General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 03:15:28 pm
Title: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 03:15:28 pm
Tourist submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard By Ronny Reyes June 19, 2023 10:55am
A tourist submarine has gone missing while exploring the Titanic shipwreck in the Atlantic Ocean, authorities said.
The Boston Coast Guard said a search began on Monday for the small sub, which takes tourists to view the famous shipwreck that sits about 12,500 feet at the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the BBC reported.
It remains unclear how many passengers, if any, were on board the sub when it disappeared and what tourist company owned the vessel.
The Boston Coast Guard did not immediately respond to The Post’s request for additional information.
The wreck of the disaster has remained a popular tourist destination, with passengers taking to the depth to see the haunting site where more than 1,500 passengers died after the “unsinkable” ship struck an iceberg and sank while sailing from Southampton, England, to New York in April 1912.
Tourist submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard By Ronny Reyes June 19, 2023 10:55am
A tourist submarine has gone missing while exploring the Titanic shipwreck in the Atlantic Ocean, authorities said.
The Boston Coast Guard said a search began on Monday for the small sub, which takes tourists to view the famous shipwreck that sits about 12,500 feet at the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the BBC reported.
It remains unclear how many passengers, if any, were on board the sub when it disappeared and what tourist company owned the vessel.
The Boston Coast Guard did not immediately respond to The Post’s request for additional information.
The wreck of the disaster has remained a popular tourist destination, with passengers taking to the depth to see the haunting site where more than 1,500 passengers died after the “unsinkable” ship struck an iceberg and sank while sailing from Southampton, England, to New York in April 1912.
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/19/titanic-tourist-submarine-goes-missing-in-atlantic-ocean/
Oh no!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 19, 2023, 03:36:14 pm
Bkmk
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 03:51:34 pm
Fox confirming that passengers on board the little sub...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 03:56:40 pm
A rescue mission is underway after a vessel used to take tourists to see the underwater wreck of the Titanic went missing in the Atlantic Ocean on Monday.
The U.S. Coast Guard confirmed to Fox News Digital that they were currently searching for a lost submersible. Tourists can charter the small craft for visits to the infamous ship through OceanGate Expeditions, which recently announced new mission crews for a North Atlantic trip on social media.
The Coast Guard says there are five people on board, consisting of one crew member and 4 "mission specialists." They are currently conducting an air search for the vehicle, as it is designed to surface automatically if there are technical issues.
OceanGate announced on Twitter earlier in June that it was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink to provide internet and communications connection during the expedition. It is not clear whether communications played any role in the submersible going missing.
OceanGate charges tourists $250,000 for a spot on their expeditions to the Titanic wreckage. The company has yet to comment on the disappearance, and it could not immediately be contacted due to a surge of internet traffic crashing the company's website on Monday.
more https://www.foxnews.com/world/submarine-tourist-visits-titanic-wreckage-goes-missing-atlantic
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 19, 2023, 04:18:17 pm
So, they're adding some additional satellite wrecks to the main Titanic wreck, ey?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 19, 2023, 05:06:49 pm
Considering there were 4 passengers."mission specialists" aboard who each paid 250 grand for the trip,the USCG WILL be working day and night to try to rescue or recover them.
Money talks,and nobody stays on the bottom.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 06:20:33 pm
A submarine on a pricey tourist expedition to the Titanic shipwreck in the Atlantic Ocean has vanished — and authorities are now searching for the missing passengers, which includes a famed explorer, authorities and family said.
The Boston Coast Guard said a search began on Monday for the small sub, which takes tourists to view the famous shipwreck that sits about 12,500 feet at the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the BBC reported.
OceanGate Expeditions, a private company that provides tours for the site, confirmed that the missing submarine belonged to them, adding that crew members were on board the vessel.
“Our entire focus is on the crewmembers in the submersible and their families,” the company said in a statement. “We are exploring and mobilizing all options to bring the crew back safely.”
The family of world explorer Hamish Harding confirmed on Facebook that he was among the five traveling in the missing submarine.
Harding, a British businessman who previously paid for a space ride aboard The Blue Origin rocket last year, shared a photo of himself on Sunday signing a banner for OceanGate’s latest voyage to the shipwreck.
The traveler boasted about finally being able to get to see the Titanic, noting that because of the poor weather persisting in Newfoundland, Monday morning’s mission would be the only one of 2023.
“We started steaming from St. Johns, Newfoundland, Canada yesterday and are planning to start dive operations around 4am tomorrow morning. Until then we have a lot of preparations and briefings to do,” Harding wrote before the dive.
His stepson, Brian Szasz, shared Harding’s post, writing: “Thoughts and prayers for my stepfather Hamish Harding as his Submarine has gone missing exploring Titanic. Search and rescue mission is underway.”
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/titanic-missing-hamish-harding-090.jpg?quality=75&strip=all) The family of explore Hamish Harding has confirmed he is missing. Facebook/Hamish Harding
The company touts the eight-day trip as a “chance to step outside of everyday life and discover something truly extraordinary.”
The dives themselves can last up to 10 hours each, with the company boasting about recent trips to the Titanic on social media.
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/19/titanic-tourist-submarine-goes-missing-in-atlantic-ocean/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 19, 2023, 06:32:03 pm
What's the cost of something like that?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 19, 2023, 06:36:23 pm
For the people who do this,spending 250 grand is the equivalent of you buying tickets to a pro-ball game.
AND,the 250G is just for the dive itself. It doesn't include transportation expenses.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: berdie on June 19, 2023, 09:04:47 pm
Being fascinated with the Titanic, when I first heard about these tours I really wanted to go on one. But as often happens in life the Benjimans got in the way. Things happen for a reason, I guess.
I hope they find this sub and the people alive.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 09:16:36 pm
Headlines on Fox
Titanic expert ‘very hopeful’ missing OceanGate tourist submarine will be found
Royal Canadian Air Force Aurora aircraft deployed out of 14 Wing Greenwood for aerial search
US Coast Guard, Canadian officials deploying C-130 aircraft in search for missing vessel
https://www.foxnews.com/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 19, 2023, 09:16:50 pm
Being fascinated with the Titanic, when I first heard about these tours I really wanted to go on one. But as often happens in life the Benjimans got in the way. Things happen for a reason, I guess.
I hope they find this sub and the people alive.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Fishrrman on June 19, 2023, 09:18:31 pm
SneakyPete wrote: "According to an article I read on another thread,they are 250 grand per passenger."
OK, who's gonna step up with $250k to be on the NEXT boat down?
In other words, this company is now out of business.
Condolences for those lost. Perhaps they should add them to the Titanic's list of passengers and crew lost at sea...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 19, 2023, 09:26:22 pm
I suppose it must be nice to have $250k to take a submarine 'trip'. Personally, I wouldn't want to be submerged underwater at those depths nor for that length of time.
We've sailed the Gulf of Mexico and the Great Lakes, which the winds and waves can turn on you on a heartbeat, but being submerged -- you're at the mercy of the submarine. Sailing you can at least make a beeline for land, turn the sails, put them down and anchor, etc. I can only imagine what a sailboat that costs $250k would be like ... nice and you could comfortably live aboard.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 19, 2023, 09:51:57 pm
Being fascinated with the Titanic, when I first heard about these tours I really wanted to go on one. But as often happens in life the Benjimans got in the way. Things happen for a reason, I guess.
Me,too. Sitting and waiting for hours to die from suffocation due to a lack of oxygen is something I wouldn't wish on anyone,no matter how evil they might be,and these people are just tourists who are out looking for an adventure with history.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 19, 2023, 09:57:17 pm
I don't get it. They know PRECISELY where the Titanic rests,and she ain't going anywhere.
I SUSPECT what happened is the submersible somehow got tangled up in some of the wreckage,and that's why they can't come back up.
What I don't understand is that I know for a fact there are communications between the submersible "ball" and the dive ship,so SOMEBODY has to know something,and they ain't talking.
Hell,they even have "Real time video and audio" of what is going on during a dive.
Yet,NOTHING is being said to describe what happened,the chances of there being survivors,or even what they plan on doing about it.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DCPatriot on June 19, 2023, 09:59:20 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 19, 2023, 11:51:58 pm
une 19, 2023 6:55pm EDT Coast Guard vet details 'uncomfortable, dark' scenario Titanic tourist sub crew likely experiencing Former search and rescue Coast Guardsman weighs in on missing Titanic sub
By Megan Myers , Jon Michael Raasch | Fox News
The commercial submersible that went missing carrying five passengers while touring the Titanic shipwreck presents a "challenging" and "dire" situation for rescuers, a former Coast Guardsman told Fox News.
"From what I understand, the vessels are not designed for long-range, multi-day excursions," said John Mixson, a retired U.S. Coast Guard lieutenant commander who was involved in long-range search and rescue missions. "So it's going to be a very, very uncomfortable, dark experience with a lot of hope and prayers."
"I would say it is extremely serious. It's a dire situation," he continued. "But on the other side of that fact, it is still considered classified as a search and rescue mission, which should give everyone hope, including the family members and friends of the people on board the vessel."
FORMER COAST GUARD SEARCH AND RESCUE PILOT WEIGHS IN ON MISSING SUB:
more https://www.foxnews.com/us/coast-guard-vet-details-uncomfortable-dark-scenario-titanic-tourist-sub-crew-likely-experiencing
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 20, 2023, 01:04:10 am
Follow the $$$ @sneakypete the Trail surreptitiously leads back to Florida and that DeDa guy, Shirley.
:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 20, 2023, 01:49:28 am
June 19, 2023 8:37pm EDT Former Navy officer, US congressman calls for deployment of nuclear sub to search for missing Titanic tour The tourist submersible went missing Sunday with five people on board
By Brandon Gillespie | Fox News
EXCLUSIVE: A U.S. congressman who served as a nuclear submarine officer in the U.S. Navy is calling for the force to take action in the search for a missing tourist submersible destined for the wreckage of the Titanic that disappeared on Sunday.
"I have 500 days at sea on a submarine, so my heart really goes out to the missing crewmen and their families. The United States Navy needs to step up and do everything possible to help locate that submarine as quickly as possible," Rep. Brandon Williams, R-N.Y., told Fox News Digital Monday evening.
The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) confirmed to Fox earlier in the day that they were currently searching for a lost Titan submersible. Tourists can charter the small craft for visits to the Titanic through OceanGate Expeditions (OGE), which recently announced new mission crews for a North Atlantic trip on social media.
"We have the best sonar operators in the world, we have the best sonar equipment in the world, and locating the missing submarine is the first step to recovering the crew—time is against us. The United States Navy, I hope, is offering all assistance necessary," Williams said.
Williams, who joined the Navy in 1991, volunteered to serve as a nuclear submarine officer and went through the Navy's grueling nuclear engineering training. He completed six strategic-deterrent patrols aboard the USS Georgia, serving as the Strategic Missile Officer, before leaving the military in 1996.
He stressed the need to avoid wasting time in rescuing the lost submersible in a Tweet he posted earlier Monday.
"[U.S. Navy] —deploy a nuclear submarine to find our civilian friends [OceanGate Expeditions]. Don’t wait, get the best sonar operators in the world in a position to help rescue the lost submersible and it’s crew, while there is still hope!" he wrote.
more https://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-navy-officer-us-congressman-calls-deployment-nuclear-sub-search-lost-titanic-tour
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 20, 2023, 02:22:05 am
I honestly have no idea who or what you are talking about.
Quote
Noone else does either @sneakypete that's the tragedy of my Ministry.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 20, 2023, 02:44:23 am
UK billionaire Hamish Harding on board missing Titanic submersible, family confirms
Quote
UK billionaire Hamish Harding is one of five people on board a missing tourist submersible used to take people to see the wreck of the Titanic.
Sky News understands two others on board the vessel, named Titan, are French submersible pilot Paul-Henry Nargeolet, and chief executive and founder of OceanGate Expeditions Stockton Rush.
Being fascinated with the Titanic, when I first heard about these tours I really wanted to go on one. But as often happens in life the Benjimans got in the way. Things happen for a reason, I guess.
I hope they find this sub and the people alive.
Me, too. But it is ~5,500 PSI outside at the Titanic wreck site.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Sighlass on June 20, 2023, 04:04:40 am
Follow the $$$ @sneakypete the Trail surreptitiously leads back to Florida and that DeDa guy, Shirley.
:da man:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 20, 2023, 06:50:12 am
Titanic submersible rescue operation a race against time as oxygen supply dwindles
Quote
Five people, including British billionaire Hamish Harding, are on board the vessel which began its dive towards the Titanic wreck on Sunday morning. The submersible had a 96-hour oxygen supply in case of emergencies - meaning only around two days of "life support" remain.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 20, 2023, 12:46:11 pm
Quote
A veteran French diver aboard the missing Titanic-bound submersible made a chilling warning a few years ago about the perils of diving to the abyss – saying: “You’re dead before you realize that something is wrong.”
Paul-Henry Nargeolet, 77, a former French navy diver known as “Mr. Titanic,” was asked in 2019 by the Irish Examiner whether he ever got scared diving 12,500 feet to reach the famous passenger liner’s wreckage.
“If you are 11m or 11km down, if something bad happens, the result is the same,” the Connecticut resident told the outlet. “When you’re in very deep water, you’re dead before you realize that something is happening, so it’s just not a problem.” ...
NY Post (https://nypost.com/2023/06/20/paul-henry-nargeole-diver-missing-on-titanic-sub-made-chilling-remark-about-deep-dives/)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 20, 2023, 01:03:03 pm
This thing seems to be less safe than a Pinto being tailgated by a tanker truck. https://twitter.com/FnpMarieOH/status/1670931677013524487
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Polly Ticks on June 20, 2023, 01:11:34 pm
I wonder at what point it changes from search and rescue to a recovery effort?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 20, 2023, 01:13:48 pm
June 20, 2023 7:36am EDT OceanGate CEO last year addressed 'worry' of Titan submarine being unable to return to surface Titan remains missing Tuesday following tourist dive to explore wreckage of Titanic
By Greg Norman | Fox New
The CEO of the company whose submersible craft has vanished with five people on board during a tourist dive to explore the wreckage of the Titanic revealed in a podcast interview late last year that he had a worry of objects preventing the vessel from returning to the surface.
Stockton Rush of OceanGate addressed the concern during a November episode of "Unsung Science" titled "Back to Titanic Part 1," which featured a discussion of his company’s now-missing Titan sub.
"So, once we’re down there, what are the things to worry about?" host David Pogue, a "CBS Sunday Morning" correspondent, asked Rush.
"What I worry about most are things that will stop me from being able to get to the surface. Overhangs, fish nets, entanglement hazards," Rush said. "And, that’s just a technique, piloting technique. It’s pretty clear -- if it’s an overhang, don’t go under it. If there is a net, don’t go near it. So, you can avoid those if you are just slow and steady."
more https://www.foxnews.com/world/oceangate-ceo-last-year-addressed-worry-titan-sub-being-unable-return-surface
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 20, 2023, 01:23:28 pm
Passengers of missing sub run by ‘Playstation’ controller were billionaires on expedition to Titanic June 20, 2023 | Terresa Monroe-Hamilton
The Titan submersible vanished on Sunday an hour and forty-five minutes after departing to view the wreckage of the Titanic, carrying five people onboard the 22 ft. carbon fiber and titanium vessel that is controlled by a PlayStation controller.
more https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/06/20/passengers-of-missing-sub-run-by-playstation-controller-were-billionaires-on-expedition-to-titanic-1370069/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 20, 2023, 01:27:12 pm
Passengers of missing sub run by ‘Playstation’ controller were billionaires on expedition to Titanic June 20, 2023 | Terresa Monroe-Hamilton
The Titan submersible vanished on Sunday an hour and forty-five minutes after departing to view the wreckage of the Titanic, carrying five people onboard the 22 ft. carbon fiber and titanium vessel that is controlled by a PlayStation controller.
more https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/06/20/passengers-of-missing-sub-run-by-playstation-controller-were-billionaires-on-expedition-to-titanic-1370069/
Nuts.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Wingnut on June 20, 2023, 01:55:14 pm
Two fears. Trapped in a mine cave in. Trapped in a sardine can on the ocean floor.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: PeteS in CA on June 20, 2023, 02:01:59 pm
Re the US and Oz planes going to the area, I know sonobuoy and Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) technology have advanced considerably since WW2, but a certain large ferrous object has been in that area for a century and change. Will the planes be able to be useful in that context?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: bigheadfred on June 20, 2023, 02:12:03 pm
You would think something like this sub would have some sort of emergency signalling device.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DCPatriot on June 20, 2023, 02:59:35 pm
What are the chances that all motor power AND communications (GPS) are gone simultaneously?
They'd have the GPS on its own independent power source...wouldn't they? @bigheadfred (Great minds think alike LOL)
Wish it was "The Abyss" remake. Hopefully, they're found before it's too late.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 20, 2023, 03:08:45 pm
What about an emergency weighted/anchored buoy directing a signal from the surface? Something? Anything?
Very low frequency radio waves work under water. The surface is more than 2 miles up. You would think there would be some sort of releasable buoy for emergency communications. But if the sub failed catastrophically there would be nothing.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DCPatriot on June 20, 2023, 03:57:07 pm
Very low frequency radio waves work under water. The surface is more than 2 miles up. You would think there would be some sort of releasable buoy for emergency communications. But if the sub failed catastrophically there would be nothing.
:beer:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 20, 2023, 05:30:39 pm
CNN has a live presser right now.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: rangerrebew on June 20, 2023, 05:35:00 pm
Efforts to rescue the Titanic submersible are being delayed because US officials haven't approved paperwork, OceanGate advisor says Story by tporter@businessinsider.com (Tom Porter) • 6h ago
The company that owns the missing Titanic submersible criticized bureaucratic delays.
It said vital equipment is being being held up by US officials.
Rescuers are searching for the submersible that went missing Sunday.
A delay by US officials in approving paperwork is hampering the mission to find a submersible that has five people trapped on board, an advisor to the company that owns the sub said.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 20, 2023, 07:40:29 pm
BTW,why all the cheap shots at the control device?
If it works,it works. That's all any of them can do.
BTW,I am a BIG fan of the "Keep it simple,stupid!" line of thinking. The less complex something is,the less likely it is to fail.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 20, 2023, 07:48:09 pm
The picture above implies there's a cable that goes from the sub to the surface. If so, that is likely what is used to communicate with it. If there was a cable, it must be gone or disconnected for the sub to be lost.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 20, 2023, 07:49:27 pm
Thinking about it, perhaps that cable is a low frequency antenna and does not go to the surface.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 20, 2023, 07:54:45 pm
Efforts to rescue the Titanic submersible are being delayed because US officials haven't approved paperwork, OceanGate advisor says Story by tporter@businessinsider.com (Tom Porter) • 6h ago
The company that owns the missing Titanic submersible criticized bureaucratic delays.
It said vital equipment is being being held up by US officials.
BTW,why all the cheap shots at the control device?
If it works,it works. That's all any of them can do.
BTW,I am a BIG fan of the "Keep it simple,stupid!" line of thinking. The less complex something is,the less likely it is to fail.
Saw a video lately on training crew for the M! Abrams, and they touted the fact that the controls were similar to a playstation making training so much easier because new recruits were familiar with the feel, etc. of the controls. What works works...until it doesn't.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 20, 2023, 10:51:51 pm
At the meeting, Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the engineering department: The viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters – although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters, according to the complaint. @DB
IF that is true,it's over for that soon to be bankrupt company.
It may be over even if it isn't true because ALL the victims are from Billionaire families,and you can bet your bippy the negligence law suits WILL be flying. Filing a law suit like this for them is like most of us taking our family to a movie. They can finance it on a CC and pay off the CC before any interest comes due.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: corbe on June 21, 2023, 03:17:35 am
The problem is there ain't no getting out unless the can they are in can go up.
