The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Fishrrman on November 14, 2015, 05:35:45 pm
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http://news.yahoo.com/trump-surges-among-likely-republican-primary-voters-reuters-213521679.html
Trump surges among likely Republican primary voters: Reuters/Ipsos poll
By James Oliphant
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - After a week in which he hosted Saturday Night Live and stood center-stage at a Republican debate, Donald Trump is surging among Republicans likely to cast votes in the party’s presidential primary.
According to the five-day rolling Reuters/Ipsos presidential poll, Trump has leapt some 17 percentage points among likely Republican voters since Nov. 6, when he was essentially tied with Ben Carson at about 25 percent. Trump now captures 42 percent of those voters while Carson has fallen off slightly.
Among all Republicans - not simply likely primary voters -Trump holds a substantial edge over Carson, at 34 percent to about 20 percent, according to the Reuters/Ipsos poll.
Trump’s appearance on NBC's Saturday Night Live earned the program its highest ratings in two years, with 9.3 million viewers tuning in. Then, on Tuesday, 13.5 million viewers watched the debate from Milwaukee broadcast on the Fox Business Network.
It remains to be seen, however, whether Trump’s surge will hold in the wake of his comments at an Iowa rally Thursday night in which he tore into Carson, telling the crowd that Carson has a "pathological" temper.
"If you’re pathological, there’s no cure for that,” Trump said. "If you’re a child molester, there’s no cure for that.”
Trump then posted a video critical of Carson on his Instagram account Friday.
The Republican establishment has long expected the outspoken billionaire to fade, and he has yet to give it the satisfaction. Trump has consistently held more than 25 percent of the support among all Republicans in the Reuters/Ipsos rolling poll for more than two months.
The Reuters/Ipsos poll is also bad news for Marco Rubio, who is widely considered to be emerging as the establishment-backed alternative to Trump. Despite receiving rave notices for his past two debate performance, Rubio’s support has remained flat, with about 10 percent of likely Republican primary voters preferring him.
Those primary voters remain very down on former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush. Just four percent say they would support Bush in the latest poll.
The results of the five-day rolling Reuters/Ipsos poll was based on a sample of 534 Republicans with a credibility interval of 5 percent. The pool of likely Republican primary voters was based on sample of 257 voters with a credibility interval of 7 percent.
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That is only with R voters. The Independents need to register for the Pubbie party to vote in their primary. Trump is running 3 rd party and the RINOS will support Hillary but that is ok. When the crossover vote of Dems, Blacks, legal immigrants and independents he will get 60+ % in the general. The primary is the battle and the independents need to register for the PUBBIE party. He will make America great again and the only onw that can. See a TRUMP / Cruz ticket forming and CRUZ taking Rubio out of the picture on immigration :patriot:
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That is only with R voters. The Independents need to register for the Pubbie party to vote in their primary. Trump is running 3 rd party and the RINOS will support Hillary but that is ok. When the crossover vote of Dems, Blacks, legal immigrants and independents he will get 60+ % in the general. The primary is the battle and the independents need to register for the PUBBIE party. He will make America great again and the only onw that can.
:bigsilly:
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:bigsilly:
Vote Hillary and be happy!
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Vote Hillary and be happy!
You'd like that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately for you, the only people here who'll vote for Hillary or Sanders will be the so-called "conservatives" should reason prevail and Trump not be nominated.
I am a team player - unlike way too many so-called "conservatives" - and I understand that you don't always get your way and that you must still pull together even though you're disappointed. I will - as I have said repeatedly on many, many threads - vote for Trump if he is the nominee.
Now, will you vote for Fiorina if she's the nominee?
No, I didn't think you would. You'd prefer to vote for Hillary or Sanders, and make no mistake, sitting on your hands and refusing to vote simply because Trump didn't get nominated is the same thing as voting for Hillary or Sanders.
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You'd like that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately for you, the only people here who'll vote for Hillary or Sanders will be the so-called "conservatives" should reason prevail and Trump not be nominated.
I am a team player - unlike way too many so-called "conservatives" - and I understand that you don't always get your way and that you must still pull together even though you're disappointed. I will - as I have said repeatedly on many, many threads - vote for Trump if he is the nominee.
Now, will you vote for Fiorina if she's the nominee?
No, I didn't think you would. You'd prefer to vote for Hillary or Sanders, and make no mistake, sitting on your hands and refusing to vote simply because Trump didn't get nominated is the same thing as voting for Hillary or Sanders.
Yep! Absolutely!
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Yep! Absolutely!
Not sure if that's positive or negative.
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:bigsilly:
Trump just finished a rally in Texas. I actually watched it (online). Here's what I noticed: He truly connects with the people. When he speaks he's not lecturing, he's not preaching--he's talking, he's explaining and he's relating. These are strengths few politicians have, and they are essential to success.
The connection Trump has with the thousands and thousands who hear him is becoming a bond. And IMO if Trump makes it to the general election, that bond will hold and he will win.
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I agree. At this point, Trump is the guy to beat. And he is getting stronger, not weaker, month by month.
There may be many on this board, and in the GOPe who will not vote for President in this election. I think it will make no difference.
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That is only with R voters. The Independents need to register for the Pubbie party to vote in their primary. Trump is running 3 rd party and the RINOS will support Hillary but that is ok. When the crossover vote of Dems, Blacks, legal immigrants and independents he will get 60+ % in the general. The primary is the battle and the independents need to register for the PUBBIE party. He will make America great again and the only onw that can. See a TRUMP / Cruz ticket forming and CRUZ taking Rubio out of the picture on immigration :patriot:
If Trump is the nominee, you will see a massacre of Goldwater proportions against him. Blacks will NOT vote for him, nor will most independents. Forget Democrats.
He is a despicable human being and does not deserve a minute's consideration for the highest office in the land.
