The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: ABX on May 24, 2017, 06:08:42 pm
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Trumpsplain this please:
Donald Trump gave Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte a late-night ring in April to tell him what a bang-up job he’s doing with his war on drugs — which has taken more than 8,000 lives in just a year........
.....A complaint was filed against Duterte in April in International Criminal Court that accused him of being a “mass murderer” whose ordered extrajudicial killings of drug suspects constitute crimes against humanity.
https://news.vice.com/story/trump-told-duterte-great-job-on-drug-war-thats-killed-8000
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Ok....
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....instead #nevertrump Social Justice Warriors would have Trump offer Duterte to place the drug dealers into Obamacare-like rehabilitation at taxpayer expense?
....or maybe early releases from prison like Obama?
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....instead #nevertrump Social Justice Warriors would have Trump offer Duterte to place the drug dealers into Obamacare-like rehabilitation at taxpayer expense?
....or maybe early releases from prison like Obama?
Duterte drug war is immoral as hell. No due process of any kind. Just wholesale murder of the undesirables.
Trump could just keep his mouth shut on such things but no, he has to praise evil in action giving American approval of what is being done there.
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....instead #nevertrump Social Justice Warriors would have Trump offer Duterte to place the drug dealers into Obamacare-like rehabilitation at taxpayer expense?
....or maybe early releases from prison like Obama?
Cute deflection. Classic logic fallacy there, assume an extreme is the only alternative.
But let's look at the reality of what is happening under Duterte and tap that one back.
So you are OK with a massive police state, shoot to kill orders for any suspects, over 4000 civilians killed to only 2000 confirmed drug gang members, the use of landmines in neighborhoods, and hundreds of thousands taken from their homes without warrant for interrogation?
I guess that would be an authortarian dream state.
If you are fine with that, well OK then..
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Duterte drug war is immoral as hell. No due process of any kind. Just wholesale murder of the undesirables.
Trump could just keep his mouth shut on such things but no, he has to praise evil in action giving American approval of what is being done there.
Not just 'undesireables'. He is razing entire towns and his response to the people is basically 'well maybe you shouldn't live there'. He is as bad, if not worse, than the drug kingpins and gangs he is going against.
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Not just 'undesireables'. He is razing entire towns and his response to the people is basically 'well maybe you shouldn't live there'. He is as bad, if not worse, than the drug kingpins and gangs he is going against.
Yup when lawlessness is the response to lawlessness it will only lead to greater lawlessness.
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Trumpsplain this please:
Deliberate effrontery right off the bat, eh?
I will state for the record that I have *ALWAYS* wanted the United States to support beneficial dictators around the world, the first of which I was aware was the Shah of Iran.
(http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/shah-revolution/images/Mohammad%20Reza%20Pahlavi%20Shah%20of%20Iran%20Portrait.jpg)
Yes, I would love for the world to be all roses and sunshine where Democratic Republics of sane rational people were the only system of governance in the world, but I recognize the difference between a real world and a dream world.
Were I President, I would not start a pile of Sh*t with Duterte because we happen to now be in a position where we need the Philippines more than we have since World War II. (Help keep a coalition to check China) More importantly, we don't need the Philippines to go into China's orbit, which is the way things have been going since that incompetent Jackass that the media elected was in charge.
I guess my argument boils down to: Yes, killing drug dealers/users without due process and collateral killings are bad, but alienating the Philippines over something that we cannot stop or control is just stupid... and worse.
This is exactly how Carter F***ed up Iran.
This is a matter that should be left to the Philippine people, not short sighted moralizers over here.
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Not just 'undesireables'. He is razing entire towns and his response to the people is basically 'well maybe you shouldn't live there'. He is as bad, if not worse, than the drug kingpins and gangs he is going against.
Mao killed millions of drug dealers. He issued an amnesty, after which anyone caught with drugs would be killed. He then proceeded to kill everyone caught with drugs.
Solved his drug problem. It is probably the only way in which a drug problem will get solved. Our holding action which people mistakenly call "the war on drugs" certainly doesn't solve it.
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Deliberate effrontery right off the bat, eh?
I will state for the record that I have *ALWAYS* wanted the United States to support beneficial dictators around the world, the first of which I was aware was the Shah of Iran.