I have no idea if there is even a ship sailing that carries enough cable to reach that far down to pull the submersible up,and even if there is,how would they even go about doing it?
I am NOT a salvage expert and do not even play one on teebee,but the only way I can think of would be to drag a steel net like a trawling shrimp boat,and scoop the submersible up in it. Something that sounds a LOT easier than the reality would be. Once again,you would have to have an accurate sonar/radar contact with the submersible,and IF you could do that,the problem of not having enough cable to go that deep still exists.
There MIGHT be a possibility a specialized sub (covert ops) MIGHT be able to hook up to it and raise it up when the sub blows it's ballast,and there MIGHT even be a deep-diving sub with a bow that opens to allow men and material in and out. Just guessing here. I don't know a damn thing about subs other than I will hurt anybody that tries to get me on one.
Maybe the authorities can check with the guys that work the deep sea oil rigs off-shore to see if they have any equipment or suggestions that would help?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 21, 2023, 07:09:47 am
About the max for hard suit atmospheric diving is reputed to be down to 2000 ft. Scuba, in all its mixed gas, saturation habitat variations doesn't get half way there.
The only viable means of rescue would be to attach a cable/net using another deep diving submersible or ROV, and haul it up to the surface.
By the time you got enough air in a bag to lift it, the bag would blow on the way up as the air expanded.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 21, 2023, 07:36:17 am
About the max for hard suit atmospheric diving is reputed to be down to 2000 ft. Scuba, in all its mixed gas, saturation habitat variations doesn't get half way there.
The only viable means of rescue would be to attach a cable/net using another deep diving submersible or ROV, and haul it up to the surface.
By the time you got enough air in a bag to lift it, the bag would blow on the way up as the air expanded.
Yeah,but chances are a "special operations" sub could hook a cable to it and haul it up.
Or even use a big-ass magnet. After all,the submersible is assumed to still have air and not be full of water,so how hard could it be to raise it up if you could hook a cable or make a magnetic connection.
Assuming of course that subs like that are available and close enough to get there in time.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 21, 2023, 10:38:31 am
Great video. Thanks for posting. I hope that whatever happened, it was quick and painless. I can't imagine the horror of being in that death trap for hours, knowing you have no chance to survive.
I hope this event does not encourage governments to pass laws restricting this kind of thing. Everyone on board that vessel knew the risks and accepted the risks. It is tragic, and this event will help to illuminate the inherent risks in these kinds of adventures so that whoever signs up will do so knowing the implications. But government does not exist to protect us from ourselves, regardless of what the mob says.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 21, 2023, 12:02:35 pm
Yeah,but chances are a "special operations" sub could hook a cable to it and haul it up.
Or even use a big-ass magnet. After all,the submersible is assumed to still have air and not be full of water,so how hard could it be to raise it up if you could hook a cable or make a magnetic connection.
Assuming of course that subs like that are available and close enough to get there in time.
The sub is made of carbon fiber and titanium. A magnet likely won't find much to stick to. What ever does the hook-up has to be able to survive and function under pressures of 5500 PSI or more.
Currently operational (well, not decommissioned or retired) DSVs include Limiting Factor capable of 6000 meters, Nautile (French owned), Mir (Russian), and possibly two or three Chinese bathyscaphes, plus anything the Navy has they have not spoken up about. There are only a handful of manned units in the world capable of going to that depth. After that there are some ROVs, I don't know how many or who owns them, but it is a pretty small group.
Of the bathyscaphes capable of reaching that depth, ever, better than half have been decommissioned or lost at sea or to other accidents.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 21, 2023, 12:04:33 pm
The sub is made of carbon fiber and titanium. A magnet likely won't find much to stick to. What ever does the hook-up has to be able to survive and function under pressures of 5500 PSI or more.
Currently operational (well, not decommissioned or retired) DSVs include Limiting Factor capable of 6000 meters, Nautile (French owned), Mir (Russian), and possibly two or three Chinese bathyscaphes, plus anything the Navy has they have not spoken up about. There are only a handful of manned units in the world capable of going to that depth. After that there are some ROVs, I don't know how many or who owns them, but it is a pretty small group.
Of the bathyscaphes capable of reaching that depth, ever, better than half have been decommissioned or lost at sea or to other accidents.
Another problem with grabbing onto that thing at such depths is that it isn't just a matter of wrapping some cables around it and pulling it up - anything that puts an asymmetric load on the pressure vessel would most likely trigger a compression collapse at depth.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: American Girl on June 21, 2023, 12:23:31 pm
Disrespect for wisdom and experience, with some kind of almost imperial demand to erase "white men" from society, doesn't really impress me as far as "progress" goes. They will be only happy when the entire world is just like Africa and the Middle East. Good luck with that one!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: MOD3 on June 21, 2023, 01:00:09 pm
Merged threads
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 21, 2023, 01:26:41 pm
June 21, 2023 3:33am EDT Canadian aircraft detected 'underwater noises’ from search area for missing Titanic tourist submarine Remotely operated vehicle operations attempted to explore the origin of the noises, the Coast Guard said
By Sarah Rumpf-Whitten | Fox News
A Canadian aircraft deployed to assist with rescue efforts for the missing Titanic tourist submersible picked up "underwater noises" in the vessel's search area, according to the Coast Guard (USCG).
"Canadian P-3 aircraft detected underwater noises in the search area," the USCG in the Northeast region announced on Twitter early Wednesday morning.
The Coast Guard said the detection of the underwater sounds in the designated search area prompted investigators to deploy remotely operated vehicle to relocate and investigate the origin of the unusual noises.
Though the search efforts "yielded negative results," the USCG said the operation continues.
more https://www.foxnews.com/us/canadian-aircraft-detected-underwater-noises-search-area-missing-titanic-tourist-submarine
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Idiot on June 21, 2023, 01:37:38 pm
Sadly this will become a recovery mission in a very few hours. I can't see any way they can be saved at this point. Like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Not many ships happen to carry 3 miles of cable to lasso it with.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 21, 2023, 01:59:52 pm
Great video. Thanks for posting. I hope that whatever happened, it was quick and painless. I can't imagine the horror of being in that death trap for hours, knowing you have no chance to survive.
I hope this event does not encourage governments to pass laws restricting this kind of thing. Everyone on board that vessel knew the risks and accepted the risks. It is tragic, and this event will help to illuminate the inherent risks in these kinds of adventures so that whoever signs up will do so knowing the implications. But government does not exist to protect us from ourselves, regardless of what the mob says.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 21, 2023, 03:39:06 pm
New assets 'on-scene' in missing Titanic sub search after Canadians pick up 'underwater noises'
BOSTON – Three new vessels arrived "on-scene" in the Atlantic Ocean Wednesday morning to join search and rescue efforts for the missing OceanGate Titan sub as the estimated oxygen supply on board continues to dwindle.
The U.S. Coast Guard said the new vessels bring additional tools to scan the ocean floor as they race against the clock to save the five people onboard: OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, British businessman Hamish Harding, father-and-son Shahzada and Suleman Dawood, who are members of one of Pakistan’s wealthiest families, and Paul-Henry Nargeolet, a former French navy officer and leading Titanic expert.
"The John Cabot has side-scanning sonar capabilities and is conducting search patterns alongside the Skandi Vinland and the Atlantic Merlin," the Coast Guard said.
The John Cabot is a Canadian coast guard vessel, the Atlantic Merlin is a Canadian remotely operated vehicle (ROV), and the Skandi Vinland is a commercial ROV, authorities said. Several additional assets were still headed toward the search area.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 21, 2023, 03:39:50 pm
Less than 24 hours left of 'breathable air' onboard OceanGate Titan
There are now less than 24 hours of oxygen onboard the missing OceanGate Titan submarine, according to an estimate from the U.S. Coast Guard.
The Coast Guard said Tuesday afternoon that there were just 40 hours left of "breathable air" inside the vessel.
By their estimate, it should run out by Thursday morning eastern standard time.
The vessel launched its journey Sunday with 96 hours of oxygen onboard.
So far, the search of an area greater than the size of the state of Connecticut has turned up no signs of Titan, according to the Coast Guard.
A Canadian aircraft deployed to assist with rescue efforts has picked up "underwater noises" in the vessel's search area, the Coast Guard also said.
"Canadian P-3 aircraft detected underwater noises in the search area," the USCG in the Northeast region announced on Twitter early Wednesday morning.
The Coast Guard said the detection of the underwater sounds in the designated search area prompted investigators to deploy remotely operated vehicle to relocate and investigate the origin of the unusual noises.
Though the search efforts "yielded negative results," the USCG said the operation continues.
Fox News' Sarah Rumpf-Whitten contributed to this report. Posted by Greg Norman
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 21, 2023, 03:42:01 pm
OceanGate Was Twice Warned of 'Catastrophic' Problems With Its Submersible
BY RICK MORAN JUNE 21, 2023
The saga of the Titan submersible, missing since Monday shortly after it launched to take tourists to see the wreck of the Titanic, is a story that may prove to be as tragic — and maddening — as the tale of the doomed ocean liner itself.
In 2018, experts inside and outside the company sounded alarms about the Titan submersible — most notably, that the craft wasn’t properly certified to dive to the depths necessary to reach the Titanic. OceanGate’s director of marine operations, David Lochridge, wrote a report saying the craft needed more testing, stressing “the potential dangers to passengers of the Titan as the submersible reached extreme depths.”
Two months later, two dozen experts in the submersibles industry — deep sea explorers and oceanographers — sent a letter to OceanGate Expeditions chief executive Stockton Rush saying that the company’s refusal to get a “traditional assessment” could lead to potentially “catastrophic” problems with the Titanic mission.
It should be noted that Mr. Rush is currently onboard the Titan — wherever it may be. A Canadian search plane picked up underwater noises in the search area.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Wingnut on June 21, 2023, 04:10:13 pm
If you are gonna spend a quarter of a million dollars for a ride to see a sunken ship you would think the owners would have invested in a state of the art navigational device. But what the hey, What could be more reliable than a used Nintedo 64 gaming controller.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 21, 2023, 04:15:38 pm
Wow. There are 5 people in the 22 ft. submersible .... not a whole lot of room and I'd say the oxygen supply isn't what they are conveying. I've read that they have less then 10 hours left -- this article is saying about a day.
Missing Titanic submarine live updates: Noises detected in search; company faced safety questions
As U.S. and Canadian crews continued to search Wednesday for a missing submersible that may have only a day's supply of oxygen left, more information was emerging about experts' attempts to warn the company that owns the underwater vessel about the perils of its operations.
Documents show an OceanGate employee warned there might be safety problems posed by the way the experimental vessel was developed, and leaders in the submersible craft industry told the company its approach to the enterprise could have a "catastrophic'' outcome.
The 22-foot submersible was carrying five people in a dive to the wreckage site of the Titanic when it lost contact with a support ship Sunday. ..........
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 21, 2023, 04:18:16 pm
The 22-foot submersible and its support ship left from St. John's on Friday. The submarine submerged with five people on board Sunday morning, the Coast Guard said. The Canadian ship monitoring the submersible lost contact with it about an hour and 45 minutes later.........
.................Built by OceanGate Inc, the Titan submersible is designed to take five people to depths of 13,124 feet for site survey and inspection, research and data collection. The submarine weighs 25,000 pounds and has a titanium crew compartment and a carbon fiber hull. Unlike submarines, submersibles has limited power reserves, so they require a support ship that can launch and recover them.....................
............The Titanic lies about 370 miles off Newfoundland, Canada, at a depth of about 12,500 feet. Trips to the site typically involve a two-hour descent. Few vessels can endure the pressure at such depth — more than 5,300 pounds per square inch...........
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 21, 2023, 04:31:06 pm
Reporter who rode Titanic submersible tells USA TODAY about 'less sophisticated' parts
Quote
A CBS reporter who last year rode the Titan submersible that vanished off the coast of Canada this week with five people inside told USA TODAY parts of the vessel seemed "less sophisticated" and described the safety features meant to avoid a crisis like the one it's currently facing.
"I was anticipating a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and I got it," CBS correspondent David Pogue told USA TODAY's "5 Things" podcast.
Pogue boarded submersible for a CBS report that aired in November alongside OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, who is among the five missing passengers on the voyage to tour the wreckage of the Titanic.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 21, 2023, 05:39:55 pm
You would think the sub would be going straight down to where the Titanic wreck is and the search area be very small. Even if there were strong currents the sub was nearly to its destination when it went quiet. So prior to going quiet it was being navigated to the correct location.
And you would also think that something like this would have at least one unmanned drone follow it down keeping an eye on it being able to render aid if it got tangled in something. An unmanned drone would be far simpler and less costly to operate as a team.
Doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 21, 2023, 05:43:55 pm
If you are gonna spend a quarter of a million dollars for a ride to see a sunken ship you would think the owners would have invested in a state of the art navigational device. But what the hey, What could be more reliable than a used Nintedo 64 gaming controller.
The money wouldn't worry me as much as being 2000 (or however much) feet below the surface...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Idiot on June 21, 2023, 05:44:59 pm
Yes. And I am reading Twitter posts where people are criticizing the design because the crew access is bolted in. As if an escape hatch would do any good at 12,000 feet.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 21, 2023, 07:05:23 pm
Yes. And I am reading Twitter posts where people are criticizing the design because the crew access is bolted in. As if an escape hatch would do any good at 12,000 feet.
The issue is if you manage to surface you still can't get out and get air.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 21, 2023, 07:09:10 pm
Yes. And I am reading Twitter posts where people are criticizing the design because the crew access is bolted in. As if an escape hatch would do any good at 12,000 feet.
Pressure at that depth 6000-6500 PSI so escape hatches are not practical.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 21, 2023, 07:10:19 pm
Exactly -- from my understanding another ship has to navigate bringing them in -- the access is still bolted in .
So how long is it going to take to bring them in and unbolt that hatch??
Looks like about the same amount of time it would take to get a tire off your car. Minutes.
It seems to me that if the crew was alive they would have released ballast and come to the surface. That suggests hull breach or fire. If so, I hope it was quick.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 21, 2023, 07:57:23 pm
The Lost Titanic Sub Didn’t Even Have a Basic Safety Beacon SILENT ALARMS
Untethered by regulations, the vehicle wasn’t even equipped with some of the most essential tools. Its inexplicable design may end in tragedy. Tony Ho Tran
Deputy Editor, Innovation & Tech Justin Rohrlich
Reporter Updated Jun. 20, 2023 5:41PM ET / Published Jun. 20, 2023 3:27PM ET
Search and rescue teams are racing against the clock as they attempt to find a missing submersible and its five-person crew that was slated to explore the wreck of the Titanic nearly 13,000 feet under the North Atlantic on June 18. The U.S. Coast Guard said that the 22-foot-long deep-sea vessel, dubbed the Titan, only has a few days worth of oxygen.
The craft is owned and operated by OceanGate, a private submersible company that offers chartered trips to the wreckage of the Titanic to customers for $250,000 a seat. It set out on its voyage on Sunday morning, but lost contact with its research ship the Polar Prince about 1 hour and 45 minutes into its journey.
Things are looking bleak. Even in the best conditions, voyages on and under the North Atlantic are fraught with the kinds of dangers that the Titanic itself faced including freezing water temperatures, chaotic weather conditions, and surging waves and currents. It’s not helped that the technology that went into building the Titan was experimental, unregulated, risky, and potentially life-threatening. This not only makes diving operations like the one undertaken by the Titan fraught, but it also dangerously complicates search and rescue operations.
“We are doing everything that we can do to make sure that we can locate and rescue those on board,” U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral John Mauger said at a press briefing. He later told Good Morning America that the international team of search and rescue officials have scoured an area “about the size of Connecticut” so far.
Walt ‘Butch’ Hendrick, a former safety coordinator for the U.S. Army’s Green Beret Diver Trainer Program, told The Daily Beast that if the sub is entangled by the Titanic wreckage or something else, a remotely operated underwater vehicle (ROV) could theoretically cut through four inches of steel to cut it loose—but it needs to be fitted with the right tools to be able to do so.
more https://www.thedailybeast.com/missing-titanic-sub-plagued-by-a-long-history-of-deadly-safety-issues
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 21, 2023, 07:59:34 pm
.......... Titan, the lost submersible from the company OceanGate, is a technological maverick based on novel concepts that differ from standard designs. Moreover, unlike most deep-sea craft, Titan has undergone no certification by a reputable marine group that does such licensing work for other craft, including one built by OceanGate that dives to shallower depths.
“It suggests they were cutting corners,” said Bruce H. Robison, a senior marine biologist at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute in California, who has explored the ocean’s depths with more than a dozen different kinds of submersibles.
Alfred S. McLaren, a retired Navy submariner and president emeritus of the Explorers Club of New York City, agreed. “I’ve had three people ask me about making a dive on it,” he said in reference to the lost submersible. “And I said, ‘Don’t do it.’ I wouldn’t do it in a million years.”......................
Looks like about the same amount of time it would take to get a tire off your car. Minutes.
It seems to me that if the crew was alive they would have released ballast and come to the surface. That suggests hull breach or fire. If so, I hope it was quick.
??? Does this submersible have ballast that can be released to the surface???
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 21, 2023, 08:04:39 pm
??? Does this submersible have ballast that can be released to the surface???
It has ballast that can be released in order for the craft to surface, yes. That is why they are speculating that it got stuck on something and can't move. Because the only other alternative is crew is dead or incapacitated.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 21, 2023, 08:08:04 pm
Perhaps someone else has drawn the analogy, but climbers on Everest are sometimes abandoned.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 21, 2023, 08:09:22 pm
Perhaps someone else has drawn the analogy, but climbers on Everest are sometimes abandoned.
Good point. The mountain is littered with dead bodies.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: berdie on June 21, 2023, 08:10:28 pm
A question (maybe a dumb one) but assuming this vessel is intact, would it have to be brought slowly to the surface, much like a scuba driver has to come up slowly?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: bigheadfred on June 21, 2023, 08:18:25 pm
A question (maybe a dumb one) but assuming this vessel is intact, would it have to be brought slowly to the surface, much like a scuba driver has to come up slowly?
The sub can come up fast. All the pressure is on the hull. The people inside aren't exposed to that pressure like divers are.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 21, 2023, 08:30:12 pm
Missing Titanic sub: Dire animation suggests how far it’s sunk By Ben Cost June 21, 2023 3:00pm
Amid desperate efforts to rescue the five passengers trapped aboard the Titan, a video has circulated illustrating just how deep the Titanic-bound submersible could have sunk.
The unsettling animated clip is currently making waves online.
The dizzying 3-D demo, created by Spanish animation company MetaBallStudios, depicts a virtual underwater seascape filled with global landmarks, as if an Atlantis-esque apocalypse had drowned Earth’s treasures.
As the illustrated submersible descends into the digital depths, the video’s perspective passes various global landmarks, including the Statue of Liberty (305 feet tall), the Eiffel Tower (984 feet) and the Burj Khalifa (2,719 feet).
Other measuring sticks include a Typhoon-class submarine’s test depth (1,312 feet) and the bottom of the Southern Ocean (10,728 feet).
Eventually, the viewer is transported all the way down to the wreckage of the Titanic, some 12,000 feet below sea level at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean — where rescuers suspect that the Titan is trapped after disappearing Sunday.
Aboard the vessel are OceanGate Expeditions founder and CEO Stockton Rush, French Titanic expert Paul-Henri Nargeolet, British billionaire Hamish Harding and Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood and his 19-year-old son, Suleman.
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/titanic-sub-terrifying-animation-predicts-how-far-its-sunk/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 21, 2023, 09:55:42 pm
Given that ships have items like high-rpm air-powered drills with cobalt bits,acetylene torches,high-speed metal grinders,and I am sure other similar items I am unaware of,it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to burn,cut,or drill a hole in the submersible,and let air in.
