The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: TomSea on June 15, 2018, 02:08:46 am
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Egypt: Christian arrested for carrying water bottle during Ramadan
Mark Ellis
By Mark Ellis —
Hani Shamshoun Girgis was arrested for carrying a bottle of water during Ramadan. (World Watch Monitor)
An Egyptian Christian was held by police for carrying a bottle of water during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, when Muslims are required to fast from sun-up to sundown, according to World Watch Monitor (WWM).
Hani Girgis, 31, a photographer with the Tahrir newspaper, arrived at Giza railway station, when he was approached by a police officer and asked to present his identification.
When the officer discovered from the ID that he was a Christian, he started searching his bag.
Read more at: http://blog.godreports.com/2018/06/egypt-christian-arrested-for-carrying-water-bottle-during-ramadan/ (http://blog.godreports.com/2018/06/egypt-christian-arrested-for-carrying-water-bottle-during-ramadan/)
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@roamer_1
Kinda like the "stoned to death for firewood on the Sabbath" thing from Numbers 15:32-, eh?
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@roamer_1
Kinda like the "stoned to death for firewood on the Sabbath" thing from Numbers 15:32-, eh?
@Suppressed
No, more like a Christian being forced by a secular government to bake a cake for a homo wedding, or face destitution.
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@Suppressed
No, more like a Christian being forced by a secular government to bake a cake for a homo wedding, or face destitution.
Absolutely incomparable.
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@roamer_1
Kinda like the "stoned to death for firewood on the Sabbath" thing from Numbers 15:32-, eh?
@Suppressed
You do know that the Jews and Christians stop doing that a few years ago? Right?
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@Suppressed
You do know that the Jews and Christians stop doing that a few years ago? Right?
@240B
Yes, but it remains in holy scripture.
So I guess what you're saying is that we can't judge a religion by their holy scripture.
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Absolutely incomparable.
Absolutely the same thing - The coercive nature of government is not restricted to religion.
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The Christians stopped doing it 2,0000 years ago and the Jews didn't force non-Jews to follow their laws.
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Absolutely the same thing - The coercive nature of government is not restricted to religion.
Absolutely not. The one is a regulation of business activity, the other of purely personal activity.
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Absolutely not. The one is a regulation of business activity, the other of purely personal activity.
No different at all - My business is an extension of me, on my private property.
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No different at all - My business is an extension of me, on my private property.
Totally different. A business is not a mere extension of the owner’s personal life and may be regulated in ways that the owner’s personal life cannot.
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Totally different. A business is not a mere extension of the owner’s personal life and may be regulated in ways that the owner’s personal life cannot.
Right- Because government coercion.
When the same is used as precedence to keep you from kicking the privileged out of your home, don't come crying to me.
Point in fact: Governmental coercion is no different than religious coercion.
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I don't agree, of course. About the arrest.
But, I understand it.
Fasting during Ramadan is not easy for all Muslims. Especially, being forbidden to even drink water.
Not that it was a deliberate snub or insult, but any Muslim would be upset to see somebody swigging cold spring water in the desert heat.
...and a Christian, to boot??
Don't mess with Muslims during Ramadan. Period.
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Right- Because government coercion.
When the same is used as precedence to keep you from kicking the privileged out of your home, don't come crying to me.
Point in fact: Governmental coercion is no different than religious coercion.
You can yammer about it all you want, but the fact remains that commercial activity is different from purely personal activity. Always has been and always will be. I realize you hate this because it means that businesses can be prevented from discriminating against gays, but that’s too bad.
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I don't agree, of course. About the arrest.
But, I understand it.
Fasting during Ramadan is not easy for all Muslims. Especially, being forbidden to even drink water.
Not that it was a deliberate snub or insult, but any Muslim would be upset to see somebody swigging cold spring water in the desert heat.
...and a Christian, to boot??
Don't mess with Muslims during Ramadan. Period.
Yeah they've been known to kill for far less.
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I realize you hate this because it means that businesses can be prevented from discriminating against gays, but that’s too bad.
Nice strawman. Where did you get it?
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You can yammer about it all you want, but the fact remains that commercial activity is different from purely personal activity. Always has been and always will be. I realize you hate this because it means that businesses can be prevented from discriminating against gays, but that’s too bad.
No, I hate it because I should be able to discriminate any damn way I want to, not just homos. It is my business on my property, intrinsically and directly tied to my pursuit of happiness.
That you agree that I should be coerced into service is merely a matter of whose ox. They will come for yours next. That's how it works.
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No, I hate it because I should be able to discriminate any damn way I want to, not just homos. It is my business on my property, intrinsically and directly tied to my pursuit of happiness.
