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General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on March 03, 2015, 01:37:59 pm

Title: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mystery-ak on March 03, 2015, 01:37:59 pm
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/234399-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-start-for-the-gop (http://thehill.com/homenews/news/234399-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-start-for-the-gop)

By Scott Wong - 03/03/15 06:00 AM EST
The opening weeks of the 114th Congress have been nothing short of a disaster for Republicans, who declared upon taking control of both chambers last fall that the era of governing by crisis and fiscal cliffs was over.

Since their declaration, House GOP leaders have yanked several high-profile bills from the floor after rebellions from rank-and-file members.

Counting an emergency measure to keep the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) running through Friday, Congress has sent President Obama a total of only four bills, even as
Republicans promised to get off to a fast start this session.

The low point came Friday, when more than 50 conservative Republicans revolted against Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and opposed a bill to fund the DHS.

It was a humiliating defeat for Boehner, who had to turn to Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to bail him out with only hours to spare before a shutdown at the agency.

“The revolters effectively put Nancy Pelosi in charge of the House,” the right-leaning Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote Monday. It questioned whether the setback meant the end of legislating for the Republican-controlled Congress just more than halfway through “its first 100 days in office.”

“Republicans need to do some soul searching about the purpose of a Congressional majority, including whether they even want it,” the Journal wrote.

The GOP-led Congress has only seen two of its bills become law, a terrorism insurance measure and a veterans suicide prevention bill that were both left over from last year.

The fourth bill approved by the GOP Congress approves construction of the Keystone XL oil pipeline. Sending the bill to Obama represented a victory for Republicans, though it was largely overshadowed by the Homeland Security fight.

But Obama vetoed the Keystone measure, and Republicans don’t appear to have the votes to override him.

Instead of rallying behind a unified agenda, centrist and conservative Republicans now are engaged in open warfare with one another, bickering over the best strategy to push back against Obama’s executive actions on immigration.

Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), a close Boehner ally, ripped “phony conservative members who have no credible policy proposals and no political strategy to stop Obama’s lawlessness.” And former Homeland Security Committee Chairman Pete King (R-N.Y.) criticized conservative rebels as “self-righteous and delusional.”

Another centrist Republican, Rep. Charlie Dent (Pa.), even accused conservatives of using the “issue of terrorism” to “advance their very crass, political interests” of trying to oust Boehner from the Speaker’s chair.

In a brief interview, Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), a Tea Party favorite, wouldn’t say whether conservatives are targeting Boehner, but he slammed GOP leaders for choosing to “negotiate with Democrats” rather than accept a plan by conservatives to continue fighting Obama’s immigration policies.

Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.), another close Boehner ally, said he understands conservative outrage over the president’s immigration actions but conceded that Republicans are powerless without a 60-vote, filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

“I don’t mind having this fight here, but it’s not going to be resolved here,” Cole told The Hill. “We don’t have political strength to win in the end.”

In the November midterms, Republicans captured their largest majority in the House in more than 80 years. But they got off to a rocky start.

On Day One of what leaders dubbed the “New American Congress,” 25 conservatives rebelled and publicly voted against giving Boehner another two years as Speaker. While he eventually prevailed, the failed coup attempt was an embarrassing moment for the sitting Speaker and highlighted his vulnerabilities.

Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.), the party’s chief vote counter, has had his own share of embarrassments this Congress. On at least three occasions, GOP leaders have been forced to pull bills off the floor, because they lacked enough Republican votes to pass.

In January, female and centrist Republicans scuttled an anti-abortion measure over objections it was too restrictive when it came to exempting women who had been raped. That bill was supposed to pass on the same day as the annual Right to Life march in Washington, but Republicans had to take up a less controversial abortion bill instead.

Just a week later, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) and his anti-immigration allies in the House forced leadership to shelve a border-security bill by Homeland Security Committee Chairman Michael McCaul (R-Texas), arguing it would do little to stop Obama’s initiatives shielding millions of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally from deportation.

Friday’s conservative revolt against Boehner’s proposal to fund the DHS for three weeks overshadowed another major failure by the whip team. That same day, leaders yanked legislation overhauling the No Child Left Behind Act, after outside conservative groups claimed the bill didn’t do enough to scale back Washington’s involvement in education policy.

Boehner has acknowledged that his party has had some “stumbles” coming out of the gates. Asked about the latest setback over DHS funding, the Speaker replied that the House of Representatives is a “rambunctious place.”

“We have 435 members,” Boehner said Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “A lot of members have a lot of different ideas about what we should and shouldn’t be doing.”

The GOP’s whip operation has had to contend with other distractions as well. Scalise is still dealing with fallout from revelations that he spoke to a white supremacist group when he was a state lawmaker in 2002. He was asked again about the scandal Sunday during an appearance on Fox News.

And a senior member of his whip team, Rep. Aaron Schock (R-Ill.), is under fire after a series of stories revealed he billed taxpayers and campaign donors tens of thousands of dollars for private flights, concert tickets and extravagant, “Downton Abbey”-style decorations for his congressional office.

Over the weekend, the Chicago Sun-Times reported Schock, once a GOP rising star, had used taxpayer money to charter a flight to a Chicago Bears game in the fall.

As for the current impasse, some Republicans are openly fretting that the funding fight is doing untold damage to the party ahead of 2016.

“The Democrats have got to remember they got fired for a reason. We’ve got to remember we weren’t hired because of our value set. We were hired because they got fired,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who is eyeing a potential White House bid. “2015 is about us. There’s nobody to blame but us, when it comes to the appropriations process.

“If we self-inflict on the budget and the appropriations process, and we can’t get the government managed, well then, I think we’re in trouble.”
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 03, 2015, 06:40:08 pm
Unless the GOPe gets their crap together soon, I don't see them retaining the majority.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: truth_seeker on March 03, 2015, 07:04:43 pm
No amount of real conservative@ bellicosity, threats, wishful thinking  can overcome the Constitutional requirement for a 2/3 vote to override a Constitutional Presidential veto.

Replacing Boehner, McConnell and shouting louder, and making bolder threats won't change the Constitution, so often mentioned by them.

The other time tested method of governing, has been negotiations, compromises, etc. Reagan compromised often. 


Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: jmyrlefuller on March 03, 2015, 07:10:07 pm
Quote
The other time tested method of governing, has been negotiations, compromises, etc. Reagan compromised often. 

And where has it led us? Too far down the road to progressivism. We cannot afford, as a country, to continue to give the left even more when we've already given them so much. The time for compromise is over.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Longiron on March 03, 2015, 07:25:33 pm
No amount of real conservative@ bellicosity, threats, wishful thinking  can overcome the Constitutional requirement for a 2/3 vote to override a Constitutional Presidential veto.

Replacing Boehner, McConnell and shouting louder, and making bolder threats won't change the Constitution, so often mentioned by them.

The other time tested method of governing, has been negotiations, compromises, etc. Reagan compromised often.

You are correct about the Constitution. But do you understand that Barry does not care about the Constitution and will do what he wants and KNOW the PUBS do not have the Ba** to stop him??? Correct , if wrong!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: truth_seeker on March 03, 2015, 07:33:16 pm
And where has it led us? Too far down the road to progressivism. We cannot afford, as a country, to continue to give the left even more when we've already given them so much. The time for compromise is over.
I wonder how Teddy Roosevelt and FDR got elected, way back? The times they were a' changing-over 100 years ago. We survived then, and we will survive now.

We will be okay. But for conservatism to stay in the game, they too must change and adapt to a changing world and country. Getting smarter politically will help immensely.



To begin, the GOP needs to get smarter and quit their internal name calling.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: truth_seeker on March 03, 2015, 07:36:06 pm
You are correct about the Constitution. But do you understand that Barry does not care about the Constitution and will do what he wants and KNOW the PUBS do not have the Ba** to stop him??? Correct , if wrong!
IOW you offer the same; bellicosity, threats, etc.

Obama is not the first one to test the Executive powers. FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court. Nixon was accused of the Imperial Presidency.

We will survive, but "conservatism" needs to raise up their game, not by threats and screaming ever more loudly, but by figuring out how to get some of what they want, instead of insisting on all or nothing.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mountaineer on March 03, 2015, 08:13:32 pm
Where was the threat or bellicosity in longiron's comment? I saw none.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 08:32:05 pm
Where was the threat or bellicosity in longiron's comment? I saw none.

When you disagree with an establishment type, that is bellicosity, to them.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: raml on March 03, 2015, 08:33:18 pm
The no balls republicans were voted in to stop Obama not to help him achieve his goal of a communist country. I hate the weak kneed republican leaders more than I do Obama since they could have stopped him they were not voted in to give in to him but that is what they are doing. I have come to the conclusion that nothing can help this country it is gone the constitution is ignored and republican leaders are at fault for this. To hell with it all I lived long enough to see our destruction I wish I hadn't but I did I am going to hibernate into my small world and ignore what corrupt politicians have done and pray for my salvation to hell with yours.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: aligncare on March 03, 2015, 08:33:26 pm

Obama is not the first one to test the Executive powers. FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court. Nixon was accused of the Imperial Presidency.


