The Briefing Room

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 01:20:06 pm

Title: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 01:20:06 pm
Just curious about how many are currently or recently in the process of giving up smoking? How long have you smoked? How many times have you tried to quit?
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: mystery-ak on March 19, 2014, 01:25:52 pm
I quit 6 years ago April 1st....and would kill for a smoke..lol..it's just a matter of will power.

...btw I did it cold turkey.....
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: EC on March 19, 2014, 01:27:53 pm
Had my first cigarette at 7. Smoked ever since. Thought of quitting a few times, not bothered yet. Best I can do is get myself down to about 5 a day.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: xyno on March 19, 2014, 01:33:41 pm
Never smoked.  But then, I'm only 7.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 01:51:17 pm
I quit 6 years ago April 1st....and would kill for a smoke..lol..it's just a matter of will power.

...btw I did it cold turkey.....
Good for you!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 01:52:27 pm
Had my first cigarette at 7. Smoked ever since. Thought of quitting a few times, not bothered yet. Best I can do is get myself down to about 5 a day.
Damn!! 7 is pretty young!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 01:53:25 pm
Never smoked.  But then, I'm only 7.
Uh huh. I'm the Easter Bunny. Nice to meet you, Kid.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: xyno on March 19, 2014, 01:58:19 pm
I quit 6 years ago April 1st....and would kill for a smoke..lol..it's just a matter of will power.

...btw I did it cold turkey.....

Well done m-ak! 
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: sinkspur on March 19, 2014, 01:58:51 pm
Smoke two or three cigars a week.  Don't inhale. 

I go on two and three-week stretches and don't smoke at all.    But nothing like a good cigar and a glass of Port.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: EC on March 19, 2014, 02:02:13 pm
Damn!! 7 is pretty young!

Never lived on a sheep farm, did you?  :beer:

You know that phrase, "blowing smoke up your ass?" You do that to sheep, since it paralyses the bot fly grubs and you can pull them out with a pair of tweezers. Their claws let go. One of the less savory aspects of hill farming. Also works on ticks in the ears.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: alicewonders on March 19, 2014, 02:04:37 pm
It will be 28 years this year since I quit.  My husband quit almost 10 years ago.  I smoked 2 1/2 packs a day, he was a chain smoker.  That 18 year gap was very hard for me with him smoking around me all of the time.  He tried to quit a few times, but just couldn't.  I hated the smell of it, and it got so that the clicking sound of his Zippo lighter would cause a nerve tremor and facial tic in me.  I nagged at him constantly about it - it wasn't pleasant.

One day, my mother (God bless her) said, "let's just start praying every day for him to quit".

We set a certain time that every day we would both stop what we were doing and say a prayer for him to quit smoking.  We did this faithfully for over a year. 

One day he came home and said, "I've quit smoking." -He still had an open pack left and packs left in the carton!  He never smoked another cigarette.

He knows if he smokes one, he would start again.  Me, I still bum a menthol off a friend of mine about once a month (not around my husband though).

 ***cool cat*** 
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: alicewonders on March 19, 2014, 02:09:49 pm
Never lived on a sheep farm, did you?  :beer:

You know that phrase, "blowing smoke up your ass?" You do that to sheep, since it paralyses the bot fly grubs and you can pull them out with a pair of tweezers. Their claws let go. One of the less savory aspects of hill farming. Also works on ticks in the ears.

My father was about that age when he started smoking, picking up butts that adults dropped on the ground.  For all of my childhood, he smoked non-filter Camels.  Later, he switched to a pipe, thinking it was healthier.  He grew up on a farm too, but they didn't have sheep. 
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 02:15:16 pm
Never lived on a sheep farm, did you?  :beer:

You know that phrase, "blowing smoke up your ass?" You do that to sheep, since it paralyses the bot fly grubs and you can pull them out with a pair of tweezers. Their claws let go. One of the less savory aspects of hill farming. Also works on ticks in the ears.

I grew up on a dairy farm. No sheep at all. I understand where you're coming from, though. One good thing about living on a farm is you can experience all manner of things that city kids would never understand.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 02:18:00 pm
It will be 28 years this year since I quit.  My husband quit almost 10 years ago.  I smoked 2 1/2 packs a day, he was a chain smoker.  That 18 year gap was very hard for me with him smoking around me all of the time.  He tried to quit a few times, but just couldn't.  I hated the smell of it, and it got so that the clicking sound of his Zippo lighter would cause a nerve tremor and facial tic in me.  I nagged at him constantly about it - it wasn't pleasant.

One day, my mother (God bless her) said, "let's just start praying every day for him to quit".

We set a certain time that every day we would both stop what we were doing and say a prayer for him to quit smoking.  We did this faithfully for over a year. 