Letting air IN ASAP once surfaced is a lot more important than getting the occupants out right away,and there will be more than one hole being drilled or cut at the same time.
Essentially,if any are still alive once it pops up above the ocean surface,they are safe.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 21, 2023, 11:04:27 pm
Titanic tour CEO didn’t hire ‘50-year-old white guys’ because they weren’t ‘inspirational’
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 22, 2023, 12:02:50 am
.......“There are 10 submarines in the world that can go 12,000 ft and deeper,” Kohnen said. “All of them are certified except the Oceangate submersible.”..........
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 22, 2023, 12:09:16 am
.......“There are 10 submarines in the world that can go 12,000 ft and deeper,” Kohnen said. “All of them are certified except the Oceangate submersible.”..........
1) Didn't Jacque Cousteau always have oxygen being pumped from a ship on the surface?
2) Couldn't a ship on the surface contain 3 miles of cable and tubing?
Might not be as 'sexy' going down independently in your own sub...but geez. :shrug:
That's what first caught my eye is the complete lack of a surface support team that everyone else doing the same type of endeavor always has. I can't believe these people let themselves get snookered right to their deaths.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 22, 2023, 01:40:35 am
1) Didn't Jacque Cousteau always have oxygen being pumped from a ship on the surface?
2) Couldn't a ship on the surface contain 3 miles of cable and tubing?
Might not be as 'sexy' going down independently in your own sub...but geez. :shrug:
Apparently - but not certain - they had a cable going to the surface with a buoy housing a StarLink satellite modem. And that is what they used for communications.
Regarding a hose, it would have to be a hell of hose to withstand nearly 6,000 lbs per square inch of pressure without collapsing. It would also be heavy and increase the chances of getting tangled up in something. The communications cable could be pretty small with small floats keeping it taunt. It could also more easily be jettisoned if entangled in something.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DCPatriot on June 22, 2023, 01:44:51 am
Apparently - but not certain - they had a cable going to the surface with a buoy housing a StarLink satellite modem. And that is what they used for communications.
Regarding a hose, it would have to be a hell of hose to withstand nearly 6,000 lbs per square inch of pressure without collapsing. It would also be heavy and increase the chances of getting tangled up in something. The communications cable could be pretty small with small floats keeping it taunt. It could also more easily be jettisoned if entangled in something.
Stupid me...completely forgot about the water pressure on the oxygen tubing. :laugh:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DCPatriot on June 22, 2023, 01:46:28 am
That's what first caught my eye is the complete lack of a surface support team that everyone else doing the same type of endeavor always has. I can't believe these people let themselves get snookered right to their deaths.
:beer:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: corbe on June 22, 2023, 02:44:18 am
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 22, 2023, 02:44:26 am
Submersible pilot's wife is descendant of famous Titanic couple who died arm in arm
Quote
The wife of the CEO of OceanGate, who was piloting the missing Titanic tourist submersible, is descended from a wealthy New York couple who drowned on the Titanic when the famed ship hit an iceberg in 1912.
Wendy Rush is the wife of Stockton Rush, one of the five people trapped in a Titan sub that went missing Sunday after a trip to visit the Titanic wreckage.
Wendy's great-great-grandparents, Isidor and Ida Straus, died in the 1912 disaster.
Isidor is a co-founder of Macy's department store. He and his wife were featured in James Cameron's 1997 film about the disaster as the two fictionalized versions were shown embraced on a better as water rushed into the ship and around them.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 11:47:59 am
Titanic tourist sub missing in the Atlantic Ocean runs out of oxygen
By Ronny Reyes June 22, 2023
The Titanic tourist submersible that vanished on a trip to the 112-year-old shipwreck at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean is believed to have run out of oxygen — but authorities pushed forward with the search operation Thursday morning.
OceanGate Expeditions, which operates the Titan sub and has its CEO Stockton Rush aboard the missing vessel, told the Coast Guard Sunday evening that the vehicle was equipped with only 96 hours of oxygen, with the timer running out around 7:08 a.m. Thursday morning.
The status of the five passengers aboard the ill-fated trip remains unclear as US and Canadian officials work around the clock to attempt to locate the missing Titan sub 900 miles east of Cape Cod.
The Coast Guard on Thursday morning confirmed that a remote-operated vehicle “has reached the sea floor” and started searching for the missing sub.
“The French vessel L’Atalante is preparing their ROV to enter the water,” it added.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 22, 2023, 12:23:26 pm
Why did the US government hold up on letting the British vessel participate in rescue efforts until it was most likely too late?
Quote
Titanic Sub Rescue Team Gets New Vessel at Eleventh Hour—'Improved the Odds' Story by Aleks Phillips • 2h ago June 22, 2023
The arrival of a specialist remotely operated vehicle (ROV) in the search for a missing submersible at the wreck of the Titanic has "improved the odds of a positive outcome," the president of The Explorers Club has said.
Richard Garriott, the head of the thrill-seekers organization, had previously expressed concern that the deep-sea exploration unit had not been utilized earlier in the search. He said on Wednesday in the National Geographic that U.S. Coast Guard red tape had held up its deployment.
On Thursday morning, the BBC reported that a U.S. Air Force C-17 Globemaster had landed in Jersey, U.K, to collect the Argus ROV, owned by British deep-sea mapping company Magellan. ...
Newsweek approached the U.S. Coast Guard via email for comment on Thursday.
The National Geographic reported on Wednesday that Garriott wrote to U.S. Navy officials that afternoon, saying Magellan had "received mixed signals" before being "told to stand down."
Magellan stated publicly that it was contacted by OceanGate on Monday, and asked the company to "use the means necessary to fly the needed equipment and crew to St. John's, Newfoundland as soon as possible, stating time is of the essence." ...
Newsweek via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/titanic-sub-rescue-team-gets-new-vessel-at-eleventh-hour-improved-the-odds/ar-AA1cSxO1)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Idiot on June 22, 2023, 01:12:18 pm
Why did the US government hold up on letting the British vessel participate in rescue efforts until it was most likely too late?Newsweek via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/titanic-sub-rescue-team-gets-new-vessel-at-eleventh-hour-improved-the-odds/ar-AA1cSxO1)
If you come across the border don't worry about paperwork, if you need expedited documents for a rescue forget about it.
Why would the U.S. government have any say so anyway since this is in international waters?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 22, 2023, 02:00:00 pm
Because Cartman is now is charge of feral bureaucracy,and he hates it when someone questions his "Authori-Tay."
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 02:02:01 pm
OceanGate co-founder says 'time window' for Titanic sub rescue may be longer than people think Chris Pandolfo
A co-founder of OceanGate Expeditions spoke out and gave reason to hope the five-man crew of the missing Titan submersible can still be rescued, including CEO Stockton Rush.
Guillermo Söhnlein founded OceanGate with Rush in 2009 to offer pricey deep-sea tours to the extremely wealthy in manned submersibles capable of diving up to 13,123 feet. Söhnlein left the company in 2013, turning it over to Rush and reducing his role to a minority shareholder, but the two have kept in touch and last spoke a couple of weeks before the ill-fated Titanic expedition.
In a statement posted on Facebook, Söhnlein broke his silence about the missing crew and encouraged the public and the media to remain hopeful for the crew's rescue and avoid speculation about what happened.
"For the past three days, I have watched from afar as hundreds of dedicated professionals worked tirelessly to find and rescue the crew of the research submersible, Titan, with which communication was lost during its science expedition to the wreck of the Titanic. The pilot is my co-founder and friend, Stockton Rush," Söhnlein wrote.
more https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/oceangate-co-founder-says-time-window-titanic-sub-rescue-may-be-longer-people-think
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 02:17:06 pm
Wife Of Missing Submersible Pilot Is Great-Great-Grandaughter Of Passengers Who Sank On Titanic
Brianna Lyman News and Commentary Writer June 22, 2023 9:28 AM ET Font Size:
The wife of the missing submersible pilot and OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush is a descendant of two first-class passengers who died during the Titanic sinking, records show, according to a report from The New York Times.
Wendy Rush is the great-great-granddaughter of Isidor Straus and his wife, Ida, were two first-class passengers on Titanic’s maiden voyage, according to The New York Times (NYT). Straus was a co-owner of the Macy’s department store.
The Straus’ tragic death was compounded by eyewitness accounts of their final moments. Survivors said Isidor refused to take a seat on the lifeboat so that women and children could escape instead. Ida said she would not leave her husband of more than 40 years alone. The two were last seen holding each other’s arms on the ship’s deck as it plunged into the ocean. Isidor’s body was found floating nearly two weeks after the wreck while Ida’s remains were never recovered, according to The NYT records from 1912.
Rush is a descendant of one of Straus’ daughters Minnie, who went on to marry Dr. Richard Weil, according to the NYT. Their son Richard Weil Jr., welcomed his own son and Rush’s father, Dr. Richard Weil III, according to the NYT, who then had Wendy.
more https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/22/wife-of-missing-submersible-pilot-is-great-great-grandaughter-of-passengers-who-sank-on-titanic/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 02:36:55 pm
Remote-operated vehicle reaches sea floor as frantic search for Titanic sub hits critical stage By Isabel Keane June 22, 2023 9:14am
The US Coast Guard said a remote-operated vehicle “reached the sea floor” and began searching for the missing Titanic submersible early Thursday — even though the officials believe the sub has likely run out of oxygen.
“The Canadian vessel Horizon Arctic has deployed an ROV that has reached the sea floor and began its search for the missing sub,” the agency said.
It added that “The French vessel L’Atalante is preparing their ROV to enter the water.”
The accelerating search efforts continued Thursday even as the sub likely ran out of oxygen, by officials’ calculations, at about 7:08 a.m.
When it took off Sunday, the sub carried 96 hours of oxygen for the crew of five, though experts have cautioned that their initial estimates may be inexact.
The US Coast Guard said a remote-operated vehicle “has reached the sea floor” and began searching for the missing Titanic submersible early Thursday.
Rear Adm. John Mauger of the US Coast Guard told the “Today” show the search efforts would continue at full force throughout the day as the Magellan “working class” remotely operated vehicle joins the search.
The vehicle, or ROV, has advanced capabilities that include a manipulator arm capable of lifting a hull point to the surface of the water, NBC reported, citing a prior interview with Explorers Club president Richard Garriott, who criticized the Coast Guard for not utilizing the Magellan ROV sooner.
Responding to that criticism, Mauger noted: “We really had to start from scratch and bring all the capability that was available to bear on this problem.”
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/remote-operated-vehicle-reaches-sea-floor-amid-search-for-titanic-sub/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: American Girl on June 22, 2023, 02:44:46 pm
Something is definitely amiss, or this is a distraction. I can't quite pinpoint it yet but I'm sure we will figure it out in time 💥
This was probably a distraction from Durham and Schiff. There probably is no sub.
Except it's a coffin that kills you slowly in the worst way.
If they were "lucky" the craft had a hull breach or a fire. If they got stuck, well, I hope they were able to pray together and comfort each other with a little hope before the air ran out.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Polly Ticks on June 22, 2023, 03:23:53 pm
Quote
Brit. Billionaire Passenger's Stepson ... ATTENDS BLINK-182 SHOW DURING RESCUE MISSION
The clock's ticking for rescuers to find the 5 people missing on a sub aimed at exploring the Titanic wreckage ... but that's not stopping the stepson of one of the passengers from enjoying his favorite band, Blink-182.
British billionaire explorer, Hamish Harding, is among those onboard OceanGate Expeditions' Titan, a carbon-fiber submersible. Harding's stepson, Brian Szasz, [...] was attending a Blink-182 show in San Diego, posting a pic of himself outside the venue.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Free Vulcan on June 22, 2023, 03:30:18 pm
What they won't tell you is that it was Bat Boy and Elvis that pulled them up from the deep and used their powers to put them in the iceberg.
Don't believe the lies, there is a conspiracy to suppress the truth here.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 22, 2023, 03:35:05 pm
The world's first all nude town and I just turned 70. What a pity.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 03:54:08 pm
USCGNortheast @USCGNortheast · 5m A debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information. 1/2
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 03:54:51 pm
Josh Benson @WFLAJosh · 5m BREAKING. A debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information. (USCG Northeast) #titanic #titan
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 22, 2023, 03:55:10 pm
"It might be distasteful being here but my family would want me to be at the Blink-182 show as it’s my favorite band and music helps me in difficult times!♥️🙏🏽"
Bless his little snowflake heart.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 03:56:42 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 03:58:02 pm
Instant News Alerts @InstaNewsAlerts · 37s #BREAKING: U.S. Coast Guard says debris has been found by a remotely operated vehicle in the search for missing Titanic submersible. (Sky News)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 04:07:03 pm
Nothing confirmed yet..but looks grim
Presser at 2pm central
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 04:08:15 pm
Coast Guard announces 3 p.m. ET press conference following 'debris field' discovery
The Coast Guard has scheduled a press conference for 3 p.m. ET in Boston, Massachusetts following the announcement that an underwater "debris field" has been found in the search for OceanGate's missing Titan submarine, which vanished Sunday with five people onboard.
Posted by Greg Norman Fox News
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 04:08:54 pm
Coast Guard says 'debris field' found by underwater robot in search for missing Titan sub
The Coast Guard has announced Thursday that a "debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic.
"Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information," it added.
Underwater remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) were deployed Thursday morning to search the Atlantic Ocean floor for OceanGate's Titan submarine, which vanished Sunday morning with five passengers onboard.
The Coast Guard earlier said the "Canadian vessel Horizon Arctic has deployed an ROV that has reached the sea floor and began its search for the missing sub."
The French vessel L'Atalante also deployed their ROV, it added.
The Titan submarine vanished Sunday morning with five people onboard: OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, French mariner Paul-Henry Nargeolet, British businessman and explorer Hamish Harding, Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood and his son Sulaiman Dawood.
The oxygen inside the Titan was estimated by the Coast Guard to run out on Thursday morning.
Posted by Greg Norman
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 04:32:23 pm
Someone correct me if I am wrong,and this is VERY possible,but in a situation like that with high-pressure (ocean depths) pushing against a steel "egg" that has lost all it's oxygen (force to push back against the sea pressure),it will implode,resulting in scattered debris near the implosion.
Is this correct?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 04:52:44 pm
Someone correct me if I am,and this is VERY possible,but in a situation like that with high-pressure (ocean depths) pushing against a steel "egg" that has lost all it's oxygen (force to push back against the sea pressure),it will implode,resulting in scattered debris near the implosion.
Is this correct?
It wouldn't have been the result of running out of fresh oxygen - the oxygen is still in the submersible, it's just been converted into CO2 - but is most likely the result of some other event. It could have been something as simple as a slight dent on the outer surface that escaped detection at the surface of the ocean. Once the submersible gets down to depth, even minor asymmetries in the pressure vessel can result in a catastrophic failure.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 22, 2023, 04:55:40 pm
It wouldn't have been the result of running out of fresh oxygen - the oxygen is still in the submersible, it's just been converted into CO2 - but is most likely the result of some other event. It could have been something as simple as a slight dent on the outer surface that escaped detection at the surface of the ocean. Once the submersible gets down to depth, even minor asymmetries in the pressure vessel can result in a catastrophic failure.
CO2 exerts the same external pressures as oxygen in situations like this?
Once again,I am asking because I don't know. Hell,I hadn't even considered it one way or the other.
The air pressure inside the vessel is tiny compared to the forces outside (about 400 to 1) and has little effect on whether it collapses or not.
The tube section was carbon fiber composite. Very strong for its weight but when it fails, it fails completely.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 22, 2023, 05:11:50 pm
I almost hope we find out they died quickly and early in a catastrophic event. The thought of these souls trapped at the bottom of the sea counting down the hours to death is nearly unbearable.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 22, 2023, 05:12:31 pm
I almost hope we find out they died quickly and early in a catastrophic event. The thought of these souls trapped at the bottom of the sea counting down the hours to death is nearly unbearable.
Same.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: deb on June 22, 2023, 05:17:52 pm
I almost hope we find out they died quickly and early in a catastrophic event. The thought of these souls trapped at the bottom of the sea counting down the hours to death is nearly unbearable.
My hope as well.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 22, 2023, 05:18:02 pm
"It might be distasteful being here but my family would want me to be at the Blink-182 show as it’s my favorite band and music helps me in difficult times!♥️🙏🏽"[/i]
I almost hope we find out they died quickly and early in a catastrophic event. The thought of these souls trapped at the bottom of the sea counting down the hours to death is nearly unbearable.
Agreed. God rest their souls.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 22, 2023, 05:23:29 pm
The air pressure inside the vessel is tiny compared to the forces outside (about 400 to 1) and has little effect on whether it collapses or not.
The tube section was carbon fiber composite. Very strong for its weight but when it fails, it fails completely.
Yup.
I'm not sure if the pressure differentials are exactly the same, but here is what happens to a railroad tanker car when it's subjected to vaccuum inside with pressure relief valves blocked.
Keep in mind, this is just what the ordinary sea-level atmosphere can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz95_VvTxZM
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Free Vulcan on June 22, 2023, 05:27:43 pm
And it's assumed they even came close to desired depth. It could have ripped well above and the debris goes straight to the bottom.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 22, 2023, 05:29:12 pm
I'm not sure if the pressure differentials are exactly the same, but here is what happens to a railroad tanker car when it's subjected to vaccuum inside with pressure relief valves blocked.
Keep in mind, this is just what the ordinary sea-level atmosphere can do:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 22, 2023, 05:29:22 pm
A "debris field" has been discovered in the search for Titan - with a rescue expert telling Sky News that the missing sub's landing frame and rear cover have been found.
I would THINK that the people monitoring the dive from the dive boat would have known how deep they were when they lost contact.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 22, 2023, 05:32:34 pm
Just to give some perspective.
There are 144 square inches in a square foot. So a force of 5500 lbs per square inch is 792,000 lbs per square foot. 10 feet square is 100 times that...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 22, 2023, 05:34:09 pm
There are 144 square inches in a square foot. So a force of 5500 lbs per square inch is 792,000 lbs per square foot. 10 square feet is 100 times that...
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Free Vulcan on June 22, 2023, 05:37:31 pm
I would THINK that the people monitoring the dive from the dive boat would have known how deep they were when they lost contact.
From my understanding they had no support team or monitoring. If they did it seemed minimal.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 05:40:31 pm
Square profile picture BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking · 9m Titanic sub's "landing frame and a rear cover" among the debris found, dive expert and friend of passengers tells BBC https://bbc.in/3NpsdOF
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 05:43:01 pm
Coast Guard announces 3 p.m. ET press conference following 'debris field' discovery
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 22, 2023, 05:43:53 pm
So an 11.5 foot square area with 5500 PSI on it would be the equivalent of the entire weight of the Titanic pressing against it...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DCPatriot on June 22, 2023, 05:44:27 pm
If any Briefer had told me back in 2009 that in 2023 the Republic itself would be hanging by a thread.
Recall when they warned us that elderly White people are being grouped as potential terror threats...White veterans, etc..
We all laughed.
Nobody's laughing right now...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: deb on June 22, 2023, 05:44:52 pm
Eternal Father, strong to save, Whose arm does bind the restless wave, Who bids the mighty ocean deep Its own appointed limits keep; O hear us when we cry to Thee For those in peril on the sea.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 05:51:21 pm
Sudden implosion may have been the most merciful of deaths. Most likely, if it happened at the point at which contact was lost, the effects would have been almost instantaneous, and their bodies destroyed before their brains could register anything as pain.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 05:54:43 pm
Eternal Father, strong to save, Whose arm does bind the restless wave, Who bids the mighty ocean deep Its own appointed limits keep; O hear us when we cry to Thee For those in peril on the sea.
Amen :crying:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 05:58:34 pm
The only monitoring was the sub sent a ping to the launching ship every 15 minutes. Just under 2 hours in it stopped pinging.