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Trump just finished a rally in Texas. I actually watched it (online). Here's what I noticed: He truly connects with the people. When he speaks he's not lecturing, he's not preaching--he's talking, he's explaining and he's relating. These are strengths few politicians have, and they are essential to success.
The connection Trump has with the thousands and thousands who hear him is becoming a bond. And IMO if Trump makes it to the general election, that bond will hold and he will win.
When Trump speaks, he's usually tearing down somebody else, calling his opponents lazy or sleepy or child molesters. Trump explains nothing because, other than immigration, Trump has little in the way of policies.
He's riding a wave of a fear of "them" (illegals) and he'll include Muslims in that now. It's Obama-like tactics and if it works with Republicans, we'll lose the Senate and House seats as well.
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When Trump speaks, he's usually tearing down somebody else, calling his opponents lazy or sleepy or child molesters. Trump explains nothing because, other than immigration, Trump has little in the way of policies.
Nope. Not today. Didn't give but a passing glance to others in the race. And, yes, he does explain. And he does it quite well. I know I'm asking a lot --- but try to listen to more than sound bites from him. (Just a suggestion---please be gentle in your response. ^-^ )
He's riding a wave of a fear of "them" (illegals) and he'll include Muslims in that now. It's Obama-like tactics and if it works with Republicans, we'll lose the Senate and House seats as well.
Actually, immigration is a small part of his rally speeches. Does it get a lot of applause? Yes. But he also gets very enthusiastic applause when he speaks of jobs, the economy, healthcare, the military, and national defense. :shrug:
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Trump has been leading the polls for over 130 days now. The only other GOP candidates to have done so have gone on to win the nomination (Dole, McCain). So at this point, it appears the nomination is Trump's.
The only way that's gonna change is if someone rises in the polls to knock him out of the lead. Which of Trump's competitors has that potential?
None that I see.
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When Trump speaks, he's usually tearing down somebody else, calling his opponents lazy or sleepy or child molesters. Trump explains nothing because, other than immigration, Trump has little in the way of policies.
He's riding a wave of a fear of "them" (illegals) and he'll include Muslims in that now. It's Obama-like tactics and if it works with Republicans, we'll lose the Senate and House seats as well.
Completely agree. He's riding a populist wave and will try to take advantage of that now.
He's not a serious candidate. Never has been. Never will be.
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Trump has been leading the polls for over 130 days now. The only other GOP candidates to have done so have gone on to win the nomination (Dole, McCain). So at this point, it appears the nomination is Trump's.
The only way that's gonna change is if someone rises in the polls to knock him out of the lead. Which of Trump's competitors has that potential?
None that I see.
Cruz, Rubio and Carson.
And all of them are better people, and more conservative than Trump.
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Nope. Not today. Didn't give but a passing glance to others in the race. And, yes, he does explain. And he does it quite well. I know I'm asking a lot --- but try to listen to more than sound bites from him. (Just a suggestion---please be gentle in your response. ^-^ )
Actually, immigration is a small part of his rally speeches. Does it get a lot of applause? Yes. But he also gets very enthusiastic applause when he speaks of jobs, the economy, healthcare, the military, and national defense. :shrug:
Don't worry. He'll be back at their throats soon enough. Maybe his staff told him he sounded like the town drunk with his 95 minute tantrum in Iowa Thursday and his outrageous statements.
NOTHING he says will ever be enacted. He has no support in Congress, and he needs Congress to get anything passed. He will not get any tax increases, he will not get his silly immigration plan to first base, and I can't imagine any serious foreign policy people working for such a volatile, temperamental person.
I will never support him. Ever. And some on here will continue to support him, no matter what he does or says. So, there it is.
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Completely agree. He's riding a populist wave and will try to take advantage of that now.
He's not a serious candidate. Never has been. Never will be.
He is a serious candidate. He's been thinking of running for at least 15 years. He's written three political books among his two dozen other books. He's been leading since the day he announced. Sounds serious to me.
If you'll allow me, I think what you meant to say is that you will never take his candidacy seriously. And that is your right.
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Trump has been leading the polls for over 130 days now. The only other GOP candidates to have done so have gone on to win the nomination (Dole, McCain). So at this point, it appears the nomination is Trump's.
The only way that's gonna change is if someone rises in the polls to knock him out of the lead. Which of Trump's competitors has that potential?
None that I see.
Rubio has the potential, and he's gaining in the early primary states, which are the only ones that matter. National polls are meaningless in primaries, especially if the leader of those polls loses Iowa, NH, and SC.
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Cruz, Rubio and Carson.
And all of them are better people, and more conservative than Trump.
But, can they knock Trump off his pirch? Only Rubio has the potential to do that. But in the final analysis will he?
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He is a serious candidate. He's been thinking of running for at least 15 years. He's written three political books among his two dozen other books. He's been leading since the day he announced. Sounds serious to me.
If you'll allow me, I think what you meant to say is that you will never take his candidacy seriously. And that is your right.
Trump is not a serious candidate because he's not a serious person. He has changed parties more than he's changed wives (and that's a lot) and his flippant criticism of his opposition reveals a very nasty mean streak that over half the population of the US finds very off-putting.
Trump has no interest in politics. He's just run out of stuff to do, so, like Ross Perot (another billionaire) decides he wants to cut his electoral teeth on the highest office in the land. Other than Eisenhower, who won a World War, Trump has no accomplishments, other than driving four of his businesses into bankruptcy and gloating over kicking old women out of their homes through eminent domain.
But he talks tough, and apparently that's all his shallow supporters care about: that he can talk.
Sound like the guy we elected seven years ago? He could talk to and we found out that's about all he can do. Trump is exactly the same because he has no interest in getting his hands dirty in the political process. Trump is accustomed to telling other people what to do. That won't work in Washington, no matter how much he blusters and bloviates.
If comparing your nearest opponent to a child molester means you go higher in polls, then I want nothing to do with the Republican Party or those in it who support this cretin.