(http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/shah-revolution/images/Mohammad%20Reza%20Pahlavi%20Shah%20of%20Iran%20Portrait.jpg)
Yes, I would love for the world to be all roses and sunshine where Democratic Republics of sane rational people were the only system of governance in the world, but I recognize the difference between a real world and a dream world.
Were I President, I would not start a pile of Sh*t with Duterte because we happen to now be in a position where we need the Philippines more than we have since World War II. (Help keep a coalition to check China) More importantly, we don't need the Philippines to go into China's orbit, which is the way things have been going since that incompetent Jackass that the media elected was in charge.
I guess my argument boils down to: Yes, killing drug dealers/users without due process and collateral killings are bad, but alienating the Philippines over something that we cannot stop or control is just stupid... and worse.
This is exactly how Carter F***ed up Iran.
This is a matter that should be left to the Philippine people, not short sighted moralizers over here.
So if you oppose the 'moralizers' over here and support the people there dealing with it themselves, then I take it your oppose Trump's show of support?
After all, by supporting and praising Duterte's action, he is also 'moralizing' (except his is in far more of an offical manner than any of us peon citizens stating our opinion).
Interesting take you have there though...
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Mao killed millions of drug dealers. He issued an amnesty, after which anyone caught with drugs would be killed. He then proceeded to kill everyone caught with drugs.
Solved his drug problem. It is probably the only way in which a drug problem will get solved. Our holding action which people mistakenly call "the war on drugs" certainly doesn't solve it.
Wow.. holding up Mao as a positive example of how to do things.
...yep, double checked, I didn't stumble into DU. Can't believe I'm reading that here.
I need to screenshot that for posterity.
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Mao killed millions of drug dealers. He issued an amnesty, after which anyone caught with drugs would be killed. He then proceeded to kill everyone caught with drugs.
Solved his drug problem. It is probably the only way in which a drug problem will get solved. Our holding action which people mistakenly call "the war on drugs" certainly doesn't solve it.
Mao's solutions worked really well for the Chinese people... Millions dead and those who remained were slaves...
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Mao's solutions worked really well for the Chinese people... Millions dead and those who remained were slaves...
But they got a perfect police state that it seems many desire these days.
I still can't believe I read that comment on here. I had to do a triple take.
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....instead #nevertrump Social Justice Warriors would have Trump offer Duterte to place the drug dealers into Obamacare-like rehabilitation at taxpayer expense?
....or maybe early releases from prison like Obama?
I happen to be quite fond of the Constitution... Especially the Due Process and innocent until proven guilty parts..
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Mao killed millions of drug dealers. He issued an amnesty, after which anyone caught with drugs would be killed. He then proceeded to kill everyone caught with drugs.
Solved his drug problem. It is probably the only way in which a drug problem will get solved. Our holding action which people mistakenly call "the war on drugs" certainly doesn't solve it.
So I take it you don't think the Constitution is a suicide pact....
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I happen to be quite fond of the Constitution... Especially the Due Process and innocent until proven guilty parts..
Those are now impediments to the court system now.
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Those are now impediments to the court system now.
I don't think so....
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I don't think so....
From the point of view of the court system, they are.
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So if you oppose the 'moralizers' over here and support the people there dealing with it themselves, then I take it your oppose Trump's show of support?
I do not understand your question.
After all, by supporting and praising Duterte's action, he is also 'moralizing' (except his is in far more of an offical manner than any of us peon citizens stating our opinion).
Schmoozing. That is actually his job under these circumstances.
Interesting take you have there though...
The World would be a better place if Jimmy Carter had not focused on the Shah's human rights abuses. Abuses which I have now come to believe are absolutely necessary when you are the head of state in a Muslim nation.
The structure of the Muslim religion does not allow the leader to be a wienie. A weak man will not long be a leader in the Muslim social structure.
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Human rights only concern humans. Something moslems are not.
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Wow.. holding up Mao as a positive example of how to do things.
Positive example? More like a recognition that his methodology accomplished it's intent. I do not have to approve to recognize effectiveness.
I have a friend that likes to tell about the Russian method of interrogating people in World War II. They would put the person's hand on a table and smash a finger with a hammer. No answers? Another finger smashed with a hammer. (and I don't' mean a little boo-boo. I mean a bone crushing pulverization.)
