I’ve been mulling this over. I think NeverTrumpers object to Trump’s honesty. He says exactly what’s on his mind. He rarely demurs except on matters of national security strategy or politics.
Take his recent interview with the New York Times reporter. Walks into the interview in the Grill Room of his golf club in West Palm Beach, alone, no staff, no press spokesmen, no policy advisers around him to clarify Trump’s answers. And no need for the reporter to guess where Trump stands on an issue; he doesn’t give focus tested responses. It’s Trump Raw.
He’s ineloquent and braggadocios, but that’s him: straightforward and honest. And for reasons I don’t quite understand, this bothers the people that prefer obfuscation, diplomacy and theater from their president — like an Obama.
That's funny. I say exactly what's on my mind (within the limits of forum rules most of the time ), and am straightforward and honest and for reasons I don't quite understand this bothers the people that like Trump for those same qualities.
If you were orange, lost 90% of your moral character, and flip-flopped ideologically most of your life.......then they might cut you some slack
Maybe add some cognitive thinking to the mix? :pondering:
Maybe adding some cognitive thinking to the mix would help?? :pondering:
Speaking of "wow" ... I really hit a nerve.
Happy new year, dear. :laugh:
You can come sit next to me with the rest of us stupid people @RoosGirl.
For TBR's NTs .... you're not alone! :smokin:
Speaking of "wow" ... I really hit a nerve.
And I would feel right at home @bigheadfred ! :laugh:
For the record, for all the bitching you people do about being 'tired of' the same old NT arguments - it's shit like this and your snark-in-the-face and constant flick-our-noses because we do not worship and genuflect at the altar of Trump, that keeps this permanent rivalry stoked for nastiness.
The NT issue keeps coming up with bitter thread arguments because you people insist on regurgitating it, as if these silly and insipid efforts to shame those who do not seig-heil your political savior is somehow going to change any minds.
All you continue to do, is widen the gulf to the point that I cannot discern the difference in threat to liberty with groupthink between you or the Left.
"I agree with every one of the policy decisions mentioned above. But I still wish Hillary Clinton were president."
He must be joking. Only he is not...
Here is further proof - as though any more were needed - that although we may one day cure cancer, there's no cure for stupid.
Donald Trump still annoys me. I wish he would stop his occasional fits of juvenile and boorish behavior.
But I thank God each and every day that he and not the serial liar, grifter and racial leftist Hillary Clinton was elected President.
I think it might be a nice time to point out this article is about LEFTIST "Never Trumpers," and any random shots being taken at any of the Never Trump folks here are conflating the two in order to cast some Briefers in a very negative light, possibly deliberately. IOW, just another stating of the old argument "If you aren't 100% for Donald Trump, you are actually for Hillary Clinton."
This was debunked last year, but it still comes up.
For the record, for all the bitching you people do about being 'tired of' the same old NT arguments - it's shit like this and your snark-in-the-face and constant flick-our-noses because we do not worship and genuflect at the altar of Trump, that keeps this permanent rivalry stoked for nastiness.
The NT issue keeps coming up with bitter thread arguments because you people insist on regurgitating it, as if these silly and insipid efforts to shame those who do not seig-heil your political savior is somehow going to change any minds.
All you continue to do, is widen the gulf to the point that I cannot discern the difference in threat to liberty with groupthink between you or the Left.
I think it might be a nice time to point out this article is about LEFTIST "Never Trumpers," and any random shots being taken at any of the Never Trump folks here are conflating the two in order to cast some Briefers in a very negative light, possibly deliberately.
Geez, passive aggressive much?
For the record, for all the bitching you people do about being 'tired of' the same old NT arguments - it's shit like this and your snark-in-the-face and constant flick-our-noses because we do not worship and genuflect at the altar of Trump, that keeps this permanent rivalry stoked for nastiness.
The NT issue keeps coming up with bitter thread arguments because you people insist on regurgitating it, as if these silly and insipid efforts to shame those who do not seig-heil your political savior is somehow going to change any minds.