That you agree that I should be coerced into service is merely a matter of whose ox. They will come for yours next. That's how it works.
Tough. If you don’t like it, then don’t carry on a commercial activity that puts you to the test.
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Tough. If you don’t like it, then don’t carry on a commercial activity that puts you to the test.
Nah. I will carry on as I always do. Sue me all you want - You can't get blood out of a turnip.
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Tough. If you don’t like it, then don’t carry on a commercial activity that puts you to the test.
Like carrying a water bottle.
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Like carrying a water bottle.
Not a commercial activity.
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Not a commercial activity.
Unless you're selling water.
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@240B
Yes, but it remains in holy scripture.
So I guess what you're saying is that we can't judge a religion by their holy scripture.
@Suppressed
Believe it or not, you really can't. A religion is defined more by doctrine and practice than strictly by scripture. For example the Torah also says that an unruly child should be killed. But any Rabbi or religious scholar will tell you that there no documented case of that ever happening.
Scripture has a lot of purposes. And one of them is teaching by parable. The eye of a needle and such like that.
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@Suppressed
Believe it or not, you really can't. A religion is defined more by doctrine and practice than strictly by scripture. For example the Torah also says that an unruly child should be killed. But any Rabbi or religious scholar will tell you that there no documented case of that ever happening.
Scripture has a lot of purposes. And one of them is teaching by parable. The eye of a needle and such like that.
Thank you, @240B
There are many who claim all Muslims must be horrid because of what is written. But as you say, that doesn't mean all adhere to what's written.
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Unless you're selling water.
Duh.
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Thank you, @240B
There are many who claim all Muslims must be horrid because of what is written. But as you say, that doesn't mean all adhere to what's written.
@Suppressed
It isn't a lack of adherence - It is a lack of interpretation, or interpretation made in ignorance, as I tried to explain elsewhere.
The 'Unruly child' bit that @240B used as an example is very good:
It cannot be a child as we consider a child... In interaction with the rest of Torah, it must be an adult child (or thereabouts). And the parent does not have the right to kill the child. There must still be a trial, and a conviction...
and last of all, the throwing of the first stone... All in the context of 'mercy' and 'doing right', and 'loving each other', as also commanded.
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@240B
Yes, but it remains in holy scripture.
So I guess what you're saying is that we can't judge a religion by their holy scripture.
Well, you certainly can't if you don't study it and understand it and use it as a weapon on a political forum where it doesn't apply.
Which is, of course, what you are doing here. **nononono*
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@Suppressed
It isn't a lack of adherence - It is a lack of interpretation, or interpretation made in ignorance, as I tried to explain elsewhere.
The 'Unruly child' bit that @240B used as an example is very good:
It cannot be a child as we consider a child... In interaction with the rest of Torah, it must be an adult child (or thereabouts). And the parent does not have the right to kill the child. There must still be a trial, and a conviction...
and last of all, the throwing of the first stone... All in the context of 'mercy' and 'doing right', and 'loving each other', as also commanded.
This my last post on this because it is becoming a Biblical discussion and I don't want that. But speaking of interpretation, the Eye for an Eye quote that everyone like to point to is one of the most misunderstood passages in the OT. It did not mean revenge is required as many seem to think it does. Most Rabbis that I know say that it is about 'equal and just punishment'.
If someone knocks out one of your teeth, you are not allowed to kill him or his family, for example. The most you can do under scripture is to knock out one of his teeth, and that is it. No more than than that. And you are not required to do even that. You could forgive him and do nothing. But if you do demand revenge, the most you can do is to take one eye or one tooth.
I'm done. That's all I'm going to post before the thread gets locked.
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This my last post on this because it is becoming a Biblical discussion and I don't want that. But speaking of interpretation, the Eye for an Eye quote that everyone like to point to is one of the most misunderstood passages in the OT. It did not mean revenge is required as many seem to think it does. Most Rabbis that I know say that it is about 'equal and just punishment'.
If someone knocks out one of your teeth, you are not allowed to kill him or his family, for example. The most you can do under scripture is to knock out one of his teeth, and that is it. No more than than that. And you are not required to do even that. You could forgive him and do nothing. But if you do demand revenge, the most you can do is to take one eye or one tooth.
I'm done. That's all I'm going to post before the thread gets locked.
We are in great agreement on that @240B ... And to get that vengeance, one must take the matter to the elders at the gate... Where cooler heads can prevail. I do not see a direct right to do harm anywhere in Torah, except in defense or in defense of others.
And you are right. My last intention to post too...
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islam. (you'll notice I never capitalize it out of utter disrespect).
All it -- and those who adhere to it -- deserves is this:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/DF555/RP%20Legionnaire%20Stuff/Empire-Crusader.jpg)