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You'd like that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately for you, the only people here who'll vote for Hillary or Sanders will be the so-called "conservatives" should reason prevail and Trump not be nominated.
I am a team player - unlike way too many so-called "conservatives" - and I understand that you don't always get your way and that you must still pull together even though you're disappointed. I will - as I have said repeatedly on many, many threads - vote for Trump if he is the nominee.
Now, will you vote for Fiorina if she's the nominee?
No, I didn't think you would. You'd prefer to vote for Hillary or Sanders, and make no mistake, sitting on your hands and refusing to vote simply because Trump didn't get nominated is the same thing as voting for Hillary or Sanders.
Having a bad meds day? Carly the nominee? Oh boy a Mittens, Dole, McCain, Karr Rove team player. Yep that worked out. Just as good as Hillary and Rubio will work out? Now go vote for Hillary or Rubio and when your neighborhood gets attacked you can still blame TRUMP for that or Cruz. Team player with no team! :thud:
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He is a serious candidate. He's been thinking of running for at least 15 years. He's written three political books among his two dozen other books. He's been leading since the day he announced. Sounds serious to me.
If you'll allow me, I think what you meant to say is that you will never take his candidacy seriously. And that is your right.
Why doesn't it matter to you that as recently as a few years ago he was an avowed Progressive Democrat who voted for Obama?
It doesn't matter if he was writing political books if he was on the wrong side of the truth.
The support for Trump is based on anger, not reality. And as I said months ago, NO good decisions are the result of anger, or any other emotion. There has to be rational thought driving our decisions, and Trump just doesn't DO 'rational thought.'
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Why doesn't it matter to you that as recently as a few years ago he was an avowed Progressive Democrat who voted for Obama?
It doesn't matter if he was writing political books if he was on the wrong side of the truth.
The support for Trump is based on anger, not reality. And as I said months ago, NO good decisions are the result of anger, or any other emotion. There has to be rational thought driving our decisions, and Trump just doesn't DO 'rational thought.'
Exactly. A perfect way to put opposition to Trump.
Donald Trump is all emotion. You can tell that because he NEVER argues on the basis of policy. When he opposes someone, he attacks them personally through ad hominems: the way they look, the way they act, take some line the Jeb misspoke and try to brand him as hating women.
I never thought my fellow conservatives would get sucked in by a guy who appeals to the lowest level of consciousness, which is emotion. What would Trump do if Congress just said "No, you're not going deport 11 million people"? I'm afraid it wouldn't be pretty and his response would not rational.
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Exactly. A perfect way to put opposition to Trump.
Donald Trump is all emotion. You can tell that because he NEVER argues on the basis of policy. When he opposes someone, he attacks them personally through ad hominems: the way they look, the way they act, take some line the Jeb misspoke and try to brand him as hating women.
I never thought my fellow conservatives would get sucked in by a guy who appeals to the lowest level of consciousness, which is emotion. What would Trump do if Congress just said "No, you're not going deport 11 million people"? I'm afraid it wouldn't be pretty and his response would not rational.
Nor have I. This whole situation has me both bewildered and dismayed.
What I have always thought about conservatism no longer seems to be true. We are the thinking party. Democrats are the angry ones.
Until now......
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Democrats are the angry ones.
Until now......
Perfect quote. Perfect summation.
You're damn we're angry. That is exactly right.
The status-quo is over.
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Perfect quote. Perfect summation.
You're damn we're angry. That is exactly right.
The status-quo is over.
I'm going to repeat what I have said before....
NO good decision is ever based on anger. Anger can be a motivator to think and make a good decision, but if the decision is made simply based on emotion, it is ALWAYS a bad one.
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Trump has been leading the polls for over 130 days now. The only other GOP candidates to have done so have gone on to win the nomination (Dole, McCain). So at this point, it appears the nomination is Trump's.
The only way that's gonna change is if someone rises in the polls to knock him out of the lead. Which of Trump's competitors has that potential?
None that I see.
If you pick only favorable polls you can get that 130 day number, and that is what Trump does when he says he's leading in all the polls at his stump speeches. But trump does not lead on many polls, and you know that and so does he. Real Clear politics clearly shows which polls he leads, and which polls he doesn't. And perhaps more telling, it shows a polls of each GOP candidate vs. Hillary if the general was held today.
Trump vs. Clinton Clinton 56, Trump 41 Clinton +15
Carson vs. Clinton Carson 48, Clinton 50 Clinton +2
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Perfect quote. Perfect summation.
You're damn we're angry. That is exactly right.
The status-quo is over.
Yeah. We're tired of drinking sewer water, so we'll start drinking nuclear waste instead.
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I hate to say this but the time is fast approaching that if the GOP wants to defeat Trump in the primary most of the candidates are going to have to get out and coalesce behind one challenger.
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I hate to say this but the time is fast approaching that if the GOP wants to defeat Trump in the primary most of the candidates are going to have to get out and coalesce behind one challenger.
You're exactly right about that. Unfortunately, Santorum and Huckabee and Graham and Jindal and Paul won't do that. They somehow think there's lurking support out there for them beyond what every poll has said.
It would be harder, but Fiorina and Christie and Kasich and Jeb have to get out too if there's any chance to beat Trump. My choice would be Rubio, but if it had to be Cruz, I'd hold my nose and do it.
We simply can't go into a general election with Donald Trump at the head of our ticket.
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You're exactly right about that. Unfortunately, Santorum and Huckabee and Graham and Jindal and Paul won't do that. They somehow think there's lurking support out there for them beyond what every poll has said.
It would be harder, but Fiorina and Christie and Kasich and Jeb have to get out too if there's any chance to beat Trump. My choice would be Rubio, but if it had to be Cruz, I'd hold my nose and do it.
We simply can't go into a general election with Donald Trump at the head of our ticket.