All you continue to do, is widen the gulf to the point that I cannot discern the difference in threat to liberty with groupthink between you or the Left.
I think it might be a nice time to point out this article is about LEFTIST "Never Trumpers," and any random shots being taken at any of the Never Trump folks here are conflating the two in order to cast some Briefers in a very negative light, possibly deliberately. IOW, just another stating of the old argument "If you aren't 100% for Donald Trump, you are actually for Hillary Clinton."
This was debunked last year, but it still comes up.
The distinction is lost on most Orange Brigadiers.
Maybe for 2018 the refrain should be more like: "If you aren't 100% for Donald Trump, you aren't really an American?"
(More strongly stated? "If you aren't 100% for Donald Trump, you aren't really a human being?")
Does that work for you?
I think that Trump should consider mandatory skin dying for all adults: a warm orange tone.
(It would help to identify riders of the Trump Train in public places. Good idea, or not?)
"I agree with every one of the policy decisions mentioned above. But I still wish Hillary Clinton were president."
He must be joking. Only he is not...
Here is further proof - as though any more were needed - that although we may one day cure cancer, there's no cure for stupid.
Donald Trump still annoys me. I wish he would stop his occasional fits of juvenile and boorish behavior.
But I thank God each and every day that he and not the serial liar, grifter and racial leftist Hillary Clinton was elected President.
I think that worship and genuflecting should be mandatory when anyone verbalizes the name Trump!
Maybe we adopt something like: "Trump (praise his holy name and bow thine head) has said recently that..."
I don't believe in vilifying Trump at every turn (including unnecessary "orange" references), nor do I accept worshipping him as the greatest thing ever to get to the White House. My gosh, is it that difficult to be rational and objective about this presidency?
No. You're either with him or against him. It's binary. *****rollingeyes*****
No. You're either with him or against him. It's binary. *****rollingeyes*****
This isn’t an election. It’s about rallying support to get a conservative agenda passed—which Trump has been pursuing with some measurable success. It’s about slashing federal regulations and bureaucracy, again which President Trump has shown he’s aggressively pursuing.
It’s about improving government away from the status quo in which only the president—with precious little help from republicans and no help from the democrats—is in a position to affect at this moment in time.
Why anyone from our side would be joining the Left in vilifying Trump is beyond me. Trump IS the army we have, not the army you all pine for. Are you in this battle to win or to prove how right you are about Donald Trump?
All y'all need to get a(http://gaia.adage.com/images/bin/image/x-large/ScreenShot20171025at2.17.39PM.jpg)
Hey can we sell those on zazzle?...
Why anyone from our side would be joining the Left in vilifying Trump is beyond me. Trump IS the army we have, not the army you all pine for. Are you in this battle to win or to prove how right you are about Donald Trump?
This isn’t an election. It’s about rallying support to get a conservative agenda passed—which Trump has been pursuing with some measurable success. It’s about slashing federal regulations and bureaucracy, again which President Trump has shown he’s aggressively pursuing.
It’s about improving government away from the status quo in which only the president—with precious little help from republicans and no help from the democrats—is in a position to affect at this moment in time.
Why anyone from our side would be joining the Left in vilifying Trump is beyond me. Trump IS the army we have, not the army you all pine for. Are you in this battle to win or to prove how right you are about Donald Trump?
I'm sure the company already sells them there; if not, they'd be a little ticked off if we started trying to compete with them by selling their own merchandise.
I’ve been mulling this over. I think NeverTrumpers object to Trump’s honesty.
He’s ineloquent and braggadocios, but that’s him: straightforward and honest. And for reasons I don’t quite understand, this bothers the people that prefer obfuscation, diplomacy and theater from their president — like an Obama.
I don't believe in vilifying Trump at every turn (including unnecessary "orange" references), nor do I accept worshipping him as the greatest thing ever to get to the White House. My gosh, is it that difficult to be rational and objective about this presidency?
