdrawal from Syria and that only 50 to 100 U.S. special operations forces were moving to other locations in Syria.
The official explained that Trump’s decision to move the special operators out of the zone of a potential Turkish operation was done to protect troops and keep them out of the crossfire.
Those troops are moving to more secure areas over the next several days, the official said.
“The Department of Defense made clear to Turkey — as did the president — that we do not endorse a Turkish operation in Northern Syria," Jonathan Hoffman, the chief Pentagon spokesman said. “The U.S. armed forces will not support, or be involved in any such operation.â€
I understand your point of view, and I disagree with it. The best approximation of a mission over there was to fight ISIS and help the Syrian rebels. Both have been done*. Time to get out.
* I understand that ISIS is not 100% defeated, nor will it ever be.
...he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.
Look...just so we're clear...I'm not a warmonger...not anywhere clsoe to it...the last people that want war is a soldier.
That being said...and like I've said before this goes beyond all of the endless war...world police crap taht's getting spewed out there. This is about honor and a code and keeping our word.
We gave our word to the Kurds we'd have their back and they had ours fighting the good fight against terrorism. And for us to pull back out of the blue isn't honorable and it makes us look like liars.
If we can't give someone our word and stand by it...what good are we as a nation?
And, as you know, I'm no peacenik. If we gave our word to defend the Syrian Kurds from now on out, we shouldn't have. It's not our fight.
If not us then who? If not now...when?
That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support. We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.
Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes. That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.
Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets. 50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet. They are a "force multiplier". Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.
So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.
@ExFreeper first off...the soldiers were told to pull back...THEN the invasion started. Turkey hadn't made a move in several years in that area. They only did it becasue Trump retreated.
Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets. 50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet. They are a "force multiplier". Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.
So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.
Our retreat paved the way for what Turkey is about to do to the Kurds.
Relocating 50 Green Berets is not retreat! We are not an invading country and we should not be in Syria except limited ops killing ISIS! Internal conflicts between clans that have been going on for 3000 years should not be our concern.
It is my understanding that Turkey wants a 30 mile buffer along the Syrian border for defending against PKK attacks. Seems reasonable.
I have done my time in the alert hangars at Incirlik and I don't like nor trust the Turks, however in this case the Turks have the right to protect their people against terrorist attacks.
Our CIC has to make the tough decisions and those Green Berets will follow their orders. I would guess that we got something from the Turks in return for the "retreat".
I would also assume the Kurds probably have the means and funding for acquiring shoulder-fired weapons against any Turk air incursion be it a helicopter or fixed wing outside of this buffer zone.
That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support. We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.
Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes. That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.
@txradioguy
It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners. Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.
When you compare us to Russia or China we are very discriminatory who we help. The if we weren't then every third world sh*t hold country would be filled with M-16's and LAWS rockets instead of AK-47's and RPG-7 launchers.
Who exactly do you deem to be a privisional ally? Would England or Germany fall into that category?
And you do realize that some of these so called "provisional" allies allow us ease of access into places we might ahve to force our way into otherwise?
They provide intel and human intelligence assets that we woudn't otherwise have? This is why you don't abandon them when it's politically expedient.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Who is making that comparison?
Yes, of course there should be some benefit to an alliance. Since we're talking about Syria, they fall into the provisional category.
You were saying we should be more discriminatory in who we help. I say that we are...unlike other influential countries in the world like China and Russia who interfere anywhere and everywhere they can in the world through arms sales and other types of direct suport in unstable regions of the world.
Syria isn't an ally....never have been never will be. Th Kurds are an ally.
No. The Syrian Kurds are NOT our ally. They are a communist group of bad guys with whom we worked for a time to accomplish a specific purpose.
“The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone,†said the longtime member of Special Forces. “It’s a shame. We are just watching. It’s horrible.â€
“This is not helping the ISIS fight," the military source said.
They are an ethnic group spread across several countries in Western Asia.
There's no such thing as "Syrian Kurds"
Don't split hairs. They are Kurds in Syria, and that particular group of Kurds are not good guys.
Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally. I'm being factually and historically accurate.
There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.
Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.
Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.
EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.
Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.
Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.
Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.
Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.
Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.
EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.
Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.
Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.
Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.
You don't know that they do.
â€Now, the Kurds are fighting for their land, just so you understand, they are fighting for their land. And as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example, they mentioned the names of different battles, but they’re there to help us with their land, and that’s a different thing. In addition to that, we have spent tremendous amounts of money in helping the Kurds,†Trump continued. “With all of that being said, we like the Kurds.â€
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html)
Here you go, Tom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party
Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally. I'm being factually and historically accurate.
There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.
Oh? Might wanna think about that answer...just sayin.
I did. And, I'm staying with it.
Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.
You know these "freedom fighters" are trying to establish an independent state within Turkey. What would we call the charmers who'd try this with the United States? :pondering:
A separate communist state.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a bit fuzzy on the facts, but don’t the Kurds have a history of ethnic cleansing against the Christians in Iraq, Syria and Turkey? I believe this is an underreported aspect of the Kurdish community.
@txradioguy
It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners. Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.
Well Trumps not worried. He says they are going to go to Europe. Another totally asinine thing to say.