They always talked. The Russians always verified the information and it was always accurate... eventually. False information got more smashed fingers, and then they went to work on the toes.
Does this work? Yes it works. It may be a very singularly effective method. It is likely superior to anything we have ever done.
Do I want us to do this? No. But that does not prevent me from recognizing that it is a very effective method of accomplishing it's purpose.
...yep, double checked, I didn't stumble into DU. Can't believe I'm reading that here.
I need to screenshot that for posterity.
And now you are ad homining me by implying that i'm "the other"?
I thought you were the one that didn't like logical fallacies?
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Mao's solutions worked really well for the Chinese people... Millions dead and those who remained were slaves...
Mao's "solutions" were abominations. Mao was a nut.
But he did eradicate China's drug problem.
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So I take it you don't think the Constitution is a suicide pact....
I take it that the Philippines doesn't have our constitution nor our societal support for it.
You are only going to get certain ideals to grow in the proper soil, and it remains to be seen if the Philippines is proper soil for the ideas in which we Americans believe.
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What do I call 8000?
A solid start.
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Just to put it into perspective, more Americans died last year from opioid overdose than were killed during the entire Vietnam War.
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I happen to be quite fond of the Constitution... Especially the Due Process and innocent until proven guilty parts..
Never doubt that many of the people we once called conservatives and friends would now happily stand aside as we were shot in the head and buried in ditches. They probably won't have the guts to do it themselves but they will be quick to seek justification in the name of the law.
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Vice mag; the Never Trumpers, so-called Conservatives, have to resort to quoting out of context to rationalize their role, even if inadvertent, of the murder of the unborn. Vice is probably extreme left too, I don't know.
Oh, let's just give Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and all to the Russians and Chinese. That's leadership for you.
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to rationalize their role, even if inadvertent, of the murder of the unborn
You have a dead-fetus fetish. It's sick.
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Once we go down this road, supporting populist dictators like Duterte, the US is bound to end up in a dictatorship.
This makes me nauseous. I wonder if Trump is just careless, stupid, or genuinely thinks the way Duterte is handling things is good policy?
Because if the latter is true, we are in trouble as a country, and Trump supporters are as big of a threat to liberty as any Democrat (if true).
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Once we go down this road, supporting populist dictators like Duterte, the US is bound to end up in a dictatorship.
That is a non sequitur. The US has been supporting dictators for a long time. We may be heading for a dictatorship, but it doesn't have much to do with our support for foreign dictators, it has to do with our modern day establishment gaining sufficient power to stop hiding their intentions. The Ivy League socialists have long been about ruling the country. If something isn't done, one of these days they will make it official.
This makes me nauseous. I wonder if Trump is just careless, stupid, or genuinely thinks the way Duterte is handling things is good policy?
Good policy is not pissing off the President of the Philippines right now.
Because if the latter is true, we are in trouble as a country, and Trump supporters are as big of a threat to liberty as any Democrat (if true).
Here is more of that effort to "otherize" us. Yes, people who supported Trump are the new evil in your eyes, because the possibility that you are completely wrong in your assessment as to the best direction the country should have gone, is beyond your ability to comprehend.
It's far easier to paint those with whom you disagree as "Monsters" than it is to face up to the fact that you could have been mistaken in your assessment, while the rest of us saw more clearly.
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Vice mag; the Never Trumpers, so-called Conservatives, have to resort to quoting out of context to rationalize their role, even if inadvertent, of the murder of the unborn. Vice is probably extreme left too, I don't know.
Oh, let's just give Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and all to the Russians and Chinese. That's leadership for you.
@TomSea
Now I'm no grammerian or even an egnlish major but that has got to be the most commas I've ever seen. I sometimes cringe when I see how badly stuff I've written is composed but you've made me feel good today. thank you
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It's far easier to paint those with whom you disagree as "Monsters" than it is to face up to the fact that you could have been mistaken in your assessment, while the rest of us saw more clearly.
@DiogenesLamp
Like Trump, Duterte is the product of a deeply unhappy electorate. The PI has significant problems with Islamic terrorists, drugs and crime. Problems that make the south side of Chicago look like a great place to spend a weekend.