One day he came home and said, "I've quit smoking." -He still had an open pack left and packs left in the carton!  He never smoked another cigarette.

He knows if he smokes one, he would start again.  Me, I still bum a menthol off a friend of mine about once a month (not around my husband though).

 ***cool cat***
How cool is that? Good for both you and your husband!!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: xyno on March 19, 2014, 03:16:21 pm
I grew up on a dairy farm. No sheep at all. I understand where you're coming from, though. One good thing about living on a farm is you can experience all manner of things that city kids would never understand.

Packer fan, dairy farm.  Hmmm... Wisconsin, perhaps?
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 03:19:58 pm
Packer fan, dairy farm.  Hmmm... Wisconsin, perhaps?

You bet! Born and raised there!



Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: xyno on March 19, 2014, 03:37:29 pm
You bet! Born and raised there!

I wish Kevin Greene was still on the coaching staff with the Packers.  He'd get Julius Peppers' motor running!  Go Pack Go!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 03:59:08 pm
I wish Kevin Greene was still on the coaching staff with the Packers.  He'd get Julius Peppers' motor running!  Go Pack Go!
I really liked having Greene on the sidelines! He was and remains a real beast! That said, I think that we are going to be just fine this coming season. I am a huge fan of Ted Thompson and trust in his judgement, 100%.

I had the honor of being able to drink some beers and talk some serious football with Thompson back in the days when he was playing for the Houston Oilers. I swear, the man is a football genius! I'm not kidding, either.

I really like the idea of having Peppers added to our defense. I see good things happening this season.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: xyno on March 19, 2014, 04:07:53 pm

I really like the idea of having Peppers added to our defense. I see good things happening this season.

Thanks for the comments.  All of them!

I feel good too.  It always comes down to health, doesn't it?
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 04:20:00 pm
Thanks for the comments.  All of them!

I feel good too.  It always comes down to health, doesn't it?
You bet!

GO!! PACK!! GO!!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: NavyCanDo on March 19, 2014, 06:15:12 pm
I started when I was about 16 when a pack was about 50 cents. I quit when they hit a dollar a pack at age 25.    I was thinking who is crazy enough to pay a dollar a pack?   What are they now?   $8.31 a pack here in Washington.    If I would ask someone how would they like to get a $3000 raise this year, everyone would say “ hell yea”.   Well all they have to do is stop smoking.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: WAYNE on March 19, 2014, 07:06:13 pm
  I had my first smoke in 1948. Didnt know how to smoke really . I started smoking for real when I was 12 and smoked for 50 or so years . I tried to quit about 20 or 30 times butt gave them up cold turkey about 8 years ago.
  I'm still amazed at what I put myself through to "learn" to smoke .  When I started it was cool..
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: mountaineer on March 19, 2014, 07:15:31 pm
Never smoked, probably because my grandfather started at age 12 and died at 64.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Olivia on March 19, 2014, 07:26:54 pm
I was a two pack a day smoker but actually hated smoking...wanted to quit so bad but didn't want the patches.
I bought plastic straws, cut them in half and smoked them for a couple of weeks.  Weren't anything but air but it put me through the motion of smoking, plus, I put a rubber band on my arm and snapped it for something to do with my hands.  It took a couple of weeks but I made it.  That was fifteen years ago.  I could still smoke but, wow...I will not pay for them!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: DCPatriot on March 19, 2014, 07:40:15 pm

Back in 1968...played a lot of pinochle  and somebody bet dinner for two (one couple) at the restaurant of one's choice for the 1st person to stop smoking.

At the time I was opening up and stocking four different stores at a new regional mall sitting in the middle of a freaking 250 acre cornfield.

Started at sunrise and went home at midnight.....for about two weeks.

Nothing was open in the mall...some places didn't even have electricity yet.

We'd send the stockboys out for hotdogs and burgers, etc......it was the easiest bet to win when you don't have access.

Haven't smoked...(tobacco) since.  LOL!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 10:45:43 pm
  I had my first smoke in 1948. Didnt know how to smoke really . I started smoking for real when I was 12 and smoked for 50 or so years . I tried to quit about 20 or 30 times butt gave them up cold turkey about 8 years ago.
  I'm still amazed at what I put myself through to "learn" to smoke .  When I started it was cool..

Ain't that the truth? Hell, even Rod Serling had the smoke going during his opening to the Twilight Zone!

And, you're right. Learning to smoke Pall Mall unfiltered cigarettes was a bitch!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 10:47:54 pm
I was a two pack a day smoker but actually hated smoking...wanted to quit so bad but didn't want the patches.
I bought plastic straws, cut them in half and smoked them for a couple of weeks.  Weren't anything but air but it put me through the motion of smoking, plus, I put a rubber band on my arm and snapped it for something to do with my hands.  It took a couple of weeks but I made it.  That was fifteen years ago.  I could still smoke but, wow...I will not pay for them!