Well Trumps not worried. He says they are going to go to Europe. Another totally asinine thing to say.
The Independent
Trump not worried about Isis fighters fleeing Syria because ‘they’re going to be escaping to Europe’
The IndependentOctober 9, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC
Donald Trump has suggested he is not concerned some Isis fighters could escape in the chaos of a Turkish attack on Syria because “they’re going to be escaping to Europeâ€.
The US president abruptly removed 50 US troops out of northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack America's Kurdish allies unimpeded.
The withdrawal prompted fears that some of the thousands of Isis fighters held by Kurdish-led forces might escape in the aftermath of the Turkish incursion.
Asked if he was concerned about some of the Isis fighters escaping and posing a threat elsewhere, Mr Trump said: “Well they’re going to be escaping to Europe.
“That’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes.â€
https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/trump-not-worried-isis-fighters-222439834.html
We made a deal and we should stick with it...
....The predominantly Christian unit is a small but symbolically important part of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which have encircled ISIS and are slowly closing in.
The Syriac officers point out that those who’ve joined their ranks — including Muslims, both Arabs and Kurds, foreigners, and other Christians — are a symbol of the Syria for which they are fighting: a federated Syria, an alternative to Baathism and Islamism. “For the first time in our history, we are fighting for each other,†says one Syriac commander.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/syrian-war-syriac-military-council-christians-muslims-arabs-kurds-federated-syria-versus-baathism-islamism-isis/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/syrian-war-syriac-military-council-christians-muslims-arabs-kurds-federated-syria-versus-baathism-islamism-isis/)
Yeah, is that worse than having a point of view like yours that might have ISIS still operating full-force? I don't think so.
What deal did we make and with whom @TomSea?
Thanks.
As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.
Shah of Iran
Egypt
South Vietnam
North Korea
Afghan villages and leaders
Iraqi villages and leaders
Numerous South American countries and groups
and on and on
America has a history of jumping in on one side or the other of a conflict all the way up to the point that they get tired of it and then pull out. Leaving all of their allies at the mercy of whatever enemy fills the void. It has happened over and over and over again.
Since WWII, America has only fought to stalemate. America never fights to a decisive victory. That is why we currently have what is being called "endless wars" (predicted by Orwell, btw). It is fine for America to pick some arbitrary point to say, 'That's all. We're done. We are going home.' But that leaves anyone who joined with us or supported us holding the bag. And they are frequently executed.
I would never act as a foreign spy for America. As a foreign group, I would never depend on America for anything. I would accept whatever help may be offered, but not to the point of dependency. America is way too fickle for me to bet my life on them.
You yourself pointed out that there's a report a Turkish bomb hit a prison where ISIS prisoners are being kept.
There has been one attempted jailbreak already and some of the guards at the prisons are leaving their posts.
Tell me again exactly who's viewpoint is going to have ISIS back operating at full force?
I guess yours, with your point of view too, if you didn't vote for Trump, the Caliphate would have continued. It was losing ground by the end of Obama's term, this is so but it might have taken longer, victories were so-so.
Why? Would you rather ISIS still be in full power?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces
YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.
Whole books are written on it, 2015, the SDF was formed. One can read up on it for themselves.
(http://kurdishquestion.com/visual/article/800x550/47c95479c3226d4a018b83ea60221fd0.jpg)
Three YPG internationalist volunteers killed in Raqqa battle against Islamic State
Three internationalist volunteers of the People's Defense (Protection) Unit (YPG) have been killed in clashes with the jihadist Islamic State (ISIS) group in Raqqa, northern Syria.
Briton Luke Rutter (Soro Zinar), 22, and Americans Robert Grodt (Demhat Goldman), 28, and Nicholas Alan Warden (Rodi Deysie), 29, lost their lives in battles on 5-6 July.
The YPG released a statement sending condolences to the families of the men and said they had "fought bravely against Daesh [ISIS] fascism and terrorism."
...
List of International Volunteers killed in action in Rojava-Democratic Federation of Northern Syria
1. Ashley Johnston 23 Feb 2015 AUS
2. Kosta Scurfield 2 Mar 2015 UK/GR
3. Ivana Hoffman 7 March 2015 GER
4. Mihemed Kerim 5 May 2015 IRAN
5. Keith Broomfield 3 Jun 2015 USA
6. Arnavut Karker. 26 June 2015 AL
7. Reece Harding 27 June 2015 AUS
8. Kevin Jochim 6 Jul 2015. GER
9. John Gallagher 4 Nov 2015 CAN
10. Gunter Hellstern 23 Feb 2016 GER
11. Mario Nunes 3 May 2016 POR
12. Jamie Bright 25 May 2016 AUS
13. Levi Jonathan Shirley 14 July 2016 USA
14. Dean Carl Evans 21 July 2016 UK
15. Martin Gruden 27 July 2016 SLO
16. Firaz Kardo 3 August 2016 SWE/EGYPT
17. Jordan MacTaggart 3 August 2016 USA
18. William Savage 10 Aug 2016 USA
19. Michael Israel 24 Nov 2016 USA
20. Anton Leschek 24 Nov 2016 GER.
21. Ryan Lock 21 Dec 2016 UK
22. Nazzareno Tassone 21 Dec 2016 CAN
23. Paolo Todd 15 January 2017 USA
24. Albert A Harrington 25 January 2017 USA
25. Merdali Süleymanov 23 April 2017 KAZ
26. Robert Grodt 5 July 2017 USA
27. Nicolas A Warden 5 July 2017 USA
28. Luke Rutter 5 July 2017 UK
http://kurdishquestion.com/article/3964-three-ypg-internationalist-volunteers-killed-in-raqqa-battle-against-islamic-state (http://kurdishquestion.com/article/3964-three-ypg-internationalist-volunteers-killed-in-raqqa-battle-against-islamic-state)
I don't understand your reply @TomSea You referenced an agreement we made. I'll ask again ... what is the agreement and with whom?