My guess is they broke up somewhere mid-dive.
Based on that, I've seen computations estimating that they would have been about 4,500 to 5,500 feet below the surface. At that depth, a catatrophic implosion would have been over in milliseconds.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 22, 2023, 06:18:47 pm
If any Briefer had told me back in 2009 that in 2023 the Republic itself would be hanging by a thread.
Recall when they warned us that elderly White people are being grouped as potential terror threats...White veterans, etc..
We all laughed.
Nobody's laughing right now...
Glad you like the tag lines @DCPatriot I'm certainly not laughing.
When I was in a foreign land fighting Communists at age 20 in never once occurred to me that I would spend my declining years fighting them at home but here I am doing exactly that.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 22, 2023, 06:19:58 pm
Based on that, I've seen computations estimating that they would have been about 4,500 to 5,500 feet below the surface. At that depth, a catatrophic implosion would have been over in milliseconds.
:yowsa: And mercifully so.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 06:22:53 pm
It was fast; almost certainly too fast for them to feel anything.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 06:53:10 pm
OceanGate says in a new statement that they believe the passengers of the Titanic submersible have “sadly been lost."
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 22, 2023, 06:55:31 pm
BREAKING: OceanGate, which operated the submersible touring the Titanic just released a statement:
“We now believe that our CEO Stockton Rush, Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman Dawood, Hamish Harding, and Paul-Henri Nargeolet, have sadly been lost,” the company said in a statement.
“These men were true explorers who shared a distinct spirit of adventure, and a deep passion for exploring and protecting the world’s oceans,” according to the statement. “Our hearts are with these five souls and every member of their families during this tragic time. We grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew.”
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 06:56:26 pm
OceanGate confirms passengers on board missing submersible 'have been lost'
OceanGate Expeditions, the company behind the missing Titanic tourist submersible confirmed Thursday afternoon that the passengers on board are believed to have "sadly been lost."
"We now believe that our CEO Stockton Rush, Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman Dawood, Hamish Harding, and Paul-Henri Nargeolet, have sadly been lost," OceanGate said in a statement.
"These men were true explorers who shared a distinct spirit of adventure, and a deep passion for exploring and protecting the world’s oceans. Our hearts are with these five souls and every member of their families during this tragic time. We grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew."
"This is an extremely sad time for our dedicated employees who are exhausted and grieving deeply over this loss. The entire OceanGate family is deeply grateful for the countless men and women from multiple organizations of the international community who expedited wide-ranging resources and have worked so very hard on this mission. We appreciate their commitment to finding these five explorers, and their days and nights of tireless work in support of our crew and their families."
"This is a very sad time for the entire explorer community, and for each of the family members of those lost at sea. We respectfully ask that the privacy of these families be respected during this most painful time."
The statement came after the U.S. Coast Guard confirmed Thursday that a "debris field" has been found in the search for the missing submersible.
Posted by Bradford Betz Fox News
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 22, 2023, 07:01:50 pm
Brit. Billionaire Passenger's Stepson ... ATTENDS BLINK-182 SHOW DURING RESCUE MISSION
The strange case of Brian Szasz, stepson of a Titanic submarine billionaire
Everyone is piling on this oddball for his bizarre posts June 21, 2023 | 5:15 pm Katherine Dee
The internet thinks Brian Szasz is a “piece of shit.” Even Cardi B has weighed in on the stepson of Hamish Harding, one of the billionaires currently on the missing OceanGate submarine that was headed to the site of the Titanic wreckage. Cardi “clapped back” at a Facebook post where Szasz explained his decision to attend a Blink-182 concert in the wake of his stepfather’s disappearance (in case you’re curious, the reason he gave was that seeing his favorite band helps him cope).
It wasn’t just the 37-year-old’s — yes, you read that correctly, thirty-seven — idiosyncratic defense of his concert-going that set the mob off, though. Szasz is a strange person — to put it lightly. His online behavior is cringe-inducing at best, potentially dangerous at worst: last year, he was detained on cyberstalking and harassment charges. Allegedly he threatened to “shoot up” an EDM festival, claims that a number of Indian websites have deigned to write up.
Szasz also has high-functioning autism; something that in our age of “awareness” and “sensitivity,” (or even just obsessive information gathering) has mysteriously been lost in the wash. ... The Spectator (https://thespectator.com/topic/brian-szasz-submarine-stepson-blink-182-online-attention/?twclid=23jni2ocwg36uhftizvgde4lc7)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 07:20:26 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 22, 2023, 07:25:39 pm
Sad. Bless those that lost their lives and prayers up for their families.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: berdie on June 22, 2023, 08:09:58 pm
I am in awe that the rescuers were able to find debris of a small vehicle in an area that large. That's pretty darn impressive.
Hopefully as has already been posted...it was a quick demise for all on board.
Since I had posted earlier that I would have loved to be on one on these "tours" (it pays to be poor) I will say this one strange thing. I hope they got to see a glimpse of the Titanic before they went poof.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 22, 2023, 08:12:03 pm
At least it was basically instantaneous, from the sounds of it.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Idiot on June 22, 2023, 08:12:03 pm
I am in awe that the rescuers were able to find debris of a small vehicle in an area that large. That's pretty darn impressive.
Hopefully as has already been posted...it was a quick demise for all on board.
Since I had posted earlier that I would have loved to be on one on these "tours" (it pays to be poor) I will say this one strange thing. I hope they got to see a glimpse of the Titanic before they went poof.
Kind of sounded like they were halfway there when it imploded. So I doubt they got to "see" the Titanic. Very, very sad.
I still don't understand why people would pay $250,000 to look through a tiny glass window at the Titanic, when there are wonderful high definition pictures of the wreckage to be found. Oh well, what do I know.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 08:22:25 pm
Kind of sounded like they were halfway there when it imploded. So I doubt they got to "see" the Titanic. Very, very sad.
I still don't understand why people would pay $250,000 to look through a tiny glass window at the Titanic, when there are wonderful high definition pictures of the wreckage to be found. Oh well, what do I know.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: bigheadfred on June 22, 2023, 08:29:39 pm
Kind of sounded like they were halfway there when it imploded. So I doubt they got to "see" the Titanic. Very, very sad.
I still don't understand why people would pay $250,000 to look through a tiny glass window at the Titanic, when there are wonderful high definition pictures of the wreckage to be found. Oh well, what do I know.
@Kamaji recently posted a picture of the dark side of the moon - bathed in sunlight. Sure saved me a trip.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 22, 2023, 08:31:53 pm
Quote
I still don't understand why people would pay $250,000 to look through a tiny glass window at the Titanic, when there are wonderful high definition pictures of the wreckage to be found.
I've had similar thoughts of the folks who fork over $50,000 or so to climb Mt. Everest, especially after reading Jon Krakauer's "Into Thin Air."
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 08:31:55 pm
@Kamaji recently posted a picture of the dark side of the moon - bathed in sunlight. Sure saved me a trip.
Me too!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 08:43:02 pm
Titanic sub passengers died instantly in ‘catastrophic implosion’ as wreckage from doomed vessel discovered on ocean floor
By Isabel Keane and Andy Tillett June 22, 2023
The Titan submersible carrying five tourists, including two billionaires, suffered a “catastrophic implosion” on its trip to view the wreckage of the Titanic, the US Coast Guard announced Thursday.
Debris from the wreckage discovered on the ocean floor Thursday is “consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber,” effectively meaning the sub was crushed under the weight of the sea at some point after it lost contact with its surface vessel on Sunday.
US Coast Guard officials said five major pieces of debris from the OceanGate vessel were found 1,600 feet from the 1912 shipwreck.
It is currently unknown what could have caused the implosion or when, as the sub made it’s journey to the ocean floor 12,500ft below.
The Coast Guard added they “don’t have an answer for prospects of recovering the bodies,” pointing out the bottom of the ocean is an incredibly unforgiving environment to both search and recover debris from.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 22, 2023, 09:19:39 pm
19-year-old Titan passenger was ‘terrified’ before trip, his aunt says
Quote
In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the 19-year-old university student accompanying his father on the expedition expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said Thursday in an interview.
Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he "wasn't very up for it" and felt "terrified" about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic.
But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate's 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father's Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Fishrrman on June 22, 2023, 09:35:28 pm
Jack wrote: "I still don't understand why people would pay $250,000 to look through a tiny glass window at the Titanic, when there are wonderful high definition pictures of the wreckage to be found."
To which mountaineer replied: "I've had similar thoughts of the folks who fork over $50,000 or so to climb Mt. Everest, especially after reading Jon Krakauer's "Into Thin Air.""
Climbing Mt. Everest has become almost commonplace these days, with whole groups going up at once. And the price of a guided tour @ around $50k is "within reach" of much of the upper-middle-class.
But going down in a submarine to view the actual remains of the Titanic? Now, THAT's a trip to take once Everest has become passe.
And not many riffraff to worry about, at $250k a pop.
Except... they haven't got all the bugs worked out yet...
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 09:42:16 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 22, 2023, 09:45:40 pm
Titanic families slam ‘disgusting’ tours — shipwreck should be treated as ‘graveyard’ By Natalie O'Neill June 22, 2023 3:49pm
Relatives of people aboard the ill-fated Titanic cruise liner, which sank in 1912, say tourist trips to the shipwreck site — like those offered by the missing OceanGate Titan sub — are “disgusting” and disrespectful to those who perished in the disaster.
The wreckage should be treated like an underwater “graveyard” of the 1,496 who died, not a “Disneyland” for adventure-seeking tourists, the family members told the Daily Beast.
“They died a horribly tragic death. Just leave the bodies resting,” said John Locascio, 69, whose uncles, Alberto and Sebastiano Peracchio, died in the tragedy.
Locascio said his uncles were working as young waiters on the ship in April 1912 when it hit an iceberg and sank.
He called it shameful that OceanGate has been capitalizing on visits to the sacred site.
“I think it’s disgusting, quite honestly,” he said. “What do you want to look at, you want to ogle?”
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/titanic-shipwreck-should-not-be-used-for-tours-family-says/
I am assuming John Locascio means his great or great great uncles..
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 22, 2023, 10:00:46 pm
The movie 'Titanic' starring Leo DeCaprio and Kate Winslet was a major hit. It brought about the fascination of a sunken ship. I've seen the movie several times but I'm not so fascinated by it's sinking that I would want to go beneath to the depths of water that the wreckage is in. Historians have been down to the area several times and there have been documentaries about it with very good quality pictures. I fail to see how one could be so fascinated by the wreckage to take such a risk and spend $250k as well.
Let the graveyard be left alone.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 22, 2023, 10:06:16 pm
Titanic families slam ‘disgusting’ tours — shipwreck should be treated as ‘graveyard’
The wreckage should be treated like an underwater “graveyard” of the 1,496 who died, not a “Disneyland” for adventure-seeking tourists, the family members told the Daily Beast.
It appears the graveyard inhabitants were able to make the same point on their own, without help from their living relatives.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 22, 2023, 10:14:38 pm
Why does the Titanic have a cult following but other ships like the Lusitania and Andrea Doria don’t seem to be as fascinating?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: berdie on June 22, 2023, 10:16:39 pm
Titanic sub passengers died instantly in ‘catastrophic implosion’ as wreckage from doomed vessel discovered on ocean floor
By Isabel Keane and Andy Tillett June 22, 2023
The Coast Guard added they “don’t have an answer for prospects of recovering the bodies,” pointing out the bottom of the ocean is an incredibly unforgiving environment to both search and recover debris from.
As Gordon Lightfoot wrote...Superior (or the ocean) it is said doesn't give up its dead.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 22, 2023, 10:20:00 pm
The lures and dangers of diving to the Andrea Doria
Quote
Around 50 people lost their lives when the Italian ocean liner Andrea Doria collided with another ship off the coast of Nantucket on July 25, 1956. But since then, as many as 16 people have died diving down to the wreck of the luxury vessel.
Snip
The allure of the Andrea Doria is its artifacts, such as the ship’s china, that divers can find and keep, according to Crowell.
Titanic families slam ‘disgusting’ tours — shipwreck should be treated as ‘graveyard’ By Natalie O'Neill June 22, 2023 3:49pm
Relatives of people aboard the ill-fated Titanic cruise liner, which sank in 1912, say tourist trips to the shipwreck site — like those offered by the missing OceanGate Titan sub — are “disgusting” and disrespectful to those who perished in the disaster.
The wreckage should be treated like an underwater “graveyard” of the 1,496 who died, not a “Disneyland” for adventure-seeking tourists, the family members told the Daily Beast.
“They died a horribly tragic death. Just leave the bodies resting,” said John Locascio, 69, whose uncles, Alberto and Sebastiano Peracchio, died in the tragedy.
Locascio said his uncles were working as young waiters on the ship in April 1912 when it hit an iceberg and sank.
He called it shameful that OceanGate has been capitalizing on visits to the sacred site.
“I think it’s disgusting, quite honestly,” he said. “What do you want to look at, you want to ogle?”
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/titanic-shipwreck-should-not-be-used-for-tours-family-says/
I am assuming John Locascio means his great or great great uncles..
So what does he say about the artifacts that have been retrieved and made into a traveling exhibit? I've been to the one that toured here several years ago...it wasn't cheap. And super interesting.
Yes, it is a graveyard. But people go everyday to put flowers on their loved one's grave. Historians go to old graveyards and take pictures of the headstones. This was a historic event. So I don't buy the graveyard defense anymore than I buy that it is wrong to go to any graveyard.
As I said...I would have loved to see what is left of the Titanic. I might have entertained the idea of Everest at one time. Or space. But sadly, I'm too tired , infirm and broke, lol.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 22, 2023, 10:49:22 pm
I dunno about that. Gordon Lightfoot made the Edmund Fitzgerald an international issue when he came out with the album that had that song on it.
And the song deserved every bit of the attention it got. I can't imagine anyone doing a better job of writing and performing a song about something as tragic as a shipwreck.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 22, 2023, 10:59:25 pm
So apparently the implosion was heard by the mother surface ship but they didn't want to tell anyone just in case it wasn't what they thought they heard and wanted people to search for it.
They've got some explaining to do...
What a waste of time and resources.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 22, 2023, 11:02:04 pm
So apparently the implosion was heard by the mother surface ship but they didn't want to tell anyone just in case it wasn't what they thought they heard and wanted people to search for it.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 22, 2023, 11:03:47 pm
A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission. https://twitter.com/JacquiHeinrich/status/1672003221223616513
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2023, 11:04:01 pm
So apparently the implosion was heard by the mother surface ship but they didn't want to tell anyone just in case it wasn't what they thought they heard and wanted people to search for it.
They've got some explaining to do...
What a waste of time and resources.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 22, 2023, 11:07:40 pm
I think there was also a Titanic movie made in the 50s? 60s?
I suppose you all are right about this. It’s like going to the Moon or Mars. As much as I’d like to explore space thr idea of dying like in the Challenger or like Gus Grissom. It’s a hard pass
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 22, 2023, 11:10:15 pm
A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission. https://twitter.com/JacquiHeinrich/status/1672003221223616513
So much for it being top secret.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 22, 2023, 11:30:11 pm
They did out out of respect for the families. You do NOT tell a family a loved one has died until you have 100 percent verification they are dead.
I don't think that was the reason...If they knew there was an implosion the families should have been told instead of constantly reporting the *banging noises* giving all the families false hope for several days....sounds like they were intentionally lying to them.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 23, 2023, 12:01:50 am
I think there was also a Titanic movie made in the 50s? 60s?
I suppose you all are right about this. It’s like going to the Moon or Mars. As much as I’d like to explore space thr idea of dying like in the Challenger or like Gus Grissom. It’s a hard pass
Yes. A Night to Remember, which is generally considered the most accurate depiction to survive to the present day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Night_to_Remember_(1958_film)
THE most accurate, however, probably goes to Saved from the Titanic, a now-lost silent film actually written by and starring one of the survivors of the disaster, reprising her role. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saved_from_the_Titanic
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 23, 2023, 12:17:34 am
The movie 'Titanic' starring Leo DeCaprio and Kate Winslet was a major hit. It brought about the fascination of a sunken ship. I've seen the movie several times but I'm not so fascinated by it's sinking that I would want to go beneath to the depths of water that the wreckage is in. Historians have been down to the area several times and there have been documentaries about it with very good quality pictures. I fail to see how one could be so fascinated by the wreckage to take such a risk and spend $250k as well.
Let the graveyard be left alone.
:amen:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Polly Ticks on June 23, 2023, 12:39:59 am
No wonder the Coast Guard knew exactly where to send the ROV 2.5 miles below and an area 2x size of Connecticut
Yeah, I kind of wondered about that, too.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 23, 2023, 12:54:06 am
I dunno about that. Gordon Lightfoot made the Edmund Fitzgerald an international issue when he came out with the album that had that song on it.
And the song deserved every bit of the attention it got. I can't imagine anyone doing a better job of writing and performing a song about something as tragic as a shipwreck.
It was a local news story to me, and I was just getting started radio announcing. This was months, at least, before the song. :shrug:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Free Vulcan on June 23, 2023, 01:17:23 am
If everyone didn't understand the kind of ruthlessness we have right now in DC, they do now.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: NavyCanDo on June 23, 2023, 01:26:01 am
At 2 miles down its a more hostile and deadly environment than the surface of Mars. Yet without any certification, a vessel can be built to take paying customers down there. The life jacket you wear kayaking or your baby's car seat has more certification and multi tier level of authorization before they can be approved for use.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: NavyCanDo on June 23, 2023, 01:30:30 am
Woke up this morning with this thought. What would I read first on social media? Someone claiming the exhaustive search is Racist? Or will it be a Qanon conspiracy nut claiming it's all planned. The Qanon nut won. Wasn't on social media 5 min when found such a comment.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 23, 2023, 02:27:16 am
At 2 miles down its a more hostile and deadly environment than the surface of Mars. Yet without any certification, a vessel can be built to take paying customers down there. The life jacket you wear kayaking or your baby's car seat has more certification and multi tier level of authorization before they can be approved for use.
It kind of gives me hope that maybe the free market is not dead after all.
There are probably barbers and hair dressers and handymen, and all kinds of other people out in the world doing things without "certification." The people who do business with them know what they are getting into. These people knew full well the risks of this particular adventure. It is a terrible tragedy, but it would be more of a tragedy if this resulted in new laws that stifled innovation and peoples' freedom to enter into contracts.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Hoodat on June 23, 2023, 03:12:03 am
I think there was also a Titanic movie made in the 50s? 60s?
I suppose you all are right about this. It’s like going to the Moon or Mars. As much as I’d like to explore space thr idea of dying like in the Challenger or like Gus Grissom. It’s a hard pass
@Gefn You are correct. The film version of Walter Lord's book A Night to Remember came out in 1958.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 23, 2023, 04:55:36 am
It kind of gives me hope that maybe the free market is not dead after all.
There are probably barbers and hair dressers and handymen, and all kinds of other people out in the world doing things without "certification." The people who do business with them know what they are getting into. These people knew full well the risks of this particular adventure. It is a terrible tragedy, but it would be more of a tragedy if this resulted in new laws that stifled innovation and peoples' freedom to enter into contracts.
Nonsense. The average person is quite able to discern whether a self-proclaimed barber is potentially lethal; that same person is not able to evaluate whether a sophisticated pressure vessel is either manufactured as promised or maintained as promised.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 12:23:25 pm
Terrifying TikTok videos depict what may have happened during Titanic sub’s ‘catastrophic implosion’
By Steve Janoski June 22, 2023
Bone-chilling TikTok clips show what the “catastrophic implosion” of the Titan submersible might have looked like — a terrifying re-enactment of a scenario that killed five passengers in the North Atlantic’s treacherous depths.