What if it had to be Carson? He appears to have the best chance against Hitlery, plus he is second behind Trump at this point.
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You're exactly right about that. Unfortunately, Santorum and Huckabee and Graham and Jindal and Paul won't do that. They somehow think there's lurking support out there for them beyond what every poll has said.
It would be harder, but Fiorina and Christie and Kasich and Jeb have to get out too if there's any chance to beat Trump. My choice would be Rubio, but if it had to be Cruz, I'd hold my nose and do it.
We simply can't go into a general election with Donald Trump at the head of our ticket.
I agree.
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What if it had to be Carson? He appears to have the best chance against Hitlery, plus he is second behind Trump at this point.
He's right above Trump in terms of lack of qualifications. But, if it meant getting rid of Trump, I'd support him and pray like hell.
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You're exactly right about that. Unfortunately, Santorum and Huckabee and Graham and Jindal and Paul won't do that. They somehow think there's lurking support out there for them beyond what every poll has said.
It would be harder, but Fiorina and Christie and Kasich and Jeb have to get out too if there's any chance to beat Trump. My choice would be Rubio, but if it had to be Cruz, I'd hold my nose and do it.
We simply can't go into a general election with Donald Trump at the head of our ticket.
Completely agree.
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If any of the other candidates were smart, they would remind voters of this from just a couple months ago.
Donald Trump says U.S. should 'possibly' accept (Syrian) refugees
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/04/politics/donald-trump-refugee-migrant-crisis-syria/
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Vote Hillary and be happy!
I remember a few weeks ago, when you admitted you would vote for a democrat. Are you now saying it again?
We need straight talk with each other here on this site, about such matters.
It helps to understand the character and seriousness of members.
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He's right above Trump in terms of lack of qualifications. But, if it meant getting rid of Trump, I'd support him and pray like hell.
Yeah, it does seem to have gotten personal with you regarding Donald Trump.
You were so confident that he'd destroyed himself by now...and we're 90 days out. And rather than admit you've been out of touch regarding Trump, you now anoint yourself an activist bent on taking his candidacy out.
And 'damnit, if that won't work, I ain't voting for the POS'
....and so on, and so on....... :whistle:
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I remember a few weeks ago, when you admitted you would vote for a democrat. Are you now saying it again?
We need straight talk with each other here on this site, about such matters.
It helps to understand the character and seriousness of members.
Thank you for saying that, truth_seeker.
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Yeah, it does seem to have gotten personal with you regarding Donald Trump.
You were so confident that he'd destroyed himself by now...and we're 90 days out. And rather than admit you've been out of touch regarding Trump, you now anoint yourself an activist bent on taking his candidacy out.
And 'damnit, if that won't work, I ain't voting for the POS'
....and so on, and so on....... :whistle:
I'm not out of touch with the country on Trump, just the starry-eyed GOP primary voters who are swayed by emotion. Every poll taken in the last three months (since your boy loves polls) shows Trump losing to Hillary.
So, yeah, I don't want a loser at the top of the ticket. And if that means we get rid of a foul-mouthed verbal assassin at the same time, that would be great.
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I hate to say this but the time is fast approaching that if the GOP wants to defeat Trump in the primary most of the candidates are going to have to get out and coalesce behind one challenger.
I have often heard professional commentators divide the GOP slate into segments, like
--Outsiders-Trump, Fiorina, Carson
--Establishment/economic-Bush, Kasich, Rubio, Trump, Christie
--Conservatives (libertarians)-Cruz, Paul
--Social conservatives-Santorum, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz
--National security-Rubio, Graham
That is an over simplification and I didn't list everybody--and I listed some twice like the commentators
When it inevitably narrows down, who is the consensus final 2, 3, or 4 around here?
Paris shows how quickly an unexpected occurrence can alter the playing field. Logic indicates that today, every one of these people would come out strong on national security.
I hereby declare I will vote for the nominee. Period. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong, and adjust my thinking.
If the consensus of my fellow Republicans/conservatives that they want to run with Donald Trump, I can adapt.
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I'm going to repeat what I have said before....
NO good decision is ever based on anger. Anger can be a motivator to think and make a good decision, but if the decision is made simply based on emotion, it is ALWAYS a bad one.
Counterpoint:
NO good decision is ever based on complacency and rote habit, especially if it ALWAYS fails. Only a fool keeps doing what they are doing if they can clearly see it doesn't work.
How did George Costanza put it? If everything I have ever done has been wrong, then the opposite must be right.
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Counterpoint:
NO good decision is ever based on complacency and rote habit, especially if it ALWAYS fails. Only a fool keeps doing what they are doing if they can clearly see it doesn't work.
How did George Costanza put it? If everything I have ever done has been wrong, then the opposite must be right.
There is no complacency involved in being opposed to Trump. In fact, it is my lack of complacency that makes me so strongly against having him in the Oval Office. I am sick to death of having a childish narcissist Democrat running the country, and it makes me sick to think that people are considering putting another one just because they're angry.
Use the anger to move us forward and make us strong. Don't succumb to the anger that makes you put another dictator-wannabe in the Oval Office.......just because he's claims to be on "our" side.
THINK!!
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There is no complacency involved in being opposed to Trump. In fact, it is my lack of complacency that makes me so strongly against having him in the Oval Office. I am sick to death of having a childish narcissist Democrat running the country, and it makes me sick to think that people are considering putting another one just because they're angry.
Use the anger to move us forward and make us strong. Don't succumb to the anger that makes you put another dictator-wannabe in the Oval Office.......just because he's claims to be on "our" side.
THINK!!
Exactly! Well said!
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Although I do not support Trump, I also do not think he would be a disaster in the general election. The "Low Info Voters" are pop culture obsessed, and Trump is a pop icon. Ultimately, they'll vote for the guy because they saw how good he was at getting things done on television, plus they'd rather see him on their TV screens for the next four years than Hillary.