"It's not weird if it works!!"

Congratulations!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 19, 2014, 10:49:57 pm
Back in 1968...played a lot of pinochle  and somebody bet dinner for two (one couple) at the restaurant of one's choice for the 1st person to stop smoking.

At the time I was opening up and stocking four different stores at a new regional mall sitting in the middle of a freaking 250 acre cornfield.

Started at sunrise and went home at midnight.....for about two weeks.

Nothing was open in the mall...some places didn't even have electricity yet.

We'd send the stockboys out for hotdogs and burgers, etc......it was the easiest bet to win when you don't have access.

Haven't smoked...(tobacco) since.  LOL!

Malls will be a popular hunting ground for Zombies when the apocalypse hits.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: alicewonders on March 19, 2014, 11:59:51 pm

Haven't smoked...(tobacco) since.  LOL!

Me too!    :smokin:   :whistle:
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: TheMom on March 20, 2014, 03:17:14 am
I have quit smoking twice, both times cold turkey.

The first time was after ten years of smoking ~ I quit because I became pregnant.  I did not smoke for seven years, although the cravings never went away.

Five years later I quit again due to medication I was prescribed (on a side note - the medication did not agree with my body and I quit taking it after two months).  That go round lasted four years; one evening while alone at my dad's place, before he passed away, my brain said 'I want a cigarette', I went and bought a pack and the rest was history.  That was ten years ago.

On Monday I decided that it is time to quit again (which I will do once those four packs are gone).  In this past year I have had bronchitis three time ~ which I know is partially a result of smoking.  Plus, geez it is hard to find a decent place to have a smoke!  I will do as I have with the other times and go cold turkey.

On a separate note - last June (06-12-13) my husband had a major heart attack, which was brought on by genetics, stress, diet and smoking.   While stuck in the hospital he bitched, moaned and complained about wanting a cigarette.  I went to the local drug store and bought him the temporary e-cigs ~ which not only held him over, but received the approval of his cardiologist and the nursing staff.  Ten months later, my husband has not had a 'real' cigarette.   He is puffing the heck out of those e-cigs, but not a 'real' cigarette.  Today he said with the next order of e-cig replacements he will get some with zero nicotine.

My $0.02 worth regarding e-cigs and those that want to ban them . . . (1) the multi million dollar "quit smoking" industry (that really doesn't work) is losing money, therefore pitching a bitch; (2) oops! the anti-smoking BS folks have realize that those things work and damn we are going to loose a crap ton of tax money; (3) Smoke Nazi's are just not happy in general.

Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: DCPatriot on March 20, 2014, 03:24:11 am
Few times I felt 'weak' and needed a smoke, I'd remember what those dirty ashtrays smelled like in hot, soapy dishwater.

Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 20, 2014, 03:41:50 am
I was a two pack a day smoker but actually hated smoking...wanted to quit so bad but didn't want the patches.
I bought plastic straws, cut them in half and smoked them for a couple of weeks.  Weren't anything but air but it put me through the motion of smoking, plus, I put a rubber band on my arm and snapped it for something to do with my hands.  It took a couple of weeks but I made it.  That was fifteen years ago.  I could still smoke but, wow...I will not pay for them!


A friend's mother did exactly the same thing, and it worked like a charm (although my friend said she used to get a little embarrassed when mom pulled out the pack of straws).

Personally, I quit once for 1 year and a half when my daughter was born, and quit again on April 1, 2009, so it's been almost 5 years now, and so far no real urges to go start up again.

Someone mentioned getting a "raise" by quitting: don't I know it.  The final thing that finally pushed me to quit when I did was paying $10 for a pack of cigarettes.  They're now about $12 a pack in NYC (where I live now they're still about $10 a pack).  I smoked a pack to a pack and a half a day, so I figure that, including the number of sodas and cups of coffee I no longer buy - I always had to have something to drink when I smoked - I figure I've been saving myself about $5,000 a year, which means that by April 1 of this year I will have saved about $25,000 by not smoking for the past 5 years.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: happyg on March 20, 2014, 12:12:06 pm
I'm a smoker. I bought an electric cig maker, so the cost is around $7 a carton or less (Ohio). I have Chantix ($236) that I'm going to try next week. Too much going on this week. My son, who lives in NY is a smoker ($10 a pack). I bought him the machine, too, but he prefers those small Marlboros, so I'm still spending money sending them to him at $5 a pack. I offered him Chantix so we can quit together. Fingers crossed, and lots of prayers!