Implosions happen shockingly fast, as demonstrated by an old animation of a railroad tanker suddenly collapsing.
TikTok animators extrapolated what that might have looked like underwater.
In one clip, posted by user @sincerelybootz, a vessel that looks like a military sub suddenly flattens out, curls into a taco-shaped piece of metal, and then rips apart — leaving behind nothing but air bubbles and shrapnel.
“It’s very instantaneous as far as death when it comes to any lives that may be on board,” the narrator states.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: goatprairie on June 23, 2023, 01:21:07 pm
From what I've been reading apparently they made this thing on the cheap using carbon fiber isntead of steel. According to James Cameron of the movie "Titanic" and (believe it or not) a certified expert on these things carbon fiber is far more susceptible to implosion than steel. Moral of story: just because somebody knows more or a lot more than you do about certain things does not make them an infallible expert. The guy who built the Titan and took those people down to their deaths obviously didn't know nearly as much as he thought he did.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 01:28:43 pm
Titanic sub implosion detected by Navy hours after losing communications, US official says
By Patrick Reilly June 22, 2023
The Titan submersible implosion that killed all five passengers was heard by a top-secret US Navy acoustic detection system hours after it began its doomed descent to the Titanic wreck, according to a report.
The Navy began using the system, which is used to locate enemy submarines, to listen for the Titan almost immediately after it lost contact with its mothership on Sunday, a US defense official told the Wall Street Journal.
Shortly after the Navy began listening, it heard what it believed to be an implosion coming from the area where debris from the vessel was found on Thursday.
“The US Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior official told the outlet.
“While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission,” they added.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: American Girl on June 23, 2023, 01:29:18 pm
I tried to tell somebody that the explosion had to be heard by our acoustical sensing devices and that Naval Intelligence is waiting for confirmation before revealing it. I was accused of making it up.
The present circumstances are deeply concerning. If we were to gain a comprehensive understanding of the long-standing actions undertaken by governmental agencies such as the CIA, FBI, and the pharmaceutical industry, it would undoubtedly provoke widespread civic unrest. It is apparent that a significant magnitude of nefarious activities remains concealed from public scrutiny.
Titanic sub implosion detected by Navy hours after losing communications, US official says
By Patrick Reilly June 22, 2023
“While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission,” they added.
A delay by US officials in approving paperwork is hampering the mission to find a submersible that has five people trapped on board, an advisor to the company that owns the sub said.
Nonsense. The average person is quite able to discern whether a self-proclaimed barber is potentially lethal; that same person is not able to evaluate whether a sophisticated pressure vessel is either manufactured as promised or maintained as promised.
Nonsense yourself! Many of us are perfectly capable of deciding whether or not we want to plunk down our own money and take a trip at our own risk. We don't need a damned nanny!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 23, 2023, 02:02:32 pm
If everyone didn't understand the kind of ruthlessness we have right now in DC, they do now.
That can't be stated enough times. Those in DC are ruthless and they will stop at nothing to accomplish their agenda. There was no reason to keep this investigation going, take up air time on the news other than it was a great opportunity to take the focus off of Brandon and his crack-head son.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: libertybele on June 23, 2023, 02:07:20 pm
Not everything is a conspiracy and therefore this isn't one being created; but rather look at the fact that the navy knew of the implosion yet continued their charade of search and rescue long after they knew what had happened.
Why? Because they wanted to interrupt regular TV? Because they needed to justify their jobs? Because DC saw this as a perfect opportunity to take focus off of Brandon & Co????
We know that DC is corrupt. We know that the DOJ is corrupt. So, the answer becomes obvious when you begin to connect the dots.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 02:10:48 pm
Nonsense yourself! Many of us are perfectly capable of deciding whether or not we want to plunk down our own money and take a trip at our own risk. We don't need a damned nanny!
Nonsense.
Unless you are a trained submersible designer/manufacturer, you have no means of evaluating whether that submersible was capable of descending to the depths it went to, nor do you have the ability to evaluate the maintenance schedules and logs to discern whether maintenance has been adequate, nor whether there were defects discovered that should concern you.
There is a very good reason why there are strong laws and regulations governing the construction, use, maintenance, and repair of large boilers, and it isn't because of some idiotic marxist conspiracy to deprive you of your right to use whatever type of boiler you please.
Prior to the regulation of the boiler industry, there were many very lethal boiler failures attributable to poor design or poor maintenance, none of which could have been detected by the average joe living in a building with such a boiler.
Unless you are a trained submersible designer/manufacturer, you have no means of evaluating whether that submersible was capable of descending to the depths it went to, nor do you have the ability to evaluate the maintenance schedules and logs to discern whether maintenance has been adequate, nor whether there were defects discovered that should concern you.
There is a very good reason why there are strong laws and regulations governing the construction, use, maintenance, and repair of large boilers, and it isn't because of some idiotic marxist conspiracy to deprive you of your right to use whatever type of boiler you please.
Prior to the regulation of the boiler industry, there were many very lethal boiler failures attributable to poor design or poor maintenance, none of which could have been detected by the average joe living in a building with such a boiler.
Uh-huh. Stand in your house that was constructed in accordance with a well-developed, comprehensive building code, the purpose of which was to save you from injury or death from a poorly constructed house, the defects of which you would almost certainly be unable to detect on your own. And typing on your computer, which is subject to comprehensive regulations regarding the levels of radiation it can emit, all to protect your health from dangers you could almost certainly not detect yourself.
So, go ahead and stand as you will; you're still standing on precisely the very things you denigrate.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 02:35:48 pm
‘Titanic’ director James Cameron slams search for missing sub as ‘nightmarish charade’
By Emily Crane June 23, 2023
“Titanic” director James Cameron has slammed the days-long search operation for the doomed Titan sub as a “nightmarish charade” — insisting he knew that the vessel had imploded just hours after it lost contact with the surface.
Cameron, a submersible pioneer who has made 33 trips of his own to the Titanic wreckage, told the BBC on Friday that he “felt in my bones” the Titan submersible had been lost soon after the news broke that the five people on board were missing.
The 68-year-old director said the subsequent hunt for the submersible — including the countdown of how much oxygen supply was left and that banging noises had been heard — “felt like a prolonged and nightmarish charade.”
“That was just a cruel, slow turn of the screw for four days as far as I’m concerned,” Cameron said. “Because I knew the truth on Monday morning.”
“For me, there was no doubt. I knew that sub was sitting exactly underneath its last known depth and position. That’s exactly where they found it,” he added.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 02:44:52 pm
Doomed Titanic sub CEO tried to sell cut-price tickets, saying it was ‘safer than crossing the street’
By Lee Brown June 23, 2023
A Las Vegas billionaire has revealed OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush tried to sell him cut-price tickets for the doomed Titanic dive — telling him it would be even safer than crossing the street.
Property financing tycoon Jay Bloom — a one-time business partner of late “Everwood” star Treat Williams — shared a series of text messages showing how Rush tried to sell him and his son, Sean, spots that eventually went to Shahzada Dawood, 48, and his son Sulaiman, 19.
As far back as April, Rush started pushing a “last-minute price” of $150,000 — a $100,000 discount from the usual $250,000.
That steep discount was offered after Bloom admitted he and his son were worried about the safety of the sub that imploded, killing Rush and his four wealthy Titanic tourists.
“My son’s friend researched what could go wrong and put a little scare in him,” Bloom texted the CEO in February. “He’s excited to go, but concerned about the danger.”
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: PeteS in CA on June 23, 2023, 03:19:12 pm
Carbon fiber composite materials are not "on the cheap". Carbon fiber composite materials have been used in high performance military aircraft since at least the mid-late 1970s (the F/A-18 and probably the F-16). Carbon fiber composite materials are high strength and light weight.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 23, 2023, 03:56:38 pm
Uh-huh. Stand in your house that was constructed in accordance with a well-developed, comprehensive building code, the purpose of which was to save you from injury or death from a poorly constructed house, the defects of which you would almost certainly be unable to detect on your own. And typing on your computer, which is subject to comprehensive regulations regarding the levels of radiation it can emit, all to protect your health from dangers you could almost certainly not detect yourself.
So, go ahead and stand as you will; you're still standing on precisely the very things you denigrate.
My house was constructed by me over forty years ago in an area where no such codes exist. Amazingly, it has hot and cold running water, flush toilets, and most everything a person needs. Realtors tell me often that if ever decide to sell PLEASE let me know first. I still don't need a damned NANNY!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 04:02:43 pm
My house was constructed by me over forty years ago in an area where no such codes exist. Amazingly, it has hot and cold running water, flush toilets, and most everything a person needs. Realtors tell me often that if ever decide to sell PLEASE let me know first. I still don't need a damned NANNY!
So, you were just born with an innate ability to do structural engineering?
And an innate ability to do plumbing, and electrical work?
If your house is over 40 years old, the realtors want the land, not the house. Sorry to break it to you.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 23, 2023, 04:04:14 pm
Not everything is a conspiracy and therefore this isn't one being created; but rather look at the fact that the navy knew of the implosion yet continued their charade of search and rescue long after they knew what had happened.
Why? Because they wanted to interrupt regular TV? Because they needed to justify their jobs? Because DC saw this as a perfect opportunity to take focus off of Brandon & Co????
We know that DC is corrupt. We know that the DOJ is corrupt. So, the answer becomes obvious when you begin to connect the dots.
Possibly checking with the Brass to make sure they would not be giving away anything not already common knowledge about the SOSUS net or other capabilities.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 23, 2023, 04:09:03 pm
Nonsense. The average person is quite able to discern whether a self-proclaimed barber is potentially lethal; that same person is not able to evaluate whether a sophisticated pressure vessel is either manufactured as promised or maintained as promised.
You walk into a barber shop for a haircut. There are 2 barbers. One has a perfectly styled look...the other look like he got caught in a buzz saw.
With whom do you make the appointment? :pondering:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 23, 2023, 04:15:14 pm
Terrifying TikTok videos depict what may have happened during Titanic sub’s ‘catastrophic implosion’
By Steve Janoski June 22, 2023
Bone-chilling TikTok clips show what the “catastrophic implosion” of the Titan submersible might have looked like — a terrifying re-enactment of a scenario that killed five passengers in the North Atlantic’s treacherous depths.
Implosions happen shockingly fast, as demonstrated by an old animation of a railroad tanker suddenly collapsing.
TikTok animators extrapolated what that might have looked like underwater.
In one clip, posted by user @sincerelybootz, a vessel that looks like a military sub suddenly flattens out, curls into a taco-shaped piece of metal, and then rips apart — leaving behind nothing but air bubbles and shrapnel.
“It’s very instantaneous as far as death when it comes to any lives that may be on board,” the narrator states.
Carbon fiber composite materials are not "on the cheap". Carbon fiber composite materials have been used in high performance military aircraft since at least the mid-late 1970s (the F/A-18 and probably the F-16). Carbon fiber composite materials are high strength and light weight.
The stresses endured by a vessel under 5500 PSI from every direction are not the same as the stresses endured by a wing on an aircraft.
Different application. Compared to a titanium pressure hull? Just my $0.02, but it isn't cheap if it doesn't work, especially if it gets you killed.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 23, 2023, 04:21:41 pm
Not everything is a conspiracy and therefore this isn't one being created; but rather look at the fact that the navy knew of the implosion yet continued their charade of search and rescue long after they knew what had happened.
Serious question: "Why would the Navy disclose some of their underseas capability when there were no lives to save,and POSSIBLY classified information about their underwater capability would be made public? After all the passengers were already dead,and they weren't going to get any deader if it took the general public a couple of days to find this out.
Frankly,I have no freaking idea WHY this was made public,and hope the officer responsible gets court-martialed.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 23, 2023, 04:24:38 pm
So, you were just born with an innate ability to do structural engineering?
And an innate ability to do plumbing, and electrical work?
Yes, I was. :cool:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 23, 2023, 04:27:19 pm
So who here believes the Navy's knowledge - or strong suspicion - that the vessel had imploded and its passengers annihilated was kept quiet to distract from R. Hunter Biden?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 04:27:29 pm
So who here believes the Navy's knowledge - or strong suspicion - that the vessel had imploded and its passengers annihilated was kept quiet to distract from R. Hunter Biden?
Me
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 23, 2023, 04:33:15 pm
So who here believes the Navy's knowledge - or strong suspicion - that the vessel had imploded and its passengers annihilated was kept quiet to distract from R. Hunter Biden?
I do...call me cynical but this has all the earmarks of *never let a crisis go to waste*....they took advantage of this tragedy to control all the news.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on June 23, 2023, 04:38:29 pm
I believe the sub imploded. There's a lot of water pressure at the depth. It's pretty stupid to descend 2.5 miles to the ocean floor in a tourist sub when many manned Navy subs can't safely reach that depth.
It would not have as much press if there weren't a couple of billionaires on that tin can.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 23, 2023, 04:38:46 pm
I do...call me cynical but this has all the earmarks of *never let a crisis go to waste*....they took advantage of this tragedy to control all the news.
Everything is not a conspiracy theory but when ALL the coincidences go in only one direction somethings up!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: bigheadfred on June 23, 2023, 04:41:45 pm
Caveat Emptor
I went to a punked barber once. I got a bad haircut, two tattoos and a lip ring.
I was born a democrat. When I cried I got what I wanted. But I quickly grew out of it.
I was a quick study. I only peed on a current bush one time.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: PeteS in CA on June 23, 2023, 04:47:42 pm
Got evidence?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: bigheadfred on June 23, 2023, 04:56:19 pm
P.S. A lot of people rely on sub contractors.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 23, 2023, 04:58:39 pm
So who here believes the Navy's knowledge - or strong suspicion - that the vessel had imploded and its passengers annihilated was kept quiet to distract from R. Hunter Biden?
Not to mention tapping sounds? Put me in, coach!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on June 23, 2023, 05:02:18 pm
I doubt the Navy wants to advertise the details of its underwater surveillance capabilities to America's enemies.
Plus, there are lots of noises under the ocean, many geological.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 23, 2023, 05:05:03 pm
That, and the story had all it takes to be a smokescreen for Hunter's problems. Drama, popular appeal, interest, etc. A few knocking sounds just help keep it going...even after the alleged detection of implosion.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 05:09:30 pm
I doubt the Navy wants to advertise the details of its underwater surveillance capabilities to America's enemies.
Plus, there are lots of noises under the ocean, many geological.
The U.S. government's hydrophone network has been known about for decades - at least in terms of its existence, if not specific details - and the Soviets/Russians most likely knew where a lot of the listening equipment was located.
That being said, these things are apparently extremely sensitive, and extremely good at discerning the acoustic signatures of various underwater mechanical failures from naturally-occurring sounds.
Even back in the 1960s, the equipment was apparently good enough that it was able record sounds from the Scorpion incident that allowed later researchers to identify various specific events, or likely events, in the course of that submarine's failure, sinking, and ultimate destuction from compressive implosion.
That was almost 60 years ago, and I'm quite sure the equipment has been updated a time or two since then, so it is entirely possible that the system, just set on its default recording procedures, was able to pick up the particular signature of the Titan's implosion.
Furthermore, the Navy apparently started reviewing the acoustic data shortly after they learned that the submersible was not responding to contacts, and detected that signature. They also apparently were able to use the acoustic data to start narrowing down the likely location of the debris field.
To me, the three question are (a) how confident were they in that identification, (b) how quickly did they convey that information to the company itself, and (c) why wasn't it disclosed to the public earlier than it was?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: PeteS in CA on June 23, 2023, 05:10:00 pm
So the goalpost is moved from "on the cheap" to carbon fiber composites being unsuitable for the application? That's an entirely different argument.
Back to the OP's silly claim, yeah, there was a sub, though now it's a gravesite.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 05:11:42 pm
So the goalpost is moved from "on the cheap" to carbon fiber composites being unsuitable for the application? That's an entirely different argument.
Back to the OP's silly claim, yeah, there was a sub, though now it's a gravesite.
What's a titanium pressure hull cost? I don't pretend to know, but I bet it is more expensive to make one rated for 5500PSI than to spin up a carbon fiber hull.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 05:15:28 pm
No doubt we'll learn all the gorey details of its manufacture, including reasons why other materials weren't considered, once the inevitable wrongful death suits are filed and litigated.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 23, 2023, 05:31:41 pm
Thinking about it the carbon fiber tube would have to be perfectly round in order for the forces to be balanced across the surface of the tube. If it goes oblong by a tiny amount it quickly fails. The two titanium end caps would keep the ends perfectly round but the center section was unbraced so that it was a completely open space for the passengers. That would seem to be the likely failure mechanism beyond accumulated fatigue causing stress fractures.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 23, 2023, 05:32:21 pm
Thinking about it the carbon fiber tube would have to be perfectly round in order for the forces to be balanced across the surface of the tube. If it goes oblong by a tiny amount it quickly fails. The two titanium end caps would keep the ends perfectly round but the center section was unbraced so that it was a completely open space for the passengers. That would seem to be the likely failure mechanism beyond accumulated fatigue causing stress fractures.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: PeteS in CA on June 23, 2023, 05:44:57 pm
No doubt we'll learn all the gorey details of its manufacture, including reasons why other materials weren't considered, once the inevitable wrongful death suits are filed and litigated.
At least one significant factor that attracted submersibles engineers to composites was weight (= buoyancy).
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Free Vulcan on June 23, 2023, 06:13:54 pm
I missed reading about that one. I have no explanation for it other than a human tapping on metal with a wrench or some other heavy metal object
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Fishrrman on June 23, 2023, 07:36:49 pm
Next time they'll get it right: (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/ce/51/29ce51ff5816eceefa0b257e251a4e13.jpg)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 07:54:44 pm
Read the ‘iron-clad’ death waiver that doomed Titanic sub tourists signed
By Marjorie Hernandez June 23, 2023
The five passengers who boarded the doomed OceanGate Titan submersible that imploded on its way to the wreck of the Titanic signed an iron-clad agreement that protects the company from any liability for what could happen to the vessel, including death.
The three-page document spells out the risks that passengers take when riding in the 23,000-pound Titan, including eye-popping wording such as how the craft “has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body and may be constructed of materials that have not been widely used on human occupied submersible.”
The vessel suffered a “catastrophic implosion” during its descent, instantly killing all five passengers aboard, according to the US Coast Guard, which is heading the recovery operation to bring debris from the Titan to the surface and figure out what went wrong.
The document, which was provided to a passenger last summer, also states that the signer would “assume full responsibility for the risk of bodily injury, disability, death and property damage due to the negligence of [OceanGate] while involved in the operation,” according to TMZ, which was first to publish it.
Everything needs an escape clause like that. You may die... we don't care.
True.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 23, 2023, 08:52:25 pm
Structural issues with Titan sub hull could have caused implosion: expert
By Emily Crane June 23, 2023
Structural issues with the doomed Titan sub’s hull could be among the causes of the “catastrophic implosion” that destroyed the vessel and killed all five people on board in the depths of the Atlantic, an expert told The Post.
Investigators were hunting for clues on Friday as to how and why the OceanGate-owned submersible suddenly fell apart as it was descending toward the wreck of the Titanic this week.
While authorities say it is too early to tell the cause of the deep-sea disaster, one expert pointed to possible failures of the sub’s hull — its main body — as a likely explanation.
Virginia Tech ocean engineering professor Stefano Brizzolara suggested the sub’s pressure hull could have had a defect that may have fractured under the pressure and sparked an implosion.
“It is difficult to say what caused the structural failure in this case, but any small material and geometric imperfection, misalignment of connection flanges, tightening torque of bolted connection may have started the structural collapse,” Brizzolara said.
The Titan’s hull was constructed from two different materials: carbon fiber-reinforced plastic and titanium.
Brizzolara said the carbon fiber element is “very prone to possible defects” and that it “exhibits a more fragile behavior” than other materials — meaning that when it fails, it can break into small fragments.