I actually think Trump would with the floor with Hillary. But I still would prefer he was not the nominee. He has taken too many positions I disagree with.
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I don't understand the reaction.
Look, we put Dole up, and he lost.
We put McCain up, and he lost.
We put Romney up, and he lost.
If we put another Bush up, he will lose.
What is the problem? What is the difference?
If everyone is so sure Trump will lose, then why do they care? How is that any different from what has always happened?
If we run Trump and he loses, then it will be the same result as if we ran Romney or, McCain, or Jeb.
Since we lose every time anyway, then there is no risk in running Trump. We will just wind up where we would be anyway.
The fear from the Pubs is not that he will lose. This is a false argument.
What they fear, is that he would win. And Republicans are not used to, or prepared for actually winning an election. It scares them.
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I study all the candidates. Not that it matters much. I rarely back a winner in primary or general elections. With my luck, events frequently unfold without my approving of them. I suspect the same will happen this time. But, there's always that chance.
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What is the problem? What is the difference?
If everyone is so sure Trump will lose, then why do they care? How is that any different from what has always happened?
If we run Trump and he loses, then it will be the same result as if we ran Romney or, McCain, or Jeb.
Since we lose every time anyway, then there is no risk in running Trump. We will just wind up where we would be anyway.
The fear from the Pubs is not that he will lose. This is a false argument.
What they fear, is that he would win. And Republicans are not used to, or prepared for actually winning an election. It scares them.
It scares them that the guy in the Oval Office, while a registered Republican, would not be a 'Team' player.
You know a GOP-controlled Congress would keep him in check, so it's strange when the only complaint that cuts through all the bullshit is that he's tasteless and rude.
Well, BFD! I'll bet Vince Lombardi or George Patton were tasteless and rude too! But they were winners.
And like it or not, Trump is a winner. We should be glad he's on our side, and doesn't have political proclivities like Bernie Sanders.
....saw a Prius with a "Bernie in 16!" bumper sticker on it....driven by a twenty something Korean. Flipped him off real good, I tell ya!! :laugh:
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I don't understand the reaction.
Look, we put Dole up, and he lost.
We put McCain up, and he lost.
We put Romney up, and he lost.
If we put another Bush up, he will lose.
What is the problem? What is the difference?
If everyone is so sure Trump will lose, then why do they care? How is that any different from what has always happened?
If we run Trump and he loses, then it will be the same result as if we ran Romney or, McCain, or Jeb.
Since we lose every time anyway, then there is no risk in running Trump. We will just wind up where we would be anyway.
The fear from the Pubs is not that he will lose. This is a false argument.
What they fear, is that he would win. And Republicans are not used to, or prepared for actually winning an election. It scares them.
"Fear of winning"? That must be it.
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"Fear of winning"? That must be it.
Well, there certainly is no fear of losing.
That can be proven histrically, over and over again.
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I don't understand the reaction.
Look, we put Dole up, and he lost.
We put McCain up, and he lost.
We put Romney up, and he lost.
If we put another Bush up, he will lose.
What is the problem? What is the difference?
If everyone is so sure Trump will lose, then why do they care? How is that any different from what has always happened?
If we run Trump and he loses, then it will be the same result as if we ran Romney or, McCain, or Jeb.
Since we lose every time anyway, then there is no risk in running Trump. We will just wind up where we would be anyway.
The fear from the Pubs is not that he will lose. This is a false argument.
What they fear, is that he would win. And Republicans are not used to, or prepared for actually winning an election. It scares them.
Mmmm. The wonderful smell of tripe.
President Trump would be a disaster. Not as much of a disaster as a President Clinton, granted, but a disaster nonetheless, and would most likely make it impossible for the republicans to win the White House, or even control Congress, for another 20 years.
The man is a hater. He's a big-government liberal. He's a psychopath.
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Trump just finished a rally in Texas. I actually watched it (online). Here's what I noticed: He truly connects with the people. When he speaks he's not lecturing, he's not preaching--he's talking, he's explaining and he's relating. These are strengths few politicians have, and they are essential to success.
The connection Trump has with the thousands and thousands who hear him is becoming a bond. And IMO if Trump makes it to the general election, that bond will hold and he will win.
Sounds just like a certain junior senator from Illinois in 2008. Look where that got us. It also sounds like a short little dark-haired politician in Weimar Germany.
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I hereby declare I will vote for the nominee. Period. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong, and adjust my thinking.
If the consensus of my fellow Republicans/conservatives that they want to run with Donald Trump, I can adapt.
As will I.
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There is no complacency involved in being opposed to Trump. In fact, it is my lack of complacency that makes me so strongly against having him in the Oval Office. I am sick to death of having a childish narcissist Democrat running the country, and it makes me sick to think that people are considering putting another one just because they're angry.
Use the anger to move us forward and make us strong. Don't succumb to the anger that makes you put another dictator-wannabe in the Oval Office.......just because he's claims to be on "our" side.
THINK!!
Absolutely. Could not have said it better.
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Sounds just like a certain junior senator from Illinois in 2008. Look where that got us. It also sounds like a short little dark-haired politician in Weimar Germany.
There's a young African-American who works for Glenn Beck who was a teenage worker for Obama, and he attended a Trump rally and said that it was just like the Obama rallies he had been part of. Everyone was going crazy, but no one knew why they were supporting the guy.
It was entirely emotional.
I find this whole thing unnerving. There is no thought here. There is no reason. It's not healthy no matter which side it's coming from.
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There's a young African-American who works for Glenn Beck who was a teenage worker for Obama, and he attended a Trump rally and said that it was just like the Obama rallies he had been part of. Everyone was going crazy, but no one knew why they were supporting the guy.
It was entirely emotional.
I find this whole thing unnerving. There is no thought here. There is no reason. It's not healthy no matter which side it's coming from.