Thanks.
Foundation
The establishment of the SDF was announced on 11 October 2015 during a press conference in al-Hasakah.[120] The alliance built on longstanding previous cooperation between the founding partners. While the People's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Gel, YPG) and the Women's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Jin, YPJ) had been operating throughout the regions of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, the other founding partners were more geographically focused.
Geographically focused on the Euphrates Region were the YPG's partners in the Euphrates Volcano joint operations room, several mainstream Syrian rebel factions of the Free Syrian Army, who had helped defend the Kurdish town of Kobanî during the Siege of Kobanî. Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa was also in Euphrates Volcano, and it was expelled by the al-Nusra Front and ISIL from the city of Raqqa for being allied with the YPG since April 2014. The group participated in the capture of Tell Abyad from the Islamic State.
Geographically focused on the Jazira Region were the Assyrian Syriac Military Council (Mawtbo Fulhoyo Suryoyo, MFS) and the al-Sanadid Forces of the Arab Shammar tribe, both of whom had cooperated with the YPG in fighting ISIL since 2013.[121] The MFS is further politically aligned with the YPG via their shared secular ideology of democratic confederalism, which in the Assyrian community is known as the Dawronoye movement.[122]
Geographically focused on the Manbij Region was the Army of Revolutionaries (Jaysh al-Thuwar, JAT), itself an alliance of several groups of diverse ethnic and political backgrounds, who had in common that they had been rejected by the mainstream Syrian opposition for secular, anti-Islamist views and affiliations. However, most of the JAT component groups have always used the Free Syrian Army label and continue to use it.
Signatory groups
The following groups signed the founding document:[120]
People's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Gel, YPG)
Women's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Jin, YPJ)
Al-Sanadid Forces
Syriac Military Council (Mawtbo Fulhoyo Suryoyo, MFS)
Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa
Euphrates Volcano
Army of Revolutionaries (Jaysh al-Thuwar, JAT)
99th Infantry Brigade
Brigade Groups of al-Jazira
On 10 December 2015, after a two-day conference, The Syrian Democratic Council was established as a political platform of the SDF. Human rights activist Haytham Manna was co-chairman at its founding.[123] The Assembly that established the Syrian Democratic Council was made up of 13 members from specific ethnic, economic and political backgrounds.
Syrian Arab Coalition
The Syrian Arab Coalition is claimed by the U.S. government as an alliance of programmatically exclusively ethnic Arab militias established during the Syrian Civil War. In this narrative, it consists of exclusively ethnic Arab component groups of the SDF alliance,[124][125] such as the al-Sanadid Forces, the Deir ez-Zor Military Council, Arab units within the Army of Revolutionaries, along with smaller factions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces#Signatory_groups
Those Senators have said it, Trump is dropping the ball now
Glad to help out!
As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.
Who is this "alliance" against @TomSea And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?@Right_in_Virginia
US takes custody of two high-profile Islamic State fighters
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/takes-custody-high-profile-islamic-state-fighters-191010014412701.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/takes-custody-high-profile-islamic-state-fighters-191010014412701.html)
With Tump in power, if I were Taiwan, I'd be shaking in my shoes.
YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.
Report
NATO, the UN, and the Use of Force
Ivo H. Daalder
Monday, March 1, 1999
PRÉCIS
The debate surrounding NATO’s evolution from a collective defense alliance to an organization primarily concerned with managing crises centers around three questions:
1. Under what circumstances should NATO threaten use of force? The traditional criterion—self-defense against armed attack on any member’s home territory (Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty)—is too narrow. There is no doubt that NATO could embark on missions using force, if its members so desired, to confront crises or threats that do not directly affect allied territory but that may have implications for important national or humanitarian interests, (e.g., confronting arms proliferation or genocide)—though to what extent remains disputed within the alliance. The possibility for joint military action in a non-Article 5 context should not be conditioned on unanimous consent. An alliance that provides rapid and effective responses to crises in and outside allied territory, even if action is taken by a subset of allies, is preferable to one that conditions action on potentially unattainable unanimous support.
Read more at: https://www.brookings.edu/research/nato-the-un-and-the-use-of-force/ (https://www.brookings.edu/research/nato-the-un-and-the-use-of-force/)
They are and they do. The previous DNI, in this administration even said so, on pg 21 of his 2018 Worldwide Threat Assessment report.
The Kurdish People’s Protection Unit—the Syrian militia of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK)—probably will seek some form of autonomy but will face resistance from Russia, Iran, and Turkey.