My sisters quit 20 plus years ago, and still have the urge. I need to find another bad habit.  **nononono*
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 01:04:58 pm

 I figure I've been saving myself about $5,000 a year, which means that by April 1 of this year I will have saved about $25,000 by not smoking for the past 5 years.

I trust that you have reported this "income" to the IRS?
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 01:07:50 pm
I have quit smoking twice, both times cold turkey.

The first time was after ten years of smoking ~ I quit because I became pregnant.  I did not smoke for seven years, although the cravings never went away.

Five years later I quit again due to medication I was prescribed (on a side note - the medication did not agree with my body and I quit taking it after two months).  That go round lasted four years; one evening while alone at my dad's place, before he passed away, my brain said 'I want a cigarette', I went and bought a pack and the rest was history.  That was ten years ago.

On Monday I decided that it is time to quit again (which I will do once those four packs are gone).  In this past year I have had bronchitis three time ~ which I know is partially a result of smoking.  Plus, geez it is hard to find a decent place to have a smoke!  I will do as I have with the other times and go cold turkey.

On a separate note - last June (06-12-13) my husband had a major heart attack, which was brought on by genetics, stress, diet and smoking.   While stuck in the hospital he bitched, moaned and complained about wanting a cigarette.  I went to the local drug store and bought him the temporary e-cigs ~ which not only held him over, but received the approval of his cardiologist and the nursing staff.  Ten months later, my husband has not had a 'real' cigarette.   He is puffing the heck out of those e-cigs, but not a 'real' cigarette.  Today he said with the next order of e-cig replacements he will get some with zero nicotine.

My $0.02 worth regarding e-cigs and those that want to ban them . . . (1) the multi million dollar "quit smoking" industry (that really doesn't work) is losing money, therefore pitching a bitch; (2) oops! the anti-smoking BS folks have realize that those things work and damn we are going to loose a crap ton of tax money; (3) Smoke Nazi's are just not happy in general.

WOW! The way that these idiots in Gubmint are attacking the e-cigs is totally nuts! You would think that these people would endorse and encourage people to use them.   :thud:
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 20, 2014, 01:22:27 pm
I trust that you have reported this "income" to the IRS?

:bigsilly:
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: mystery-ak on March 20, 2014, 01:31:02 pm
I'm a smoker. I bought an electric cig maker, so the cost is around $7 a carton or less (Ohio). I have Chantix ($236) that I'm going to try next week. Too much going on this week. My son, who lives in NY is a smoker ($10 a pack). I bought him the machine, too, but he prefers those small Marlboros, so I'm still spending money sending them to him at $5 a pack. I offered him Chantix so we can quit together. Fingers crossed, and lots of prayers!

My sisters quit 20 plus years ago, and still have the urge. I need to find another bad habit.  **nononono*

I hope you have better luck with Chantix than I did...after I started the 2nd week with the additional pill I was walking into walls...literally!

Your sisters are right...after 6 years I still crave them and every once in a while I find myself looking for my lighter and cigs at my desk...lol

Good luck...as you can see by all the posts quitting can be done...but it does take strong will power to achieve it.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: aligncare on March 20, 2014, 01:38:26 pm
I started when I was about 16 when a pack was about 50 cents. I quit when they hit a dollar a pack at age 25.    I was thinking who is crazy enough to pay a dollar a pack?   What are they now?   $8.31 a pack here in Washington.    If I would ask someone how would they like to get a $3000 raise this year, everyone would say “ hell yea”.   Well all they have to do is stop smoking.

$14 in New York City. If that isn't incentive to quit I don't know what could be.

I quit after my right lung collapsed while jogging back in 1973. Flirted with it off and on, mostly off, a few years after that.

Grateful to be a non-smoker. Damn, who could possibly afford $14 a pack?
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: mountaineer on March 20, 2014, 01:59:53 pm
I believe they're still somewhere around $4-5 a pack in W.Va. Come here to buy your cigs, smokers, we need the revenue!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 02:31:32 pm
I started this topic because this week I began my "Quit". I started smoking 48 years ago and have tried to quit on several occasions to no avail. I made up my mind, that this time I am going to do it, once and for all.

Over the course of the past month, I have been having exams covering ever aspect of my health and physical condition. I have no issues with mobility, flexibility or even stamina. So far, my 62 year old body is holding up better that it should be considering all the abuse (diet, alcohol, smoking) I have put it through. I was diagnosed with diabetes (type 2) 6 1/2 years ago, but have gotten that under control through changing diet and cutting out the excessive drinking. I do enjoy a nice glass of red wine, daily (heart), but that's about it.

I figure that quitting smoking is something that I can do to reward myself. My goal is to stick around long enough to be a real pain in the ass to my kids and to blow through their inheritance.