The expert said the Titan’s repeated voyages down to the wreckage of the ocean liner may have also caused the hull to “deform and shrink.”
“These repeated deformation cycles may have started some material defects in the [carbon reinforced plastic] or some permanent deformations or misalignment between the two parts of the hull that were built with two different materials, which deform in a different way,” he said.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: SZonian on June 23, 2023, 09:05:00 pm
Nah, you don't say? I thought it was a Kraken that got them... Carbon fiber's strength is in tension, not compression. Let's not forget that egoistic CEO bragging about hiring DEI types and young kids vs. experienced submariners/designers (aka "50 year old white guys").
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 23, 2023, 09:06:36 pm
Brizzolara said the carbon fiber element is “very prone to possible defects” and that it “exhibits a more fragile behavior” than other materials — meaning that when it fails, it can break into small fragments.
I can testify... When carbon fiber fails under load, it shatters.
I would think that it would derive extra strength from being part of the radius at the ends... But a tube does not have inherent strength... And there's a point about mating two different materials under pressure - Materials with much different reaction to that pressure.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 23, 2023, 09:15:59 pm
Does the waiver hold if it turns out the submarine company was negligent in the construction or maintenance of the submersible??
Given this (Copied from @Kamaji above):“has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body and may be constructed of materials that have not been widely used on human occupied submersible.” I would say that the answer is very likely Yes.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 23, 2023, 09:24:17 pm
I can testify... When carbon fiber fails under load, it shatters.
I would think that it would derive extra strength from being part of the radius at the ends... But a tube does not have inherent strength... And there's a point about mating two different materials under pressure - Materials with much different reaction to that pressure.
The middle of the tube furthest from the titanium round ends has to remain perfectly round while under huge external forces or it collapses. Once it deforms even slightly - it is over.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 23, 2023, 09:25:09 pm
Given this (Copied from @Kamaji above):“has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body and may be constructed of materials that have not been widely used on human occupied submersible.” I would say that the answer is very likely Yes.
Could he be said to have been defrauding them if he said it was safe?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Fishrrman on June 23, 2023, 09:25:37 pm
I'm wonderin' how much in assets OceanGate Expeditions has left to sue...?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: corbe on June 23, 2023, 09:28:59 pm
A look inside. https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1671869099691974657
If I understand...this sub has been down to the Titanic a couple of times. What went wrong this time?
Just for the record..I don't think this was a diversionary tactic for Hunter. I think there is a large section of the population that don't know who he is or why he needs any diversion. :laugh:
It has much more to do with our media and ratings. Think about hurricane coverage, kids trapped in caves and Baby Jessica.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 23, 2023, 10:11:09 pm
If I understand...this sub has been down to the Titanic a couple of times. What went wrong this time?
Just for the record..I don't think this was a diversionary tactic for Hunter. I think there is a large section of the population that don't know who he is or why he needs any diversion. :laugh:
It has much more to do with our media and ratings. Think about hurricane coverage, kids trapped in caves and Baby Jessica.
Repeated dives under extreme pressures cause small deformations and fatigue in the materials used. Once the failure threshold is reached - it is total failure. There is no in between.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Idiot on June 23, 2023, 10:24:40 pm
Read the ‘iron-clad’ death waiver that doomed Titanic sub tourists signed
By Marjorie Hernandez June 23, 2023
The five passengers who boarded the doomed OceanGate Titan submersible that imploded on its way to the wreck of the Titanic signed an iron-clad agreement that protects the company from any liability for what could happen to the vessel, including death.
The three-page document spells out the risks that passengers take when riding in the 23,000-pound Titan, including eye-popping wording such as how the craft “has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body and may be constructed of materials that have not been widely used on human occupied submersible.”
The vessel suffered a “catastrophic implosion” during its descent, instantly killing all five passengers aboard, according to the US Coast Guard, which is heading the recovery operation to bring debris from the Titan to the surface and figure out what went wrong.
The document, which was provided to a passenger last summer, also states that the signer would “assume full responsibility for the risk of bodily injury, disability, death and property damage due to the negligence of [OceanGate] while involved in the operation,” according to TMZ, which was first to publish it.
If I understand...this sub has been down to the Titanic a couple of times. What went wrong this time?
Just for the record..I don't think this was a diversionary tactic for Hunter. I think there is a large section of the population that don't know who he is or why he needs any diversion. :laugh:
It has much more to do with our media and ratings. Think about hurricane coverage, kids trapped in caves and Baby Jessica.
One trip too many @berdie Every time that vessel made the trip it was subjected to and then released from the pressures encountered on the way up and down and this time something broke.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 23, 2023, 10:50:46 pm
The middle of the tube furthest from the titanium round ends has to remain perfectly round while under huge external forces or it collapses. Once it deforms even slightly - it is over.
I can see that... Toilet paper roll... though you would think it can be buttressed by the flanges at both ends (to some degree) and ribbing, if not bulkheads.
Still, the pressure is phenomenal. I would be uncomfortable with something rigid flanged to something flexible regardless of ribbing... and that without mentioning the viewing ports...
I would think it would fail at the gaskets, as such things do - I have zero experience with submarines and high pressure environment, but I know hydraulics, at least practically, and that's sorta the same thing in the inverse.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 23, 2023, 11:04:13 pm
Quote
FULL TIMELINE: Here is what the Biden Admin said publicly about the missing sub compared to when they learned Titan was lost by: Libby Emmons 06/23/2023
A tragedy unfolded this week before the eyes of the world. A deep sea submersible, the 5-person Titan, descended to the ocean floor on Sunday to view the 111-year-old wreck of the Titanic. The timeline of what was known when, as revealed in the press and that which was known in official channels, however, were two entirely different things.
Despite knowing that the craft was lost on Sunday, the government narrative persisted in telling the story of a search and rescue, allowing for hope and optimism even after the tragedy, and the loss of five lives, was known to the Biden administration. ...
(On Tuesday, two days after the USN and USCG knew the sub had imploded:) Kirby gave hope that survivors would be found.
"All of us, including the president express our thoughts to the crew on board, as well as to the no doubt worried family members back on shore — and we're just gonna, we're gonna keep looking, keep the search going," he said. The Biden administration and the Coast Guard continued to give press the impression that a rescue was possible, despite having learned from the Navy that there had been an explosion. The coordinates for that explosion, given by the Navy to the Coast Guard, were what guided the Coast Guard's search. ...
Human Events (https://humanevents.com/2023/06/23/full-timeline-here-is-what-the-biden-admin-said-publicly-about-the-missing-sub-compared-to-when-they-learned-titan-was-lost)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: berdie on June 23, 2023, 11:14:08 pm
Does the waiver hold if it turns out the submarine company was negligent in the construction or maintenance of the submersible??
I would be more concerned if the waiver is valid if the next of kin never agreed to it. They're not the ones who signed away anything.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: corbe on June 23, 2023, 11:20:53 pm
Titanic missing sub: Implosion could only have been caused by engineering flaw, deep-sea pilot says
by Brady Knox, Breaking News Reporter June 23, 2023 04:55 PM
The tourist submarine that is believed to have imploded while surveying the wreck of the Titanic could have only done so due to an engineering flaw, according to an expert deep-sea pilot.
Ofer Ketter, president of the submersible safety company SubMerge and an experienced deep-sea pilot, told Newsweek that the Titan most likely imploded due to the unconventional nature of the hull's material, which degraded over time after repeated trips to the ocean floor.
"In this case of this extreme, catastrophic implosion, there is only one explanation — and that is an engineering fault," Ketter said.
"So that leaves us only with that option: that this specific submersible was just not designed to withstand the pressure that it went down to," Ketter said. "That's only conclusion there is for this scenario."
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 23, 2023, 11:24:06 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 23, 2023, 11:38:39 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 23, 2023, 11:47:11 pm
Titanic sub rescue was a 'nightmarish, prolonged charade that gave families false hope'
James Cameron, who has visited the wreck of the Titanic over 30 times, said the families of the five passengers on-board The Titan have been given 'false hope' for days BySusan KnoxSenior Showbiz and TV Reporter
09:32, 23 Jun 2023Updated10:30, 23 Jun 2023
James Cameron has called the missing Titanic submarine search a 'prolonged and nightmarish charade'.
Titanic director and submersible expert James, 68, said he predicted Titan's implosion days before the debris from the missing submersible were found and said that the families of the five passengers on-board have been given 'false hope' for days one end.
Mr Cameron - who has visited the Titanic's shipwreck over 30 times - likened the tragedy this week to the actual Titanic disaster, where the captain repeatedly ignored warnings about an incoming iceberg but still decided to carry on at high speed, leading to thousands of people losing their lives in the water.
After a five day search for the Titan after it went missing on Sunday, the US Coast Guard announced yesterday that the five passengers on board were killed instantly when the submersible suffered a 'catastrophic implosion' just 1,600ft from the bow of the wrecked ocean liner.
more https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/james-cameron-calls-titan-rescue-30303642
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 23, 2023, 11:49:28 pm
‘Titanic’ director James Cameron blames submersible’s carbon-fiber hull for deadly implosion By Selim Algar June 23, 2023 5:44pm
“Titanic” director James Cameron on Friday blamed the carbon fiber composite construction hull of the doomed OceanGate submersible for its tragic implosion this week.
The material likely led to the “critical failure” that claimed the lives of five passengers aboard the minivan-sized craft, Cameron told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos.
“You don’t use composites for vessels that are seeing external pressure,” he said. “They’re great for internal pressure vessels like scuba tanks, for example, but they’re terrible for external pressure.”
Cameron said the submersible’s designers relied on aviation engineering rather than submergence technology — an approach he believes led to the implosion during a tour of Titanic wreckage.
“We all said that it was, you know, a flawed idea and they didn’t go through certification,” he said.
“I think that was a critical failure.”
Cameron argued that carbon fiber accumulates damage with each dive.
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/james-cameron-blames-titanic-subs-carbon-fiber-hull-for-implosion/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 23, 2023, 11:58:08 pm
Interesting story
Titanic survivor’s haunting tale resurfaces after Titan sub implosion By Mary K. Jacob June 23, 2023 7:19pm
A harrowing account from Titanic survivor Frank Prentice has resurfaced on social media in the wake of this week’s Titan submersible tragedy.
An assistant storekeeper on the doomed ship, Prentice gave an interview to the BBC in 1979.
He recounted that sorrowful day in April 1912 when the RMS Titanic sank on its maiden voyage from England to America, killing over 1,500 people. There were around 700 survivors.
Prentice, who passed away in 1982 at the age of 93, survived by swimming to a nearby lifeboat.
He recalled that the Titanic seemed to stop as if you were “jamming your brakes on a car” — it was sudden.
“We had a porthole open, and I looked out. The sky was clear, and the stars were shining. Sea was dead calm. And I thought, I couldn’t understand it,” Prentice explained.
“So I came out of my cabin, and I thought I’d go forward, and I went forward to the well deck on the starboard side, and I could see ice on the well deck. There was no sign of an iceberg then, ’cause it passed us. And the lights were shining on the water from the portholes, and there was no sign of damage above waterline.”
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/titanic-survivor-frank-prentices-tale-resurfaces-after-titan-sub-implosion/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 24, 2023, 04:15:52 am
I can see that... Toilet paper roll... though you would think it can be buttressed by the flanges at both ends (to some degree) and ribbing, if not bulkheads.
Still, the pressure is phenomenal. I would be uncomfortable with something rigid flanged to something flexible regardless of ribbing... and that without mentioning the viewing ports...
I would think it would fail at the gaskets, as such things do - I have zero experience with submarines and high pressure environment, but I know hydraulics, at least practically, and that's sorta the same thing in the inverse.
Just remember the old parlor trick of standing on an empty beer can until someone tapped it on the side and it collapsed. The loss of strength derived from the shape occurs instantaneously when that shape is deformed, even for an instant.
Of course, as beer cans became thinner and I did not, I became more of a witness than a participant. :laugh:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 24, 2023, 04:32:42 am
Just remember the old parlor trick of standing on an empty beer can until someone tapped it on the side and it collapsed. The loss of strength derived from the shape occurs instantaneously when that shape is deformed, even for an instant.
Of course, as beer cans became thinner and I did not, I became more of a witness than a participant. :laugh:
LOL! That's right. I never have been able to stand on the beer can... Unless it's full of beer. But that's a waste of good beer.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Gefn on June 24, 2023, 04:48:06 am
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Fishrrman on June 24, 2023, 04:19:20 pm
There was also a film from 1953, "Titanic": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1953_film)
Not particularly historically-accurate, but still ok.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 24, 2023, 04:20:09 pm
Quote
... While the cause of the accident is not yet known, an obvious point of focus is the safety concerns raised by a whistleblower five years ago. Back in 2018, David Lochridge, the former Director of Marine Operations at the sub operator OceanGate, sued the company after allegedly being fired for bringing up safety issues. For the record, Lochridge was not an engineer.
As described by Law and Crime, among Lochridge’s complaints was a concern that the Titan was using a viewport that was only certified to 1,300 meters (4,265 feet). This was a problem because the Titanic wreck is at a depth of 12,400 feet (3,780 meters). In scientific terms, this is what is referred to as “not even close.” ...
When operating at the limits of human technology, safety and redundancy are of paramount importance. The more that I’ve learned about Ocean Gate and the Titan, the more I’ve been appalled at the lack of concern for safety.
In 2022, CEO Stockton Rush told CBS News, “At some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything.”
This is not the attitude that I’d want from the guy building a machine to take me 12,000 feet underwater. Some risk is necessary, but Rush’s attitude makes me think less that his risks were carefully calculated and more that he carelessly disregarded basic safety protocols in building his craft. ...
"The Titan and the Comet," Ordinary Times (https://ordinary-times.com/2023/06/24/the-titan-and-the-comet/)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 24, 2023, 04:34:17 pm
"The Titan and the Comet," Ordinary Times (https://ordinary-times.com/2023/06/24/the-titan-and-the-comet/)
In 2022, CEO Stockton Rush told CBS News, “At some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything.”
For some men, having a death wish is not enough. They want to take others with them. On the other hand, the only difference between an innovator and a dangerous lunatic is whether your capsule explodes.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 24, 2023, 04:39:21 pm
In other words, if you're going to do this, please do it alone. (https://clickamericana.com/wp-content/uploads/Go-over-Niagara-Falls-in-a-barrel-Meet-the-daredevil-who-did-it-first.jpg)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: corbe on June 24, 2023, 05:13:30 pm
The Sub Story is an Example of Apolitical Fake News
The media creates news at least as often as it reports on it.
June 24, 2023 by Daniel Greenfield
The media took a brief break from its political feeding frenzies to gorge on a generally apolitical tragedy.
The story of the OceanGate sub all but took over the airwaves as the media whipped up suspense over the fate of the people on board. The people on board were however dead and had been all along.
The Navy was aware of that. So were most experts. Even Titanic director James Cameron weighed in with the obvious.
The idea, held up by the media to profit from eyeballs and clicks, that people were sitting somewhere in a stranded sub waiting to be rescued was a lie. And the media knew that it was a lie.
9 times out of 10 a mysterious disappearance is just a death that hasn’t been discovered, but it doesn’t stop the media from generating suspense and promoting a search not because it cares about the people involved, but because it cares about its bottom line. Ideally, for its purposes, the sub would never have been found and then the story could have dragged on forever. Think about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 or Madeleine McCann.
I was unaware that the vessel had EVER been to the Titanic @berdie I thought it only has been tested at the 3200 mark. Titanic being another 1K down.
It has been reported that this submersible had made "at least" 10 trips to the Titanic. I also read that some expert said that there was no question that it would eventually fail, it wasn't a matter if "if," but "when."
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 24, 2023, 05:58:05 pm
The media creates news at least as often as it reports on it.
:yowsa: And kills news just as readily!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: massadvj on June 24, 2023, 06:01:50 pm
Ideally, for its purposes, the sub would never have been found and then the story could have dragged on forever.
Politics works the same way, unfortunately. The worst thing that could happen to the GOP was for Roe v Wade to get decided before the 2020 midterms.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 24, 2023, 06:35:01 pm
In 2022, CEO Stockton Rush told CBS News, “At some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything.”
For some men, having a death wish is not enough. They want to take others with them. On the other hand, the only difference between an innovator and a dangerous lunatic is whether your capsule explodes.
Mark Twain would have argued with him. The Danger of Lying in Bed (https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story/the-danger-of-lying-in-bed)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 24, 2023, 07:16:40 pm
Ideally, for its purposes, the sub would never have been found and then the story could have dragged on forever.
Politics works the same way, unfortunately. The worst thing that could happen to the GOP was for Roe v Wade to get decided before the 2020 midterms.
Roe was decided in 1973. It's Dobbs that was a political inconvenience, and mainly because the Media grossly misrepresented what the decision meant. Not an end to all abortion, it just kicked the issue back to the several States to regulate or ban.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 24, 2023, 07:31:03 pm
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.
He did it to knock off Republican candidates for Congress and the Senate. That, and starving him of advertising funds, cost Masters the election. GOPe does NOT want America First Senators!
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 24, 2023, 11:01:25 pm
June 24, 2023 3:24pm EDT OceanGate Titanic sub: Royal Canadian Mounted Police not ruling out possible criminal investigation RCMP Superintendent Kent Osmond says the agency has assembled a team to determine whether to proceed with a criminal investigation into the fatal Titan submersible voyage
By Bradford Betz | Fox News
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is looking into the circumstances surrounding the fatal voyage of OceanGate Expedition’s Titan submersible to determine whether a criminal investigation is warranted.
RCMP Superintendent Kent Osmond said Saturday a team of investigators had been established to decide whether a full criminal investigation would proceed.
"Such an investigation will proceed only if our examination of the circumstances indicate criminal, federal or provincial laws may have possibly been broken," Osmond said.
The announcement comes two days after rescue teams found a debris field in the search for OceanGate’s missing Titan submersible carrying five men to tour the wreckage of the Titanic. The U.S. Coast Guard confirmed that the vessel had suffered a fatal implosion.
USCG led the initial search and rescue mission, which was a massive international effort that likely cost millions of dollars. The Transportation Safety Board of Canada said Friday it will be investigating the submersible incident.
RCMP has jurisdiction for off-sea deaths but will be working with other agencies that were involved in the search.
more https://www.foxnews.com/world/oceangate-titanic-sub-royal-canadian-mounted-police-not-ruling-out-possible-criminal-investigation
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 26, 2023, 01:27:58 pm
Fourth dive launched to Titanic sub disaster debris field in mission to recover remains
June 25, 2023 9:36pm EDT Titan submersible recovery efforts continue with help of remotely operated vehicle Massachusetts-based company called in to help find Titan submersible continues to assist with recovery efforts
By Greg Wehner | Fox News
Efforts to recover the remains of the Titan submersible that suffered a catastrophic implosion near the Titanic wreckage are currently underway, and as of Sunday, had descended to the seafloor for a fourth dive.
Last Thursday, the U.S. Coast Guard confirmed that a debris field located about 1,600 feet from the wreckage of the Titanic was in fact that of the missing Titan submersible.
The underwater vessel was carrying five men on board when it lost contact with its surface ship about an hour and 45 minutes after descending to the Titanic.
South Wellfleet, Massachusetts-based Pelagic Research Services (PRS) was contacted by OceanGate, the company behind Titan, for use of its remotely operated vehicles, or "ROVs," to assist with the search.
more https://www.foxnews.com/us/titan-submersible-recovery-efforts-continue-help-remotely-operated-vehicle
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 26, 2023, 01:35:19 pm
WADR, why are "we" - whomever that "we" is - going to spend millions and millions more to recover wreckage from this tragedy? It's reasonably clear what happened, there isn't anything that's intrinsically valuable down there, and there are unlikely to be any significant recoverable human remains, given the physics of an implosion at that depth.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 26, 2023, 01:47:15 pm
How would you like to be the person sifting through the sub pieces looking for human remains if they recover it? Ughhhh
Personally, I wouldn't, but there are people whose job it is to do that.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 26, 2023, 01:56:53 pm
Teen on doomed OceanGate sub hoped to break world record for Rubik’s Cube in depths of ocean By Allie Griffin June 25, 2023 9:05pm
The 19-year-old who perished in the Titan submersible along with his father had hoped to break a world record for solving a Rubik’s Cube in the depths of the ocean.