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf (https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf)
And again, with your view, ISIS might not have ever been knocked off its perch.
So where does this leave us?
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.@DB
The only way to stop this sh!t is to kill every Moslem out there.There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. That's about 50,000 per day for 100 years. I'm busy for the next 100 years. You'd best get started.
Yeah, but isolationist seems so much sexier, don’t you think? Rhetorical question. :cool:Midwest isolationist 333cleo heck yeah!
SMH. Good grief, people. Get a grip. Those "troops" pulling out consists of 25 people! 25! Our mid-East meddling has cost taxpayers $8 TRILLION dollars, countless LIVES and countless WOUNDED WARRIORS!
Not all KURDS are good people. Actually it's a small group that are. The rest are just as bad as the people they are fighting. Wake up. The only people wanting us to continue are profitting from the war machine, either directly or in bribes.
*****rollingeyes*****@txradioguy
@Right_in_Virginia
"Who is this "alliance" against"
That's pretty easy, ISIS. Are you new to this argument?
"And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?"
No, it doesn't overwrite it.
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. That's about 50,000 per day for 100 years. I'm busy for the next 100 years. You'd best get started.
Give me the nuclear football and I will.Before I do that can you tell me if there will be any collateral damage to non-muslims?
Before I do that can you tell me if there will be any collateral damage to non-muslims?
I'm just kidding. You seem like a very stable genius. happy77 Your brand new nuclear football is on the way. Expect 4-6 weeks for packing and shipping.
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.
The border is still being invaded. He signed laws that further entrenched that situation.
Obamacare is still the law of the land.
Extreme deficit spending is as bad as it has ever been.
1st and 2nd (and other) amendment freedoms are slipping away.
Very true. There is no denying any of what you have stated. Yes, back pedaling has absolutely been the norm for Trump. Sad.@libertybele
@libertybele
Just heard this morning, 100 Kurds killed so far.
@txradioguy
Are you saying you think it's worth 8 TRILLION dollars and everyone who was killed or wounded in war, for those 25 people???
I'm just kidding.
I have enjoyed your informative posts through this thread. I learned more than I ever wanted to about Kurds.
Shout out to @TomSea who also added a lot to this discussion. :cheers:
Sad indeed. I've also read that the Kurds are holding their positions by the ISIS prisoners. **nononono*
On a positive, I heard on Beck yesterday that they still have an ongoing operation (The Nazarene) to rescue Christians over in the ME to keep them from being persecuted and/or murdered.
I'm wondering....if they were truly our FRiends and allies with a history, why haven't the ISIS prisoners been executed?
These are the animals that raped and butchered Yazidi girls and burned/drowned them in wooden cages.
Hat tip to the Kurds for using them as human shields. Not letting a crisis go to waste.
And the idiot is saying he doesn't care if ISIS escapes because they are going to escape to Europe. Mr. President we live in a Global world
@Chosen Daughter interesting turn of phrase by Trump considering the fact that Erdogan threatened the EU today with a flood of Turkish "immigrants" if they don't stop calling what he's doing an invasion.
This is a military super grab by Turkey, Iran and Russia. Their flood of immigrants will be extremist Muslims too. What Europe has enough of. I can't imagine what Trump was trying to accomplish with this. He was always trotting out the ISIS 100% gone. Which was never the case, but now wishing them on Europe. And if they are going to their previous homes expect Minnesota to be infested too!
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing is Russia, Syria and Iran.Add in North Korea and that's all our best allies...now.
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.
OK, thanks, I hate these endless wars too but I also hate abandoning the Kurds.
Thankfully 7 thousand miles away. Being that far away did not stop 9/11. His plan is to stop housing ISIS at Guantanamo also. He is handing this all over to extremist Turkey. Say goodbye to Christianity in the Middle East also.
We have ceased to be anything good in the world.
Oh really? So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever. The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.
Is it fair to say that any progress that the U.S. made over in the ME in the past decade has now been setback?
He's worse than a failure. He's turned his back on the Kurds who have gave countless lives to help us fight Islamic extremist.
@Chosen Daughter
What's keeping YOU and your family from suiting up and going there to join with the Christian forces and pick up a rifle to join the fight? How many of your family members are infantrymen serving in the Muddle East?
Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds,
who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror?
Thats the problem - we haven't made any progress anywhere in the ME.
Only the illusion of progress and even then only because we've interposed US bodies and treasure between the ages-old combatants.
No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS.
WE haven't made any progress because we have been treating symptoms rather than the disease @skeeter! The disease is the Mullahs in control of the Iranian government!
And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.Indeed. Who is up for that?
We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.
@Chosen Daughter
Not our zoo,not our monkeys.
There is nothing keeping YOU from going there and picking up a rifle,though.
@jpsb
WRONG! WE were THEIR ally. THEY were NOT helping us. WE were helping THEM to fight a war they have been fighting since before any of their current fighters were even born.
And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.
We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.
And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.
We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.
The House of Saud and the Wahabbis were largely under control until Jimmiuh CAAAATA foolishly allowed the Mullahs to take control of the Iranian government @skeeter and until they no longer are in control of that government no real progress is possible.