Reading all of your comments has been a joy and a help. Y'all have given me an added perspective and motivation.

Thank You for sharing your experiences and giving me something to think about!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 20, 2014, 02:45:34 pm
$14 in New York City. If that isn't incentive to quit I don't know what could be.

I quit after my right lung collapsed while jogging back in 1973. Flirted with it off and on, mostly off, a few years after that.

Grateful to be a non-smoker. Damn, who could possibly afford $14 a pack?

Apparently quite a few people still can; unless they're traveling out of state to buy them, or rolling their own.  At those prices it might just make sense for someone to drive to WV, fill the trunk and back seat with cartons of cigarettes - tastefully reboxed as something else, just in case the NYPD nannies get nosy - and drive back.  If the going price in WV is $5/pack, that makes a $9/pack differential.  NYC to Martinsburg, WV is about 270 miles each way, so assume 560 miles total round trip.  If we took my car, a '99 Mercury Grand Marquis that gets about 25mpg at 60-65mph, that works out to 23 gallons (rounded up) for the round trip.  The current price of a gallon of premium gas along I-81 in PA is approximately $3.80 right now (I get too many knocks if I don't run premium).  That works out to fuel costs of $87.40 - round it to $90.  However, there are tolls to be paid as well coming out of, and going back into, NYC along I-78 (we're taking I-81 to avoid the tolls, and traffic, on the NJ Turnpike).  A quickie google indicates that tolls roundtrip will probably be about $20.  Timewise, the drive itself will take about 5 hours each way, and buying the smokes and loading the car is likely to take about 2 hours (I'm guessing here), for a total time commitment of about 12 hours - tiring, but I've done worse before - so we'll assume that we don't stay overnight anywhere on the road.  We will have to eat, though, and get drinks and noshes for the ride.  For one person, I'm going to guess that we're looking at two meals (that's what I've usually done on long trips like that), plus at least 3 or 4 big sodas and a large bag of doritos (ranch flavored, of course).  All in, I'm going to budget $30 for meals and noshes round trip.

That brings our total estimated costs for a round trip to Martinsburg, WV for smokes - assuming we go with prevailing traffic and don't get any speeding tickets!!! - to be about $140, which I will again round up to $150 just to be conservative (and who knows, I might want to sneak in a third meal!).  I'm going to leave out depreciation on the car as well as apportioned values for insurance and the like - those are sunk costs that I would have paid anyways and I'm really just interested in marginal costs here.

Which brings us to the whole point of the exercise:  how many packs of cigarettes would we have to buy to make the trip worthwhile?  Since we're smokers I'm going to assume that we smoke two packs of cigarettes on the drive (that's probably what I would have smoked back in the day), so those two have to be factored in.  Well, the price differential is $9 per pack, and $150 / $9 = 16.67, which rounds to 17; adding in those two we smoked on the trip means that - assuming we don't mind the ride - we would have to buy 19 packs of cigarettes in Martinsburg to make the trip just break even.  That's right, it's less expensive to drive to Martinsburg, WV from NYC to buy two cartons of cigarettes - 20 measly packs - than it is to just buy them in NYC.  A banker's box should be able to hold 10 cartons of cigarettes, and my car can hold about 22 banker's boxes in the trunk and back seat combined.  So, we could fit about 220 cartons, or about 2,200 packs, of cigarettes in my car.  If we take out 2 cartons - 20 packs - of cigarettes to cover the costs incurred, that leaves us with about 2,180 packs' worth of pure profit at $9/pack, for a total profit of about $19,620.  That's not bad for a day's work mostly spent driving on the interstate, listening to the radio and smoking as you please.

Of course, that sort of profit is unrealistic unless one wants to get into the smuggling racket because unloading that many packs of cigarettes at $14/pack will be difficult, particularly since they don't carry the NYS tax stamps.  Still, if we take a 50% haircut on account of the difficulties and risks of selling cigarettes without NYS tax stamps, we still have a net profit of about $9,800 - still not too bad for a day's work.

Organized crime has figured this out as well.  Here's a story from 2012 about VA's concerns with increased cigarette smuggling:

Quote
Virginia crime panel examining cigarette trafficking (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/09/virginia-crime-panel-examining-cigarette-trafficking)
 By Larry O'Dell
The Associated Press
© September 5, 2012   

RICHMOND

Cigarette smuggling has become so lucrative that organized crime is getting involved, and many former drug dealers have switched to peddling contraband smokes instead of narcotics, the Virginia State Crime Commission was told Wednesday.

The General Assembly last winter directed the commission to study illegal cigarette trafficking and make recommendations before the 2013 legislative session, which begins in January. The commission's staff conducted the investigation and will present its recommendations at the next meeting in November.