Except that Nixon felt the self-conscious emotion of shame and honorably resigned. Obama possesses no such form of self-examination with which to check his behavior. We have a dangerous man as president.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 08:37:34 pm
The no balls republicans were voted in to stop Obama not to help him achieve his goal of a communist country. I hate the weak kneed republican leaders more than I do Obama since they could have stopped him they were not voted in to give in to him but that is what they are doing. I have come to the conclusion that nothing can help this country it is gone the constitution is ignored and republican leaders are at fault for this. To hell with it all I lived long enough to see our destruction I wish I hadn't but I did I am going to hibernate into my small world and ignore what corrupt politicians have done and pray for my salvation to hell with yours.

We see things much the same. The Republicans were given the House and the Senate because the people wanted to put a check on Obama's executive orders, amnesty in particular. Now that the Republicans have shown their hand, and it's clear they will capitulate to Obama, the people will respond appropriately.

There is little chance the Republicans will win the presidency, or hold the Senate in 2016.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mountaineer on March 03, 2015, 08:39:19 pm
I know how you feel, raml.  8888crybaby
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: sinkspur on March 03, 2015, 08:46:07 pm
Unless the GOPe gets their crap together soon, I don't see them retaining the majority.

If the Tea Party idiots continue to muck up the process, THEY will be responsible for whatever happens to the GOP majority. It's the intransigence of the right wing that's causing the problems.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: sinkspur on March 03, 2015, 08:51:45 pm
We see things much the same. The Republicans were given the House and the Senate because the people wanted to put a check on Obama's executive orders, amnesty in particular. Now that the Republicans have shown their hand, and it's clear they will capitulate to Obama, the people will respond appropriately.

There is little chance the Republicans will win the presidency, or hold the Senate in 2016.

And that's because the rest of the country sees the absolute intransigence of the Tea Party and wants no part of it.  Everyone saw McConnell introduce the DHS funding attached to overturning Obama's EO FOUR TIMES, and four times the Democrats refused to take it up.

What is he then supposed to do?  He has to put up a bill  that will pass. 

Defunding will not work.  We've seen the GOP try it twice now, and fail.  Time to do something different.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:00:02 pm
And that's because the rest of the country sees the absolute intransigence of the Tea Party and wants no part of it.  Everyone saw McConnell introduce the DHS funding attached to overturning Obama's EO FOUR TIMES, and four times the Democrats refused to take it up.

What is he then supposed to do?  He has to put up a bill  that will pass. 

Defunding will not work.  We've seen the GOP try it twice now, and fail.  Time to do something different.

When do they fight? When do they do something? Anything?

Banning ammo? No problem.
Amnesty? No problem.

Show me something, somewhere they do something other than make noise and put on a show?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mystery-ak on March 03, 2015, 09:10:35 pm
If the Tea Party idiots continue to muck up the process, THEY will be responsible for whatever happens to the GOP majority. It's the intransigence of the right wing that's causing the problems.

Oh Tea Party idiots?...it was the Tea Party and other Conservatives that gave them the Senate on the promise to stop Obama...they failed..then we heard from people here to calm down and give them a chance...well we did that to and still nothing....what is that old saying..*fool me once*..etc......I can only speak for myself..I will always vote...I don't believe in sitting out elections..I will NEVER vote Dem for any office...so that will leave me no choice to vote [outside the primaries] for the Rep candidate......like I said I speak only for myself.......

Don't call TP members idiots!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 03, 2015, 09:10:57 pm
If the Tea Party idiots continue to muck up the process, THEY will be responsible for whatever happens to the GOP majority. It's the intransigence of the right wing that's causing the problems.

You are of course entitled to your opinion.  The GOPe siding with the DEMS is what's causing the problem.  Silly me.  Here I thought we were a two party system.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:16:47 pm
You are of course entitled to your opinion.  The GOPe siding with the DEMS is what's causing the problem.  Silly me.  Here I thought we were a two party system.

Nope, in Washington D.C. it's one big party, with our money.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: sinkspur on March 03, 2015, 09:17:10 pm
Oh Tea Party idiots?...it was the Tea Party and other Conservatives that gave them the Senate on the promise to stop Obama...they failed..then we heard from people here to calm down and give them a chance...well we did that to and still nothing....what is that old saying..*fool me once*..etc......I can only speak for myself..I will always vote...I don't believe in sitting out elections..I will NEVER vote Dem for any office...so that will leave me no choice to vote [outside the primaries] for the Rep candidate......like I said I speak only for myself.......

Don't call TP members idiots!

OK. I don't want to get a time-out.

But I will say that the tea partiers continue to advocate that the Congress do the same thing, over and over.

Call that what you will.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: sinkspur on March 03, 2015, 09:18:25 pm
You are of course entitled to your opinion.  The GOPe siding with the DEMS is what's causing the problem.  Silly me.  Here I thought we were a two party system.

They tried. It didn't work. Shutting down the government or one department of government NEVER works.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 09:22:51 pm
Unless the GOPe gets their crap together soon, I don't see them retaining the majority.

Why is that?

Will you vote Democrat next round?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:24:10 pm
Why is that?

Will you vote Democrat next round?

I will.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 09:24:45 pm
I will.

No doubt.

That says a lot about you.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:27:46 pm
No doubt.

That says a lot about you.

Hey, if everyone does as I will do, then you'll get your open borders.

You're a staunch conservative, until your not. Just like your rulers in the GOPe.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Longiron on March 03, 2015, 09:28:33 pm
We see things much the same. The Republicans were given the House and the Senate because the people wanted to put a check on Obama's executive orders, amnesty in particular. Now that the Republicans have shown their hand, and it's clear they will capitulate to Obama, the people will respond appropriately.

There is little chance the Republicans will win the presidency, or hold the Senate in 2016.

You are very correct. Their is only one choice and that is competition in the RINOGOP. Conservatives need to get out of the Primary Process where it is fixed against them. In 2016 the big money donors and Wall Street can live very well with Jeb or Hillary. Does not matter. Someone on here posted about that a few days ago and they are 100% right. The answer is obvious it just needs a leader to implement it ???
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 09:32:56 pm
Hey, if everyone does as I will do, then you'll get your open borders.

You're a staunch conservative, until your not. Just like your rulers in the GOPe.

I don't want open borders, you're just a liar.

You were a liar under your previous handle, and you haven't changed one bit.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 03, 2015, 09:37:56 pm
I don't want open borders, you're just a liar.

You were a liar under your previous handle, and you haven't changed one bit.

Wish these types of arguments could be taken to PM.

But, I understand.   You beat me to it Luis.

How can any established member here in a Republican forum EVER vote Democrat.

Personally, I'd prefer you stayed home and not vote at all.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:40:00 pm
I don't want open borders, you're just a liar.

You were a liar under your previous handle, and you haven't changed one bit.

Really? Guess what genius, I've never had another handle here.

You're obviously quick with personal attacks, but a poor, slow thinker.

Answer me this. What would be happening that's any different if the Dems were in control of Congress? Aside from this speech that no one besides political wonks and junkies will know about. LIVs won't pay attention until the country is burning to the ground. 
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mystery-ak on March 03, 2015, 09:41:15 pm
 :facepalm2:

Luis....please rephrase your post......please!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:42:41 pm
Wish these types of arguments could be taken to PM.

But, I understand.   You beat me to it Luis.

How can any established member here in a Republican forum EVER vote Democrat.

Personally, I'd prefer you stayed home and not vote at all.

Well, at least you're civil about it this time.

See my reply to Luis.

It kills me to watch this country die the death of a thousand cuts. Nothing gets better, it's a continual spiral to the bottom. The LIVs are oblivious. The average person doesn't care. Republicans control 2/3s of the government and are still powerless.

To heck with it. Burn it to the ground.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mystery-ak on March 03, 2015, 09:46:09 pm
OK. I don't want to get a time-out.

But I will say that the tea partiers continue to advocate that the Congress do the same thing, over and over.

Call that what you will.

Sink I have NEVER suspended or banned anyone for their political views...only their actions on the forum.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 09:49:31 pm
Really? Guess what genius, I've never had another handle here.

You're obviously quick with personal attacks, but a poor, slow thinker.

Answer me this. What would be happening that's any different if the Dems were in control of Congress? Aside from this speech that no one besides political wonks and junkies will know about. LIVs won't pay attention until the country is burning to the ground.

I'm quick with the personal attack?

You're a guy in a GOP website admitting that you would for Democrats while calling others RINOs.

That tells me a lot about you, but only because you told me.

The personal attack came when you lied about my wanting open borders.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 09:54:14 pm
I'm quick with the personal attack?

You're a guy in a GOP website admitting that you would for Democrats while calling others RINOs.

That tells me a lot about you, but only because you told me.

The personal attack came when you lied about my wanting open borders.

Right, you simply want amnesty. A difference without a distinction. Amnesty draws more illegals in search of more amnesty. A de facto open borders policy.

Rather than seek clarification, you went right to the personal attack. It's ok, I take no offense when my attacker is an impotent individual such as yourself.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: truth_seeker on March 03, 2015, 10:03:00 pm
I will.
I could not say such a thing. Virtually every Republican is to the right of every democrat.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt, assuming the situation makes you so angry, you can't think straight.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 10:10:53 pm
I could not say such a thing. Virtually every Republican is to the right of every democrat.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt, assuming the situation makes you so angry, you can't think straight.