And BTW: WE do not need to launch a war with Iran to get rid of those B@stards! All we need do is to back the right people internally in Iran and they will take care of that for us.
Benjamin Netanyahu
@netanyahu
· 3h
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies.
Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen any time soon.
I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for OUR national government to do ANYTHING that is actually in the best interests of the great majority of people in this country @txradioguy. They will, however, do EVERYTHING possible to preserve the swamp that is Washington exactly as it is for as long as they can.
Okay. So your "alliance" defines an alliance of convenience ... one to fight ISIS. And when this fight is done, so are we.
Period.
Thanks for clarifying @TomSea
Both Obama and Trump rejected that option, and in May 2017, Trump decided to directly arm the YPG to ensure that it could take Raqqa from ISIS.
American diplomats were able to manage the resulting tensions with Turkey thanks to the U.S. military’s presence in Syria.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2019-04-16/hard-truths-syria (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2019-04-16/hard-truths-syria)
There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.
That’s true, but a collective effort by the other members to marginalize them would probably make them leave, on their own, similar to what France did in the 60s. Problem is, the leader of the strongest NATO member says the organization is or isn’t obsolete, on any given day. Good luck forming a coalition.
And for those on here that say we should expel Turkey from NATO if we don't like what they are doing...well I've been doing some research on that.
There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.
Hate to ruin a talking point...but that's the facts.
[No name calling. --Mod1]
But hey...anything to justify Trumps retreat right?
And BTW: WE do not need to launch a war with Iran to get rid of those B@stards! All we need do is to back the right people internally in Iran and they will take care of that for us.
At least someone is showing leadership and stepping up to help the Kurds.
So, are you saying Nancy Pelosi can just do it? :laugh:
Based on what I know,
@txradioguy
ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?
What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?
Based on what I know, count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East. These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries. The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes. Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power. But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.
It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit. :pondering:
Wag the dog/puss?
Based on what I know, count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East. These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries. The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes. Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power. But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.
Wladimir
@vvanwilgenburg
·
4h
Christian fighter of @SyriacMFS
is not surprised two Christians were the first to be killed in the Turkish attack in the Al-Beshayriyyeh neighborhood in Al-Qamishli city Wednesday. "This is what Erdogan wants. Especially the Christians are his first target."
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGhQ7yOXoAEhdSp?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/vvanwilgenburg/status/1182283899013079042
https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1182304234991243264
Dan Crenshaw @DanCrenshawTX
The great irony of the “no more endless wars†camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.
Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.
9:37 AM · Oct 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
@Jazzhead, you and I are in agreement here.
The word "conservative" has been destroyed. Its been replaced with the populist blow of the wind.
Dan Crenshaw is a man who has walked the walk as well as talking the talk and should be listened to @Once-Ler.@Bigun
@Chosen Daughter
What's keeping YOU and your family from suiting up and going there to join with the Christian forces and pick up a rifle to join the fight? How many of your family members are infantrymen serving in the Muddle East?
@catfish1957
No,WE have been THEIR ally for close to 20 years,helping them fight a fight they were already fighting by providing them with training,weapons,food,clothing,and cash.
In return,they provided us with nothing at all. They were already fighting when we first went there.
I just hope we don't start importing the Kurds into America like we did the Somalians and others.
Reports are coming in that 100,000 are now displaced. Christians are being prosecuted and murdered. Those that were rescued previously and returned to their homes are now fleeing again.
This is no different than when Bammy pulled troops out allowing ISIS to form a caliphate. Anyone forget the videos of ISIS beheadings?
I predict we now will be fighting ISIS on our own turf. IF our southern border was under control and we had a handle on knowing who is coming across it would be one thing, but they don't. That is reality.
We will become another Europe -- refugees will no doubt be coming here and along with them those that want to destroy the U.S.
@jpsb
WRONG! WE were THEIR ally. THEY were NOT helping us. WE were helping THEM to fight a war they have been fighting since before any of their current fighters were even born.
I know how horrible. Some of them might be Christian. Certainly not all. If your king Trump didn't want people to seek asylum from the ethnic cleansing Turkey is doing he shouldn't have arranged for it.
@txradioguy
ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?
What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?
@Chosen Daughter
You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.
It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit. :pondering:
@Chosen Daughter
You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.
Trump wasn't worried about ISIS fighters escaping or being released. He said they are going to go home to Europe. What about these ISIS from America? Are they coming home?
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611 (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611)
@Chosen Daughter
You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.
No, it's much worse. She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.
No they are not. That is a flat out blatant falsehood. Not sure where exactly you come up with some of this bullshit...but that’s one of the biggest whoppers you’ve told in quite awhile.
It’s like you just can’t help yourself.
You need to stop.
Don't see you suiting up or picking up a rifle...practice what you preach.
No, it's much worse. She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.
I can remember every single time that @Right_in_Virginia trotted out how Trump defeated ISIS.
@txradioguy
I'm not the one calling for US troops to go to war to defend the Kurds. YOU and others are the ones doing this,so why don't YOU go there and pick up a rifle and save them?
BTW,I DID pick up a rifle and go to war as an infantryman when called. In fact,I was a career weapons man in the US Army. You?