G. Stewart Petoe, the commission's legal affairs director, said the amount of money cigarette smugglers can make is staggering. That's because they can buy a pack of premium cigarettes for about $5.55 in Virginia and sell it for a big profit on the black market in New York City, where a higher cigarette excise tax pushes the retail price to about $14 a pack.

Smuggle enough cigarettes and the payday can be enormous. Petoe said a federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent estimated that a car can carry 10 cases of cigarettes — there are 60 cartons in a case — with an estimated profit of $34,000. Upgrade to a van, and 50 cases can turn a $170,000 profit. A large truckload can haul 800 cases and net a profit of $4 million.

Petoe said he was stunned by a Virginia State Police agent's observation that bootlegged cigarettes now have a higher profit margin than cocaine, heroin, marijuana or guns.

"It has just become irresistible for organized crime, and when they come to Virginia, they will bring ancillary violent crime with them," Petoe said.

He added that drug dealers are switching to smokes not only for the money, but also because they face less prison time if they're caught.

Petoe said cigarette smuggling is booming because many states, particularly those north of Virginia, have increased their cigarette excise taxes in recent years. Virginia — the nation's fifth-largest tobacco producer and home of its most prolific cigarette factory — has the country's second-lowest tax: $3 per carton. The tax is $43.50 in New York state and $58.50 in New York City.

According to Petoe, a recent study found that 30 percent of all cigarettes in New York City came from out of state — and of those, 71 percent were from Virginia.

"As the second-lowest tax state, we're setting ourselves up to be complicit," said state Sen. Janet Howell, D-Fairfax, who added that she wasn't necessarily suggesting a tax increase.

Petoe said one of the simplest and fastest-growing methods of bootlegging is called "smurfing." Individual smugglers or small groups buy cartons of cigarettes at multiple locations throughout the day, then haul them out of state for resale on the black market.

Commission staff members conducting the study hung out for a while at a convenience store off Interstate 95 in the Richmond area, Petoe said, and watched one customer get out of a car and buy five cartons of cigarettes and return to the vehicle. Then another person got out of the car and did the same thing.

"It's very clear what they were doing," Petoe said.

Some cigarette traffickers seeking to maximize their illicit gains have established bogus retail operations so they can buy in bulk from wholesalers, Petoe said. He added that there are myriad other schemes involving forged tax stamps, selling cigarettes "off the books" to evade taxes, international smuggling and importing counterfeit cigarettes.

"The ingenuity of criminals is flabbergasting," Petoe said.

The commission also began examining whether the state needs to improve the process for gathering forensic evidence from sexual assault victims who are incapable of giving consent for the testing, but no recommendations were made.


here's my favorite takeaway from the article:

Quote
Petoe said he was stunned by a Virginia State Police agent's observation that bootlegged cigarettes now have a higher profit margin than cocaine, heroin, marijuana or guns.

Pretty amazing, isn't it.  The Nanny fascists in NY have basically created a welfare-for-mobsters with their insane taxes.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 20, 2014, 02:47:17 pm
I started this topic because this week I began my "Quit". I started smoking 48 years ago and have tried to quit on several occasions to no avail. I made up my mind, that this time I am going to do it, once and for all.

Over the course of the past month, I have been having exams covering ever aspect of my health and physical condition. I have no issues with mobility, flexibility or even stamina. So far, my 62 year old body is holding up better that it should be considering all the abuse (diet, alcohol, smoking) I have put it through. I was diagnosed with diabetes (type 2) 6 1/2 years ago, but have gotten that under control through changing diet and cutting out the excessive drinking. I do enjoy a nice glass of red wine, daily (heart), but that's about it.

I figure that quitting smoking is something that I can do to reward myself. My goal is to stick around long enough to be a real pain in the ass to my kids and to blow through their inheritance.

Reading all of your comments has been a joy and a help. Y'all have given me an added perspective and motivation.

Thank You for sharing your experiences and giving me something to think about!

You can absolutely do it.  Best thing I did was to stop doing the things I most associated with smoking - like going out for a walk in the early morning to get a cup of coffee and a newspaper and smoke on the way there and on the way back - and find other things to do to keep yourself occupied.

Hang tough, you'll do it!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 02:57:01 pm
You can absolutely do it.  Best thing I did was to stop doing the things I most associated with smoking - like going out for a walk in the early morning to get a cup of coffee and a newspaper and smoke on the way there and on the way back - and find other things to do to keep yourself occupied.

Hang tough, you'll do it!

Thanks! I'm doing better this time than any prior efforts! I think that I have learned from my past mistakes/failures, but it helps to know that others have done so with success.