I saw the same interview with that young man on Beck's show. Frightening simularities. Seems the same people appauled by Obama's Greek Temple, arn't really looking for a humbled president from our side - a George Washington. No, they want our own rock star narcissist.
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Although I do not support Trump, I also do not think he would be a disaster in the general election. The "Low Info Voters" are pop culture obsessed, and Trump is a pop icon. Ultimately, they'll vote for the guy because they saw how good he was at getting things done on television, plus they'd rather see him on their TV screens for the next four years than Hillary.
I actually think Trump would (mop) the floor with Hillary. But I still would prefer he was not the nominee. He has taken too many positions I disagree with.
I think the GOP nominee will win, who ever that may be.
Your comments about LIVs being pop culture obsessed are insightful, and undoubtedly explain much of Trump's popularity.
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Your comments about LIVs being pop culture obsessed are insightful, and undoubtedly explain much of Trump's popularity.
"Much" but not all. There are bright, insightful conservatives I have known since the 1990s supporting the guy. Trump also seems to have get support from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and Jeff Sessions. These are not people i consider LIV material.
I just don't know what has come over the Trumpeteers.
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"Much" but not all. There are bright, insightful conservatives I have known since the 1990s supporting the guy. Trump also seems to have get support from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and Jeff Sessions. These are not people i consider LIV material.
I just don't know what has come over the Trumpeteers.
Some things about the "phenomenon" simply mystify me. His big bounce after the first debate, for example; from where did it come? :shrug:
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He continues to poll well, but I am not confident that if he were to win the nomination that he would be able to beat Hillary or Sanders in a debate UNLESS he can come across a little more "polished" and more articulate. His demeanor is more that of a "bully" rather than presidential. One thing I have observed about him is, rather than expounding on an issue to get his point across he simply repeats it. IMHO it makes him look less presidential and lacking in the ability to effectively communicate. But on the other hand, perhaps his repetition when speaking may be how he is getting his point across.
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Trump just finished a rally in Texas. I actually watched it (online). Here's what I noticed: He truly connects with the people. When he speaks he's not lecturing, he's not preaching--he's talking, he's explaining and he's relating. These are strengths few politicians have, and they are essential to success.
The connection Trump has with the thousands and thousands who hear him is becoming a bond. And IMO if Trump makes it to the general election, that bond will hold and he will win.
Right, VA you just po'ed real bad all the Trump haters big time on here by the post just made. Life is a bitch when you are right ? You are 100% spot on. :patriot:
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Right, VA you just po'ed real bad all the Trump haters big time on here by the post just made. Life is a bitch when you are right ? You are 100% spot on. :patriot:
I am not a supporter of Trump. But why in heaven's name would RiV's post piss me off? It is an opinion fairly expressed.
Yours is the provocative comment.
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Right, VA you just po'ed real bad all the Trump haters big time on here by the post just made. Life is a bitch when you are right ? You are 100% spot on. :patriot:
As I have stated before, I think that more voters will be focused on the elections after the holidays and after the first of the year. What happens at the Iowa caucus will be more indicative of how the candidates rank and I think voters will be looking at candidates a little more seriously. Also, the mud slinging from the MSM will be in full force and the attack ads against each other and against the other party will be bombarding us. The RNC/GOPe will be pushing Rubio and the DNC will be pushing Hillary. Things are about to get ugly. In order for Trump to survive, he will need to keep his "personality" in check otherwise I think he will destroy himself. If he runs 3rd party as a result, he will not only perhaps show his true colors, but surrender any chance of the GOP getting into the White House.
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"Much" but not all. There are bright, insightful conservatives I have known since the 1990s supporting the guy. Trump also seems to have get support from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and Jeff Sessions. These are not people i consider LIV material.
I just don't know what has come over the Trumpeteers.
Not a Trumpeteer...yet. But I can say this, I don't distrust Trump. His message has been consistently in line with my own philosophy. As has Cruz's.
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Not a Trumpeteer...yet. But I can say this, I don't distrust Trump. His message has been consistently in line with my own philosophy. As has Cruz's.
Trump's "message" is that he will personally attack his competitors and get down in the gutter to do that.
Is that your philosophy too?
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he GOPe talking heads want to claim that the Paris attacks will hurt Trump. Voters will now, supposedly, turn to an “experienced, serious” politician</p><P>
Actually Trump is probably going to benefit since voters see him as the candidate with the strongest leadership skills. He is saying what most voters are thinking. "Why are we dancing around here waging a PC war, just finish these people off now."</p><P>
ISIS is another example of the corrupt, incompetent nature of the DC Political/Media/Business machine. DC cannot even get its act together to exterminate terror group that carved a minor state-let in the ME.</p><P>
Most obvious examples of things we should be doing.</p><P>
How is ISIS still funding its activities? Pretty tough to keep a terrorist army together when you cannot buy guns, bullets and food for your soldiers. Why is any activity allowed between the terrorist areas and the rest of the world?</p>
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he GOPe talking heads want to claim that the Paris attacks will hurt Trump. Voters will now, supposedly, turn to an “experienced, serious” politician</p><P>
Actually Trump is probably going to benefit since voters see him as the candidate with the strongest leadership skills. He is saying what most voters are thinking. "Why are we dancing around here waging a PC war, just finish these people off now."</p><P>
ISIS is another example of the corrupt, incompetent nature of the DC Political/Media/Business machine. DC cannot even get its act together to exterminate terror group that carved a minor state-let in the ME.</p><P>
Most obvious examples of things we should be doing.</p><P>
I
How is ISIS still funding its activities? Pretty tough to keep a terrorist army together when you cannot buy guns, bullets and food for your soldiers. Why is any activity allowed between the terrorist areas and the rest of the world?</p>
Ditto but do not forget Barry and the RINOGOP will send him a strongly worded polite memo?
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I am not a supporter of Trump. But why in heaven's name would RiV's post piss me off? It is an opinion fairly expressed.
Yours is the provocative comment.