@txradioguy
I'm not the one calling for US troops to go to war to defend the Kurds. YOU and others are the ones doing this,so why don't YOU go there and pick up a rifle and save them?
BTW,I DID pick up a rifle and go to war as an infantryman when called. In fact,I was a career weapons man in the US Army. You?
@Sanguine
Yes,I know. Those types are always the most enthusiastic about sending troops off to war.
I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.
No, it's much worse. She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.
You served when exactly?
Don't even try that crap on me.
How pompous of you. My name isn't Trump and I don't send anyone to fight anywhere. But I can't think of a more worthy cause than this. You can disagree and its your right to. But you don't talk for all military families. Sorry.
And another thing. Your fake. Never heard you say one word about Trump doing anything wrong. Has Trump done the exact opposite and ordered more troops to support the Kurds you would be for it. You and all the Trump bots.
You served when exactly?
Her husband gave his life for this country @txradioguy. PLEASE don't go there!
I initially posted on this thread when my passion was in control and now that I have had time to reflect on the matter my position is somewhat different.
For personal reasons that I am not allowed to share with you, my heart is with @txradioguy And @jpsb but my head tells me that the president made the right call here and I'm very glad that I'm not the one who had to make it.
The fact is that this country has signed, ratified treaties with Turkey and none with my Kurdish friends who have no actual country of their own. It sucks but it's still a fact.
And what exactly has Turkey done to honor those contracts? They can be revoked as easily as they were agreed upon.
That needs to start happening yesterday.
Didn't know that. And @Sanguine I'm truly sorry for your loss.
However...@Bigun that doesn't give her a free pass on that completely bullsh*t stuff she said to @Chosen Daughter.
Losing a loved one in combat doesn't give someone some kind of moral high ground to say sh*tty things to others and not get called on it.
Don't bother. And, go back and read what I actually said. And, then put me on ignore. I don't want to hear from you again.
Sorry you feel that way. Not gonna put you on ignore even if I could.
IIRC you can't put Forum Mods on ignore.
Yes, you can.
I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.
I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.
Sorry you feel that way. Not gonna put you on ignore even if I could.
IIRC you can't put Forum Mods on ignore.
Straying a bit from the topic, but I served 8+ years in Air Defense Artillery. Both my dad and stepdad served in WWII. I have two sons aged 30 and 17, and neither have any desire to join the military. The closest I've gotten to a recommendation is to consider the Coast Guard or the Texas National Guard. Events since 2009 have led me to distrust the chain of command, starting with the Commander in Chief. I'm not real impressed with the perfumed princes (and princesses) at the Pentagon either.
My sons have heard my stories about commanders that were true leaders and great men, and those that through their actions I considered REMFs. I don't talk about my service much, shoot it's been nearly 35 years since I left active duty.
We've had a volunteer force since 1975 (give or take), and 3 Presidents that avoided military service, one a certifiable draft dodger. Each one of those 3 Presidents never truly understood the sacrifices and sense of duty that every honorable service member has made since the founding of our Country. IOW, they never "got it".
Given the sorry state of our government and its institutions, I simply cannot recommend military service to my children, nieces, and nephews. I've been asked, and I try to give them the positives and negatives, so they can make an informed decision.
Accordingly, I think it's silly for posters here to call out others for not serving, or suggesting they should send their sons and daughters into harms way in a quagmire thousands of miles away.
I enlisted in 69, today's military is more lethal, but I detest woman in combat MOSs and the repeal of "don't ask don't tell". Openly gay
in the military is not a good idea. And women in the infantry is another very bad idea. Women on submarines is a horrible idea. I
wonder how our PC military will do if (G*d forbid) we face a real world power like China.
???
Are you in the right forum, @Chosen Daughter ?
@Sanguine was NEVER an avid Trump Supporter. In fact, she and I squared off more than once..More than a few times.
No, it's much worse. She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.
Do you have any proof to back up that (nasty) ad hominem?
Good grief, you don't need to ask me, go read what she said.
@Chosen Daughter
If they are...it's all the more reason to make sure your powder is dry and a weapon is close at hand at all times.
With all those pouring over our southern borders in unprecedented amounts, I believe ISIS is already here and have formed various different pockets within different cities and are just waiting for the right time to strike.
I enlisted in 69, today's military is more lethal, but I detest woman in combat MOSs and the repeal of "don't ask don't tell". Openly gay
in the military is not a good idea. And women in the infantry is another very bad idea. Women on submarines is a horrible idea. I
wonder how our PC military will do if (G*d forbid) we face a real world power like China.
Good grief, you don't need to ask me, go read what she said.
Muslims have been caught in the large groups of illegals coming across the border.
And now we have illegals from Africa showing up on the Southern border as well trying to get in. Certain parts of Africa are hotbeds for Muslim terrorism as well.
I have lost someone to Iraq but I am not going to give details. You are the last person I would confide in. I don't use those who served this country for political forum conversation. Shame on you.
I've heard that President Trump is abandoning the Kurds, and that he knew of and approved the Turkish invasion that targeted the Kurds.
Later, I've heard that he is not abandoning the Kurds and is sending them more arms.