I see it clearly. Perhaps a bit more clearly than you do?
The R's took both chambers of Congress. What has changed?

Yes, they all find a way to vote conservative at some point when it doesn't matter. I am aware of the practice of allowing votes to stray from the fold if the member needs to prove his or her credentials. And yes, there are some R's that disagree with the current direction. But, again, what has changed? They will implement the D agenda, or ignore Obama's actions and plead that they are powerless. It's really just a spin on the liberal practice of claiming socialism really works, they just haven't done enough of it yet. The R's will react to the will of the people, they just aren't in control enough yet.

To hell with them.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Lando Lincoln on March 03, 2015, 10:11:08 pm
It kills me to watch this country die the death of a thousand cuts. Nothing gets better, it's a continual spiral to the bottom. The LIVs are oblivious. The average person doesn't care. Republicans control 2/3s of the government and are still powerless.

We share that horrific dismay.  I am sure you and I want the same change in direction, to halt that seemingly inexorable spiral.  I suspect we all do.  As such, we all have a desperation or an urgency which heightens reaction to things.  We bicker over tactics, over the "who", and over the what - while wanting (close to) similar outcomes.  I have fine young sons who are men now; they share my values and attitudes.  I will never cede ground to the Democrats by voting for one.  The Republicans can nominate a yellow dog and I will vote for the dog over the Democrat.

I am mindful that the Republican bench continues to strengthen on the State and local levels with what seems to be a good overall bunch.  I know my sons are conservative in their attitudes as are most of their friends.  That gives me something to hope for, to inspire myself.  I will never "let it burn down" without doing the most I can.

Sometimes I think we almost need a catastrophic attack to finally galvanize us and wake up the LIV's.  The question will be whether or not we can survive it and I sincerely pray it does not happen.  Instead, I hope leadership can somehow emerge, through Divine intervention or happenstance - it doesn't matter -  who will lift us from this mire.  If I need the yellow dog to do it, so be it.  It sure as hell won't be blue.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 10:12:20 pm
Right, you simply want amnesty. A difference without a distinction. Amnesty draws more illegals in search of more amnesty. A de facto open borders policy.

Rather than seek clarification, you went right to the personal attack. It's ok, I take no offense when my attacker is an impotent individual such as yourself.

The greatest conservative mind of our generation, and of many generations, examined this exact same problem, albeit in a much smaller scale, and came to the conclusion that amnesty was the only solution, because there was no way to round up and deport millions of people.

Reagan's failure was not making damned sure that securing the border happened before amnesty happened.

Today, there is no plan to deport millions more than the numbers Reagan faced. You would prefer they remain illegals (IIRC that's your position) but that's temporary. The current interpretation of the XIV Amendment says that the illegality that you would prefer disappears in one generation, since their  US-born children are US citizens at birth.

If we're not going to throw them out (which we are not), then we need to account for them in one way or another.

Secure/control the borders.

Re-instate the Bracero program.

Begin a legitimization program with those illegal aliens with deep roots in this country and no criminal history.

That's simply a realistic approach, fine tuning what Reagan tried to do, and that's been my position for well over a decade.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: PzLdr on March 03, 2015, 10:12:53 pm
If the Tea Party idiots continue to muck up the process, THEY will be responsible for whatever happens to the GOP majority. It's the intransigence of the right wing that's causing the problems.

Spare me. We tried it your way twice. Remember 2008 and 2012? How'd that work out for you? Want us to compromise more? Why? Why don't you and all those moderates compromise with us? Better still, elect your GOP Prez and Congress in 2016 without us. you obviously don't need us. You have all those moderates. And remember, the loss is on you, not us.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 10:15:44 pm
Spare me. We tried it your way twice. Remember 2008 and 2012? How'd that work out for you? Want us to compromise more? Why? Why don't you and all those moderates compromise with us? Better still, elect your GOP Prez and Congress in 2016 without us. you obviously don't need us. You have all those moderates. And remember, the loss is on you, not us.

Or the TEA Party could try behaving like the majority without actually being the majority and see how far that takes them along the legislative process.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 10:17:38 pm
I see it clearly. Perhaps a bit more clearly than you do?
The R's took both chambers of Congress. What has changed?

Yes, they all find a way to vote conservative at some point when it doesn't matter. I am aware of the practice of allowing votes to stray from the fold if the member needs to prove his or her credentials. And yes, there are some R's that disagree with the current direction. But, again, what has changed? They will implement the D agenda, or ignore Obama's actions and plead that they are powerless. It's really just a spin on the liberal practice of claiming socialism really works, they just haven't done enough of it yet. The R's will react to the will of the people, they just aren't in control enough yet.

To hell with them.

You've been condemning this Congress since before they were sworn into office.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 10:21:54 pm
The greatest conservative mind of our generation, and of many generations, examined this exact same problem, albeit in a much smaller scale, and came to the conclusion that amnesty was the only solution, because there was no way to round up and deport millions of people.

Reagan's failure was not making damned sure that securing the border happened before amnesty happened.

Today, there is no plan to deport millions more than the numbers Reagan faced. You would prefer they remain illegals (IIRC that's your position) but that's temporary. The current interpretation of the XIV Amendment says that the illegality that you would prefer disappears in one generation, since their  US-born children are US citizens at birth.

If we're not going to throw them out (which we are not), then we need to account for them in one way or another.

Secure/control the borders.

Re-instate the Bracero program.

Begin a legitimization program with those illegal aliens with deep roots in this country and no criminal history.

That's simply a realistic approach, fine tuning what Reagan tried to do, and that's been my position for well over a decade.

Your memory is faulty.
I have no issue with Spanish people. I think that they have been lured here by companies that want to underpay and abuse illegal labor. I am against rounding up and deporting millions of people. It bothers me that Spanish speakers have jumped the line where other nationalities have to wait significant periods and deal with reams of red tape to get into America. But, that's crying over spilt milk.

Close the borders.
Pick an arbitrary number... say, those here longer than 5 years can apply for citizenship immediately. Those here less than 5 years will have to deal with a more lengthy process, (this is to avoid a crush of those coming for instant citizenship).
Revise the laws for hiring illegals to make it very painful for employers who choose to hire illegals.

That all seems reasonable, and would do much to fix the problem.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 10:24:28 pm
You've been condemning this Congress since before they were sworn into office.

Once again, your memory is faulty, or you simply enjoy attacking me. Either way, you should check yourself.

I was gleefully surprised that the R's took the Senate. I didn't think it would happen. I said I'd give them time to be seated, and actually do things before I'd begin throwing rocks.

They've done some things, and the rocks are being pitched.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Lando Lincoln on March 03, 2015, 10:25:06 pm
The greatest conservative mind of our generation, and of many generations, examined this exact same problem, albeit in a much smaller scale, and came to the conclusion that amnesty was the only solution, because there was no way to round up and deport millions of people.

Reagan's failure was not making damned sure that securing the border happened before amnesty happened.

Today, there is no plan to deport millions more than the numbers Reagan faced. You would prefer they remain illegals (IIRC that's your position) but that's temporary. The current interpretation of the XIV Amendment says that the illegality that you would prefer disappears in one generation, since their  US-born children are US citizens at birth.

If we're not going to throw them out (which we are not), then we need to account for them in one way or another.

Secure/control the borders.

Re-instate the Bracero program.

Begin a legitimization program with those illegal aliens with deep roots in this country and no criminal history.

That's simply a realistic approach, fine tuning what Reagan tried to do, and that's been my position for well over a decade.

Luis, that is an entirely fair opinion, honestly held and expressed, which is shared by many of today's Republicans.  I won't argue for or against it here but I know it differs fundamentally from the Democratic viewpoint of putting all of those people on the seemingly unlimited "dependency reservation" complete with unmonitored voting privileges, welfare perks, etc.  If the last standing Republican has this viewpoint, I will vote for that Republican.  Otherwise, as I see it, hope is gone.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 10:30:38 pm
Luis, that is an entirely fair opinion, honestly held and expressed, which is shared by many of today's Republicans.  I won't argue for or against it here but I know it differs fundamentally from the Democratic viewpoint of putting all of those people on the seemingly unlimited "dependency reservation" complete with unmonitored voting privileges, welfare perks, etc.  If the last standing Republican has this viewpoint, I will vote for that Republican.  Otherwise, as I see it, hope is gone.

"In [my] book I talk about the need to enforce the borders. A great country needs to enforce borders for national security purposes, public health purposes, and the rule of law. First and foremost we have to do that. Secondly we need a narrow family petitioning so that it’s the same as every other country, spouses and minor children, not this broad definition of spouse, minor children, adult siblings and adult parents, that crowds out what we need, which are economic driven immigrants. Those who come here to work, to invest in their dreams in this country, to create opportunities for all of us, and that’s what we need to get to.

The plan also includes a path to legal status. I have not seen anybody, and I know there’s disagreement here–some of these people are angry about this, and, look, I kinda feel your pain….The simple fact is we are not going to deport 11 million people, We should give them a path to legal status, where they work. They don’t receive government benefits, where they don’t break the law, where they learn English, and where they make a contribution to our society. That’s what we need to be focused on." - Jeb Bush CPAC 2015
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: aligncare on March 03, 2015, 10:34:59 pm

It kills me to watch this country die the death of a thousand cuts. Nothing gets better, it's a continual spiral to the bottom. The LIVs are oblivious. The average person doesn't care. Republicans control 2/3s of the government and are still powerless.

To heck with it. Burn it to the ground.

I understand your frustration, but I cannot agree with the latter. So many reasons I could never vote democrat.

I work with a doctor from Ukraine, heavy Russian accent. It's a real kick talking to him.

He's very conservative. A fan of Levin, as am I. And he's very concerned about the direction America is headed. He can't understand how we possibly could have voted for Obama twice – a communist – in America!

You get an interesting perspective talking with someone who's lived under communism. He tells me he knows he may speak openly in criticizing Obama here.

But, he also said that in Russia today any criticism of Putin is whispered "in the kitchen or the bathroom." The fear of speaking out is palpable. Even Catholic priests have been recruited by the KGB to inform about things heard in the confessional. Phone lines are tapped. Letters are opened.

I could never vote Democrat. They would head us down that same road.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 03, 2015, 10:39:15 pm
Say what you want or even call me unpatriotic or whatever, but I refuse to vote for someone who I do no feel is qualified for the job.  I am tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils.  I will not vote for Christie, Bush, Rubio, and the like.  It is way past time to vote with our conscious and NOT vote strictly because of party.  The conservative party that I voted for long ago seems to no longer exist.  Why is that?  Because too many of the GOPe have this mindset that if they are more moderate they will appeal to more voters.  Sorry, but I am one that doesn't agree.  The reason that the GOPe doesn't attract more voters is because they have lost their conservative way based on the principles upon which this country was founded and have allowed the slow dismantling of our Constitution over time all in the name of political correctness! 

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 10:39:54 pm
I understand your frustration, but I cannot agree with the latter. So many reasons I could never vote democrat.

I work with a doctor from Ukraine, heavy Russian accent. It's a real kick talking to him.

He's very conservative. A fan of Levin, as am I. And he's very concerned about the direction America is headed. He can't understand how we possibly could have voted for Obama twice – a communist – in America!

You get an interesting perspective talking with someone who's lived under communism. He tells me he knows he may speak openly in criticizing Obama here.

But, he also said that in Russia today any criticism of Putin is whispered "in the kitchen or the bathroom." The fear of speaking out is palpable. Even Catholic priests have been recruited by the KGB to inform about things heard in the confessional. Phone lines are tapped. Letters are opened.

I could never vote Democrat. They would head us down that same road.

My point is, we are headed down that road, it's just a matter of how quickly we arrive at the destination.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 10:42:00 pm
Once again, your memory is faulty, or you simply enjoy attacking me. Either way, you should check yourself.

I was gleefully surprised that the R's took the Senate. I didn't think it would happen. I said I'd give them time to be seated, and actually do things before I'd begin throwing rocks.

They've done some things, and the rocks are being pitched.

You - I haven't given up on the newly elected Republican Congress. I said I'd give them 6 months to a year. However, the early returns aren't good. I've already heard Republicans saying they can't do much with both chambers, but give them the presidency and Congress, and then they'll make things happen. Ugh. 12/17/2014

You hadn't given up on a GOP Congress weeks before they'd been sworn in.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 03, 2015, 10:47:13 pm
I understand your frustration, but I cannot agree with the latter. So many reasons I could never vote democrat.

I work with a doctor from Ukraine, heavy Russian accent. It's a real kick talking to him.

He's very conservative. A fan of Levin, as am I. And he's very concerned about the direction America is headed. He can't understand how we possibly could have voted for Obama twice – a communist – in America!

You get an interesting perspective talking with someone who's lived under communism. He tells me he knows he may speak openly in criticizing Obama here.

But, he also said that in Russia today any criticism of Putin is whispered "in the kitchen or the bathroom." The fear of speaking out is palpable. Even Catholic priests have been recruited by the KGB to inform about things heard in the confessional. Phone lines are tapped. Letters are opened.

I could never vote Democrat. They would head us down that same road.

Keep in mind that there are candidates who do NOT run under the Democratic or Republican umbrella.  IF America were to get fed up with their choices and elect people based on if they are in agreement with with they stand for and how they voted instead of voting just for the sake of voting for party, we wouldn't be in the mess that we're in.  I find it disheartening that the qualifications to "qualify" and get on a ballot are different for a third party candidate then there is for a Republican or Democrat.

Years ago, I attended the Republican Club in my area during what eventually became the McCain vs. Obama race.  It was amazing that I gathered solid information as to the voting records and their opinions on issues and passed the information out and even though many liked the others candidates better they stated that they wouldn't vote for them because they didn't think they could win.  Really?  If the mindset was changed for people to vote their conscious things might be a whole lot different.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 10:51:04 pm
You - I haven't given up on the newly elected Republican Congress. I said I'd give them 6 months to a year. However, the early returns aren't good. I've already heard Republicans saying they can't do much with both chambers, but give them the presidency and Congress, and then they'll make things happen. Ugh. 12/17/2014

You hadn't given up on a GOP Congress weeks before they'd been sworn in.

Seriously? Your comprehension skills are that bad? You're wrong time after time, so like some OCD pre-pubescent you're trying to goad me into just telling you to go do something impossible with yourself?

What does "haven't given up mean"? Maybe English is your second language so it escapes you?

I was complaining that the early rhetoric from Republicans matched their current performance. I said I'd give them 6 months, I gave them 2. But, they were in a hurry to show me they weren't going to do anything but capitulate.

I'm flattered you felt a need to search my posts, I only wish that you had the ability to understand what you read.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: truth_seeker on March 03, 2015, 10:55:13 pm
Say what you want or even call me unpatriotic or whatever, but I refuse to vote for someone who I do no feel is qualified for the job.  I am tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils.  I will not vote for Christie, Bush, Rubio, and the like.  It is way past time to vote with our conscious and NOT vote strictly because of party.  The conservative party that I voted for long ago seems to no longer exist.  Why is that?  Because too many of the GOPe have this mindset that if they are more moderate they will appeal to more voters.  Sorry, but I am one that doesn't agree.  The reason that the GOPe doesn't attract more voters is because they have lost their conservative way based on the principles upon which this country was founded and have allowed the slow dismantling of our Constitution over time all in the name of political correctness!
You still haven't cited the specific policies and actions taken by Bush as Governor of your state, that you oppose.

Did Bush's democrat opponent's position please you, where Bush's did not? There are no other viable options.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 03, 2015, 11:13:12 pm
Seriously? Your comprehension skills are that bad? You're wrong time after time, so like some OCD pre-pubescent you're trying to goad me into just telling you to go do something impossible with yourself?

What does "haven't given up mean"? Maybe English is your second language so it escapes you?

I was complaining that the early rhetoric from Republicans matched their current performance. I said I'd give them 6 months, I gave them 2. But, they were in a hurry to show me they weren't going to do anything but capitulate.

I'm flattered you felt a need to search my posts, I only wish that you had the ability to understand what you read.

If you can describe my position as advocating open borders, then I can call yours condemning.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 11:16:32 pm
If you can describe my position as advocating open borders, then I can call yours condemning.

You forgot neener, neener, neener.

You're a child, incapable of serious thought, or real contribution.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 03, 2015, 11:23:55 pm

You're a child, incapable of serious thought, or real contribution.


That's a pretty sad statement, Relic. 

You absolutely know that's not true.  In fact, leveled at Luis, it only makes it more ludicrous.

And if I know it....pretty near everybody else does too.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 03, 2015, 11:33:30 pm
That's a pretty sad statement, Relic. 

You absolutely know that's not true.  In fact, leveled at Luis, it only makes it more ludicrous.

And if I know it....pretty near everybody else does too.

So, are you saying that if even you can perceive something, anyone can, (or should)? So, wouldn't that make any assertion you make suspect because of the context you previously laid out?

Have you followed the thread? According to the poster you're so anxious to defend, I'm a liar, I'm on my second handle, I'm in favor of mass deportations, and I was condemning the new Congress before they were seated, (all incorrect).

Hey, if that's the kind of deep thinker you value, it's ok. There are plenty of similar deep  thinkers in the GOPe, so you can be comfortable voting for them.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: mystery-ak on March 04, 2015, 12:14:16 am
ENOUGH
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 12:23:25 am
So, are you saying that if even you can perceive something, anyone can, (or should)? So, wouldn't that make any assertion you make suspect because of the context you previously laid out?

Have you followed the thread? According to the poster you're so anxious to defend, I'm a liar, I'm on my second handle, I'm in favor of mass deportations, and I was condemning the new Congress before they were seated, (all incorrect).

Hey, if that's the kind of deep thinker you value, it's ok. There are plenty of similar deep  thinkers in the GOPe, so you can be comfortable voting for them.

You are a liar.

Quote
"... you'll get your open borders."

I've never once argued in favor of open borders.

So that's a lie.

Quote
You're a staunch conservative, until your (sp) you're not.


The only "staunch conservative" is the guy claiming to be a "staunch conservative", since no one else will ever rise to the definition of what constitutes a "staunch conservative" to anyone claiming to be a "staunch conservative".

I'm conservative enough to satisfy my definition of what constitutes a conservative, and I am staunchly consistent in my beliefs. 

Quote
Just like your rulers in the GOPe.

How incredibly sophomoric.

P.S. I do hope that you will forgive my correction. I'm a stickler for grammar and spelling.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: evadR on March 04, 2015, 12:23:49 am
Designed by patriots,
run by traitors.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Bigun on March 04, 2015, 12:29:16 am
Designed by patriots,
run by traitors.

Well said and absolutely true!  :beer:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Oceander on March 04, 2015, 12:34:42 am
No amount of real conservative@ bellicosity, threats, wishful thinking  can overcome the Constitutional requirement for a 2/3 vote to override a Constitutional Presidential veto.

Replacing Boehner, McConnell and shouting louder, and making bolder threats won't change the Constitution, so often mentioned by them.

The other time tested method of governing, has been negotiations, compromises, etc. Reagan compromised often. 





:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Oceander on March 04, 2015, 12:36:47 am
With all due respect, the personal insults and ad hominems are getting tiresome.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Bigun on March 04, 2015, 12:42:13 am
With all due respect, the personal insults and ad hominems are getting tiresome.

So are the surrender monkeys!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Oceander on March 04, 2015, 12:44:55 am
So are the surrender monkeys!


The wanna-be martyrs are even worse.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: raml on March 04, 2015, 12:46:02 am
I will never vote for a democrat but I also won't vote for a democrat clothed as a republican imposter. I will vote my conscience and do a write in or vote another party and that is what a patriot would do and that is what I will do. Most of you here are not what I always knew as a true republican when I worked for the republican party you are way way to liberal. Times don't change as much as you think they do and neither should the party. Replacing Bonehead and mcconnell and their lap boys would change things a lot.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Carling on March 04, 2015, 12:47:19 am

You're a guy in a GOP website admitting that you would for Democrats while calling others RINOs.

That tells me a lot about you, but only because you told me.

The personal attack came when you lied about my wanting open borders.

Who was the poster that used a racial slur on you, Luis?  Was it this same poster? 

I agree with what you posted, by the way.  The audacity of a so-called "conservative" calling others RINOs, and then stating he'd vote Democrat if he doesn't get his way, is about as hypocritical as it gets on this board.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Oceander on March 04, 2015, 12:48:22 am
(https://agirlnamedcarliebrowne.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/charliebrownlucyfootball.gif)

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 04, 2015, 01:17:35 am
I will never vote for a democrat but I also won't vote for a democrat clothed as a republican imposter. I will vote my conscience and do a write in or vote another party and that is what a patriot would do and that is what I will do. Most of you here are not what I always knew as a true republican when I worked for the republican party you are way way to liberal. Times don't change as much as you think they do and neither should the party. Replacing Bonehead and mcconnell and their lap boys would change things a lot.

We're headed to the same place, regardless of who is in charge. The plan is working perfectly. Set the people against each other, while the political class steals us blind, and fundamentally transforms the country.

Our only real choice is D or R. It's been demonstrated over and over in the past few years that it's not really a choice at all. Seriously, what is the value in voting R? To slow the march to an overbearing, all controlling state? In the meantime, the media can blame the R's for all of the ills while the liberal statist agenda is put in place. What exactly are the R's doing different than the D's would do? Oh, right, the R's bluster a lot. That's nice.

I've grown tired of the slow march, let's get it over with already.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 04, 2015, 01:19:29 am
P.S. I do hope that you will forgive my correction. I'm a stickler for grammar and spelling.

You're a child.
I sincerely wish you get exactly what I think you deserve.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Lando Lincoln on March 04, 2015, 02:11:02 am
With all due respect, the personal insults and ad hominems are getting tiresome.

Agree.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jIMt7n8-694/TmKqsfVKs9I/AAAAAAAAAmI/4HDik82FCnk/s1600/Pogo-We_Have_Met_the_Enemy_and_He_Is_Us-large.jpg)
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Carling on March 04, 2015, 02:38:28 am
You're a child.
I sincerely wish you get exactly what I think you deserve.

Luis isn't your enemy, although if you do vote for Democrats as you said you would, I consider you an enemy to the USA.

A traitor, basically, as well as a useful idiot advancing communism.  Is that childish?  If so, it's my opinion on your act on this board, which seems to be all about constructing strawmen, and then lashing out when called on your hypocrisy. 
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Fishrrman on March 04, 2015, 03:13:37 am
Relic wrote above:
[[ The Republicans were given the House and the Senate because the people wanted to put a check on Obama's executive orders, amnesty in particular. Now that the Republicans have shown their hand, and it's clear they will capitulate to Obama, the people will respond appropriately.
There is little chance the Republicans will win the presidency, or hold the Senate in 2016. ]]


I was predicting exactly this months before the election last November.

As it stands now, the Republican party is headed for what may be a crushing defeat in 2016 -- a remarkable "reversal of fortune" in but two years.

If Scott Walker becomes the candidate, perhaps, just perhaps, they'll yet have a chance.

But if Jeb Bush wins the nomination, the Pubbie's fate is assured. After 2016, they won't win the presidency again, and I will go on record predicting that the "Republican party" in America won't last twenty years afterwards.

In any case, the Republicans of 2015 have created an amazing legacy for themselves:
The first Lame Duck Majority Congress in the history of The United States.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Oceander on March 04, 2015, 03:14:20 am
Agree.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jIMt7n8-694/TmKqsfVKs9I/AAAAAAAAAmI/4HDik82FCnk/s1600/Pogo-We_Have_Met_the_Enemy_and_He_Is_Us-large.jpg)


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Fishrrman on March 04, 2015, 03:22:19 am
Luis wrote above (regarding Relic):
[[ You've been condemning this Congress since before they were sworn into office. ]]

So did I, probably before anyone else in this forum.

And, to date, the new "Republican" Congress is behaving exactly as I predicted!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 03:33:46 am
You're a child.
I sincerely wish you get exactly what I think you deserve.

I did.

A vote.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 03:38:29 am
How many election cycles of useless Democrats and Republicans need to pass before people finally realize we need more parties?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: evadR on March 04, 2015, 03:42:33 am
Luis wrote above (regarding Relic):
[[ You've been condemning this Congress since before they were sworn into office. ]]

So did I, probably before anyone else in this forum.

And, to date, the new "Republican" Congress is behaving exactly as I predicted!

We should have been saying "I hope they fail" since their agenda has proven to be everything we voted against.

How many times will us Charlie Browns be taken?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 03:45:44 am
How many times will us Charlie Browns be taken?

As many times as you allow.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: sinkspur on March 04, 2015, 03:50:57 am
How many election cycles of useless Democrats and Republicans need to pass before people finally realize we need more parties?

Go ahead and start one. I'm sure you'll get a room full of people following you and all of you will convince yourselves that there are just millions of Americans out there dying to hang on your every word.

History is against you, but you're welcome to try.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 03:56:06 am
Go ahead and start one. I'm sure you'll get a room full of people following you and all of you will convince yourselves that there are just millions of Americans out there dying to hang on your every word.

History is against you, but you're welcome to try.

The only other solution is to tear down our government and start from the bottom. You won't correct the problems we face from within the main party, but you're welcome to try.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:05:50 am
Go ahead and start one. I'm sure you'll get a room full of people following you and all of you will convince yourselves that there are just millions of Americans out there dying to hang on your every word.

History is against you, but you're welcome to try.

France has done so well in their multiple Party system.

How about the Weimar Republic?

I believe there were 25+ political parties in place creating a divided and weal Reichstag.

The GOP's minority right wing wants to control the Party by threatening to withdraw its support and ceding control over to the left if the majority of the Party does not embrace their agenda.

The GOP is divided and weak as a result of the actions of its minority wing.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: sinkspur on March 04, 2015, 04:08:38 am
The only other solution is to tear down our government and start from the bottom. You won't correct the problems we face from within the main party, but you're welcome to try.

I don't see the problems as intractable or as irreversible as you. "Tearing down the government" is never going to happen.

And a third party hasn't been viable for 160 years.

So, you're tilting at windmills.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:13:25 am
And a third party hasn't been viable for 160 years.

That doesn't make them a waste of time. The United States is still an infant compared to a lot of countries; 160 years isn't even that long of a time. Having been stuck on two parties for a while does not mean that trend is unbreakable.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:22:33 am
France has done so well in their multiple Party system.

How about the Weimar Republic?

I believe there were 25+ political parties in place creating a divided and weal Reichstag.

The GOP's minority right wing wants to control the Party by threatening to withdraw its support and ceding control over to the left if the majority of the Party does not embrace their agenda.

The GOP is divided and weak as a result of the actions of its minority wing.

What a lot of people here don't realize is believe it or not a lot of people on the left are disgusted and put off by the Democrats as well. Similar to people here they vote for their Democrat representatives out of fear that if they don't the Republicans will dominate. The Democrat and Republican parties are controlled by the same elites, so it doesn't matter who wins a Democrat vs Republican ticket. A shift to alternative parties would involve many on the right and on the left.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Carling on March 04, 2015, 04:40:07 am
Dex4974 senses chum in the water.  This is where his type tries to divide the GOP even further.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:42:41 am
Dex4974 senses chum in the water.  This is where his type tries to divide the GOP even further.

I can't even be disappointed; I just feel bad for you.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 04, 2015, 04:50:29 am
The only other solution is to tear down our government and start from the bottom. You won't correct the problems we face from within the main party, but you're welcome to try.

That's exactly what NOT to do!  There's nothing wrong with our system of government and checks and balances...as written.

We have a Republican Party leadership that has made a conscious decision to let the court system rule against Obama's overreach.  In the meantime, the American people are getting more fed up and angry with this presidency.

When you add those two facts up...going into 2016, it would follow that the Republicans will destroy whomever the Democrats put up.

THAT'S the strategy, it seems.   :shrug:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:55:09 am
THAT'S the strategy, it seems.   :shrug:

Are you so sure a Republican land slide will result in the changes we all want to see happen?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 04, 2015, 05:01:33 am
Are you so sure a Republican land slide will result in the changes we all want to see happen?

The only 'changes' that I want to see is a 180 degree reversal of whatever Obama did.  Every Executive Order rescinded.  Free market healthcare restored.


....and then I want every one of these MF'ers rounded up and ...........     :smokin:

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 05:03:57 am
The only 'changes' that I want to see is a 180 degree reversal of whatever Obama did.  Every Executive Order rescinded.  Free market healthcare restored.

Do you think all of that will happen when the Republicans are in control? Will your interests be properly represented?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 04, 2015, 05:48:26 am
Do you think all of that will happen when the Republicans are in control? Will your interests be properly represented?


Like Reagan once said, if you get 75% of what you want, you've won.  (paraphrased)
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 05:49:48 am
I hope your optimism is well placed.  :beer:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Carling on March 04, 2015, 06:02:38 am
I can't even be disappointed; I just feel bad for you.

Why, because I pegged you from the start?   :shrug:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 06:06:51 am
Why, because I pegged you from the start?   :shrug:

No, because you will spend the rest of your life seeing the world in black and white.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Carling on March 04, 2015, 09:48:15 am
No, because you will spend the rest of your life seeing the world in black and white.

I live in the gray regions.  I also know your act here.   It's so predictable, and I'm a bit baffled why the mods here can't see it. 
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: evadR on March 04, 2015, 12:58:31 pm
What a lot of people here don't realize is believe it or not a lot of people on the left are disgusted and put off by the Democrats as well. Similar to people here they vote for their Democrat representatives out of fear that if they don't the Republicans will dominate. The Democrat and Republican parties are controlled by the same elites, so it doesn't matter who wins a Democrat vs Republican ticket. A shift to alternative parties would involve many on the right and on the left.
What I see among my dimocrat friends is that they are disgusted and put off but they blame the republicans.
Regarding third parties, the only effect I've seen is they cause the republican candidate to loose by syphoning off just enough votes to cause the loss.  Witness the latest election for senator in Virginia.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 04, 2015, 01:11:35 pm
I live in the gray regions.  I also know your act here.   It's so predictable, and I'm a bit baffled why the mods here can't see it.

"See" what?  What do the 'mods' not see?

A different POV?  Opinion?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Dex's presence here, IMO. 
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: aligncare on March 04, 2015, 02:00:16 pm
Interesting turn to this thread.

However, what people are forgetting is that we are laboring under a new paradigm. A first ever black president in a minority black nation hypersensitive about race because of a racial legacy of slavery and segregation.

A white president acting this lawlessly – as Obama clearly is – would've been impeached long ago by a Congress unhampered by political correctness. And as I've said many times before, political correctness will be the death of America.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 04, 2015, 02:15:32 pm
Interesting turn to this thread.

However, what people are forgetting is that we are laboring under a new paradigm. A first ever black president in a minority black nation hypersensitive about race because of a racial legacy of slavery and segregation.

A white president acting this lawlessly – as Obama clearly is – would've been impeached long ago by a Congress unhampered by political correctness. And as I've said many times before, political correctness will be the death of America.

Good point. I guess I must not be racist enough, because I often forget Obama is black, but I never forget that he's a Marxist and a muslim supporter.

The Democrats are exploiting what they always have used, identity politics. The next president will be a Democrat woman, and the Republicans won't dare stand in the way of the first woman president.

Political correctness started out as being incredibly silly, something no one would ever take seriously. Who would have guessed it would be the demise of a great nation?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: rangerrebew on March 04, 2015, 02:27:56 pm
We're not talking about a "start," we're talking about a continuation.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: aligncare on March 04, 2015, 02:35:36 pm
Good point. I guess I must not be racist enough, because I often forget Obama is black, but I never forget that he's a Marxist and a muslim supporter.

The Democrats are exploiting what they always have used, identity politics. The next president will be a Democrat woman, and the Republicans won't dare stand in the way of the first woman president.

Political correctness started out as being incredibly silly, something no one would ever take seriously. Who would have guessed it would be the demise of a great nation?

 :thumbsup:

Republicans have to make a decision regarding the 2016 election. Does the GOP make it a strategic election and go along with political correctness by nominating a woman in the first or second spot of the presidential ticket, or do they go with the non-politically correct action of nominating the best person for the job?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Fishrrman on March 04, 2015, 03:18:22 pm
Dex wrote above:
[[ The only other solution is to tear down our government and start from the bottom. You won't correct the problems we face from within the main party ]]

I usually ignore your posts, Dex -- just skip right over them.
But with this one, you're comin' around.

I agree that we must "start from the bottom", the "bottom" in this case being the U.S. Constitution itself.

That's why I fully support an Article V convention of the States, which would hopefully be populated with individuals from the States, and NOT from the DC government. They are the creators of the problem, and cannot be trusted to fix things -- not even most of the Republican members. They should be politely told to "stay out of it".

A good place to get some background would be Mark Levin's "The Liberty Amendments". One doesn't have to read the entire book -- just read the proposed amendments themselves.

And of course, here's one that Mr. Levin forgot to include -- my proposal that establishes a Constitutional "Right to Privacy":
===============================
Citizens protected by this Constitution possess an inalienable right to privacy in their persons, businesses, and homes, and while they are in public.

It shall be a violation of this Constitution for the United States or for the several States to violate or invade the individual privacy of citizens by use of physical, mechanical, or electronic means or by the use of devices on land, on water, below the ground, or from the air.

This protection shall extend to all lawful communications and acts by an individual citizen or between two or more citizens, including content that is spoken, written, or electronically transmitted. It shall extend to citizens regardless of their location, whether in private or in public.

The only exceptions will be as governed by the Fourth Amendment of this Constitution.
===============================

There ya go.
Four short paragraphs that anyone can understand.
Yet they will breathe new life into the Fourth Amendment, which has been under severe attack in the digital age.

I'd like to know who on this forum would oppose such an idea?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 03:18:34 pm
Interesting turn to this thread.

However, what people are forgetting is that we are laboring under a new paradigm. A first ever black president in a minority black nation hypersensitive about race because of a racial legacy of slavery and segregation.

A white president acting this lawlessly – as Obama clearly is – would've been impeached long ago by a Congress unhampered by political correctness. And as I've said many times before, political correctness will be the death of America.

This is one of hundreds of petitions circulating at the time. They're mostly still online since things rarely disappear from the net.

It's a list of grievances, impeachable offenses and "crimes" committed by GWB and Dick Cheney as perceived by the left:

Quote
1. Violating the United Nations Charter by launching an illegal "War of Aggression" against Iraq without cause, using fraud to sell the war to Congress and the public, misusing government funds to begin bombing without Congressional authorization, and subjecting our military personnel to unnecessary harm, debilitating injuries, and deaths.

2. Violating U.S. and international law by authorizing the torture of thousands of captives, resulting in dozens of deaths, and keeping prisoners hidden from the International Committee of the Red Cross.

3. Violating the Constitution by arbitrarily detaining Americans, legal residents, and non-Americans, without due process, without charge, and without access to counsel.

4. Violating the Geneva Conventions by targeting civilians, journalists, hospitals, and ambulances, and using illegal weapons, including white phosphorous, depleted uranium, and a new type of napalm.

5. Violating U.S. law and the Constitution through widespread wiretapping of the phone calls and emails of Americans without a warrant.

6. Violating the Constitution by using "signing statements" to defy hundreds of laws passed by Congress.

7. Violating U.S. and state law by obstructing honest elections in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006.

8. Violating U.S. law by using paid propaganda and disinformation, selectively and misleadingly leaking classified information, and exposing the identity of a covert CIA operative working on sensitive WMD proliferation for political retribution.

9. Subverting the Constitution and abusing Presidential power by asserting a "Unitary Executive Theory" giving unlimited powers to the President, by obstructing efforts by Congress and the Courts to review and restrict Presidential actions, and by promoting and signing legislation negating the Bill of Rights and the Writ of Habeas Corpus.

10. Gross negligence in failing to assist New Orleans residents after Hurricane Katrina, in ignoring urgent warnings of an Al Qaeda attack prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and in increasing air pollution causing global warming.

Before that, we impeached Clinton.

This next one, is aimed at Bush I and Dan Quayle:

Quote
Charging
George H.W.Bush, J. Danforth Quayle, James Baker,
Richard Cheney, William Webster, Colin Powell,
Norman Schwarzkopf and Others to be named

With
Crimes Against Peace, War Crimes, Crimes Against
Humanity and Other Criminal Acts and High Crimes in
Violation of the Charter of the United Nations,
International Law, the Constitution of the United States
and Laws made in Pursuance Thereof.
Only the United States could have carried out this destruction of Iraq, and the war was conducted almost exclusively by the United States. This conduct violated the UN Charter, the Hague and Geneva Conventions, the Nuremberg Charter, and the laws of armed conflict.

The conduct violates Protocol I Additional, Article 51.4 to the Geneva Conventions of 1977.
The conduct violates Protocol I Additional, Article 56, to the Geneva Convention, 1977.

The conduct violates the Charter of the United Nations and the Constitution and laws of the United States.

The conduct violates the Constitution and laws of the United States, all committed to engage in the other impeachable offenses set forth in this Complaint.

12. The United States waged war on the environment.

As a result of these acts, thousands of people died, many more suffered illness and permanent injury. As a single illustration, Iraq consumed infant milk formula at a rate of 2,500 tons per month during the first seven months of 1990. From November 1, 1990, to February 7, 1991, Iraq was able to import only 17 tons. Its own productive capacity was destroyed. Many Iraqis believed that President Bush intended that their infants die because he targeted their food supply. The Red Crescent Society of Iraq estimated 3,000 infant deaths as of February 7, 1991, resulting from infant milk formula and infant medication shortages.

    The American people and their democratic institutions were deprived of information essential to sound judgment and were regimented, despite profound concem, to support a major neocolonial intervention and war of aggression. The principal purpose of the First Amendment to the United States was to assure the press and the people the right to criticize their government with impunity. This purpose has been effectively destroyed in relation to U.S. military aggression since the press was denied access to assaults on Grenada, Libya, Panama and, now on a much greater scale, against Iraq.

This conduct violates the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and is part of a pattern of conduct intended to create support for conduct constituting crimes against peace and war crimes.

The members of the International War Crimes Tribunal, meeting in New York, have carefully considered the Initial Complaint of the Commission of Inquiry dated May 6, 1991 against President George H. W. Bush, Vice President J. Danforth Quayle, Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney, Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf Commander of the Allied Forces in the Persian Gulf, and others named in the Complaint charging them with nineteen separate crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity in violation of the Charter of the United Nations, the 1949 Geneva Conventions, the First Protocol thereto, and other international agreements and customary international law:

          having the right and obligation as citizens of the world to sit in judgment regarding violations of international humanitarian law;

          having heard the testimony from various Commissions of Inquiry hearings held within their own countries and/or elsewhere during the past year and having received reports from numerous other Commission hearings which recite the evidence there gathered;

          having been provided with documentary evidence, eyewitness statements, photos, videotapes, special reports, expert analyses and summaries of evidence available to the Commission; having access to all evidence, knowledge, and expert opinion in the Commission files or available to the Commission;

          having been provided by the Commission, or elsewhere obtained, various books, articles, and other written materials on various aspects of events and conditions in the Persian Gulf and military and arms establishments;

          having considered newspaper coverage, magazine and periodical reports, special publications, T.V., radio, and other media coverage and public statements by the accused, other public officials and other public materials;

          having heard the presentations of the Commission of Inquiry in public hearing on February 29, 1992, the testimony and evidence there presented; and having met, considered and deliberated with each other and with Commission staff and having considered all the evidence that is relevant to the nineteen charges of criminal conduct alleged in the Initial Complaint make the following findings.

Findings

      The members of the International War Crimes Tribunal finds each of the named accused Guilty on the basis of the evidence against them and that each of the nineteen crimes alleged in the Initial Complaint, attached hereto, has been established to have been committed beyond a reasonable doubt.

      The members believe that it is imperative if there is ever to be peace that power be accountable for its criminal acts and we condemn in the strongest possible terms those found guilty of the charges herein. We urge the Commission of Inquiry and all people to act on recommendations developed by the Commission to hold power accountable and to secure social justice on which lasting peace must be based.

Recommendations

      The Members urge the immediate revocation of all embargoes, sanctions and penalties against Iraq because they constitute a continuing crime against humanity.

      The Members urge public action to prevent new aggressions by the United States threatened against Iraq, Libya, Cuba, Haiti, North Korea, Pakistan and other countries and the Palestine people; fullest condemnation of any threat or use of military technology against life, both civilian and military, as was used by the United States against the people of Iraq.

      The Members urge that the power of the United Nations Security Council, which was blatantly manipulated by the U.S. to authorize illegal military action and sanctions, be vested in the General Assembly; that all permanent members be removed and that the right of veto be eliminated as undemocratic and contrary to the basic principles of the U.N. Charter.

      The Members urge the Commission to provide for the permanent preservation of the reports, evidence, and materials gathered to make them available to others, and to seek ways to provide the widest possible distribution of the truth about the U.S. assault on Iraq.
Charges of Other Countries

      In accordance with the last paragraph of the Initial Complaint designated Scope of Inquiry, the Commission has gathered substantial evidence of criminal acts by governments and individual officials in addition to those formally presented here. Formal charges have been drafted by some Commissions of Inquiry against other governments in addition to the United States. Those charges have not been acted upon here. The Commission of Inquiry or any of its national components may choose to pursue such other charges at some future time. The Members urge all involved to exert their utmost effort to prevent recurrences of violations by other governments that were not considered here.

I don't think anyone tried to impeach Carter for anything other than just being an inept buffoon

There were petitions to impeach Reagan because of Iran-Contra and a dozen other grievances.

We wanted to impeach Ford for pardoning Nixon.

We impeached Nixon.

There was talk of impeaching Johnson over the Vietnam war.

The point is that in essence, in the opinion of the opposition arty, every President can be impeached

The dispute over whether or not Obama can, by Executive action, do the things that he's been doing must be first settled in the Court system, before impeachment can be considered.

That's why I believe the GOP is letting things work through the Court system.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Fishrrman on March 04, 2015, 03:21:30 pm
sinkspur wrote above:
[[ And a third party hasn't been viable for 160 years. ]]

In 1855, the Republican party WAS "the third party", not yet viable on the national stage.

And what happened to the "second" party (actually, it might have been the "first" party, preceding the democrats) in the next few years?

It happened before in American history.
It can happen again.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Fishrrman on March 04, 2015, 03:23:30 pm
Dex wrote above:
[[ Are you so sure a Republican land slide will result in the changes we all want to see happen? ]]

Folks, got to admit Dex hit a good one here.

We JUST HAD a "Republican landslide" only a few months ago.

How much has really changed?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 03:40:09 pm
Dex wrote above:
[[ Are you so sure a Republican land slide will result in the changes we all want to see happen? ]]

Folks, got to admit Dex hit a good one here.

We JUST HAD a "Republican landslide" only a few months ago.

How much has really changed?

They took office two months ago.

How much change did you expect in eight weeks?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 03:56:57 pm
They took office two months ago.

How much change did you expect in eight weeks?

When is the last time Republicans notably reduced spending or the size of our government? 
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Longiron on March 04, 2015, 03:57:18 pm
They took office two months ago.

How much change did you expect in eight weeks?

Keep doing the same thing over and over and EXPECT different results. That IS THE answer, WE ALL JUST KEEP MISSING THE point??? DAMM CONSERVATIVES!!!! :beer:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:07:40 pm
Keep doing the same thing over and over and EXPECT different results. That IS THE answer, WE ALL JUST KEEP MISSING THE point??? DAMM CONSERVATIVES!!!! :beer:

How much change did you expect to see in two months?

It's a legitimate question.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:13:36 pm
When is the last time Republicans notably reduced spending or the size of our government?

This is a partial listing of what the GOP accomplished in December that fits your question:

They established no new funding for Obamacare.

They blocked funding of the risk corridors that, under the Affordable Care Act, could lead to a government bailout of the insurance companies.

They maintained all the existing pro-life policy and funding provisions and added three more while cutting the funds for the Independent Payment Advisory Board (which is the body that would be recommending any rationing of health care) by $10 million.

They cut funding for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency by $60 million, which is the fifth consecutive year the agency’s budget has been cut and may finally convince the bureaucrats who run the place they cannot go beyond what they are legally authorized to do without congressional approval.

They cut the allocation of federal dollars to the IRS by $345.6 million, prohibiting it from targeting organizations because of the way they chose to exercise their First Amendment rights or on an ideological basis, punishes it for its profligate abuse of taxpayer dollars on expensive, needless videos and conferences at luxury resorts, and prohibits the White House from ordering the review of any organization's tax exempt status.

So, in response to your question... last December.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Bigun on March 04, 2015, 04:18:54 pm
When is the last time Republicans notably reduced spending or the size of our government?

President Calvin Coolidge was the last to actually CUT the federal budget!!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: DCPatriot on March 04, 2015, 04:19:18 pm
How much change did you expect to see in two months?

It's a legitimate question.

What made ObamaCare such a travesty for the Democrats is how it became law.  Their total focus and attention was to get it passed anyway they could. 

They had a super majority...stronger than the one the GOP currently enjoys, and 'used' all their goodwill on the ACA.

Looking at the past 6 years...and looking forward for at least the next 2 years, the public sentiments toward Obamacare are now mostly negative.

But my point is that they came out of the gate preening and telling us "Elections have consequences.  We won.  You lost".  [dead with it]

And who really 'won' the voters' confidence?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Bigun on March 04, 2015, 04:20:29 pm
This is a partial listing of what the GOP accomplished in December that fits your question:

They established no new funding for Obamacare.

They blocked funding of the risk corridors that, under the Affordable Care Act, could lead to a government bailout of the insurance companies.

They maintained all the existing pro-life policy and funding provisions and added three more while cutting the funds for the Independent Payment Advisory Board (which is the body that would be recommending any rationing of health care) by $10 million.

They cut funding for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency by $60 million, which is the fifth consecutive year the agency’s budget has been cut and may finally convince the bureaucrats who run the place they cannot go beyond what they are legally authorized to do without congressional approval.

They cut the allocation of federal dollars to the IRS by $345.6 million, prohibiting it from targeting organizations because of the way they chose to exercise their First Amendment rights or on an ideological basis, punishes it for its profligate abuse of taxpayer dollars on expensive, needless videos and conferences at luxury resorts, and prohibits the White House from ordering the review of any organization's tax exempt status.

So, in response to your question... last December.

NOPE! Reductions in the rate of growth don't count!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:20:38 pm
So, in response to your question... last December.

This might sound absurd to you, but those figures are relatively small fry in the scope of things. I don't consider any of that a notable cut to government size or spending.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:23:24 pm
This might sound absurd to you, but those figures are relatively small fry in the scope of things. I don't consider any of that a notable cut to government size or spending.

Moving the post?

You placed no caveats on your question.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:25:33 pm
Moving the post?

You placed no caveats on your question.

I did say notable in my post, but perhaps I should have specified more. The 2015 federal budget will be about 4 trillion dollars; how are the Republicans planning on making a dent in that number?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:26:46 pm
NOPE! Reductions in the rate of growth don't count!

Nothing there says that those are reductions in the rate of growth.

The point is that you are all pretty much anti GOP, all posting in a GOP forum, and no matter what the GOP does, you all pounce on them.

There are more posts critical of the GOP in this forum than there are of the Democrats.

If Sun Tzu is correct and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then many here are friends of the DNC.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:27:28 pm
I did say notable in my post, but perhaps I should have specified more. The 2015 federal budget will be about 4 trillion dollars; how are the Republicans planning on making a dent in that number?

What would you suggest that they do?

You want to know how they will make a "dent" but you also said that @ half a billion in cuts is nothing.

Define a "dent".
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:27:51 pm
There are more posts critical of the GOP in this forum than there are of the Democrats.

I highly doubt that.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 04:29:10 pm
I highly doubt that.

You can, but it doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: evadR on March 04, 2015, 04:30:55 pm
I agree that we must "start from the bottom", the "bottom" in this case being the U.S. Constitution itself.

I agree, but it also means starting at the ground roots.

IF we can develop good solid conservative ideals in the schools and the local levels of government, then we can progress up the ladder until we develop a solid base of responsible citizens and pols.
IF we can't do that, then we're just peeing in the ocean.  We can put all the Rs we want in the Congress, we're not going to accomplish anything until we get a respectable number of conservative Rs.  The only way to accomplish that is from the ground up.

If it's a choice between a RINO and a dim, I will always vote for the RINO.
If it's a choice between a RINO and a republican conservative in the primary, I will always vote for the Conservative.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:31:44 pm
What would you suggest that they do?

Within the main party their hands are all but tied. Not having a lot of options to do what you're supposed to do does not excuse complete uselessness as a politician. You all know what my solution would be.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:32:40 pm
You want to know how they will make a "dent" but you also said that @ half a billion in cuts is nothing.

Define a "dent".

Get a calculator and tell me what percentage of the national budget that was.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: evadR on March 04, 2015, 04:33:34 pm
Define a "dent".

$2,426,385,299.99
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Bigun on March 04, 2015, 04:36:31 pm
Nothing there says that those are reductions in the rate of growth.

The point is that you are all pretty much anti GOP, all posting in a GOP forum, and no matter what the GOP does, you all pounce on them.

There are more posts critical of the GOP in this forum than there are of the Democrats.

If Sun Tzu is correct and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then many here are friends of the DNC.

That is patently untrue as well! A CUT is less money to spend this year than last year! A reduction in the rate of growth is still having more money to spend than last year but less than you asked for .

When the GOP actually stands up and FIGHTS I'm their number one cheerleader!  They haven't given me much opportunity for cheerleading lately!
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Relic on March 04, 2015, 04:46:00 pm
The undying loyalty to the Republican party is the flip side of all those people who worship Obama without regard to his performance in office.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 04:47:47 pm
The undying loyalty to the Republican party is the flip side of all those people who worship Obama without regard to his performance in office.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 05:13:15 pm
It's not undying loyalty to anyone or anything.

It's pragmatism and my belief that the GOP is the best available option to me at this time.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Dexter on March 04, 2015, 05:17:30 pm
It's pragmatism and my belief that the GOP is the best available option to me at this time.

Too bad you have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two bad options.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 05:33:12 pm
Too bad you have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two bad options.

That's your opinion.

Others see dropping out of the political system either by not voting, or by wasting their efforts with an empty, symbolic vote for some obscure minority Party or politician with zero chance of having any impact on anything as their best option.

Having no record of governance to judge their chosen Party/politicians, those people always get to take the high road since they can always claim that their party/guy would have been better.

Many here believe that Ted Cruz is the solution to all that is wrong, but his record is the same record of the GOP.

The difference between the two are speeches.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 04, 2015, 05:34:34 pm
Too bad you have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two bad options.

That's the problem.  Everyone seems to think that we don't have another option, but we do.  Third Party candidates.  Do some research on the various different third parties ... get involved ... support them ... vote!  If we could get all the disgruntled GOP/DEM/Independent voters to do so, I am confident we could seat a 3rd party in the oval office.

I particularly like and am a supporter of the Constitution Party.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: PzLdr on March 04, 2015, 05:50:07 pm
That's your opinion.

Others see dropping out of the political system either by not voting, or by wasting their efforts with an empty, symbolic vote for some obscure minority Party or politician with zero chance of having any impact on anything as their best option.

Having no record of governance to judge their chosen Party/politicians, those people always get to take the high road since they can always claim that their party/guy would have been better.

Many here believe that Ted Cruz is the solution to all that is wrong, but his record is the same record of the GOP.

The difference between the two are speeches.

Under your criteria, the Republican Party would have been stillborn in 1856, and Lincoln wouldn't have been on the ballot in 1860.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 06:28:45 pm
That's the problem.  Everyone seems to think that we don't have another option, but we do.  Third Party candidates.  Do some research on the various different third parties ... get involved ... support them ... vote!  If we could get all the disgruntled GOP/DEM/Independent voters to do so, I am confident we could seat a 3rd party in the oval office.

I particularly like and am a supporter of the Constitution Party.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

Barack Obama won with nearly 70 million votes in 2012. That same year the Constitution  Party got less than 125,000 votes.

Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 06:29:20 pm
Under your criteria, the Republican Party would have been stillborn in 1856, and Lincoln wouldn't have been on the ballot in 1860.

Then again, this is not 1856, is it?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Fishrrman on March 04, 2015, 07:09:40 pm
Luis wrote above:
[[ Then again, this is not 1856, is it? ]]

No, but if things keep going the way they're going in this country, we could be getting closer to "1861"...
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 04, 2015, 09:18:54 pm
Barack Obama won with nearly 70 million votes in 2012. That same year the Constitution  Party got less than 125,000 votes.

You just aren't getting it.  Yes, everyone is well aware that in the past 3rd parties have lost because people have always voted for "party" rather than the best candidate.  IF people were to vote their conscious things might be a whole lot different.  It is time to tell both parties to pack sand; we do have alternatives. 
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: libertybele on March 04, 2015, 09:22:28 pm
Luis wrote above:
[[ Then again, this is not 1856, is it? ]]

No, but if things keep going the way they're going in this country, we could be getting closer to "1861"...

I was thinking more like we are getting closer to 1775.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on March 04, 2015, 10:07:19 pm
You just aren't getting it.  Yes, everyone is well aware that in the past 3rd parties have lost because people have always voted for "party" rather than the best candidate.  IF people were to vote their conscious things might be a whole lot different.  It is time to tell both parties to pack sand; we do have alternatives.

I always vote when I'm conscious.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: truth_seeker on March 04, 2015, 10:11:43 pm
I always vote when I'm conscious.
I haven't been conscious since 1775, or is it 1856, or 1861 ?
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: evadR on March 04, 2015, 10:43:27 pm
I always vote when I'm conscious.
:laugh:The people on this forum are...well...and incredible source of humor.
Title: Re: The terrible, horrible, no good start for the Republicans
Post by: Lando Lincoln on March 05, 2015, 12:22:24 pm
I always vote when I'm conscious.

At least one problem is those who aren't when they do.