Your opine, but it is ok for the Trump haters on here as long as you agree with them! But do not call them out then you become provocative. Yes, !
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Rubio has the potential, and he's gaining in the early primary states, which are the only ones that matter. National polls are meaningless in primaries, especially if the leader of those polls loses Iowa, NH, and SC.
Rubio has serious image issues. You cannot run as a Tea Party Conservative, go to DC and become the consummate insider, then go back and run for President as an "outsider"
Rubio has been at odds with the base on too many issues. It going to be pretty tough to sell him to the GOP base as anything but more of the same.
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Rubio has serious image issues. You cannot run as a Tea Party Conservative, go to DC and become the consummate insider, then go back and run for President as an "outsider"
Rubio has been at odds with the base on too many issues. It going to be pretty tough to sell him to the GOP base as anything but more of the same.
Nah. He's gaining traction. Why would it be tough to sell him to the GOP base?
The GOP base is wetting itself over a big-mouthed Democrat. At least Rubio's been a Republican all his life.
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Nah. He's gaining traction. Why would it be tough to sell him to the GOP base?
The GOP base is wetting itself over a big-mouthed Democrat. At least Rubio's been a Republican all his life.
"You're a funny guy Sully, I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last"...John Matrix, Commando
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Rubio
Will the real Marco Rubio please stand up? Standard issue Business as usual insider or "Tea Party Conservtive"?
From Rubio bio
In late 1999, a special election was called to fill the seat for the 111th House District in the Florida House of Representatives, representing Miami. The seat had been held by Representative Carlos Valdes, who had run for and won an open Florida State Senate seat.[20] It was considered a safe Republican seat, so Rubio's main challenge was to win the GOP nomination.[18] He campaigned as a moderate, advocating tax cuts and early-childhood education.[18]
ccording to National Journal, during this period Rubio did not entirely adhere to doctrinaire conservative principles, and some colleagues described him as "a centrist who sought out Democrats and groups that don’t typically align with the GOP".[18] He co-sponsored legislation that would have let farm workers sue growers in state court if they were shortchanged on pay, and co-sponsored a bill for giving in-state tuition rates to the children of undocumented immigrants.[18] In the wake of the September 11 attacks, he voiced suspicion about expanding police detention powers, and helped defeat a GOP bill that would have required colleges to increase reporting to the state about foreign students.[18]
As a state representative, Rubio requested legislative earmarks (called "Community Budget Issue Requests" in Florida), totaling about $145 million for 2001 and 2002, but none thereafter.[31][32] Additionally, an office in the executive branch compiled a longer list of spending requests by legislators, including Rubio,[33] as did the non-profit group Florida TaxWatch.[34] Many of those listed items were for health and social programs that Rubio has described as "the kind of thing that legislators would get attacked on if we didn't fund them."[34] A 2010 report by the Tampa Bay Times/Miami Herald said that some of Rubio’s spending requests dovetailed with his personal interests.[33] For example, Rubio requested a $20 million appropriation for Jackson Memorial Hospital to subsidize care for the poor and uninsured,[34] and Rubio later did work for that hospital as a consultant.[33] A spokesman for Rubio has said that the items in question helped the whole county, that Rubio did not lobby to get them approved, that the hospital money was necessary and non-controversial, and that Rubio is "a limited-government conservative ... not a no-government conservative".[33]
House speaker
On September 13, 2005, at the age of 34,[35] Rubio clinched the speakership after State Representatives Dennis Baxley, Jeff Kottkamp, and Dennis A. Ross dropped out. He was actually sworn in over a year later, in November 2006. He became the first Cuban American to be speaker of the Florida House of Representatives, and would remain speaker until November 2008.[36]
When he was chosen as future speaker in 2005, Rubio delivered a speech to the House in which he asked members to look in their desks, where they each found a hardcover book titled 100 Innovative Ideas For Florida’s Future; but the book was intentionally blank, because it had not yet been written, and Rubio told his colleagues that they would fill in the pages together with the help of ordinary Floridians.[18] In 2006, after traveling around the state and talking with citizens, and compiling their ideas, Rubio published the book.[37][38] The National Journal called this book "the centerpiece of Rubio’s early speakership".[18] About 24 of the "ideas" became law, while another 10 were partially enacted.[38] Among the items from his 2006 book that became law were multiple-year car registrations, a requirement that high schools provide more vocational courses, and an expanded voucher-like school-choice program. Rubio's defenders, and even some critics, point out that nationwide economic difficulties overlapped with much of Rubio's speakership, and so funding new legislative proposals became difficult.[18]
At the time Rubio took office as speaker, Jeb Bush was completing his term as governor, and Bush left office in January 2007. Rubio hired 18 Bush aides, leading capital insiders to say the speaker's suite was "the governor’s office in exile." An article in National Journal described Rubio's style as being very different from Bush's; where Bush was a very assertive manager of affairs in Tallahassee, the article says, Rubio's style was to delegate certain powers, relinquish others, and invite former political rivals into his inner circle.[18] As incoming speaker, he decided to open a private dining room for legislators, which he said would give members more privacy, free from being pursued by lobbyists, though the expense of doing so led to a public relations problem.[18]
In 2006, Florida enacted into law limitations upon the authority of the state government to take private property, in response to the 2005 Supreme Court decision in Kelo v. City of New London which took a broad view of governmental power to take private property under eminent domain. This state legislation had been proposed by a special committee chaired by Rubio prior to his speakership.[39]
Jeb Bush's successor as governor was Charlie Crist, a moderate Republican who took office in January 2007. Rubio and Crist clashed frequently. Their sharpest clash involved the governor's initiative to expand casino gambling in Florida. Rubio sued Crist for bypassing the Florida Legislature in order to make a deal with the Seminole Tribe. The Florida Supreme Court sided with Rubio and blocked the deal.[40][41]