 :beer: :patriot:
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: alicewonders on March 20, 2014, 02:58:49 pm
I started this topic because this week I began my "Quit". I started smoking 48 years ago and have tried to quit on several occasions to no avail. I made up my mind, that this time I am going to do it, once and for all.

Over the course of the past month, I have been having exams covering ever aspect of my health and physical condition. I have no issues with mobility, flexibility or even stamina. So far, my 62 year old body is holding up better that it should be considering all the abuse (diet, alcohol, smoking) I have put it through. I was diagnosed with diabetes (type 2) 6 1/2 years ago, but have gotten that under control through changing diet and cutting out the excessive drinking. I do enjoy a nice glass of red wine, daily (heart), but that's about it.

I figure that quitting smoking is something that I can do to reward myself. My goal is to stick around long enough to be a real pain in the ass to my kids and to blow through their inheritance.

Reading all of your comments has been a joy and a help. Y'all have given me an added perspective and motivation.

Thank You for sharing your experiences and giving me something to think about!

I will say a prayer for your success Howie.  I'll tell you how I quit.  Everyone says cold turkey is the best way to go, but I weaned myself off and it really worked.  First, I told myself that I could smoke anywhere except for when I was driving.  I determined that was the easiest place for me to start giving up - it may be different for you. After a week or so, I was good with that - couldn't wait to get out of the car to smoke, but I had proven to myself that I was able to do that. 

Then, I kept cutting places I could smoke - the last places that were left for me were my desk at work (back in the days you could still smoke in your office) and restaurants and bars.  Bars were the last place for me to quit, and the hardest.  But I was able to do it eventually.  I think because of the method I used, I am still able - to this day - to bum a cigarette about once a month and smoke it with no ill effects.  My doctor told me if that is all I smoke - don't worry about it. 

My husband said that method would never work for him and most ex-smokers I know say it's cold turkey or nothing.  But this worked for me.  Good luck!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: aligncare on March 20, 2014, 03:01:57 pm
The best part is once you get over the cravings – which, admittedly, last years – you don't miss it ever again. I equate it to missing getting hit in the head with a ball peen hammer 20 or 30 times a day.  It's not something you miss.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: truth_seeker on March 20, 2014, 03:08:07 pm
There is evidence here of a federal crime, interstate tobacco trafficking. That could get attention from ATF officers.

Seriously here is another resource. This Englishman named Allen Carr wrote a book, which several people I know, swear by. It is an informed cold-turkey method.

http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Carrs-Easy-Stop-Smoking/dp/0615482155
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: aligncare on March 20, 2014, 03:18:03 pm
Something else that helps.

Self talk or self reinforcement. Run a tape in your head on all the reasons why you hate smoking. Run it over and over again whenever you get a craving.

Talk to people about why you hate smoking. Become a real dick about non-smoking – screw smokers' opinions.

You have a chance at becoming a non-smoker. Don't lose that battle. Save your life, man. Take control and save your own life.

Smoking kills you, a "silly little millimeter" at a time.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 03:30:57 pm
I will say a prayer for your success Howie.  I'll tell you how I quit.  Everyone says cold turkey is the best way to go, but I weaned myself off and it really worked.  First, I told myself that I could smoke anywhere except for when I was driving.  I determined that was the easiest place for me to start giving up - it may be different for you. After a week or so, I was good with that - couldn't wait to get out of the car to smoke, but I had proven to myself that I was able to do that. 

Then, I kept cutting places I could smoke - the last places that were left for me were my desk at work (back in the days you could still smoke in your office) and restaurants and bars.  Bars were the last place for me to quit, and the hardest.  But I was able to do it eventually.  I think because of the method I used, I am still able - to this day - to bum a cigarette about once a month and smoke it with no ill effects.  My doctor told me if that is all I smoke - don't worry about it. 

My husband said that method would never work for him and most ex-smokers I know say it's cold turkey or nothing.  But this worked for me.  Good luck!

Thank you, Ma'am! I quit smoking while in my truck when I bought it brand new, 5 years ago. I had never bought a new vehicle and never will again. But, smoking in it was something that I simply made up my mind to not do. We have lived in our house for 19 years now, and I have never smoked in it as a show of respect to my wife who has never smoked. So, my places to smoke were already limited. I have to say that the more limitations, the better.

Right now, I'm just handling the urges as they come. I am determined to beat this thing. And, I will.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 03:32:23 pm
The best part is once you get over the cravings – which, admittedly, last years – you don't miss it ever again. I equate it to missing getting hit in the head with a ball peen hammer 20 or 30 times a day.  It's not something you miss.

Joe Biden likes getting hit in the brain housing group with a ball-peen hammer. That's how his plugs were installed.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 03:34:38 pm
Something else that helps.