Sulaiman Dawood brought his Rubik’s Cube with him and his dad grabbed his camera as they boarded the doomed Titanic-bound sub last Sunday, the teen’s devastated mother, Christine Dawood, told the BBC.
“He said, ‘I’m going to solve the Rubik’s Cube 3,700 meters below sea at the Titanic,'” she told the outlet in her first interview since the deaths of her son and husband.
The teen was able to solve the cube puzzle in under 20 seconds and carried it with him everywhere, she added.
The grieving mom said she had originally planned to take the trip to the bottom of the sea with her husband, but the excursion was canceled due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
When the opportunity to board the OceanGate submersible arose again, she said, she let her son go instead.
“Then I stepped back and gave them space to set [Sulaiman] up because he really wanted to go,” Christine said.
She and her 17-year-old daughter, Alina, were on the mothership that launched the sub to excitedly see off their husband/father and son/brother on Father’s Day.
“I was really happy for them because both of them, they really wanted to do that for a very long time,” she said.
They were still on the mothership, the Polar Prince, when the team lost communications with the Titan about an hour and 45 minutes after launch.
“I didn’t comprehend at that moment what it meant — and then it just went downhill from there,” Christine told the British publication.
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/25/teen-on-titan-sub-brought-rubiks-cube-to-break-world-record/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 26, 2023, 02:09:17 pm
The two titanium end caps likely met in the middle... In milliseconds...
Not necessarily. If the collapse was longitudinal on the carbon fibre cylinder, then the end caps may have stayed relatively the same, with perhaps a bit of movement toward the common center.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 26, 2023, 04:29:04 pm
Heartbroken mom who lost husband, son on doomed sub gave her spot to her 19-year-old at the last minute
The woman who lost her husband and teenage son in the imploded Titanic sub said she spent four agonizing days “constantly looking” at the sea — only giving up hope after 96 hours, when she knew they would have run out of oxygen.
Christine Dawood told the BBC that she was initially supposed to be on the doomed dive with her 48-year-old husband, Shahzada — before she “stepped back and gave the space to Sulaiman,” their 19-year-old, Rubik’s Cube-obsessed son.
She instead stayed on the mothership, the Polar Prince, with her 17-year-old daughter, Alina, as the Titan started its mission on Father’s Day.
The mom said she was having a snack when word came through that they “had lost comms,” or communications, with the now-controversial sub that is run by a videogame controller.
“I didn’t comprehend at that moment what it meant – and then it just went downhill from there,” she said, admitting she is “not doing very good” coping with her double loss.
more https://nypost.com/2023/06/26/woman-who-lost-husband-and-son-on-titanic-sub-only-gave-up-hope-after-96-hours/
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 26, 2023, 05:08:24 pm
Not necessarily. If the collapse was longitudinal on the carbon fibre cylinder, then the end caps may have stayed relatively the same, with perhaps a bit of movement toward the common center.
That's true. Hopefully the debris field will tell the tale.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 26, 2023, 05:39:16 pm
Quote
When the opportunity to board the OceanGate submersible arose again, she said, she let her son go instead.
“Then I stepped back and gave them space to set [Sulaiman] up because he really wanted to go,” Christine said.
I thought we heard the boy wasn't terribly eager to take the trip, but since it was Fathers Day and his dad really wanted to do it, he went along with it.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 26, 2023, 05:43:31 pm
I thought we heard the boy wasn't terribly eager to take the trip, but since it was Fathers Day and his dad really wanted to do it, he went along with it.
Yes..the aunt had a different story... :shrug:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:11:00 pm
I don't think that was the reason...If they knew there was an implosion the families should have been told instead of constantly reporting the *banging noises* giving all the families false hope for several days....sounds like they were intentionally lying to them.
You NEVER declare someone to be dead unless you are in possession of the body. There are still US Military members listed as "Missing in Action,PRESUMED dead" all these years after the VN War ended.
Once you declare someone to be officially dead,there are no more searches for them and you have just officially told their families there is no hope.
Yet,sometimes,on VERY rare occassions,some of these "dead men" come wandering back into life occasionally.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:15:04 pm
I have a vague recollection of Gordon Lightfoot's name being added to list of dead from the Edmund Fitzgerald,in honor of all the attention he brought to the sinking and the missing sailors.
There is a plaque listing the names of all the missing/dead on a church in Michigan,but I am not sure if his name was etched there for all time like the missing men,or it was a symbolic thing.
None the less,they DID mention his name,and rang the church bell to honor him when he died.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:20:06 pm
Unless you are a trained submersible designer/manufacturer, you have no means of evaluating whether that submersible was capable of descending to the depths it went to, nor do you have the ability to evaluate the maintenance schedules and logs to discern whether maintenance has been adequate, nor whether there were defects discovered that should concern you.
NONE of those people were even close to being retarded and no one MADE them sign up for the dive,which means they HAD to know they were taking a risk,and accepted the risk.
What next,ban automobiles because hundreds,maybe even thousands of people die each year in auto accidents?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 27, 2023, 10:23:28 pm
NONE of those people were even close to being retarded and no one MADE them sign up for the dive,which means they HAD to know they were taking a risk,and accepted the risk.
What next,ban automobiles because hundreds,maybe even thousands of people die each year in auto accidents?
@sneakypete In case you're too effed up to google it, automobiles are subject to a very comprehensive set of design and testing criteria, and an auto that doesn't pass those criteria cannot legally be sold. Wikipedia even has a helpful little article on the U.S. federal standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards
Duh.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:28:02 pm
@sneakypete In case you're too effed up to google it, automobiles are subject to a very comprehensive set of design and testing criteria, and an auto that doesn't pass those criteria cannot legally be sold. Wikipedia even has a helpful little article on the U.S. federal standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards
What in God's good name are you babbling on about?
Automobiles are subject to stringent safety standards. Boilers are subject to stringent safety standards. F*cking hot water heaters and space heaters are subject to stringent safety standards. Hell, the f*cking guns you used to kill viet cong were subject to safety standards.
Why shouldn't submersibles that are being made available for public use not be subject to stringent safety standards?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 27, 2023, 10:34:03 pm
What in God's good name are you babbling on about?
Automobiles are subject to stringent safety standards. Boilers are subject to stringent safety standards. F*cking hot water heaters and space heaters are subject to stringent safety standards. Hell, the f*cking guns you used to kill viet cong were subject to safety standards.
Why shouldn't submersibles that are being made available for public use not be subject to stringent safety standards?
Nobody is buying a ticket to ride in one of these things using lunch money. ONLY the Uber Wealthy can afford a ride,and they damn sure have the means/resources to investigate the danger and make their own decisions.
Yes,sometimes those decisions will be bad ones even after receiving advise to not take the chance. So what? Nobody forced them to go on the diver,and they paid big bucks to do it.
I might note that the Wright Brothers were taking enormous risks at the time when they flew their home made airplane off a sand dune in NC.
So did the people who flew mail routes,etc,etc,etc in the early days of aviation.
They ALL were aware they were taking risks,and they were willing to take those risks.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 27, 2023, 10:46:41 pm
Nobody is buying a ticket to ride in one of these things using lunch money. ONLY the Uber Wealthy can afford a ride,and they damn sure have the means/resources to investigate the danger and make their own decisions.
Yes,sometimes those decisions will be bad ones even after receiving advise to not take the chance. So what? Nobody forced them to go on the diver,and they paid big bucks to do it.
I might note that the Wright Brothers were taking enormous risks at the time when they flew their home made airplane off a sand dune in NC.
So did the people who flew mail routes,etc,etc,etc in the early days of aviation.
They ALL were aware they were taking risks,and they were willing to take those risks.
:shrug:
If you say so, Chief, you're the genius here.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 27, 2023, 10:46:47 pm
If someone assures you something is safe, here’s a hint:they maybe lying.
There is a certain complacency that comes with longevity... It's been working all this time, so it will be fine again... When actually the reverse is true. The more something is used, the more critical maintenance becomes. You can literally see it everywhere, but none so much as carnival rides. The more I became acquainted with the mechanics of things, the less I would allow my children to participate.
This might be something like that - more rigid protocols make way for the laxity of familiarity... Not saying that's true, Jussayin.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:46:54 pm
Use your common sense. Taking an airline flight is much safer than some jury rigged pvc pipe deal that’s only been down there a handful of times.
I am using my common sense, which is why I fail to see why things like submersibles should not be subject to safety standards, the same as my car, the roads I drive on, the bridges I cross, the house I live in, the hot water heater in my basement, the space heater in my office, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:50:26 pm
A cheap shot that is beneath you. NOBODY but you mentioned "genius" here. I was only citing the right of a FREE people to make their own judgement calls when trying something new and risky.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 10:52:35 pm
@sneakypete In case you're too effed up to google it, automobiles are subject to a very comprehensive set of design and testing criteria, and an auto that doesn't pass those criteria cannot legally be sold. Wikipedia even has a helpful little article on the U.S. federal standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards
Duh.
Pretty hard to run those (destructive) tests on one-off vehicles. It's different when you make them by the hundreds of thousands. And it's a lot different setting up to run a car into a concrete block than it is to simulate the effects of 5500 PSI on a complete pressure hull, especially when made of novel materials.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 27, 2023, 10:54:49 pm
Pretty hard to run those (destructive) tests on one-off vehicles. It's different when you make them by the hundreds of thousands. And it's a lot different setting up to run a car into a concrete block than it is to simulate the effects of 5500 PSI on a complete pressure hull, especially when made of novel materials.
Tough shit. Then someone shouldn't be allowed to sell rides on it until they've done sufficient testing.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 27, 2023, 10:55:54 pm
I am using my common sense, which is why I fail to see why things like submersibles should not be subject to safety standards, the same as my car, the roads I drive on, the bridges I cross, the house I live in, the hot water heater in my basement, the space heater in my office, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
That's right, I suppose... But that depends on the flag she flies, and who would be the determining entity. Deep sea subs are an engineering feat nearly as complicated in engineering as a space capsule. Crazy complicated. What entity understands that enough to say it is safe, other than the engineers that made it?
And on the other hand, I have driven highly modded vehicles all my life, to include inventions functioning off-road. None of them were ever inspected. :shrug:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 27, 2023, 10:57:26 pm
Or maybe they were just retards that didn't know any better,and someone should have stopped them?
Challenger
Columbia
Sh*t happens, and hopefully, people learn from it. Someone will do a study on carbon fiber pressure hull degradation over multiple pressure cycles, and either the materials will be abandoned, or the manufacturing process improved. The richer the rewards, the higher the stakes.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 27, 2023, 10:58:36 pm
I am using my common sense, which is why I fail to see why things like submersibles should not be subject to safety standards, the same as my car, the roads I drive on, the bridges I cross, the house I live in, the hot water heater in my basement, the space heater in my office, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
This was done in international waters iirc. I believe there are already safety standards in place, but this was too far out. On the other hand submersibles are such a niche thing I’m not sure it warrants more regulations. Bottom line: do your due dilligance before stepping on one of these things. They have independent agencies to rate these things.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 27, 2023, 11:03:32 pm
Quote
Report: OceanGate Bought Carbon Fiber ‘Past Shelf Life’ for Titanic Sub Elaine Mallon 27 Jun 2023
Stockton Rush revealed in a conversation over cigars with Travel Weekly editor-in-chief Arnie Weissmann that he bought expired carbon fiber graded for airplanes at a discount for the Titan submersible that met a tragic end with five people on board.
“I responded right away, saying, ‘Don’t you have any concerns about that?’” Weissmann told the Washington Post. “He was very dismissive and said: ‘No, it’s perfectly fine. Having all these certifications for airplanes is one thing, but the carbon fiber was perfectly sound.’”
Rush invited Weissmann to take part in the dive, but due to his schedule, Weissmann had to back out, the Post reported. ...
Years before the doomed Titanic submarine dive, experts raised concerns regarding the structural integrity of the sub’s design and the use of carbon fiber.
Rush admitted that he “broke some rules” by using carbon fiber—which isn’t as safe as titanium or steel for deep sea dives—for the purpose of elongating the cylinder-shaped cabin. However, this design choice caused increased “pressure loads in the midsections, which increases fatigue and delamination loads,” Jasper Graham-Jones, an associate professor of mechanical and marine engineering at the University of Plymouth in the United Kingdom told PBS. ...
A cheap shot that is beneath you. NOBODY but you mentioned "genius" here. I was only citing the right of a FREE people to make their own judgement calls when trying something new and risky.
I agree. I equate this with attempts going to the top of Everest. Not even new, but certainly risky. It's a personal choice. Ya pay your money, ya take your chance.
It's nothing like every day items like cars, water heaters, etc.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 27, 2023, 11:11:05 pm
Just in case anyone doesn't know already, I will choose freedom over a nanny every damned time!
And BTW: The argument proceeding here is far from inconsequential
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2023, 11:21:27 pm
Sh*t happens, and hopefully, people learn from it. Someone will do a study on carbon fiber pressure hull degradation over multiple pressure cycles, and either the materials will be abandoned, or the manufacturing process improved. The richer the rewards, the higher the stakes.
And THERE it is. No new technology advances without risks of one type or another.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 27, 2023, 11:57:44 pm
I don't see this as much different than experimental aircraft. Pushing the edge of technology and trying new things has always been risky.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: 240B on June 28, 2023, 12:50:33 am
It was a homemade "garage built" cobbled together submarine using untested/uncertified materials that experts knew were unsafe. Like everything built haphazardly, it worked a few times and then eventually fell apart.
Rush mixed a carbon fiber hull with a titanium bow which is unsafe because the temperatures and pressures the sub will encounter will cause these two materials to expand and contract at different rates in relation to each other. This could, and probably did, weaken the joining of these two completely different components. This is substandard by any measure. Also, he included a porthole (an acrylic window not rated for a deep dive) which is unusual for any submarine intending to dive to significant depth. This is why he refused to submit the sub for any formal safety oversite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKLamhyJ6bE
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 28, 2023, 04:00:36 am
I don't see this as much different than experimental aircraft. Pushing the edge of technology and trying new things has always been risky.
What seems different to me is that experimental aircraft usually involve advanced materials, designs, etc., that push the technological edge - trying to advance science/engineering g with the best of the best.
This appears to be the opposite - not using the best materials and design to try something never done before, but rather using cheap materials and corner-cutting designs just to save a buck.
Nobody will really learn anything from this other than that Stockton Rush was an idiot.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 28, 2023, 04:24:18 am
What seems different to me is that experimental aircraft usually involve advanced materials, designs, etc., that push the technological edge - trying to advance science/engineering g with the best of the best.
This appears to be the opposite - not using the best materials and design to try something never done before, but rather using cheap materials and corner-cutting designs just to save a buck.
Nobody will really learn anything from this other than that Stockton Rush was an idiot.
A Carbon fiber hull and titanium end caps aren't necessarily the cheapest design. Yes, there are more expensive ones, but likely there are cheaper materials that would do the same thing, albeit resulting in a far heavier vehicle. It is more of a case of using a different design, and one that apparently worked for several dives. The question is one of what changed, some will even harp on whether or not they consider that to be predictable (in retrospect, of course).
What works, works, until it doesn't, and that's what happened here.
Now the big question going forward is one of "Why?", and whether or not the materials are suitable for multiple dive cycles, and if not why not. Would modifications render them suitable? What are the implications for the AI/drone and manned defense industry, if any?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 28, 2023, 04:27:12 am
A Carbon fiber hull and titanium end caps aren't necessarily the cheapest design. Yes, there are more expensive ones, but likely there are cheaper materials that would do the same thing, albeit resulting in a far heavier vehicle. It is more of a case of using a different design, and one that apparently worked for several dives. The question is one of what changed, some will even harp on whether or not they consider that to be predictable (in retrospect, of course).
What works, works, until it doesn't, and that's what happened here.
Now the big question going forward is one of "Why?", and whether or not the materials are suitable for multiple dive cycles, and if not why not. Would modifications render them suitable? What are the implications for the AI/drone and manned defense industry, if any?
Barring the horrible tragedy of the thing, my money is on the porthole, I think.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 28, 2023, 04:33:59 am
Barring the horrible tragedy of the thing, my money is on the porthole, I think.
I'm going to wait and see. Somewhere I read that over time carbon fiber degrades with stress cycles, and it sure got that. A scrape, a ding, something changed from the last run, and the results were less than nominal. The question is one of "what?". Someone pointed out differential expansion/contraction between the 'tube' and the end caps, and while a failure of the porthole would be fatal, would it shred the hull? I'm not so sure that the effect would be the same as a hull implosion. Apparently one of the end caps was sighted, and no mention of deformation or damage to it was made. If the main hull failed, the end caps would be blown off the tube. Not having the data, I won't speculate further.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 28, 2023, 04:56:56 am
I'm going to wait and see. Somewhere I read that over time carbon fiber degrades with stress cycles, and it sure got that. A scrape, a ding, something changed from the last run, and the results were less than nominal. The question is one of "what?". Someone pointed out differential expansion/contraction between the 'tube' and the end caps, and while a failure of the porthole would be fatal, would it shred the hull? I'm not so sure that the effect would be the same as a hull implosion. Apparently one of the end caps was sighted, and no mention of deformation or damage to it was made. If the main hull failed, the end caps would be blown off the tube. Not having the data, I won't speculate further.
Dunno. And I don't think we'll ever know... What with where the evidence lies. And the way CF leaves when it goes (which may not be the same under water, not to mention the tremendous pressure) there may not be enough left to put together an answer.
However, if the center gave way or the thing blew a gasket at either end, The shattering might have left the porthole and it's mounting intact... not being an integral part of of the tension... Which would make me wrong. But I am betting on a point of intrusion before utter collapse. and around the porthole would be most likely to me as a point of failure.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 28, 2023, 04:58:17 am
What seems different to me is that experimental aircraft usually involve advanced materials, designs, etc., that push the technological edge - trying to advance science/engineering g with the best of the best.
This appears to be the opposite - not using the best materials and design to try something never done before, but rather using cheap materials and corner-cutting designs just to save a buck.
Nobody will really learn anything from this other than that Stockton Rush was an idiot.
Engineering is all about meeting the technical goals of a project while doing it at lower cost than the competitors. To do that it often requires creative use of materials/components in ways they haven't been used before. It requires detailed simulation and physical testing to accurately establish the limits of what can be done reliably. It needs to be tested to the point of failure to make sure the design analysis matches the real world characteristics. In the case of this submersible, it appears a few steps were skipped.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 28, 2023, 05:00:23 am
Dunno. And I don't think we'll ever know... What with where the evidence lies. And the way CF leaves when it goes (which may not be the same under water, not to mention the tremendous pressure) there may not be enough left to put together an answer.
However, if the center gave way or the thing blew a gasket at either end, The shattering might have left the porthole and it's mounting intact... not being an integral part of of the tension... Which would make me wrong. But I am betting on a point of intrusion before utter collapse. and around the porthole would be most likely to me as a point of failure.
The debris field and recovering some key pieces such as the titanium ends may answer a number of the questions.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: roamer_1 on June 28, 2023, 05:16:27 am
The debris field and recovering some key pieces such as the titanium ends may answer a number of the questions.