Rubio also was a critic of Crist's efforts to fight climate change through an executive order creating new automobile and utility emissions standards. Rubio accused Crist of imposing "European-style big government mandates," and the legislature under Rubio's leadership weakened the impact of Crist's climate change initiative.[18][41]
Rubio introduced a plan to reduce state property taxes to 2001 levels (and potentially eliminate them altogether), while increasing sales taxes by 1% to 2.5% to fund schools. The proposal would have reduced property taxes in the state by $40–50 billion. His proposal passed the House, but was opposed by Governor Crist and Florida Senate Republicans, who said that the increase in sales tax would disproportionately affect the poor. So, Rubio agreed to smaller changes, and Crist's proposal to double the state's property tax exemption from $25,000 to $50,000 (for a tax reduction estimated by Crist to be $33 billion) ultimately passed.[18][39][42] Legislators called it the largest tax cut in Florida's history up until then.[39][43] At the time, Republican anti-tax activist Grover Norquist described Rubio as "the most pro-taxpayer legislative leader in the country."[42]
As speaker, Rubio "aggressively tried to push Florida to the political right," according to NBC News, and frequently clashed with the Florida Senate, which was run by more moderate Republicans, and with then-Governor Charlie Crist, a centrist Republican at the time.[41] Although a conservative, "behind the scenes many Democrats considered Rubio someone with whom they could work," according to biographer Manuel Roig-Franzia.[44] Dan Gelber of Miami, the House Democratic leader at the time of Rubio's speakership, considered him "a true conservative" but not "a reflexive partisan," saying: "He didn't have an objection to working with the other side simply because they were the other side. To put it bluntly, he wasn't a jerk."[45] Gelber considered Rubio "a severe conservative, really far to the right, but probably the most talented spokesman the severe right could ever hope for."[41]
While Speaker of the Florida House, Rubio shared a residence with another Florida State Representative, David Rivera, which the two co-owned in Tallahassee. The house went into foreclosure in June 2010, after five months of missed mortgage payments.[46] At that point, Rubio assumed responsibility for the payments, and the house was sold in June 2015.[47][48]
In 2010 during Rubio's senate campaign, and again in 2015 during his presidential campaign, issues were raised by the media and his political opponents about some items charged by Rubio to his Republican Party of Florida American Express card during his time as House speaker.[49][50][51] Rubio charged about $110,000 during those two years, of which $16,000 was personal expenses unrelated to party business, such as groceries and plane tickets.[52] Rubio said that he personally paid American Express more than $16,000 for these personal expenses.[53][54] In 2012, the Florida Commission on Ethics cleared Rubio of wrongdoing in his use of the party-issued credit card, although the commission inspector said that Rubio exhibited a "level of negligence" in not using his personal MasterCard.[55][56] In November 2015, Rubio released his party credit card statements for January 2005 through October 2006, which showed eight personal charges totaling $7,243.74, all of which he had personally reimbursed, in most instances by the next billing period.[51][52][57] When releasing the charge records, Rubio spokesman Todd Harris said, "These statements are more than 10 years old. And the only people who ask about them today are the liberal media and our political opponents. We are releasing them now because Marco has nothing to hide."[51]
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(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/11/14/us/15RUBIO1/15RUBIO1-articleLarge.jpg)
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mass wrote above:
"I just don't know what has come over the Trumpeteers."
Dey all be pumpkin heads!
(http://s3.postimg.org/tnu3wu2s1/Donald_Trumpkin.jpg)
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Totally agree. I was sure after the first debate's performance that he was toast. I thought his performance was abysmal and yet his poll numbers went up. After watching the video of his attacks on Carson I said finally it will be over and it appears not to be the case. Although I will vote for him if he is the nominee, I find Trump to be the least appealing candidate I have ever encountered. His persona is a total turn-off for me especially in the role of someone seeking the highest office in the land while boasting of bankruptcies and disparaging people for the looks and heritage. He just lacks any class at all. And yet some of the finest posters here support him enthusiastically. It is so baffling. The worst part is that if he were the nominee I fear the worst trouncing our party has seen in decades. There is just too many videos of Trump insulting individuals or groups. Also with his tendencies to go off on rants, he would be destroyed in a general election.
I think his appeal is that of a "strong man" in part like Putin. Never mind what political philosophy.
Insult native born Hispanic citizens, no problem if the Donald does it. Take property with eminent domain, for rich developers. No problem if the Donald does it.
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Millions of legal, first and second-generation immigrants will vote for Trump.
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Millions of legal, first and second-generation immigrants will vote for Trump.
True. So too for Hillary/Bernie/Elizabeth.
BTW... Why are the dems often referred to by their first names like Elvis?
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Millions of legal, first and second-generation immigrants will vote for Trump.
Things change in a big way since the Gallup Poll released in late August?
Hispanics Frown on Trump, but Not Rest of GOP Field. Trump Negative -51. The next lowest was Cruz and Santorum who tied with -7
http://www.gallup.com/poll/184814/hispanics-frown-trump-not-rest-gop-field.aspx
Hispanics' views of most GOP candidates range from mildly positive to mildly negative. The sole exception is Trump, whose favorable rating with Hispanics is deeply negative.
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Things change in a big way since the Gallup Poll released in late August?
Hispanics Frown on Trump, but Not Rest of GOP Field. Trump Negative -51. The next lowest was Cruz and Santorum who tied with -7
http://www.gallup.com/poll/184814/hispanics-frown-trump-not-rest-gop-field.aspx
Hispanics' views of most GOP candidates range from mildly positive to mildly negative. The sole exception is Trump, whose favorable rating with Hispanics is deeply negative.
As an American born in Italy, I say Americans of Hispanic dissent -pun intended- need an attitude adjustment.
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(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12235116_10205442200320029_5837680259721401993_n.jpg?oh=a8725dbaf3c19f72a0b24c1586331c50&oe=56AD8C5D)