Self talk or self reinforcement. Run a tape in your head on all the reasons why you hate smoking. Run it over and over again whenever you get a craving.

Talk to people about why you hate smoking. Become a real dick about non-smoking – screw smokers' opinions.

You have a chance at becoming a non-smoker. Don't lose that battle. Save your life, man. Take control and save your own life.

Smoking kills you, a "silly little millimeter" at a time.

Thank you for the encouraging words! Being a dick is something I can do quite well!   :whistle:
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Howie66 on March 20, 2014, 03:37:15 pm
There is evidence here of a federal crime, interstate tobacco trafficking. That could get attention from ATF officers.

Seriously here is another resource. This Englishman named Allen Carr wrote a book, which several people I know, swear by. It is an informed cold-turkey method.

http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Carrs-Easy-Stop-Smoking/dp/0615482155

Thanks for the head's up. Will scope this out!
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: truth_seeker on March 21, 2014, 04:01:23 pm
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-boom-in-smuggling-to-avoid-cigarette-taxes/

The boom in smuggling to avoid cigarette taxes

More than half of the cigarettes sold in New York State are smuggled in from other places to avoid the Empire State's taxes on smokes, which have soared nearly 200 percent since 2006, according to a report issued by the conservative Tax Foundation.

New York is the highest net importer of smuggled cigarettes -- illegal smokes account for 56.9 percent of the state's total market. New York's cigarettes tax is $4.35 per pack, the country's highest. The situation there isn't unique. The Tax Foundation also cites a study that found that 58.7 percent of discarded cigarettes found in five Northeastern cities lacked proper tax stamps.

Taxes on cigarettes, which are designed to discourage smoking, vary widely. States such as Missouri, North Carolina and Virginia have levies of less than a $1 per pack. These wide differences make smuggling "both a national problem and a lucrative criminal enterprise," according to the Tax Foundation.


Antismoking activists have long argued that fewer people will buy cigarettes if they're expensive. Chicago recently raised its cigarette taxes for that reason. Combined with state and local levies, the total is now $7.17 a pack.

snip
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 21, 2014, 04:44:20 pm
more from that story:

Quote
The smuggling problem "is a lot smaller than the study lets on," said Thomas Carr, director of national policy at the American Lung Association, noting that the Tax Foundation's data come from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, which has received funding from the tobacco industry. "Tobacco companies are generally against higher tobacco taxes."

How does he know?  Has he done any studies, or seen any competing studies, that tell a different story?  If so, why isn't he releasing them or pointing them out to the general public.
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 21, 2014, 04:52:34 pm
Here's an interesting graphic from the underlying article:

(http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/Chart-1_large.jpg)

Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: EC on March 21, 2014, 04:55:09 pm
Can't remember the last time I bought a legit pack of cigarettes.

Wife gets them duty free, and I have family who "fish."
Title: Re: STOP SMOKING?
Post by: Oceander on March 21, 2014, 04:58:38 pm
Running a small-time operation in NY just to make some extra walking-around money shouldn't be too hard:  just find some friends and family who smoke and tell them you'll get them cigarettes at $8 a pack.  Once you've got orders for at least 100 cartons (i.e., 1,000 packs), hop in the car, drive to WV, go to various convenience stores, etc, purchase a few cartons at each one, and by the end of the day you should be able to drive back with a full load.  Given the WV prices, at $8 a pack you'll net $4 a pack, which means on 1,000 packs you'll have gross profit of $4,000, less travel expenses of $200 (approx.), leaves you with net profit of about $3,800.  Not bad for a weekend's work.  To encourage your customers to buy in bulk, you could even offer a bulk discount; perhaps you'd start off charging $10 a pack for up to 10 packs, then scale it on down until you're asking, perhaps, $7 per pack for a 20 carton purchase.

So long as you're judicious about what you do, and carry the cigarette cartons back in innocuous looking boxes (so that to highway patrol you look like you're moving or something), keep your car in good working order, and obey the speed limit, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

Another wrinkle that would probably make you less likely to attract unwanted attention from local law enforcement in WV (or wherever you're sourcing from) would be to rent a car locally when you get there so you have a car with WV license plates.  Since law enforcement is already clued in about the multiple small purchases routine, anyone surveilling a store you go into is likely to be more suspicious if your car has out-of-state plates.  That would add about $100 to your expenses, which leaves you with $3,700 net profit; still not a bad haul.  It might also be wise to stay overnight in a motel so you can make the transfer from one car to the next without being blatantly obvious by moving large quantities of cigarette cartons from one trunk to the next all at the same time.  So add on another $100 for an overnight stay at a decent motel.  Net profit is now $3,600, which still ain't shabby.

Do that 4 times a year - once each calendar quarter - and you're netting about $14,000 a year.