I am not sure what the truth is anymore.
@Chosen Daughter
If they are...it's all the more reason to make sure your powder is dry and a weapon is close at hand at all times.
I think the truth is he has sustained very harsh criticism and the story is ever changing. I think he did approve of the invasion.
Yes, you do use those who served this country for political forum conversation. You just did pointing-up
This is what happens when you elect a man without a core...... **nononono*
OMG … the drama that goes on here is LOL funny. :silly:
Good grief, look what you posted first:
In response to this post:
@Chosen Daughter
You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.
You responded:
No, it's much worse. She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.
First of all I would like to say sorry for your loss. Perhaps you could appreciate that many of us have lost loved ones in the war on terror. I didn't realize your loss and can understand your emotions. But you cannot speak for everyone else. Nor can you dictate that people do not have a right to an opinion because they do not personally serve in the military. If that was a fact we wouldn't have this forum. For that matter we could be severely critical of electing officials who have not serves either. They shouldn't have an opinion as far as you are concerned.
If there are any fingers to be pointed, they should be directed at Congress. They have given up their responsibilities under the Constitution, allowing Presidents for decades to unilaterally put our service members in harms way.
About 15% of Congress are veterans. Quick searches indicate that less than 2 children of current congressman are serving in the military today. Whether it's zero, one, two, or up to 10, nothing more needs to be said.
As I stated before, it's an all volunteer force, but that doesn't give Congress a pass for its irresponsible governance.
This is what happens when you elect a man without a core...... **nononono*:amen:
This has been one of the best and most informative threads I have ever read on this site. I appreciate everyone's insight (@txradioguy and others) and took lots of notes and did lots of research.
But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.
This has been one of the best and most informative threads I have ever read on this site. I appreciate everyone's insight (@txradioguy and others) and took lots of notes and did lots of research.Well, as I see it, without making moral judgements of either group we have treaty obligations (NATO) with the Turks.
But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.
Removing the Special Forces Troops from the area may keep us from being in direct conflict with Turkish forces, with whom we have a treaty (NATO Obligations), but it abandons the guys we've fought alongside to beat back ISIS.
There is no good answer which allows us to both maintain our obligation to the people we have shed blood with and keep us out of conflict with an ally we have treaty obligations with.
The only solution which would do both is to convince the Turks to back off and not invade and kill the Kurds (and risk releasing the ISIS prisoners).
Thank you for your reply. It is more or less what I believe....there is no good answer.
Muslims have been caught in the large groups of illegals coming across the border.
And now we have illegals from Africa showing up on the Southern border as well trying to get in. Certain parts of Africa are hotbeds for Muslim terrorism as well.
You like heavy drama what are you talking about. Trumps speech in Minnesota was dripping with it.
But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.
"The greatest mistake our country has made is going into the quicksand of the Middle East." -- DJT, Oct 10, 2019
The only good answer is bigheadfred with the nuclear football going up the middle (east).(https://images.dailycaller.com/image/width=1280,height=549,fit=cover,f=auto/https://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/smod-2016-e1473368230994.jpg)
Erdogan is trying to go full muzzie jihad. Trump is pulling back to let him. THEN see how much of a use Turkey is to NATO.
INTERNECINE. Look it up.
Understand it.
WE don't have a dog in this fight.
Put your money on Assad or Erdogan?
FFS
My dear, sweet innocent ... last night's speech wasn't drama; it was truth.
That was Drama alright. If this isn't acting I don't know what is. Don't say it isn't.
The President really gets deep under your skin -- and then does a tap dance.
This pleases me. 88devil
The President really gets deep under your skin -- and then does a tap dance.
This pleases me. 88devil
And to think we have 13 more months of this before the Election. :2popcorn:
Glad I can be helpful. LOL!
You never disappoint. happy77
(https://images.dailycaller.com/image/width=1280,height=549,fit=cover,f=auto/https://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/smod-2016-e1473368230994.jpg)
SMOD let me down in 2016 and this year I'm not sending money to Assad or Erdogan.
I looked up Nectarine and I'm with you for 2020 BHF
I looked up Nectarine
I'm not sending money to Assad or Erdogan
Neither do you. Its extremely amusing seeing someone so far up Trumps anus that they won't even take a fresh breath of air.
We'll have you know that Pres. Trump's sh*t doesn't stink...nothin' wrong with the air up there.
Neither do you. Its extremely amusing seeing someone so far up Trumps anus that they won't even take a fresh breath of air.
We'll have you know that Pres. Trump's sh*t doesn't stink...nothin' wrong with the air up there.Thanks for confirming what I already knew. I wasn't the only one that knew where she is hanging out.
Thanks for confirming what I already knew. I wasn't the only one that knew where she is hanging out.
Thanks for confirming what I already knew. I wasn't the only one that knew where she is hanging out.
Getting back on topic.... I'm glad that we've had a few days to analyze and weigh this decision...a decision that has opened a few wounds here.
It a complex riddle with no easy answer.
1) We have a signed, internationally recognized alliance treaty with Turkey. We have no such thing with the Kurds.
2) The Kurds are fighting for land. They've been fighting for their own land for over one hundred years.