Yes. And I hope so. However, conditions will dictate a rather hurried recovery, I would imagine. They will not be able to sift the site for hours like a wreck on land, or even in shallow water. This is almost as horrible as conditions can get on this planet.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 12:47:48 pm
I'm going to wait and see. Somewhere I read that over time carbon fiber degrades with stress cycles, and it sure got that. A scrape, a ding, something changed from the last run, and the results were less than nominal.
OK,I am not no structural inginieer,BUT.....,is there sum reason the ingineers can't attach stress sensors to the interior walls,along with alarms to notify the crew that it is time to surface quickly?
Stress sensors are little doo-dahs,and they cant possibly cost THAT much money when you compare what it costs to build a sub like that,never mind what you have to pay out to the families of the deceased.
I am probably wrong because this is such a simple idea someone has HAD to have thought of it before.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 12:50:47 pm
Engineering is all about meeting the technical goals of a project while doing it at lower cost than the competitors. To do that it often requires creative use of materials/components in ways they haven't been used before. It requires detailed simulation and physical testing to accurately establish the limits of what can be done reliably. It needs to be tested to the point of failure to make sure the design analysis matches the real world characteristics. In the case of this submersible, it appears a few steps were skipped.
A Carbon fiber hull and titanium end caps aren't necessarily the cheapest design. Yes, there are more expensive ones, but likely there are cheaper materials that would do the same thing, albeit resulting in a far heavier vehicle. It is more of a case of using a different design, and one that apparently worked for several dives. The question is one of what changed, some will even harp on whether or not they consider that to be predictable (in retrospect, of course).
What works, works, until it doesn't, and that's what happened here.
Now the big question going forward is one of "Why?", and whether or not the materials are suitable for multiple dive cycles, and if not why not. Would modifications render them suitable? What are the implications for the AI/drone and manned defense industry, if any?
For me @Smokin Joe the big question is will we continue to be allowed to do pioneering things or not? I see nanny state being advocated all over.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 01:09:35 pm
And "pioneering" is just a fractional part of my concern. The focus should be on how society SEEMS to be conditioning,or trying to condition,people to not think for themselves and not to take chances.
Cows don't do a lot of thinking for themselves,and you never see a cow taking chances.
Look at how well that works out for cows if you need an "instant snapshot" of how this will work out for humanity.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: 240B on June 28, 2023, 01:22:57 pm
For me @Smokin Joe the big question is will we continue to be allowed to do pioneering things or not? I see nanny state being advocated all over.
If he is going down in the sub by himself or with a fellow engineer, no one would think anything about it. However, he made this a public for-profit venture which is completely different. When he takes paying civilian 'passengers' on board, then that is no longer pioneering. That is a public commercial venture in an unsafe craft he designed and built.
If someone told you they have designed and built a revolutionary form of helicopter, which is like nothing else before it. And that it is 100% safe. And that he has successfully flown it three times to 100ft/200ft/300ft, would buy a ticket to fly in it to Las Vegas?
He was well past the pioneering stage into the public arena. That makes it a matter of public safety. If he had kept it to himself and his engineers, we probably would have never even heard about it. Nobody would care except maybe as a side note in weird news.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Kamaji on June 28, 2023, 01:34:45 pm
If he is going down in the sub by himself or with a fellow engineer, no one would think anything about it. However, he made this a public for-profit venture which is completely different. When he takes paying civilian 'passengers' on board, then that is no longer pioneering. That is a public commercial venture in an unsafe craft he designed and built.
If someone told you they have designed and built a revolutionary form of helicopter, which is like nothing else before it. And that it is 100% safe. And that he has successfully flown it three times to 100ft/200ft/300ft, would buy a ticket to fly in it to Las Vegas?
He was well past the pioneering stage into the public arena. That makes it a matter of public safety. If he had kept it to himself and his engineers, we probably would have never even heard about it. Nobody would care except maybe as a side note in weird news.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 28, 2023, 01:40:27 pm
If he is going down in the sub by himself or with a fellow engineer, no one would think anything about it. However, he made this a public for-profit venture which is completely different. When he takes paying civilian 'passengers' on board, then that is no longer pioneering. That is a public commercial venture in an unsafe craft he designed and built.
When we board an airplane, train or bus, or get into our own automobiles, we naturally assume they've been sufficiently tested and are safe. The passengers of this submarine should not have been so trusting.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 01:50:16 pm
If he is going down in the sub by himself or with a fellow engineer, no one would think anything about it. However, he made this a public for-profit venture which is completely different. When he takes paying civilian 'passengers' on board, then that is no longer pioneering. That is a public commercial venture in an unsafe craft he designed and built.
If someone told you they have designed and built a revolutionary form of helicopter, which is like nothing else before it. And that it is 100% safe. And that he has successfully flown it three times to 100ft/200ft/300ft, would buy a ticket to fly in it to Las Vegas?
He was well past the pioneering stage into the public arena. That makes it a matter of public safety. If he had kept it to himself and his engineers, we probably would have never even heard about it. Nobody would care except maybe as a side note in weird news.
They would be even better if the bozo that build that sub was building them to sell to the public or the government.
He wasn't,though. He wasn't building them to sell to anyone.
"Buyer Beware" is STILL an excellent moto to live by though,and this includes people who buy tickets to ride on a conveyance engineered and built by someone else.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 28, 2023, 01:51:22 pm
When we board an airplane, train or bus, or get into our own automobiles, we naturally assume they've been sufficiently tested and are safe. The passengers of this submarine should not have been so trusting.
It appears to me that everyone on board had agreed that ALL the risks was assumed by themselves.
When we board an airplane, train or bus, or get into our own automobiles, we naturally assume they've been sufficiently tested and are safe. The passengers of this submarine should not have been so trusting.
ESPECIALLY not since they were so wealthy they didn't even have the excuse of being ignorant. They HAD to know there were serious risks involved,and decided to take those risks,anyhow.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: 240B on June 28, 2023, 02:04:28 pm
When we board an airplane, train or bus, or get into our own automobiles, we naturally assume they've been sufficiently tested and are safe. The passengers of this submarine should not have been so trusting.
I have read that the CEO Rush was an arrogant greedy overly confident man. And that he was dismissive of any safety concerns because he thought he knew better.
He was warned by many submarine and aerospace experts that the craft needed months, possibly even years more testing by nautical professionals. He thought they were just frightened by anything new that did not conform to the old standard way of doing things.
Furthermore, he could not wait that long to recover his investments. So he rushed the launch date completely confident that he had thought of and had prepared for every possible eventually while actively blocking and not allowing ANY outside consultants (some of them with 30-40 years nautical experience. the best on Earth) to confer with him on his ideas. They were interested in his project and would have peer-reviewed his work. All he had to do was publish the goals and specifications of the project and let them take a look at it. He did not.
He would not allow himself and his staff to be challenged by 'outsiders'. He could not accept that he may not have thought of everything or even worse, that his design would not work. He was incorrect in this assumption.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 02:09:55 pm
I have read that the CEO Rush was an arrogant greedy overly confident man. And that he was dismissive of any safety concerns because he thought he knew better.
He was warned by many submarine and aerospace experts that the craft needed months, possibly even years more testing by nautical professionals. He thought they were just frightened by anything new that did not conform to the old standard way of doing things.
Furthermore, he could not wait that long to recover his investments. So he rushed the launch date completely confident that he had thought of and had prepared for every possible eventually while actively blocking and not allowing ANY outside consultants (some of them with 30-40 years nautical experience. the best on Earth) to confer with him on his ideas. They were interested in his project and would have peer-reviewed his work. All he had to do was publish the goals and specifications of the project and let them take a look at it. He did not.
He would not allow himself and his staff to be challenged by 'outsiders'. He could not accept that he may not have thought of everything or even worse, that his design would not work. He was incorrect in this assumption.
IF true,I guess it gives the estates of the deceased passengers grounds for a lawsuit,or to settle out of court.
I have to admit to being more than a little surprised that someone can build something like this on his own,and then charge passengers to ride in it without being REQUIRED to have the craft approved as safe for this purpose by the government.
He wasn't asking friends and acquaintances to ride along with him,he was charging a LOT of money. HOW did he manage to do this without government permits and safety inspections,when cab and bus companies are required to pass safety inspections?
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Bigun on June 28, 2023, 02:11:08 pm
I have read that the CEO Rush was an arrogant greedy overly confident man. And that he was dismissive of any safety concerns because he thought he knew better.
He was warned by many submarine and aerospace experts that the craft needed months, possibly even years more testing by nautical professionals. He thought they were just frightened by anything new that did not conform to the old standard way of doing things.
Furthermore, he could not wait that long to recover his investments. So he rushed the launch date completely confident that he had thought of and had prepared for every possible eventually while actively blocking and not allowing ANY outside consultants (some of them with 30-40 years nautical experience. the best on Earth) to confer with him on his ideas. They were interested in his project and would have peer-reviewed his work. All he had to do was publish the goals and specifications of the project and let them take a look at it. He did not.
He would not allow himself and his staff to be challenged by 'outsiders'. He could not accept that he may not have thought of everything or even worse, that his design would not work. He was incorrect in this assumption.
I will stipulate to ALL of that being true @240B now tell me how that negates the fact that EVERYONE onboard voluntarily signed an agreement to assume ALL the risks of taking the trip.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mountaineer on June 28, 2023, 03:14:58 pm
It appears they signed away their right (or their heirs', etc.) to file a product liability suit. I'm sure a bunch of lawyers will duke it out anyway, though.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: GtHawk on June 28, 2023, 03:28:42 pm
ESPECIALLY not since they were so wealthy they didn't even have the excuse of being ignorant. They HAD to know there were serious risks involved,and decided to take those risks,anyhow.
Wealth does not guarantee intelligence, never has, there are plenty of wealthy people dumb as rocks, as to the serious risks involved I wonder how good a huckster the builder was, seems like anytime I read where someone brought up safety questions about the design or material he just blew them off. And remember we as human beings have the ability to do seriously stupid things that seem just fine to us but those observing the results can't understand why someone would have been so dumb. Unfortunately in a situation like this I doubt the people that died even had time to be sorry.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: 240B on June 28, 2023, 03:29:43 pm
I will stipulate to ALL of that being true @240B now tell me how that negates the fact that EVERYONE onboard voluntarily signed an agreement to assume ALL the risks of taking the trip.
I do not stipulate to all those things being true. I don't know if they are true or not. Never met the guy or worked with him in any way. I was just distilling what I have gleaned from the dozens of YouTube videos on the subject as well as articles written on the entire history of the project. Whether these things were produced by his associates or his enemies, I have no way of knowing this.
As far as the waiver, it is impossible to discuss without being able to read it. Also, we can never know what they were told face to face or in recruiting/sales meetings. Be that as it may, it is factually correct that any waiver can be abrogated if the person signing it was acting on intentionally misleading misinformation. Additionally, if the responsible party was grossly negligent causing injury, and knew or should have known that the dangers involved in the agreement were significant greater than was revealed to the passenger, naturally the waiver can be called into question.
Many people believe that waivers are inviolable. Waivers are as susceptible to judicial review and adjudication as any other contract. Regardless of any remission which may have been agreed to at the outset, the responsible party is still required to act with due common care in the discharge of the arrangement.
If it can be shown that the responsible party did not disclose full scope of the situation in which they would embark, or that the responsible party acted in a dangerous or reckless manner which may have contributed to injury or harm, the waiver can be voided. (e.g. if the Capitan dove the submarine deeper than the specifications of the weakest element of the craft could withstand, which is information he is responsible to know.)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: GtHawk on June 28, 2023, 03:39:51 pm
I will stipulate to ALL of that being true @240B now tell me how that negates the fact that EVERYONE onboard voluntarily signed an agreement to assume ALL the risks of taking the trip.
How many people ever read a EULA before agreeing to it? I wonder when the agreement was presented to those making the trip, how long did they have to look it over, was it given to them and the operator telling them it was just typical standard boilerplate and no big deal since he had safely made several trips? I agree that one has personal responsibility but also that there could be circumstances that may have a profound affect on decision making.
Personally you couldn't make me take a risk like a ride in a little sub that far down, no matter how wealthy and bored I might be or the need to be that special person talked about at parties (if that was the reason they made the trip they succeeded!)
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: mystery-ak on June 28, 2023, 03:46:24 pm
Mangled debris from doomed Titan sub is brought ashore in Canada ten days after it suffered 'catastrophic implosion' 12,500ft below Atlantic near the Titanic wreck, killing all five on board
Large chunks of the Titan submersible have been pulled from the Atlantic ocean The vessel suffered a 'catastrophic implosion' with five people on board during a journey to the site of the Titanic's wreckage The U.S. Coast Guard has led a mission to recover what remains of Titan and investigate the cause of the disaster
By Lewis Pennock For Dailymail.Com
Published: 10:38 EDT, 28 June 2023 | Updated: 11:41 EDT, 28 June 2023
Debris from the Titan submersible that imploded on the bottom of the Atlantic as it tried to reach the wreckage of the Titanic has been hauled ashore.
The huge chunks of metal were unloaded from the Horizon Arctic ship at the Canadian Coast Guard pier in St John's, Newfoundland, Canada, this morning.
They were quickly covered in large tarpaulins before being lifted by cranes on to trucks that took them away for assessment. The pieces included a large, white section of curved metal. Another object was full of cables and other mechanical parts.
The development comes exactly ten days after the doomed Titan submersible vanished during a tourist trip run by OceanGate Expeditions.
After a huge search and rescue mission, debris was discovered on the seabed last Thursday and it was revealed that the sub had suffered a 'catastrophic implosion', killing all five on board.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/06/28/15/72628281-12243189-image-a-6_1687962782208.jpg) The huge chunks of metal were unloaded from the Horizon Arctic ship at the Canadian Coast Guard pier in St John's, Newfoundland, Canada, this morning
I do not stipulate to all those things being true. I don't know if they are true or not. Never met the guy or worked with him in any way. I was just distilling what I have gleaned from the dozens of YouTube videos on the subject as well as articles written on the entire history of the project. Whether these things were produced by his associates or his enemies, I have no way of knowing this.
As far as the waiver, it is impossible to discuss without being able to read it. Also, we can never know what they were told face to face or in recruiting/sales meetings. Be that as it may, it is factually correct that any waiver can be abrogated if the person signing it was acting on intentionally misleading misinformation. Additionally, if the responsible party was grossly negligent causing injury, and knew or should have known that the dangers involved in the agreement were significant greater than was revealed to the passenger, naturally the waiver can be called into question.
Many people believe that waivers are inviolable. Waivers are as susceptible to judicial review and adjudication as any other contract. Regardless of any remission which may have been agreed to at the outset, the responsible party is still required to act with due common care in the discharge of the arrangement.
If it can be shown that the responsible party did not disclose full scope of the situation in which they would embark, or that the responsible party acted in a dangerous or reckless manner which may have contributed to injury or harm, the waiver can be voided. (e.g. if the Capitan dove the submarine deeper than the specifications of the weakest element of the craft could withstand, which is information he is responsible to know.)
There is a link to the full agreement included in my first post to you. @240B
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: DB on June 28, 2023, 04:13:29 pm
There is a link to the full agreement included in my first post to you. @240B
Yes, it was posted here a while ago. And yes, it was explicitly stated that you could die and didn't beat around the bush about it. Everyone who signed it did it of their own free will.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: 240B on June 28, 2023, 05:49:19 pm
Look guys ... I love you all, I do. But I have no interest in reviewing a waiver which does not concern me, my family, or anyone I know right now. But yes, you are correct in pointing out that I missed the link.
Even if I reviewed it and posted comments on it, they would all be meaningless. This case will go well past the four corners, especially in this convoluted scenario. There are so many points, facts, and issues, that we simply do not know yet.
Did Rush break U.S. Maritime Law by opening a commercial business in an unlicensed, uncertified, homemade craft? If the entire operation is illegal, then the waivers are meaningless, no matter what is written on them.
If you go to an amusement park and sign a waiver to ride the "Parachute Drop!" ride and get injured, only to find out through discovery that the entire operation of the park is unlicensed, uncertified, unregulated, and illegal, those waivers will have as much weight in court as a Kamala Harris speech.
This is my last post on this topic. I have lost interest until we have more information. I want to move on. Of course as always, my very best regards. This has been fun.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 28, 2023, 05:54:17 pm
Look guys ... I love you all, I do. But I have no interest in reviewing a waiver which does not concern me, my family, or anyone I know right now. But yes, you are correct in pointing out that I missed the link.
Even if I reviewed it and posted comments on it, they would all be meaningless. This case will go well past the four corners, especially in this convoluted scenario. There are so many points, facts, and issues, that we simply do not know yet.
Did Rush break U.S. Maritime Law by opening a commercial business in an unlicensed, uncertified, homemade craft? If the entire operation is illegal, then the waivers are meaningless, no matter what is written on them.
If you go to an amusement park and sign a waiver to ride the "Parachute Drop!" ride and get injured, only to find out through discovery that the entire operation of the park is unlicensed, uncertified, unregulated, and illegal, those waivers will have as much weight in court as a Kamala Harris speech.
This is my last post on this topic. I have lost interest until we have more information. I want to move on. Of course as always, my very best regards. This has been fun.
Needless to say, we enjoy arguing... :D
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 28, 2023, 06:06:24 pm
It appears they signed away their right (or their heirs', etc.) to file a product liability suit. I'm sure a bunch of lawyers will duke it out anyway, though.
You can be certain the man/corporation that owned the dive unit has lawyers working 24/7 right now,trying to hide any and all of his assets they can find.
Right or wrong has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 06:14:44 pm
Wealth does not guarantee intelligence, never has, there are plenty of wealthy people dumb as rocks, as to the serious risks involved I wonder how good a huckster the builder was, seems like anytime I read where someone brought up safety questions about the design or material he just blew them off. And remember we as human beings have the ability to do seriously stupid things that seem just fine to us but those observing the results can't understand why someone would have been so dumb. Unfortunately in a situation like this I doubt the people that died even had time to be sorry.
True,but you can bet your bippy there isn't one single multi-millionaire anywhere in this country that doesn't have a team of lawyers scrutinizing everything he or she looks at and signs.
They might leave home and forget to dress,but they won't forget to leave home with their phone and their lawyers phone numbers.
It's just "self-defense 101" for the uber wealthy.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 28, 2023, 06:20:28 pm
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 28, 2023, 11:22:40 pm
For me @Smokin Joe the big question is will we continue to be allowed to do pioneering things or not? I see nanny state being advocated all over.
Precisely. How many failed (and paid the price) to fly balloons? Heavier than air craft? Space programs? (Baikonur, Soyuz, Apollo, Challenger, Columbia? People still get on airplanes and ride to the edges of outer space. People still die even in other tried and true platforms under water, and then you have powered land surface vehicles, undergoing another wave of innovation, but essentially lacking the statistics to determine they are safe (which none are, in some hands).
But being human, we keep trying new stuff, or even old stuff in new or refined ways.
Squelch innovation and humanity will wither on the vine.
Once again, this had worked on a slew of dives before. This time, it didn't. The Space shuttles worked on a slew of missions, but twice they did not. :shrug:
It's sad, but that's the way the belly buttons.
Title: Re: Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard
Post by: sneakypete on June 29, 2023, 02:10:29 am
Precisely. How many failed (and paid the price) to fly balloons? Heavier than air craft? Space programs? (Baikonur, Soyuz, Apollo, Challenger, Columbia? People still get on airplanes and ride to the edges of outer space. People still die even in other tried and true platforms under water, and then you have powered land surface vehicles, undergoing another wave of innovation, but essentially lacking the statistics to determine they are safe (which none are, in some hands).
But being human, we keep trying new stuff, or even old stuff in new or refined ways.
Squelch innovation and humanity will wither on the vine.
Once again, this had worked on a slew of dives before. This time, it didn't. The Space shuttles worked on a slew of missions, but twice they did not. :shrug: