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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/26/palin-waterboarding-how-wed-baptize-terrorists-her/
NDIANAPOLIS — Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin fired up a crowd of thousands inside Lucas Oil Stadium Saturday night to kick off the National Rifle Association’s “Stand and Fight Rally,” saying Americans’ constitutional rights as envisioned by the founding fathers are under attack and policies like gun-free zones constitute “stupid on steroids.
“They knew that if the Second Amendment goes, the rest of the constitution is not far behind,” she said of the country’s founders.
In her approximately 12-minute address, Mrs. Palin also derided what she argued is akin to a ‘blame the messenger’ attitude on gun violence many Americans take today.
“Gun stores are an accomplice to crime,” she said, “and that fork made me fat.”
Mrs. Palin, plucked from relative political obscurity to be the 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee, still enjoys significant support among elements of the party’s base, and was at times received like a rock star inside the complex adjacent to the Indiana Convention Center, where much of the gun rights group’s annual meeting has taken place.
After 2008, she returned to Alaska and soon after quit her job, citing “frivolous” ethics probes and the associated legal costs. Her latest venture is a new show, “Amazing America,” on the Sportsman Channel.
A handful of potential 2016 GOP presidential contenders spoke or appeared in videotaped messages that aired Friday at the conference.
In addition to haranguing former New York City Mayor Michael I. Bloomberg’s gun control push and lampooning Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.’s recent testimony on Capitol Hill, she also tsk-tsked Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s suggestion last year to fire off shotgun blasts into the air.
“Just aim up in the air - that was his directive, his advice,” she
said. “Well, fine, Joe Squirt Gun, if your rapist is a bird.”
She also derided those who she said place an emphasis on political correctness in handling the country’s adversaries “instead of putting the fear of God in our enemies.”
She said later in her address that if “I were in charge” — a line that drew applause from the crowd — “they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/26/palin-waterboarding-how-wed-baptize-terrorists-her/#ixzz30CARoMfV
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
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The only shocking thing about her statement is that we have become so indoctrinated with political correctness that her statement seems shocking. Sarah Palin has a knack for saying things that provoke exactly that response.
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Guess that means she's never running for political office ever again.
That statement would doom her.
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She makes catchy provocative soundbites for attention. Attention in turn sells books and speaking appearances.
She has adopted the Pat Buchanan career plan.
And when I repeatedly say "narrow, deep and loud" I have in mind Buchanan's 2000 run, where he got less than 1/2 of one percent.
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Nobody knows what the future holds....(duh) LOL!
Her statement wouldn't seem radical if it were said, say....October, 2001.
God forbid anything major happens in terms of an attack on our mainland....because Sarah will be able to say that she was into country before it was cool.
...and Lord knows we're due.
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Her statement doesn't shock me, in fact I like it!
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Her statement doesn't shock me, in fact I like it!
LOL!....these so-called "extremists"....their persona can change on a dime.
One big BOOM is all it takes.
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The only shocking thing about her statement is that we have become so indoctrinated with political correctness that her statement seems shocking. Sarah Palin has a knack for saying things that provoke exactly that response.
:amen:
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The only shocking thing about her statement is that we have become so indoctrinated with political correctness that her statement seems shocking. Sarah Palin has a knack for saying things that provoke exactly that response.
For me, if she's not even going to try and get in the game, she shouldn't be talking about what she would do if she were President. It's easy to say things like this to sell books and such, but it sets an impossible bar for those who actually will try and win the GOP primary.
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Guess that means she's never running for political office ever again.
That statement would doom her.
If that statement alone would doom her, (and you may be right), then the nation is already doomed.
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If that statement alone would doom her, (and you may be right), then the nation is already doomed.
We are already doomed and it is going to take more than St. Sarah to save America.
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Even if you fundamentally support waterboarding (I do), no serious candidate would express it in such a fashion.
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Her statement doesn't shock me, in fact I like it!
So do I!
Water boarding is nothing compared to what every Special Operator in any branch of the U.S. military endures in the course of his or her training and using it to get information we need to deal with terrorists from other terrorists should be routine IMHO!
If a group of thugs attacked your family and tried to get away with your children but only managed to get one of them while you and your friends managed to get one of the thugs would you water board that thug to find out where your child had been taken?
I sure as hell would and a lot more if necessary!
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Americans. Always so gentle. **nononono*
Glass of water with 500 mg Ergotatine in it. Dark room. 30 minutes. You get answers, fast.
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Her statement doesn't shock me, in fact I like it!
Amen to that.
Al
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Even if you fundamentally support waterboarding (I do), no serious candidate would express it in such a fashion.
Sarah Palin™ wasn't being a serious candidate. She was earning her speaking fees.
(http://i.imgur.com/NIM4IXO.gif)
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Sarah Palin™ wasn't being a serious candidate. She was earning her speaking fees.
(http://i.imgur.com/NIM4IXO.gif)
Correct
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I respect that. In fact, I admire that.
Being 'destroyed' by the MSM and the Left, she's found and filling a niche.
Being an advocate for any white American over 40. And if you can do something you love....it's not work. And she's getting paid for it. And her celebrity grows.
If Jay Z and Beyonce are allowed to do that, why not Sarah?
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I respect that. In fact, I admire that.
Being 'destroyed' by the MSM and the Left, she's found and filling a niche.
Being an advocate for any white American over 40. And if you can do something you love....it's not work. And she's getting paid for it. And her celebrity grows.
If Jay Z and Beyonce are allowed to do that, why not Sarah?
Agreed.
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Americans. Always so gentle. **nononono*
Glass of water with 500 mg Ergotatine in it. Dark room. 30 minutes. You get answers, fast.
If it works I'm for it!
And to hell with delicate sensibilities!
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I agree DCP.
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I agree DCP.
:beer:
Great to see you back on the board, Lando!
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If it works I'm for it!
And to hell with delicate sensibilities!
Oh - it works, though I wanted some of the gear the Firm has to play with, several times! You do feel dirty as hell afterwards though, something that no shower washes off.
Still - we're not playing hopscotch here.
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Apparently nobody here' s bothered by the fact that Palin bastardizes the term "baptize," which has no meaning in the dictionary that doesn't refer to Christian baptism and the pouring of water to initiate a person into Christianity.
So to say that she'd "baptize" terrorists by waterboarding them is appropriating a life-giving term and twisting it to fit a process that is an outlawed practice by anyone in any official capacity in the United States government.
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I respect that. In fact, I admire that.
Being 'destroyed' by the MSM and the Left, she's found and filling a niche.
Being an advocate for any white American over 40. And if you can do something you love....it's not work. And she's getting paid for it. And her celebrity grows.
If Jay Z and Beyonce are allowed to do that, why not Sarah?
I completely agree. The difference is that Jay-Z doesn't set up Super PACs and flirt from time to time about possibly being President.
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Apparently nobody here' s bothered by the fact that Palin bastardizes the term "baptize," which has no meaning in the dictionary that doesn't refer to Christian baptism and the pouring of water to initiate a person into Christianity.
I'm bothered by it. I was wondering how long it would on this board, or on another board I frequent, to point it out after I posted it. If Palin was quoted correctly ... wow. She's about this close to becoming a televangelist. Which kind of makes sense...
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Yes, I paused over the word. I don't like it.
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How Reaganesque.
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She's not backing down. Maybe it's time for her to just let people know she'll never run for President, given what she is quoted with saying. :chairbang:
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin isn’t backing off the remark she made at the National Rifle Association’s annual meeting this weekend that if she were in charge, people “would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”
“Would I make it again? Why wouldn’t I? Yeah, absolutely,” she told NBC News. “Terrorists who want to annihilate Americans, innocent Americans, our children — whatever it takes to stop them. If I were in charge, I’d be stoppin’ em.”
After speaking at the NRA’s “Stand and Fight Rally” Saturday night at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis before a crowd of thousands, Mrs. Palin hit the stump for Iowa Senate candidate Jodi Ernst Sunday at the Hy-Vee Conference Center in west Des Moines in front of a much smaller crowd of about 300 people, according to NBC — “one of the smaller crowds that’s ever greeted Palin in Iowa.”
“Watch out Washington — Joni Ernst, she’s a mama grizzly ready to take a stand against the Russian bear,” Mrs. Palin said. “She knows what she’s talking about when she talks about freedom, what it takes to protect it.”
Mrs. Ernst is running for the GOP nomination in the race to succeed retiring Sen. Tom Harkin, a Democrat.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/28/sarah-palin-stands-firm-waterboarding-how-we-bapti/#ixzz30F7hQxnl
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
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Really?
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Between the foolish "Mama Grizzly" caricature and the lame Dr. Seuss silliness, Palin's right on the edge of becoming a cartoon character.
"If I were in charge, I'd be stoppin' 'em."
With what? Stilettos?
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Really?
I'm embarrassed for her, but even more, those who give her PAC money. The only reality show she could get on air is on a network called Sportsman Channel, which I never heard of before this show was announce. I imagine Palin took an advance of over $1m, easily, in order to give this new channel an initial audience to whomever still will follow this celebrity.
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The Sacrilegious Sarah Palin
Rod Dreher
The American Conservative
April 27, 2014
Man, the 12 minute speech Sarah Palin gave to the NRA convention is awful. It’s just witless, red-meat blathering, delivered in that nasal whine of hers that makes it sound like she’s chewing wads of tinfoil. For people who like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing they like.
Fast-forward in the video to the 6:30 mark, though, and listen to what she says about terrorists. It’s part of a long harangue about lily-livered liberals, delivered in such a way that makes Archie Bunker sound like Cicero. Money quote:
“Oh, but you can’t offend them, can’t make them feel uncomfortable, not even a smidgen. Well, if I were in charge, they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”
More, with reader comments (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-sacrilegious-sarah-palin/)
Sarah Palin’s Barbarism
Patrick Brennan
National Review
April 28, 2014
It’s been no secret for a while that Sarah Palin, erstwhile vice-president candidate, is no longer a serious political contender — for evidence of that transition, note that even among her faithful, at CPAC this year, she got just 2 percent of the vote in the straw poll, tied with Condoleezza Rice. But as her crowd-pleasing performance in the very final speech of that event — and her lucrative contract with Fox News and huge social-media following — indicate, she’s gone from being a potential political leader to something of a cultural totem.
That means her speeches have gone from being standard political pabulum to something even more substanceless ...
More, with reader comments (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/376713/sarah-palins-barbarism-patrick-brennan)
But don't worry. Mark Levin comes to the rescue with some of his typical name-calling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaEERgHiUXU
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Palin didn't say we'd baptize terrorists in the name of the Holy Spirit, but baptize in general, that has nothing to do with Christianity, but with other kinds of rites.
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I want to be respectful to those who like Palin but when she speaks, I find her impossible to take beyond her first sentence. Sometimes, I have to wait awhile.
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Palin didn't say we'd baptize terrorists in the name of the Holy Spirit, but baptize in general, that has nothing to do with Christianity, but with other kinds of rites.
She's speaking to a conservative audience, using the term "baptize" to that audience, and I'm supposed to think it wasn't on purpose?
If it wasn't, then Palin is an idiot. She's not an idiot, so my thought is she used that loaded word in front of a willing audience in order to shore up the 10% of the population who pay her bills.
The only real issue I have with Sarah is that she continually leaves teasers about leading the country, or running for President, when it's been obvious since 2008 to those of us on the right not caught up in the Palin Bubble that she has no intention of running for national office anytime soon.
I got perma-banned from TOS because I said over and over she wasn't running, and even when she said she wasn't running, posters still wanted to start some asinine movement to have a brokered convention. She's been dead politically to me since her "crony capitalism" smear on Rick Perry, anyhow. That was just so dumb.
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Sarah Palin Told To Apologize For “Waterboarding” Comment…She Responds
Obviously, liberals freaked out over this remark, because they’re interested in making sure that terrorists picked up from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan have the same constitutional rights that you and I do. They were horrified at the idea that Palin would take steps to save lives and protect this country from another 9/11.
Palin posted a response to these criticisms on her Facebook page, and she said that she wouldn’t stand down from using any means necessary to defend the United States from terrorist attacks.
She said:
Actions to stop terrorists who’d utterly annihilate America and delight in massacring our innocent children? Darn right I’d do whatever it takes to foil their murderous jihadist plots – including waterboarding. Whatever one thinks of my one-liner at the NRA rally about treating evil terrorists the way they deserve to be treated to prevent the death of innocent people, it’s utterly absurd for MSNBC to suggest that I could put our beloved troops in harm’s way, but we’ve come to expect the absurd from that failing network.
http://universalfreepress.com/sarah-palin-told-to-apologize-for-waterboarding-comment-she-responds/ (http://universalfreepress.com/sarah-palin-told-to-apologize-for-waterboarding-comment-she-responds/)
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Sarah Palin Told To Apologize For “Waterboarding” Comment…She Responds
Obviously, liberals freaked out over this remark, because they’re interested in making sure that terrorists picked up from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan have the same constitutional rights that you and I do. They were horrified at the idea that Palin would take steps to save lives and protect this country from another 9/11.
Palin posted a response to these criticisms on her Facebook page, and she said that she wouldn’t stand down from using any means necessary to defend the United States from terrorist attacks.
She said:
Actions to stop terrorists who’d utterly annihilate America and delight in massacring our innocent children? Darn right I’d do whatever it takes to foil their murderous jihadist plots – including waterboarding. Whatever one thinks of my one-liner at the NRA rally about treating evil terrorists the way they deserve to be treated to prevent the death of innocent people, it’s utterly absurd for MSNBC to suggest that I could put our beloved troops in harm’s way, but we’ve come to expect the absurd from that failing network.
http://universalfreepress.com/sarah-palin-told-to-apologize-for-waterboarding-comment-she-responds/ (http://universalfreepress.com/sarah-palin-told-to-apologize-for-waterboarding-comment-she-responds/)
Someone who refuses to back down is a threat to them and the entire Washington establishment! I LOVE her for that and the namby pamby whiners can all go straight to hell as for as I'm concerned!
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Someone who refuses to back down is a threat to them and the entire Washington establishment! I LOVE her for that and the namby pamby whiners can all go straight to hell as for as I'm concerned!
Rush said something similar, bigun: Limbaugh Defends Palin’s Waterboarding Remarks: ‘She’s At Least Taking It To The Enemy’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t92ZtdJabRY
http://dailyrushbo.com/limbaugh-defends-palins-waterboarding-remarks-shes-at-least-taking-it-to-the-enemy/ (http://dailyrushbo.com/limbaugh-defends-palins-waterboarding-remarks-shes-at-least-taking-it-to-the-enemy/)
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Oh Sarah...
Go shoot some bears or some elk or something.
But please be quiet.
Your first comment about Sarah was over the line, Luis. Please tone it down.
Mod2
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11513
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Palin didn't say we'd baptize terrorists in the name of the Holy Spirit, but baptize in general, that has nothing to do with Christianity, but with other kinds of rites.
There are no other kinds of "rites." "Baptize" is a term particular to Christianity. Look it up in the dictionary.
Palin doesn't know what it means either, I'm assuming.
If she does, even more reason for her to be ashamed of herself.
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There are no other kinds of "rites." "Baptize" is a term particular to Christianity. Look it up in the dictionary.
Palin doesn't know what it means either, I'm assuming.
If she does, even more reason for her to be ashamed of herself.
Baptism: •a person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult.
any similar ceremony or action of initiation, dedication, etc.
3.
a trying or purifying experience or initiation.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/baptism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/baptism)
•a person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult.
"this event constituted his baptism as a politician"
synonyms: initiation, debut, introduction, inauguration, launch, rite of passage More
"his baptism
https://www.google.com/webhp#q=meaning+baptism&revid=628657910 (https://www.google.com/webhp#q=meaning+baptism&revid=628657910)
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Ironic that we're playing a semantics game with Sarah Palin's words.
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Ironic that we're playing a semantics game with Sarah Palin's words.
Sarah enjoys poking the bear. The fact that the media rises to the bait every time simply encourages her.
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Ironic that we're playing a semantics game with Sarah Palin's words.
I'm not!
What she said was honest, straight forward, and in tune with the REAL world we live in! I applaud her courage in saying it and stand ready to help her apply it!
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(http://auktiononline.com/PALIN.jpg)
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Baptism: •a person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult.
any similar ceremony or action of initiation, dedication, etc.
3.
a trying or purifying experience or initiation.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/baptism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/baptism)
•a person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult.
"this event constituted his baptism as a politician"
synonyms: initiation, debut, introduction, inauguration, launch, rite of passage More
"his baptism
https://www.google.com/webhp#q=meaning+baptism&revid=628657910 (https://www.google.com/webhp#q=meaning+baptism&revid=628657910)
At any time other than this, the fact that your definition totally leaves out baptism as a Christian rite would have been seen by nearly everyone in this forum as one of those "war on religion/Christianity" things.
But since this is a way to defend something that Saint Sarah said, that's perfectly OK.
I guess John the Baptist was initiating people into some kind of a fraternity.
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Oh Sarah...
Go shoot some bears or some elk or something.
But please be quiet.
Your first comment about Sarah was over the line, Luis. Please tone it down.
Mod2
I find Sarah's comment offensive.
She's equating one of the most important tenets of my religion to what constitutes torture.
Sarah's comment is over the line, so you need top remove it as well.
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At any time other than this, the fact that your definition totally leaves out baptism as a Christian rite would have been seen by nearly everyone in this forum as one of those "war on religion/Christianity" things.
But since this is a way to defend something that Saint Sarah said, that's perfectly OK.
I guess John the Baptist was initiating people into some kind of a fraternity.
I think everyone here knows what Christian Baptism is, so didn't post it. Or do you really think we are that stupid? Sarah isn't a saint, but compared to RINOS, I'd say she has a lot more going for her.
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I think everyone here knows what Christian Baptism is, so didn't post it. Or do you really think we are that stupid? Sarah isn't a saint, but compared to RINOS, I'd say she has a lot more going for her.
Not stupid.
Disingenuous.
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Not stupid.
Disingenuous.
That works both ways. Projecting?
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(http://auktiononline.com/PALIN.jpg)
Apparently, Sarah mods here.
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That works both ways. Projecting?
How so?
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I find Sarah's comment offensive.
She's equating one of the most important tenets of my religion to what constitutes torture.
Sarah's comment is over the line, so you need top remove it as well.
If you think water boarding is torture I know of a few other games you would LOVE to play!
EVERY person who has ever served in any special operations arm of any branch of our military has undergone training that would make a day of water boarding look like a Sunday School picnic!
Why should people who want nothing more than to kill each and every one of us be immune to that?
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Apparently, Sarah mods here.
I am not a moderator, just so you know.
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That works both ways. Projecting?
Tell you what... I'll make my case, the you make yours.
I Googled the following "define baptism", and here are the results:
https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+baptism&rlz=1C1GPCK_enUS584US584&oq=definition+baptism&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.9332j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
EVERY SINGLE return from that search in that page defines "baptism" as a religious rite. EVERY SINGLE suggested related searches points you to something associated with religion.
YOU post a definition of the word that lacks a single association to Christianity.
What's the link to that lefty dictionary?
I didn't find it.
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If you think water boarding is torture I know of a few other games you would LOVE to play!
EVERY person who has ever served in any special operations arm of any branch of our military has undergone training that would make a day of water boarding look like a Sunday School picnic!
Why should people who want nothing more than to kill each and every one of us be immune to that?
OK... we'll play.
I'll water, you board.
I won't understand how you can possibly think that what's happening to you is torture.
Are you in?
I don't necessarily disapprove of using the method to obtain information, but I don't kid myself into thinking that it isn't torture.
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Tell you what... I'll make my case, the you make yours.
I Googled the following "define baptism", and here are the results:
https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+baptism&rlz=1C1GPCK_enUS584US584&oq=definition+baptism&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.9332j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
EVERY SINGLE return from that search in that page defines "baptism" as a religious rite. EVERY SINGLE suggested related searches points you to something associated with religion.
YOU post a definition of the word that lacks a single association to Christianity.
What's the link to that lefty dictionary?
I didn't find it.
This is the FIRST definition of Baptism on Google, by Google: bap·tism
/ˈbapˌtizəm/
noun
noun: baptism
(in the Christian Church) the religious rite of sprinkling water onto a person's forehead or of immersion in water, symbolizing purification or regeneration and admission to the Christian Church. In many denominations, baptism is performed on young children and is accompanied by name-giving.
synonyms: christening, naming More
"the baptism ceremony"
•a ceremony or occasion at which baptism takes place.
plural noun: baptisms
•a person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult.
"this event constituted his baptism as a politician"
synonyms: initiation, debut, introduction, inauguration, launch, rite of passage
"his baptism as a politician"
Now, I'm done with the spamming of a thread with the same thing over and over.
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OK... we'll play.
I'll water, you board.
I won't understand how you can possibly think that what's happening to you is torture.
Are you in?
I don't necessarily disapprove of using the method to obtain information, but I don't kid myself into thinking that it isn't torture.
So a device that results in absolutely no physical harm is, in your mind, Torture! Interesting!
Damned right I'll play!
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I think everyone here knows what Christian Baptism is, so didn't post it. Or do you really think we are that stupid? Sarah isn't a saint, but compared to RINOS, I'd say she has a lot more going for her.
So why then in response to sinkspur's challenge that you look the word up in the dictionary, did you post a definition that totally excluded the word's roots in the rites of Christianity instead f just agreeing with him?
I could say "no shit?" instead of "is that true?", but that doesn't make the word "shit" less offensive or appropriate.
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Can we agree that the acts of waterboarding and baptism are mutually exclusive and let it go? Sheese.
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So a device that results in absolutely no physical harm is, in your mind, Torture! Interesting!
Damned right I'll play!
You'll volunteer yourself to be subjected to waterboarding to defend Palin's use of a word.
Since we're all using our dictionaries today, look up fanaticism.
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This is cute. The Palinites are twisting themselves into knots trying to convince us that Palin--mensa member that she is--had some obscure meaning attached to the word "baptize" when, in fact, she knew exactly what she was saying.
It's not waterboarding that's the issue here, folks. It's the misappropriation of the word "baptize" to a procedure that is viewed by Christian morality as immoral.
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Can we agree that the acts of waterboarding and baptism are mutually exclusive and let it go? Sheese.
No shit....this is ridiculous!
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You'll volunteer yourself to be subjected to waterboarding to defend Palin's use of a word.
Since we're all using our dictionaries today, look up fanaticism.
I've been subjected to a hell of a lot worse than water boarding my friend! Have you?
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-Ariz.) in his 1964 presidential nomination acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention
I happen to agree with him!
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Myst... I sometimes take 3.
(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608029771372432762&pid=1.7)
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Bryan Fischer: Sarah Palin’s joke about waterboarding people was “clever and funny”
Elias Isquith
Salon
April 30, 2014
Speaking on his radio show on Tuesday, the American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer came to the defense of Sarah Palin, arguing that her recent controversial joke about waterboarding-as-terrorist-baptism was not barbaric and offensive but rather “clever and funny” and good.
“I just love her spunk and lover her spirit,” Fischer said in Palin’s defense. Besides, Fischer said, “waterboarding is not torture.”
More, with reader comments (http://www.salon.com/2014/04/30/bryan_fischer_sarah_palins_joke_about_waterboarding_people_was_clever_and_funny/)
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I've been subjected to a hell of a lot worse than water boarding my friend! Have you?
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-Ariz.) in his 1964 presidential nomination acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention
I happen to agree with him!
You do this a lot.
It's a logical fallacy known as argumentum ab auctoritate, argument from authority. The idea that anything said by anyone who is generally held in high regard, must be correct.
One of the most notable examples of the fallacy is the case of American zoologist Theophilus Painter.
In 1923 Painter declared that according to his findings, humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From that point through the 1950's, Painter's count continued to be held as scientific fact, in spite of numerous counts during that period of time showing that the correct number was 23. Even textbooks with pictures clearly showing 23 pairs of chromosomes declared the number to be 24 based on nothing more that Painter's gravitas and acknowledged position of authority.
In your case, you are trying to make the argument that since Goldwater used the word "extremism" in a positive light in his 1964 acceptance speech, and Goldwater is a conservative icon, he would approve of waterboarding.
That's a far reach.
In his speech, Goldwater was alluding to the 1964 racial riots.
I really doubt that Goldwater would agree that when he said "extremism" he meant waterboarding.
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Besides, Fischer said, “waterboarding is not torture.”
Most people who have never been waterboarded would agree.
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Luis.....thanks for staying on point despite the flak. :patriot:
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You do this a lot.
It's a logical fallacy known as argumentum ab auctoritate, argument from authority. The idea that anything said by anyone who is generally held in high regard, must be correct.
One of the most notable examples of the fallacy is the case of American zoologist Theophilus Painter.
In 1923 Painter declared that according to his findings, humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From that point through the 1950's, Painter's count continued to be held as scientific fact, in spite of numerous counts during that period of time showing that the correct number was 23. Even textbooks with pictures clearly showing 23 pairs of chromosomes declared the number to be 24 based on nothing more that Painter's gravitas and acknowledged position of authority.
In your case, you are trying to make the argument that since Goldwater used the word "extremism" in a positive light in his 1964 acceptance speech, and Goldwater is a conservative icon, he would approve of waterboarding.
That's a far reach.
In his speech, Goldwater was alluding to the 1964 racial riots.
I really doubt that Goldwater would agree that when he said "extremism" he meant waterboarding.
So you don't think Barry Goldwater would have been on board with the use of water boarding in order to obtain information needed to protect citizens of the U.S. from our sworn enemies?
If so I respectfully but STRONGLY disagree!
And I would appreciate it if you would stop building strawmen in order to support your arguments.
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You do this a lot.
It's a logical fallacy known as argumentum ab auctoritate, argument from authority. The idea that anything said by anyone who is generally held in high regard, must be correct.
One of the most notable examples of the fallacy is the case of American zoologist Theophilus Painter.
In 1923 Painter declared that according to his findings, humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From that point through the 1950's, Painter's count continued to be held as scientific fact, in spite of numerous counts during that period of time showing that the correct number was 23. Even textbooks with pictures clearly showing 23 pairs of chromosomes declared the number to be 24 based on nothing more that Painter's gravitas and acknowledged position of authority.
In your case, you are trying to make the argument that since Goldwater used the word "extremism" in a positive light in his 1964 acceptance speech, and Goldwater is a conservative icon, he would approve of waterboarding.
That's a far reach.
In his speech, Goldwater was alluding to the 1964 racial riots.
I really doubt that Goldwater would agree that when he said "extremism" he meant waterboarding.
Very well done.
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So you don't think Barry Goldwater would have been on board with the use of water boarding in order to obtain information needed to protect citizens of the U.S. from our sworn enemies?
If so I respectfully but STRONGLY disagree!
And I would appreciate it if you would stop building strawmen in order to support your arguments.
Not only do I not think that, but equally as significant is the fact that you don't know that he would.
Point me to the strawman in my argument.
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P.S. Bigun, according to your own argument, waterboarding is extremism, so all we're debating now is the degree of extremism.
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Not only do I not think that, but equally as significant is the fact that you don't know that he would.
Point me to the strawman in my argument.
"In your case, you are trying to make the argument that since Goldwater used the word "extremism" in a positive light in his 1964 acceptance speech, and Goldwater is a conservative icon, he would approve of waterboarding."
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"In your case, you are trying to make the argument that since Goldwater used the word "extremism" in a positive light in his 1964 acceptance speech, and Goldwater is a conservative icon, he would approve of waterboarding."
So you're saying that by posting that Goldwater quote you weren't making the argument that Goldwater would accept the use of waterboarding?
So why post the quote then?
Did you just have an overwhelming need to quote Goldwater at that point in the conversation?
Is it some weird Goldwater Tourettes Syndrome thing?
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So you're saying that by posting that Goldwater quote you weren't making the argument that Goldwater would accept the use of waterboarding?
So why post the quote then?
Did you just have an overwhelming need to quote Goldwater at that point in the conversation?
Is it some weird Goldwater Tourettes Syndrome thing?
Absolutely NOT! I am saying that he would have supported the use of water boarding without reservation and that YOU damned well know it!
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Absolutely NOT! I am saying that he would have supported the use of water boarding without reservation and that YOU damned well know it!
So how was my post a strawman?
BTW... not only do I NOT know that, neither do you.
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(http://i.investopedia.com/inv/articles/slideshow/stock_blunders/frustrated_man2.jpg)
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(http://i59.tinypic.com/1zb53k.jpg)
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All I have to say about this entire thread is: Oh Good Grief.
It was a friggin joke, and not even a new joke. This internet meme has been around at least 7-8 years.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/8e/8e28af3fa482a39d435974d282c4d5fa471e862635c085ca47a3e4456869852a.jpg)
It was also a running joke on the cartoon show American Dad.
If people are offended or try to get others to be offended by this joke, you should read this article:
http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Taking-Jokes-Seriously
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All I have to say about this entire thread is: Oh Good Grief.
It was a friggin joke, and not even a new joke. This internet meme has been around at least 7-8 years.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/8e/8e28af3fa482a39d435974d282c4d5fa471e862635c085ca47a3e4456869852a.jpg)
It was also a running joke on the cartoon show American Dad.
If people are offended or try to get others to be offended by this joke, you should read this article:
http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Taking-Jokes-Seriously
I'll stop taking jokes seriously when the joke stops being used to paint everyone with the same brush.
I consider myself a conservative, ergo I agree with everything Palin says.
Wrong... I do not.
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So how was my post a strawman?
BTW... not only do I NOT know that, neither do you.
P.S.
Here is what I DO know...
By way of the Goldwater quote you posted, you and I appear to agree on one thing:
Waterboarding=extremism.
All that's left for us to do is decide the degree of extremism.
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P.S.
Here is what I DO know...
By way of the Goldwater quote you posted, you and I appear to agree on one thing:
Waterboarding=extremism.
All that's left for us to do is decide the degree of extremism.
I never said that water boarding is extreme! Never once!
But even if it is I would still be for it in order to protect our citizens!
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality" -- Ayn Rand
As far as I know Ayn never had any authority over much of anything but I still agree with what she said!
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So a device that results in absolutely no physical harm is, in your mind, Torture! Interesting!
Damned right I'll play!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/waterboarding-interrogation-or-torture/
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1470200/waterboarding
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/dec/18/john-mccain/history-supports-mccains-stance-on-waterboarding/
Waterboarding IS torture. And I might add, we're a country of hypocrites when it comes to this topic. We called it illegal torture when it happened to our POW's, but when we want to do it others it's called "enhanced interrogation".
If our soldiers are held captive in Afghanistan, guess they can be waterboarded too :shrug:
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I never said that water boarding is extreme! Never once!
But even if it is I would still be for it in order to protect our citizens!
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality" -- Ayn Rand
As far as I know Ayn never had any authority over much of anything but I still agree with what she said!
So, what was the purpose of your Goldwater quote, as it applied to this specific discussion?
Trying to point out the irony in that Ayn Rand quote in relation to our current disagreement would be fruitless.
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So, what was the purpose of your Goldwater quote, as it applied to this specific discussion?
Trying to point out the irony in that Ayn Rand quote in relation to our current disagreement would be fruitless.
The point was to demonstrate my agreement with what he said. Nothing more or less than that!
Everything in which someone takes a firm stand FOR something is apparently ironic in your eyes Luis!
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The point was to demonstrate my agreement with what he said. Nothing more or less than that!
Everything in which someone takes a firm stand FOR something is apparently ironic in your eyes Luis!
So, in a discussion about whether or not waterboarding is torture and other related topics, you introduce a Goldwater quote about extremism being OK so long as it is used in the defense of liberty.
You also want to argue that the quote has nothing to do with either waterboarding as extremism, while at the same time, arguing that I would "damned well know" that Goldwater would not hesitate to use waterboarding.
So why the Goldwater qoute then?
Here... let me try this. See if I get it right.
Suppose for a minute that there's a debate about the moral decay which leads to acceptance of transgenderism in our society, and as I argue that some people being "different" doesn't make them immoral or amoral, I introduce this quote:
"I don't mind living in a man's world as long as I can be a woman in it." - Marilyn Monroe
Then after doing that, I try to make the case that the quote has no relevance to the subject at hand other than the fact that I agree with Marilyn, and that I am not a homo.
That wouldn't play well, don't you think?
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So, in a discussion about whether or not waterboarding is torture and other related topics, you introduce a Goldwater quote about extremism being OK so long as it is used in the defense of liberty.
You also want to argue that the quote has nothing to do with either waterboarding as extremism, while at the same time, arguing that I would "damned well know" that Goldwater would not hesitate to use waterboarding.
So why the Goldwater qoute then?
Here... let me try this. See if I get it right.
Suppose for a minute that there's a debate about the moral decay which leads to acceptance of transgenderism in our society, and as I argue that some people being "different" doesn't make them immoral or amoral, I introduce this quote:
"I don't mind living in a man's world as long as I can be a woman in it." - Marilyn Monroe
Then after doing that, I try to make the case that the quote has no relevance to the subject at hand other than the fact that I agree with Marilyn, and that I am not a homo.
That wouldn't play well, don't you think?
Might not play well with YOU but I would not have a problem with it.
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Might not play well with YOU but I would not have a problem with it.
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2465324288/hC5D0C611/)
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(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2465324288/hC5D0C611/)
Glad you recognize it!
You and some others here have been doing exactly that for years now all over the internet!
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Mark Levin’s Full-Throated Tribal Yell
Rod Dreher
The American Conservative
April 30, 2014
Somebody will do a Ph.D thesis in political science one day on the psychology of this stuff. Follow the link to hear the full clip. It’s delightful. Summary here, from that link:
Mark Levin went after NRO writer Patrick Brennan for taking cheap shots at Sarah Palin over her NRA speech this weekend...
Levin went on, “you may not agree with her — you may not agree with how she speaks or what she says but SCREW YOU! You do nothing.” ...
Next Levin took aim at Rod Dreher at The American Conservative, calling him a “nasty creep” for basically writing that Palin’s ‘baptism’ remark was blasphemy and suggesting she was comparing torture to a “holy sacrament of the Christian faith.” ...
Imagine the kind of conservative bubble in which the thought of Sarah Palin as a “serious political contender” is considered incontestable. Imagine the kind of conservative bubble in which holding a female who once ran for vice president of the United States responsible for something she said in a public speech is considered an act of sexism and disloyalty...
Note to Conservatism, Inc.: Mark Levin isn’t the future.
Full article with reader comments (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/mark-levins-full-throated-tribal-yell/)
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Might not play well with YOU but I would not have a problem with it.
Silly me!! I thought that your Goldwater quote (of which I wholeheartedly agree!) was in reference to a more general point. And that point being that the "extremism" of Palin (and by extension her supporters) in defense of Liberty is no vice; in contrast to the statism supported by the so called "moderates" of the current GOP. I didn't think that you were focusing in on waterboarding at all.... But what do I know??
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Silly me!! I thought that your Goldwater quote (of which I wholeheartedly agree!) was in reference to a more general point. And that point being that the "extremism" of Palin (and by extension her supporters) in defense of Liberty is no vice; in contrast to the statism supported by the so called "moderates" of the current GOP. I didn't think that you were focusing in on waterboarding at all.... But what do I know??
You get it very well but there are some here that don't do anything but try to disrupt and distort!
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Silly me!! I thought that your Goldwater quote (of which I wholeheartedly agree!) was in reference to a more general point. And that point being that the "extremism" of Palin (and by extension her supporters) in defense of Liberty is no vice; in contrast to the statism supported by the so called "moderates" of the current GOP. I didn't think that you were focusing in on waterboarding at all.... But what do I know??
I'm no Moderate.
I'm just not enough of a hypocrite that I would candy coat something I was supporting that I would readily label "torture" if it was done to some of our soldiers.
So, if you want to ask me whether or not I approve of torture in order to save lives, I would own that instead of trying to make some bullshit statement about what I supported not really being torture.
Here's a hint...
Dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was necessary, but it was mass murder of a civilian population.
Had we lost the war, everyone connected with that would have been tried as war criminals and for carrying out acts against humanity.
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You get it very well but there are some here that don't do anything but try to disrupt and distort!
That post was a joke, and my attempt at lightening up the mood.
But since you're going to go where you went, I'll point out that the majority of your post make no sense.
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I'm no Moderate.
I'm just not enough of a hypocrite that I would candy coat something I was supporting that I would readily label "torture" if it was done to some of our soldiers.
So, if you want to ask me whether or not I approve of torture in order to save lives, I would own that instead of trying to make some bullshit statement about what I supported not really being torture.
Here's a hint...
Dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was necessary, but it was mass murder of a civilian population.
Had we lost the war, everyone connected with that would have been tried as war criminals and for carrying out acts against humanity.
I am glad that you are not a Moderate, because then I would have to absolutely hate you!! :silly:
I'm one of those that doesn't really like to venture down into the weeds about something like waterboarding, or any number of "issues" that really don't amount to a hill of beans when I think about the more macro level problems that we have plaguing us as a nation, and a civilization. (Crap like that just doesn't float my boat.)
But I do agree with your points on the bombings. What is that quote about history being written by the victors??
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I am glad that you are not a Moderate, because then I would have to absolutely hate you!! :silly:
(http://fridayfunfact.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/deli-ticket-dispenser.jpg)
:beer:
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(https://smarttan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2011-01-18-Take-a-Number-copy.jpg)
couldn't help myself.... :bolt:
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11513 11513 11513 11513
We get it, Palin haters. We really do.
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11513 11513 11513 11513
We get it, Palin haters. We really do.
How utterly liberal of you.
Disagreement=hatred
That's the last four and a half years of the Obama administration, and probably the next three and a half.
She said something stupid, and I criticized her for it.
I don't hate her, I don't know her.
I think she's hot, but management disapproves of me saying so.
(http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/sullivan/6a00d83451c45669e2011571a85d68970b-320wi)
Hubba hubba!
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(https://smarttan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2011-01-18-Take-a-Number-copy.jpg)
couldn't help myself.... :bolt:
You hate me...
I knew it.
8888crybaby
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That post was a joke, and my attempt at lightening up the mood.
But since you're going to go where you went, I'll point out that the majority of your post make no sense.
See if this helps!
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/150/a/f/Professional_Troll_by_DrRiptide.jpg)
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IMO, "torture" happens when a victim is subjected to bodily mutilation or bodily fractures or insertions.
Waterboarding isn't only not in the same league....it's not in the same sport.
Scaring the living shit out of somebody to extract information is not torture. It's brilliantly efficient.
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IMO, "torture" happens when a victim is subjected to bodily mutilation or bodily fractures or insertions.
Waterboarding isn't only not in the same league....it's not in the same sport.
Scaring the living shit out of somebody to extract information is not torture. It's brilliantly efficient.
Bears repeating! So I did!
:beer:
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IMO, "torture" happens when a victim is subjected to bodily mutilation or bodily fractures or insertions.
Waterboarding isn't only not in the same league....it's not in the same sport.
Scaring the living shit out of somebody to extract information is not torture. It's brilliantly efficient.
So you would be OK with captured American soldiers being waterboarded by Taliban interrogators in order to extract information from them?
Please don't come back with one of those "better that than" responses. Address this as a stand-alone issue.
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I liked the thread better when it was the Palin detractors versus the Palin supporters as we dissected her words.
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What is it about waterboarding that makes it effective? I'm talking about the human response when a hardened person loses his or her determination to withhold information and begins to cough it up (with a little water, I suppose). Why the change? Could it be because of the trauma experienced? Is that not at least part of the definition of torture? It is after all... purely a definition we are debating. Putting someone in a dark hole with only minimal food and water breaks no bones. But over time, it breaks people. Why?
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Now... am I for waterboarding? Yes, but there needs to be "Rules of Engagement" established. Do I know what those rules are exactly? No. But yes, I support it.
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As for Sarah Palin... she thought it was a good red meat line for her paid appearance. Gotta keep the schtick going, you know.
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I liked the thread better when it was the Palin detractors versus the Palin supporters as we dissected her words.
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What is it about waterboarding that makes it effective? I'm talking about the human response when a hardened person loses his or her determination to withhold information and begins to cough it up (with a little water, I suppose). Why the change? Could it be because of the trauma experienced? Is that not at least part of the definition of torture? It is after all... purely a definition we are debating. Putting someone in a dark hole with only minimal food and water breaks no bones. But over time, it breaks people. Why?
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Now... am I for waterboarding? Yes, but there needs to be "Rules of Engagement" established. Do I know what those rules are exactly? No. But yes, I support it.
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As for Sarah Palin... she thought it was a good red meat line for her paid appearance. Gotta keep the schtick going, you know.
It has always been a pleasure to share a bit of cyberspace with you.
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It has always been a pleasure to share a bit of cyberspace with you.
Likewise amigo. I just never want to get tangled up with you. Too mentally agile.
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So you would be OK with captured American soldiers being waterboarded by Taliban interrogators in order to extract information from them?
Please don't come back with one of those "better that than" responses. Address this as a stand-alone issue.
Luis, I luv ya!
They're already cutting their heads off....after sodomizing them.
And you're trying to close me by offering me a yes or no question? Nice try. :laugh:
But I'm like Lando...but also like Harry Callahan....I know my limitations! :beer:
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Luis, I luv ya!
They're already cutting their heads off....after sodomizing them.
And you're trying to close me by offering me a yes or no question? Nice try. :laugh:
But I'm like Lando...but also like Harry Callahan....I know my limitations! :beer:
Coward.
:beer:
I'm still chuckling over the contortions that Palin's people are willing to go through to cover for Saint Sarah
What is Baptism?
A religious rite that involves either an individual being submerged in water, or water being poured over someone's head.
What is waterboarding?
Basically water being poured over someone's head, but I'm supposed to believe that Saint Sarah was not referring to the religious ritual when she said what she said.
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So you would be OK with captured American soldiers being waterboarded by Taliban interrogators in order to extract information from them?
Please don't come back with one of those "better that than" responses. Address this as a stand-alone issue.
I'm not the least bit worried about captured Americans being water boarded! I'm much more worried about them having their heads hacked off with dull instruments!
I truly wish that international terrorists conformed to the same social moralities you hold but unfortunately they do not! Not by a damned site!
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To be fair to Gov. Palin, baptism does get misused by others as well. Never heard the phrase "Baptism of fire?"
Sure - she could have picked a better word.
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To be fair to Gov. Palin, baptism does get misused by others as well. Never heard the phrase "Baptism of fire?"
Sure - she could have picked a better word.
Specially when she was referring to an act where water is poured over someone's head
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I'm not the least bit worried about captured Americans being water boarded! I'm much more worried about them having their heads hacked off with dull instruments!
I truly wish that international terrorists conformed to the same social moralities you hold but unfortunately they do not! Not by a damned site!
Too true. Interrogation is a tool in the box, same as anything else. Terrorists tend to be a little more brutally direct in their approach. It's why my friend Raine has only two fingers and a thumb on one hand. They took the other two - one joint at a time over several days. Compared to that, waterboarding is an amusement park ride.
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Regardless of how cutsie she thought she was. Regardless of how much I love her (eventually we will be man and wife, I know it). Regardless of me following her on facebook etc.
Regardless of all that, what she said was a stupid thing to say on so many levels. And, it will result in the deaths of Christians worldwide and possibly the death of troops as well.
Those who know me know that I do not coddle Muslims. My personal belief is that anyone who is NOT anti-Islam must be either completely ignorant or insane. But this was just like poking a pit-bull. Or, in Sarah terms, she was teasing a bear. It demeaned Christianity and it gave the wackos more fodder for recruitment and to be used to goad other unstable religious zealots into attacks which they otherwise may not have done.
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Too true. Interrogation is a tool in the box, same as anything else. Terrorists tend to be a little more brutally direct in their approach. It's why my friend Raine has only two fingers and a thumb on one hand. They took the other two - one joint at a time over several days. Compared to that, waterboarding is an amusement park ride.
:amen:
Next time you see him tell Raine I said thank you!
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It was exactly my point.
I wish the worst thing that would happen to a captured American....let alone soldier or special ops...would be waterboarding for information.
And we're pissing our pants arguing if that's 'torturing' them. :whistle:
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It was exactly my point.
I wish the worst thing that would happen to a captured American....let alone soldier or special ops...would be waterboarding for information.
And we're pissing our pants arguing if that's 'torturing' them. :whistle:
Nope. This is a thread where we are defining words.
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:amen:
Next time you see him tell Raine I said thank you!
I shall. :laugh: We don't talk often, but we do the odd phone call. Mostly letters though - you know how treasured letters are!
The people who did that - they were dealt with.
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It was exactly my point.
I wish the worst thing that would happen to a captured American....let alone soldier or special ops...would be waterboarding for information.
And we're pissing our pants arguing if that's 'torturing' them. :whistle:
I understood you perfectly! You said it very well in fact!
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I shall. :laugh: We don't talk often, but we do the odd phone call. Mostly letters though - you know how treasured letters are!
The people who did that - they were dealt with.
I'll sleep much better tonight knowing that!
Thanks!
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Nope. This is a thread where we are defining words.
If this were a thread about Taliban waterboarding Christian missionaries and calling it a baptism most people on this thread (me included) would be raging about the godless bastards torturing our people and mocking Christianity.
The fact that I am consistent in calling waterboarding "torture" and that drawing a line of equivalency between the practice of waterboarding and the Christian rite of baptism is offensive to me makes me one off the people on the thread that's consistent in my moral values.
My moral North is well fixed in place
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Nope. This is a thread where we are defining words.
You're right, Lando! Sorry.
That said, IMO, Sarah's use of the word 'baptism' was intended as used. The religious analogy was a dig at their cult-like, out-of-control Islam.
It was perfect.
She's not stupid. Nobody else saying it could have garnered the media attention that she does. And they deserve to be called out.
The MSM is being played....the more people hear her say she'd be Wyatt Earp while our country is being bullied and humiliated throughout the world...well, her popularity is enhanced.
I'm hoping that more and more voting Democrats can admit that this isn't what they signed up for. Even if they're getting bennies....they still know that it was better when they worked 40 hours and could take their kids out for dinner once in awhile.
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I'm hoping that more and more voting Democrats can admit that this isn't what they signed up for. Even if they're getting bennies....they still know that it was better when they worked 40 hours and could take their kids out for dinner once in awhile.
There will be some. My many relatives who vote Democratic seem to be staying there. The big gap will be in turnout, I suspect.
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If this were a thread about Taliban waterboarding Christian missionaries and calling it a baptism most people on this thread (me included) would be raging about the godless bastards torturing our people and mocking Christianity.
The fact that I am consistent in calling waterboarding "torture" and that drawing a line of equivalency between the practice of waterboarding and the Christian rite of baptism is offensive to me makes me one off the people on the thread that's consistent in my moral values.
My moral North is well fixed in place
And THAT is the deeper meaning of the thread.
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You're right, Lando! Sorry.
That said, IMO, Sarah's use of the word 'baptism' was intended as used. The religious analogy was a dig at their cult-like, out-of-control Islam.
It was perfect.
She's not stupid. Nobody else saying it could have garnered the media attention that she does. And they deserve to be called out.
The MSM is being played....the more people hear her say she'd be Wyatt Earp while our country is being bullied and humiliated throughout the world...well, her popularity is enhanced.
I'm hoping that more and more voting Democrats can admit that this isn't what they signed up for. Even if they're getting bennies....they still know that it was better when they worked 40 hours and could take their kids out for dinner once in awhile.
The late Adrian Rogers once said "You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it".
Inspired by Dr. Roger's wisdom, I'd like to suggest that you cannot claim the moral high ground by taking the low road.
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Water boarding is nothing compared to what every Special Operator in any branch of the U.S. military endures in the course of his or her training and using it to get information we need to deal with terrorists from other terrorists should be routine IMHO!
Have you ever been water boarded? I am ex-military, and I have experienced it first hand. I'm going to have to say that I disagree with your statement. I don't disagree with doing what we need to to extract information, but water boarding is absolutely a form of torture. It is unbearable and unbelievably painful. It is like being in a perpetual state of drowning.
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Have you ever been water boarded? I am ex-military, and I have experienced it first hand. I'm going to have to say that I disagree with your statement. I don't disagree with doing what we need to to extract information, but water boarding is absolutely a form of torture. It is unbearable and unbelievably painful. It is like being in a perpetual state of drowning.
Thanks for weighing in, and thank you for your service.
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Thank you for your service, Dex.
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Have you ever been water boarded? I am ex-military, and I have experienced it first hand. I'm going to have to say that I disagree with your statement. I don't disagree with doing what we need to to extract information, but water boarding is absolutely a form of torture. It is unbearable and unbelievably painful. It is like being in a perpetual state of drowning.
Thank you.
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Have you ever been water boarded? I am ex-military, and I have experienced it first hand. I'm going to have to say that I disagree with your statement. I don't disagree with doing what we need to to extract information, but water boarding is absolutely a form of torture. It is unbearable and unbelievably painful. It is like being in a perpetual state of drowning.
I'm going to take a guess and say that your personal experience with waterboarding came as a result of the training you underwent in the military and very respectfully suggest to you that the reason YOU believe it's torture is because you don't have any idea what REAL torture is!
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This is from my phone so it will be brief... I respect all of you who have served. One of my great regrets is not serving myself.
But... Aren't we being silly over definitions? What is it about waterboarding that will make the most hardened soldier give up his brothers in arms? The fact that it does not permanently maim makes it somehow not traumatic? It really strikes me that some would deny that it is a very real form of torture.
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This is from my phone so it will be brief... I respect all of you who have served. One of my great regrets is not serving myself.
What is it about waterboarding that will make the most hardened soldier give up his brothers in arms?
FEAR and fear alone! It is NOT torture in the same sense that cutting off fingers and toes, one joint oat a time, over days is! Not even in the same game or even the same ball park for that matter!
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This is from my phone so it will be brief... I respect all of you who have served. One of my great regrets is not serving myself.
But... Aren't we being silly over definitions? What is it about waterboarding that will make the most hardened soldier give up his brothers in arms? The fact that it does not permanently maim makes it somehow not traumatic? It really strikes me that some would deny that it is a very real form of torture.
My friend, waterboarding is nothing. It's also easy to stop. All you need do is inhale. If they really want information, they'll pump you out again. After the third time they get frustrated and move on to other methods. If they don't - well, it's over, at least.
Fast interrogation works on three of the four basic fears. Fear of not being able to breathe, fear of the dark, and fear of pain. I don't think anyone at ground level has managed to work in fear of falling yet, though it is amazingly effective. Take someone up to 2000 feet, hang them out the door with a knife on the rope and they'll give up their own mother in less time than it took to type this sentence.
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I'm going to take a guess and say that your personal experience with waterboarding came as a result of the training you underwent in the military and very respectfully suggest to you that the reason YOU believe it's torture is because you don't have any idea what REAL torture is!
I'm not arguing that there are not worse and more painful forms of torture, but that doesn't somehow change the fact that water boarding is also a form of torture. Physical mutilation is not a requirement for something to be torture.
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I'm not arguing that there are not worse and more painful forms of torture, but that doesn't somehow change the fact that water boarding is also a form of torture. Physical mutilation is not a requirement for something to be torture.
Following your logic ANYTHING can be called torture DEX! ANYTHING! Having to watch cartoons with your kids on Saturday morning is a form of torture!
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Following your logic ANYTHING can be called torture DEX! ANYTHING! Having to watch cartoons with your kids on Saturday morning is a form of torture!
....except Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner, that is. :laugh:
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Following your logic ANYTHING can be called torture DEX! ANYTHING! Having to watch cartoons with your kids on Saturday morning is a form of torture!
How many times have you been waterboarded Bigun?
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How many times have you been waterboarded Bigun?
I don't remember exactly as it was a LONG time ago in the course of my military training but I WELL remember it! At the time it was being done to me I would have readily agreed that it was torture but since then, in the clear light of day, I have come to realize that it is not!
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I don't remember exactly as it was a LONG time ago in the course of my military training but I WELL remember it! At the time it was being done to me I would have readily agreed that it was torture but since then, in the clear light of day, I have come to realize that it is not!
So, the difference between now and then is that then, when it was being done to you it was torture, and now, when it's done to someone else it isn't.
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This is from my phone so it will be brief... I respect all of you who have served. One of my great regrets is not serving myself.
But... Aren't we being silly over definitions? What is it about waterboarding that will make the most hardened soldier give up his brothers in arms? The fact that it does not permanently maim makes it somehow not traumatic? It really strikes me that some would deny that it is a very real form of torture.
Look up.
It's hypocrisy.
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So, the difference between now and then is that then, when it was being done to you it was torture, and now, when it's done to someone else it isn't.
No NO and NO!
Did you see what I posted above?
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No NO and NO!
Did you see what I posted above?
Yes, I saw it as did everyone else.
At the time it was being done to me I would have readily agreed that it was torture but since then, in the clear light of day, I have come to realize that it is not!
When it was being done to you, it was torture, now, you're here arguing that when it's done to others, it isn't torture.
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Yes, I saw it as did everyone else.
At the time it was being done to me I would have readily agreed that it was torture but since then, in the clear light of day, I have come to realize that it is not!
When it was being done to you, it was torture, now, you're here arguing that when it's done to others, it isn't torture.
BS Luis! When it was done to me I THOUGHT it was torture but have come to realize it was not!
Stop trying to twist my words to suit YOUR agenda! I'm quite tired of it!
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BS Luis! When it was done to me I THOUGHT it was torture but have come to realize it was not!
Stop trying to twist my words to suit YOUR agenda! I'm quite tired of it!
What brought you to the realization that it is not torture? What changed from when you thought it was torture while it was being done to you?
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What brought you to the realization that it is not torture? What changed from when you thought it was torture while it was being done to you?
Time and hypocrisy.
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What brought you to the realization that it is not torture? What changed from when you thought it was torture while it was being done to you?
I grew up! Became a man!
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BS Luis! When it was done to me I THOUGHT it was torture but have come to realize it was not!
Stop trying to twist my words to suit YOUR agenda! I'm quite tired of it!
So, when you were being waterboarded, when it was happening to YOU, YOU THOUGHT YOU were being tortured.
Now, when someone else is being waterboarded, when it isn't YOU being waterboarded, YOU think that THEY are not being tortured.
Now, if this was a case of American missionaries being waterboarded by Taliban fighters who claimed that they were baptizing those missionaries, would you be making the argument that those missionaries weren't being tortured and that the Taliban fighters weren't mocking Christianity?
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I grew up! Became a man!
So what you're saying is that Dex4974 is not a man since he argues that he considers waterboarding to be torture because he was waterboarded?
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Thinking something is happening and that thing actually happening are NOT the same Luis and YOU damned well know it!
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So what you're saying is that Dex4974 is not a man since he argues that he considers waterboarding to be torture because he was waterboarded?
What is this a cross examination...he has answered your question, give it a rest already...sheeesh!
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What brought you to the realization that it is not torture? What changed from when you thought it was torture while it was being done to you?
I can't answer for my brother, nor would I. However - being boarded in training does not compare in the slightest to having to type with a functional right hand and the middle finger on my left. I am left handed. It gets annoying.
Nor does it compare to Raine - who actually lost two fingers. Snipped off one joint at a time, with the cuts dipped in boiling hot tar to seal them. Or one of my very loved colleagues - who was raped to death. She bled out on extract. I could go on.
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What is this a cross examination...he has answered your question, give it a rest already...sheeesh!
It's called badgering the witness and you would make a very good judge!
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What is this a cross examination...he has answered your question, give it a rest already...sheeesh!
It is a heated debate.
It is what goes on in forums like this.
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It's called badgering the witness and you would make a very good judge!
Tell you what. I'll quit mincing words and cut to the core.
It is massive hypocrisy to think that it was torture when it was done to you then argue that it isn't when it's done to others. It is reacting to the need to safeguard a moral high ground while running down the lowest available road, by changing the morality of what constitutes torture to the degree that you are willing to ignore what your own mind told you was happening to you while it was happening to you.
You do all that so that you can think that your morals haven't been debased.
They have.
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Tell you what. I'll quit mincing words and cut to the core.
It is massive hypocrisy to think that it was torture when it was done to you then argue that it isn't when it's done to others. It is reacting to the need to safeguard a moral high ground while running down the lowest available road, by changing the morality of what constitutes torture to the degree that you are willing to ignore what your own mind told you was happening to you while it was happening to you.
You do all that so that you can think that your morals haven't been debased.
They have.
Luis. You think we who HAVE to do it don't feel the same pain you do?
Leave us our illusions. Please. They are the only damn thing that lets us sleep.
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Tell you what. I'll quit mincing words and cut to the core.
It is massive hypocrisy to think that it was torture when it was done to you then argue that it isn't when it's done to others. It is reacting to the need to safeguard a moral high ground while running down the lowest available road, by changing the morality of what constitutes torture to the degree that you are willing to ignore what your own mind told you was happening to you while it was happening to you.
You do all that so that you can think that your morals haven't been debased.
They have.
You can call it anything you want Luis! But you calling it something doesn't make it so! Just like your idea of what the law says does not make it the law.
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Getting back on topic.....Sarah Palin's controversial populist comment is certainly going to have a positive impact on political party strategies IF there is any high level terrorist attack on American soil or overseas assets.
The People are getting fed up with these milquetoast pajama boys and their lesbian shields.
.....uh...maybe it's not the topic, but it's better than beating somebody bloody over the head. :shrug:
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.....uh...maybe it's not the topic, but it's better than beating somebody bloody over the head. :shrug:
I call it enhanced debating techniques.
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I call it enhanced debating techniques.
:laugh:
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I call it enhanced debating techniques.
I call it being an bleep.
I mean - really? There are at least 4 people here who have had to do the enhanced interrogation thing. No choice. Part of the bleep job. Go break 5 people then come back and dictate. Otherwise, shut the bleep up.
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I call it enhanced debating techniques.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV2lWUfROzY
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I call it being an bleep.
Then I am in the right place, aren't I?
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I call it being an bleep.
I mean - really? There are at least 4 people here who have had to do the enhanced interrogation thing. No choice. Part of the bleeping job. Go break 5 people then come back and dictate. Otherwise, shut the bleep up.
BTW... I do not question the fact that I can be an bleep because I know that I can be one, and being called one doesn't really bother me., but I'm no different than anyone else in this forum (or any forum) who digs in on positions and opinions that they hold strongly.
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BTW... I do not question the fact that I can be an bleep because I know that I can be one, and being called one doesn't really bother me., but I'm no different than anyone else in this forum (or any forum) who digs in on positions and opinions that they hold strongly.
Nope - and it is your right to do so.
Just - it hurts a wee bit to be reminded. OK?
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Nope - and it is your right to do so.
Just - it hurts a wee bit to be reminded. OK?
(http://www.mixerplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/beer_toast.jpg)
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Wow, I missed a lot. I do not care to revisit specifics of the back and forth of the thread but I'd like to offer my final two cents. It is offered with respect and humility and I hate it that some here have had horrors visited upon them by others. It is, as EC has said in various ways, the way it is - despite being horrific. I will also be presumptuous in suggesting that I think I know where Luis has been coming from so this may speak for him as well. If not, I'm sure Luis will tell me.
I have no illusions that there are not worse, far worse methods than waterboarding to inflict on another human being for the purposes of extracting information. And, I have come to understand that some here may have experienced or seen some of those horrors. I also intuitively, instinctively and intellectually know that there are yet worse experiences. One can shock themselves in imagining the reality of that. Some methods, as observed earlier, may not require physical maiming of the body. Systematic executions of others, or loved ones, is one such method.
So... are we talking about a matter of degree? What is the bottom rung of the spectrum? Do we say to the soldier who may have given up intelligence resulting in deaths of others through waterboarding that... it... wasn't ... real... torture? Would a grieving family be told such a thing? "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, your son gave his life, but before he did, he gave up crucial info that resulted in the deaths of his fellow soldiers. And it was only through waterboarding, which isn't real torture." I think not.
From the beginning of this narrative, I have said we are trying to define a word. What we are debating, are examples of it. I will tell you, I hold that the act of waterboarding is on the torture spectrum. Otherwise, it would not be effective. It causes sufficient trauma to change a person's most steadfast heart. It makes the toughest among us who would otherwise say they would never surrender sensitive information that would result in the deaths of your brothers in arms - relent. Again, are there more severe, more expedient methods? Of course. Absolutely.
So... definitions. For me, waterboarding is indeed on the torture spectrum. Undeniably so. Does it bother me that I believe that? No. As I said, I support the employment of the technique in some instances. But, I won't deny what it is.
I submit this with humility to those of you who served.
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Now, back to Sarah Palin.
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Wow, I missed a lot. I do not care to revisit specifics of the back and forth of the thread but I'd like to offer my final two cents. It is offered with respect and humility and I hate it that some here have had horrors visited upon them by others. It is, as EC has said in various ways, the way it is - despite being horrific. I will also be presumptuous in suggesting that I think I know where Luis has been coming from so this may speak for him as well. If not, I'm sure Luis will tell me.
I have no illusions that there are not worse, far worse methods than waterboarding to inflict on another human being for the purposes of extracting information. And, I have come to understand that some here may have experienced or seen some of those horrors. I also intuitively, instinctively and intellectually know that there are yet worse experiences. One can shock themselves in imagining the reality of that. Some methods, as observed earlier, may not require physical maiming of the body. Systematic executions of others, or loved ones, is one such method.
So... are we talking about a matter of degree? What is the bottom rung of the spectrum? Do we say to the soldier who may have given up intelligence resulting in deaths of others through waterboarding that... it... wasn't ... real... torture? Would a grieving family be told such a thing? "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, your son gave his life, but before he did, he gave up crucial info that resulted in the deaths of his fellow soldiers. And it was only through waterboarding, which isn't real torture." I think not.
From the beginning of this narrative, I have said we are trying to define a word. What we are debating, are examples of it. I will tell you, I hold that the act of waterboarding is on the torture spectrum. Otherwise, it would not be effective. It causes sufficient trauma to change a person's most steadfast heart. It makes the toughest among us who would otherwise say they would never surrender sensitive information that would result in the deaths of your brothers in arms - relent. Again, are there more severe, more expedient methods? Of course. Absolutely.
So... definitions. For me, waterboarding is indeed on the torture spectrum. Undeniably so. Does it bother me that I believe that? No. As I said, I support the employment of the technique in some instances. But, I won't deny what it is.
I submit this with humility to those of you who served.
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Now, back to Sarah Palin.
(http://www.bubblews.com/assets/images/news/114252077_1397665639.jpg)
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Wow, I missed a lot. I do not care to revisit specifics of the back and forth of the thread but I'd like to offer my final two cents. It is offered with respect and humility and I hate it that some here have had horrors visited upon them by others. It is, as EC has said in various ways, the way it is - despite being horrific. I will also be presumptuous in suggesting that I think I know where Luis has been coming from so this may speak for him as well. If not, I'm sure Luis will tell me.
I have no illusions that there are not worse, far worse methods than waterboarding to inflict on another human being for the purposes of extracting information. And, I have come to understand that some here may have experienced or seen some of those horrors. I also intuitively, instinctively and intellectually know that there are yet worse experiences. One can shock themselves in imagining the reality of that. Some methods, as observed earlier, may not require physical maiming of the body. Systematic executions of others, or loved ones, is one such method.
So... are we talking about a matter of degree? What is the bottom rung of the spectrum? Do we say to the soldier who may have given up intelligence resulting in deaths of others through waterboarding that... it... wasn't ... real... torture? Would a grieving family be told such a thing? "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, your son gave his life, but before he did, he gave up crucial info that resulted in the deaths of his fellow soldiers. And it was only through waterboarding, which isn't real torture." I think not.
From the beginning of this narrative, I have said we are trying to define a word. What we are debating, are examples of it. I will tell you, I hold that the act of waterboarding is on the torture spectrum. Otherwise, it would not be effective. It causes sufficient trauma to change a person's most steadfast heart. It makes the toughest among us who would otherwise say they would never surrender sensitive information that would result in the deaths of your brothers in arms - relent. Again, are there more severe, more expedient methods? Of course. Absolutely.
So... definitions. For me, waterboarding is indeed on the torture spectrum. Undeniably so. Does it bother me that I believe that? No. As I said, I support the employment of the technique in some instances. But, I won't deny what it is.
I submit this with humility to those of you who served.
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Now, back to Sarah Palin.
My friend. We have a two word explanation of everything.
"Whatever works."
Ain't pretty, leaves zero wiggle room in terms of morals - but it is effective.
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To my bleep buddies:
(http://www.fun-free-party-games.com/ffpg-allimages/BeerMugsToast.jpg)
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Excellent post, Lando!
Proud to be your friend! :beer:
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Excellent post, Lando!
Proud to be your friend! :beer:
Likewise friend. Thank you.
(http://www.carolinaheartstrings.com/wp-content/uploads/Beer_toast_generic_carousel_NSH_304.jpg)
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To my bleep buddies:
(http://www.fun-free-party-games.com/ffpg-allimages/BeerMugsToast.jpg)
Proud to be one of them.
If we're going to do this, let's do it right.
(http://trialx.com/g/Mojitos-4.jpeg)
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Something else to consider is how often and for how long some people have to endure water boarding. I experienced it for maybe 20-30 seconds.
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Something else to consider is how often and for how long some people have to endure water boarding. I experienced it for maybe 20-30 seconds.
So. it's kind of like having sex with your wife when you've been married 25 years.
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Proud to be one of them.
If we're going to do this, let's do it right.
(http://trialx.com/g/Mojitos-4.jpeg)
Wow... and there is a shortage of limes in some areas! I can see why!
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So. it's kind of like having sex with your wife when you've been married 25 years.
I don't really know how to respond to this. haha
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I don't really know how to respond to this. haha
I got the giggles.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNfYAXUzito
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I don't really know how to respond to this. haha
It doesn't feel all that good, but at least you know that it will be over quickly.
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I really do admire and respect Sarah Palin. However, she is far to kind in her manner of dealing with terrorists.
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I applaud Luis and others here. Conservatives need to be more self critical. When "one of our own" says something stupid, we should call him (or her) on it. We shouldn't just knee-jerkingly circle the wagons.
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I applaud Luis and others here. Conservatives need to be more self critical. When "one of our own" says something stupid, we should call him (or her) on it. We shouldn't just knee-jerkingly circle the wagons.
Who get's to decide when "one of our own" has said something stupid?
I think there is a strong case to be made that majority here believes that what Sarah said in this case is FAR from stupid!
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Here's her speech. Rambling cliches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk4dD2L0RTk
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Who get's to decide when "one of our own" has said something stupid?
I think there is a strong case to be made that majority here believes that what Sarah said in this case is FAR from stupid!
I get to decide for myself.
Majority decisions are lefty things. Conservatives believe in individualism.
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I get to decide for myself.
Majority decisions are lefty things. Conservatives believe in individualism.
You do. Might not agree - as in this case, I think she is way too timid and guilty of using a wrong word - but your right to you opinion is something many of us here have fought for and lost friends for. You too have lost friends for that right - your Boom Boom Boom post was incredibly sad and moving.
Love your writing. Been slowly working my way back through the archives.
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I get to decide for myself.
Majority decisions are lefty things. Conservatives believe in individualism.
And then so does everyone else!
Which means that all of us are entitled to opinions but our opinions are of equal weight. We don't have Kings here!
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Quite the discussion.
To our service guys - thank you.
Luis Gonzales - Tenacious.
Lando Lincoln - Well done.
Deep thought on a Sarah Palin thread - amazing.
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Quite the discussion.
To our service guys - thank you.
Luis Gonzales - Tenacious.
Lando Lincoln - Well done.
Deep thought on a Sarah Palin thread - amazing.
Thanks for weighing in.
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Thanks for weighing in.
My Saturday morning click-around.
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Quite the discussion.
To our service guys - thank you.
Luis Gonzales - Tenacious.
Lando Lincoln - Well done.
Deep thought on a Sarah Palin thread - amazing.
Might be the line of the thread!
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Might be the line of the thread!
Yes, I am not a fan of SP.
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SARAH PALIN: Hammers “WUSSES” Crying About Her “Waterboarding Terrorists” Comment (http://clashdaily.com/2014/05/sarah-palin-hammers-wusses-crying-waterboarding-terrorists-comment/)
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SARAH PALIN: Hammers “WUSSES” Crying About Her “Waterboarding Terrorists” Comment (http://clashdaily.com/2014/05/sarah-palin-hammers-wusses-crying-waterboarding-terrorists-comment/)
Yeah...
She doesn't need me any more than I need her.
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Yeah...
She doesn't need me any more than I need her.
She has her place in the scheme of things. Conservative enough to be acceptable, high profile enough to get the message out, annoying enough to be unignorable (It's her voice. I like her and admire her as a person, but her voice is grating.)
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Yeah...
She doesn't need me any more than I need her.
She didn't respond to her "baptize" comment, and instead spun it into her critics being soft on terrorism. I don't care about waterboarding terrorists; I do care about equating it to one of the most sacred actions of Christianity. I'm not religious as an adult, but I did grow up Catholic.
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She has her place in the scheme of things.
Carnival barkers have their place, too. She's thisclose to entering Michael Moore territory, IMO, with the outlandish and extremist statements she says before the poor suckers who give her money. Now, she defends the "attacks" against her, and will raise more money, and solidify her viewers, while making herself even lesser relevant as a respected political voice to the large majority of the voting public.
Doesn't she have another book coming out soon, too? That may explain her ridiculous words about baptism.
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Carnival barkers have their place, too. She's thisclose to entering Michael Moore territory, IMO, with the outlandish and extremist statements she says before the poor suckers who give her money. Now, she defends the "attacks" against her, and will raise more money, and solidify her viewers, while making herself even lesser relevant as a respected political voice to the large majority of the voting public.
Doesn't she have another book coming out soon, too? That may explain her ridiculous words about baptism.
It's all very Elmer Gantry.
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It's all very Elmer Gantry.
Yes, you went there. I hope others who read your post understand the full meaning of why you posted it.
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Look! There goes a fire truck!
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Look! There goes a fire truck!
You're the best.
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It's all very Elmer Gantry.
I understand the reference, but I'm not certain it is applicable to Sarah Palin.
If one is to assert that she has sometimes indulged in shameless self-promotion, you'll get no argument from me. However, to suggest by way of allegorical simile that Ms. Palin is also a hypocrite and a fraud... is a step over the line of what can be demonstrably proven by reliance on fact. There has been nothing in her personal life that suggests as much; if there were, it would by now have been revealed by the ravenous media.
I would offer as an alternative observation that Ms. Palin is at her best when she promotes the ideals of human liberty and free enterprise, and rather at her worst when she shines the spotlight on her own home-bottled remedy of a personality.
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I understand the reference, but I'm not certain it is applicable to Sarah Palin.
If one is to assert that she has sometimes indulged in shameless self-promotion, you'll get no argument from me. However, to suggest by way of allegorical simile that Ms. Palin is also a hypocrite and a fraud... is a step over the line of what can be demonstrably proven by reliance on fact. There has been nothing in her personal life that suggests as much; if there were, it would by now have been revealed by the ravenous media.
I would offer as an alternative observation that Ms. Palin is at her best when she promotes the ideals of human liberty and free enterprise, and rather at her worst when she shines the spotlight on her own home-bottled remedy of a personality.
Her reaction to the reaction to her statement is disturbing, and very Obamaesque in nature.
From my perspective, the most objectionable part of her statement was the mockery of the ritual of baptism. Torturing terrorists doesn't bother me.
Instead of acknowledging that perhaps she should have chosen her metaphors a little more carefully, she instead calls me a "wuss" and claims that I am soft on terrorism.
She stuck her foot in her mouth, then doubled down on it.
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Her reaction to the reaction to her statement is disturbing, and very Obamaesque in nature.
From my perspective, the most objectionable part of her statement was the mockery of the ritual of baptism. Torturing terrorists doesn't bother me.
Instead of acknowledging that perhaps she should have chosen her metaphors a little more carefully, she instead calls me a "wuss" and claims that I am soft on terrorism.
She stuck her foot in her mouth, then doubled down on it.
I was unaware that Sarah Palin was referring to you personally, when she employed the "W" word.
A number of prominent Christians have objected publicly to her baptismal analogy, as well they might.
It was characteristically careless of her, even if one believes that terrorists ought not be the subject of sympathy for being made to endure a treatment that is routinely used in training our own special forces.
The woman frustrates the heck out of me: she's on the right side of so many issues of import, but simply cannot resist the urge to open her mouth without first engaging her cerebellum.
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Her reaction to the reaction to her statement is disturbing, and very Obamaesque in nature.
From my perspective, the most objectionable part of her statement was the mockery of the ritual of baptism. Torturing terrorists doesn't bother me.
Instead of acknowledging that perhaps she should have chosen her metaphors a little more carefully, she instead calls me a "wuss" and claims that I am soft on terrorism.
She stuck her foot in her mouth, then doubled down on it.
We got that YOU were offended Luis! You've said that many times now on this one thread! And I doubt seriously that she was speaking to you personally. In fact, I seriously doubt that she even knows who you are.
Sarah has just as much a right to express her opinions as anyone else in this country!
And just so you know, I happen to agree with what she said BOTH times!
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I agree with her, too, bigun.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bm4HQrrCcAAki8g.jpg)
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We got that YOU were offended Luis! You've said that many times now on this one thread! And I doubt seriously that she was speaking to you personally. In fact, I seriously doubt that she even knows who you are.
Sarah has just as much a right to express her opinions as anyone else in this country!
And just so you know, I happen to agree with what she said BOTH times!
Bigun.
I really think that you're a good guy. In fact, I have no doubt that you are.
But I think it is our best interest that we don't communicate in this forum any more.
It's not you... it's me.
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I understand the reference, but I'm not certain it is applicable to Sarah Palin.
If one is to assert that she has sometimes indulged in shameless self-promotion, you'll get no argument from me. However, to suggest by way of allegorical simile that Ms. Palin is also a hypocrite and a fraud... is a step over the line of what can be demonstrably proven by reliance on fact. There has been nothing in her personal life that suggests as much; if there were, it would by now have been revealed by the ravenous media.
I would offer as an alternative observation that Ms. Palin is at her best when she promotes the ideals of human liberty and free enterprise, and rather at her worst when she shines the spotlight on her own home-bottled remedy of a personality.
I agree with you Andy regarding her conviction and sentiment. I believe she believes what she says. I also happen to agree with most of those sentiments. So by extension, I agree with her supporters - but only to a point.
Why?
Because I believe she is marketing a brand. A brand that has worked well for her and I admire her for it. I wish I could be in such a position. But many are buying a product beyond what is being sold. My view - she has no intention of ever running for office again.
Because her pronouncements are simply that - one-liners and cliché. Despite being right in concept, she has the depth of a wet sidewalk. She does not dwell on the intricacies of policy. She would never dare to sit on a serious panel of pundits and go toe-to-toe. Instead she provides commentary on Hannity. Which... is... fine!! It has its place but I will not elevate her to a status that I simply do not believe is warranted.
And yes, because she used an inappropriate metaphor, failed to recognize it, and failed to correct it.
This thread has had many meanderings - some of it very interesting and eye-opening. I have such respect for the service people here. But when it comes to Sarah, in most cases we are arguing the same thing but in incongruent ways. Her proponents argue that they agree with her while assuming her detractors do not. That is wrong. As a "detractor" myself I can say I agree with most of her sentiments - yes, I do. But, I accept that she is shilling her brand (which is fine). With that said, I don't like her style or her depth. That she hasn't thus far recognized that some of her followers respect the word "baptism" enough to call her on it, is indicative of that shallowness.
Respectfully to all, I'm moving on.
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I was unaware that Sarah Palin was referring to you personally, when she employed the "W" word.
A number of prominent Christians have objected publicly to her baptismal analogy, as well they might.
It was characteristically careless of her, even if one believes that terrorists ought not be the subject of sympathy for being made to endure a treatment that is routinely used in training our own special forces.
The woman frustrates the heck out of me: she's on the right side of so many issues of import, but simply cannot resist the urge to open her mouth without first engaging her cerebellum.
The only way that a person can be insulted is individually.
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The only way that a person can be insulted is individually.
The only way a person can be insulted is if they accept the insult.
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I agree with you Andy regarding her conviction and sentiment. I believe she believes what she says. I also happen to agree with most of those sentiments. So by extension, I agree with her supporters - but only to a point.
Why?
Because I believe she is marketing a brand. A brand that has worked well for her and I admire her for it. I wish I could be in such a position. But many are buying a product beyond what is being sold. My view - she has no intention of ever running for office again.
Because her pronouncements are simply that - one-liners and cliché. Despite being right in concept, she has the depth of a wet sidewalk. She does not dwell on the intricacies of policy. She would never dare to sit on a serious panel of pundits and go toe-to-toe. Instead she provides commentary on Hannity. Which... is... fine!! It has its place but I will not elevate her to a status that I simply do not believe is warranted.
And yes, because she used an inappropriate metaphor, failed to recognize it, and failed to correct it.
This thread has had many meanderings - some of it very interesting and eye-opening. I have such respect for the service people here. But when it comes to Sarah, in most cases we are arguing the same thing but in incongruent ways. Her proponents argue that they agree with her while assuming her detractors do not. That is wrong. As a "detractor" myself I can say I agree with most of her sentiments - yes, I do. But, I accept that she is shilling her brand (which is fine). With that said, I don't like her style or her depth. That she hasn't thus far recognized that some of her followers respect the word "baptism" enough to call her on it, is indicative of that shallowness.
Respectfully to all, I'm moving on.
I know that you're leaving this conversation, your insights have made the thread and the discussion incredibly informative and actually fun.
One last observation... a parting shot, if I may.
Everything that Palin does right now, she does as a "one heart beat away from the Presidency" historical figure.
She was the first Alaskan on any national ticket, and the first female to run for the VP slot for the GOP. She needs to respect both those firsts.
She is what the DNC will hold up as an example of the type of people that the GOP is willing to put at that "one-heartbeat-away" position for many years coming.
She paints all GOP women with every colorful stroke of her self-promoting "folkisms" and every "poke-the-bear" statement she makes.
Before she was a commentator on Hannity, she was a Vice Presidential candidate, and the ONLY reason that she's a commentator on Hannity is because she was a Vice Presidential candidate.
She needs to be more respectful of her place in the history of politics in the United States, and act (and speak) accordingly.
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The only way a person can be insulted is if they accept the insult.
You insult my religion, then I accept the insult.
I'm very jihadish about that.
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Lando Wrote:
"Because her pronouncements are simply that - one-liners and cliché. Despite being right in concept, she has the depth of a wet sidewalk. She does not dwell on the intricacies of policy. She would never dare to sit on a serious panel of pundits and go toe-to-toe. Instead she provides commentary on Hannity. Which... is... fine!! It has its place but I will not elevate her to a status that I simply do not believe is warranted".
Very well said Lando. I do find theads like this a lot less hostile in general than I remember from a few years back. What hasn't changed about Palin is the nature of her supporters and critics. She spits fire and draws fire, and can really get a favorable audience cranked up in a hurry. Hopefully though she's not still chumming for elective support with all that red meat she's dumping in the water.
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SARAH PALIN: Hammers “WUSSES” Crying About Her “Waterboarding Terrorists” Comment
“Actions to stop terrorists who’d utterly annihilate America and delight in massacring our innocent children? Darn right I’d do whatever it takes to foil their murderous jihadist plots – including waterboarding. Whatever one thinks of my one-liner at the NRA rally about treating evil terrorists the way they deserve to be treated to prevent the death of innocent people, it’s utterly absurd for MSNBC to suggest that I could put our beloved troops in harm’s way, but we’ve come to expect the absurd from that failing network.
If you want to talk about what really harms our troops, let’s talk about politicians who gut our military’s budgets, or a president whose skewed budgetary priorities slash military benefits, or an administration that puts our vets on endless waiting lists for care that comes too late to help those who’ve paid the price for our freedom, or those who break bread with those who think it makes no difference how our military heroes died in Benghazi or anywhere else trying to protect America. Those actions are a heck of a lot more harmful than declaring an appropriate message our enemies should receive. If some overly sensitive wusses took offense, remember the First Amendment doesn’t give you a right not to be offended.
Perhaps hypocritical folks who only want Freedom of Speech to apply to those who agree with their liberal agenda might want to consider that the evil terrorists who were the brunt of my one-liner would be the first to strip away ALL our rights if given the chance. That’s why we do whatever we can to prevent them from killing innocent people. And for that, we should NEVER apologize. Good Lord, critics… buck up or stay in the truck. And if you love freedom, thank our troops! Thank our vets! And thank those who have the brains to support them and the guts to defend what they have earned!”
- Sarah Palin
Read more at http://clashdaily.com/2014/05/sarah-palin-hammers-wusses-crying-waterboarding-terrorists-comment/#A2YVxhD1MdWxk0bC.99
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Freedom of speech translating to freedom of criticism from the exercise of your freedom of speech only makes sense to abject morons.
Your freedom to say something moronic and insult people who hold the rite of baptism as one of the sacred tenets of their religion is your own, but it is my right to exercise my own freedom of speech and call you out on the fact that you cheapened one of the tenets of my religions in order to make a sound bite and get some attention from the media.
You think we should torture terrorists?
Go right ahead... I'm with you. I'll hold one down while you work him over.
Leave my religion out of your sound bites.