3) While we were eradicating ISIS in Syria, we made an arrangement with the Syrian Kurds. This arrangement had an expiration date and was purposefully set up so as NOT to get us bogged down in another war.
4) Donald Trump campaigned on getting us out of global conflicts that don't actively pursue victory. No more "policing".
Personally, I think Turkey told us they were going to commence operations and as a courtesy suggested we remove our "50 men". They were ready to call our bluff, and POTUS Trump is smart enough not to destroy Turkish tanks with missiles.
Was only speaking for myself, @Chosen Daughter :laugh:
You live there too?
This is what "they" are saying ....
https://www.facebook.com/insah.akrin/videos/2497646223846276/ (https://www.facebook.com/insah.akrin/videos/2497646223846276/)
Such bitterness and disdain from someone chosen forces one to ponder just who made the choice. :pondering:
You are right and I deserve that. Thank you for pointing out that I also had my ugly on. I have been very worked up over this change in policy that puts Christians in danger. Still no reason to get ugly. Thank you.
in policy that puts Christians in danger.
Yeah. Step back. All ya? @Right_in_Virginia
WHAT is the threat?
You are killing each other... .
Either of ya Christian?
Killing me.
President Trump will be giving an award to a (Christian) person he rescued from Turkey in front of a audience of strong supporter of the
Kurds and Christians in Syria today. Should be interesting to see what he's got to say.
Trump appearing before evangelicals as Turkey policy imperils Kurd-protected Christians
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-appearing-before-evangelicals-as-turkey-policy-imperils-kurd-protected-christians (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-appearing-before-evangelicals-as-turkey-policy-imperils-kurd-protected-christians)
Hope he hears a little anger. The past week will not be forgotten.
Such bitterness and disdain from someone chosen forces one to ponder just who made the choice. :pondering:
@Right_in_Virginia
It has been my observation ever since I was a child that is is the most rabidly devout that have the most to worry about if their superstition ends up being factual. It might not be obvious enough you can see it,but there is plenty of it that is deeply hidden.
Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, said after Trump announced the withdrawal that he was “in great danger of losing the mandate of Heaven.â€
Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, asked people to pray for Trump to reconsider, saying “thousands of lives hang in the balance.â€
Trump won 81% of the vote from white evangelical Christians in the 2016 election, which came just weeks after a decade-old Access Hollywood video surfaced showing him bragging about kissing and grabbing women because “when you are a star, they let you do it.â€
Evangelicals have stuck with Trump since, through sex scandals like his alleged payments to hush up an affair with a porn star, and controversies like the investigation into Russian election meddling. In a Reuters/Ipsos poll from mid-September, 70% of white evangelicals approve of Trump’s job performance.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion/at-evangelical-conference-concerns-about-syria-but-cheers-for-trump-idUSKBN1WQ2QM (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion/at-evangelical-conference-concerns-about-syria-but-cheers-for-trump-idUSKBN1WQ2QM)
I wonder what is going to happen if ISIS returns to the region with ethnic cleansing as they did before our Military and the Kurds nearly completely contained them? The images will destroy the support that Trump has had with the Evangelical community. It is his own policy and callous disregard for human life that will destroy him. And destroy this country being that there is no Conservative running to take his place.
Perhaps Christians will hold their nose and vote for him. But these statements from Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham are an indication that what Trump has done here cannot be ignored.
I said it at the time and I’ll say it again..... the formerly known as ‘Evangelical ‘ Christians who said that Trump’s molestation and adultery shouldn’t keep Christians from voting for him , marked the end of the Evangelical/Political right.
When you give up everything you value for political power, you have destroyed yourselves.
Both these men should have known that Trump was not the answer to America’s moral problems when they started slobbering over him. Shame on them for allowing themselves to be fooled by a valueless charlatan.
Turkish airstrikes in Syria reportedly target journalist convoy, civilians; at least 9 dead
Frank Miles 1 hr ago
Fresh airstrikes from Turkey reportedly targeted civilians and a group of foreign reporters in the Syrian border town of Ras al-Ayn, according to monitoring groups and Syrian Kurdish officials.
The Syrian Observatory of Human Rights said the airstrike killed at least nine people - including five civilians on Sunday, while other reports claimed that a convoy with foreign journalists was also targeted, according to Haaretz.
France 24 reported that one journalist was also among the dead, while two French reporters were also injured in the attack. The nationality of the slain journalist was not immediately confirmed.
The airstrikes came hours after President Donald Trump ordered all U.S. troops to withdraw from the area to avoid getting caught in the middle of the fast-escalating conflict. The announcement represents a major shift in alliances for Syria's Kurds after they were abandoned by the U.S., with whom they were longtime partners in the fight against the Islamic State group.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-airstrikes-in-syria-reportedly-target-journalist-convoy-civilians-at-least-9-dead/ar-AAIIOoo?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-airstrikes-in-syria-reportedly-target-journalist-convoy-civilians-at-least-9-dead/ar-AAIIOoo?ocid=spartanntp)
'Journalist' convoy my ass. GTFO of there.
Discuss "human rights" violations afterwards...not while they're busy being human shields themselves.
You should have really thought more about that post before you hit send. Quit trying to constantly to White Knight for Trump and use your head for once.