Apparently it is, Mountaineer.
Bullshit. Posting articles like this is about one thing that has nothing to do with any of the things you listed above. It's another attempt to put a wedge between members. I don't really understand a possible end goal in that other than causing chaos here and trying to put an end to the forum. You know how I know what you wrote above is bullshit? Because stating an opinion here in this forum has absolutely no bearing on whether Trump can forward an agenda or not. Are y'all so fragile that your decision to support a particular man must be validated with every comment here? It sure comes across that way. Let me try to help you a little; good job picking the winner out of what you claim was a 50/50 contest. Good job.
Bullshit. Posting articles like this is about one thing that has nothing to do with any of the things you listed above. It's another attempt to put a wedge between members. I don't really understand a possible end goal in that other than causing chaos here and trying to put an end to the forum. You know how I know what you wrote above is bullshit? Because stating an opinion here in this forum has absolutely no bearing on whether Trump can forward an agenda or not. Are y'all so fragile that your decision to support a particular man must be validated with every comment here? It sure comes across that way. Let me try to help you a little; good job picking the winner out of what you claim was a 50/50 contest. Good job.
corruption and heavy-handed govt ... carefully manicured public image
a beauty pageant with a President that has a glittering, shiny image even if there may be nothinggoodbehind it.
When it comes to choosing leadership, for too many it's the inner catty jr. high cheerleader that rules the day.
Your opinion means nothing to me. You’ve been wrong about Trump at every turn. Sorry, regarding Trump, you’re a loser.
LOL! The very same can be said of Trump.
Trump sommore. What's the difference?
EXACTLY the argument against Trump and his supporters.
I was no Trump fan, but once he became President, I figured I had one of two choices - either nitpick him to death over his failings, or hope he did a good job as Prez.
So far I've had few disappointments. Still not a fan of the tweeting, but he's been doing the right things, warts and all.
Meh... Much ado about hardly nothing. Mostly things that won't actually be enacted in his administration (Paris accord, Jerusalem), or (like EOs). easily reversed within the next administration...
This is starting to feel a whole lot like Dubya's first term.
What’s your excuse why you’re still NeverTrump?
He's used the tools he's got, but we have a separate-but-equal govt. He can't get much done if McConnell or Ryan choose to drag their feet.
Ooooh, three-pointer, @RoosGirl!
For the record, for all the bitching you people do about being 'tired of' the same old NT arguments - it's shit like this and your snark-in-the-face and constant flick-our-noses because we do not worship and genuflect at the altar of Trump, that keeps this permanent rivalry stoked for nastiness.
The NT issue keeps coming up with bitter thread arguments because you people insist on regurgitating it, as if these silly and insipid efforts to shame those who do not seig-heil your political savior is somehow going to change any minds.
All you continue to do, is widen the gulf to the point that I cannot discern the difference in threat to liberty with groupthink between you or the Left.
I think it might be a nice time to point out this article is about LEFTIST "Never Trumpers," and any random shots being taken at any of the Never Trump folks here are conflating the two in order to cast some Briefers in a very negative light, possibly deliberately. IOW, just another stating of the old argument "If you aren't 100% for Donald Trump, you are actually for Hillary Clinton."
This was debunked last year, but it still comes up.
So I guess the Art of the Dealmaker from Olympus has not delivered upon his acolytes' promise that his power to negotiate and make deals are divine and supernatural.
False prophets abound if His MAGAnificence cannot make deals with the leaders of his own party that he took over in a quasi-coup.
He's used the tools he's got, but we have a separate-but-equal govt. He can't get much done if McConnell or Ryan choose to drag their feet.
Your opinion means nothing to me. You’ve been wrong about Trump at every turn. Sorry, regarding Trump, you’re a loser.
No, he MADE the chaotic mess in DC. He bloody well pissed off everyone he would need to move anything big through legislation. I don't think much at all about McTurtle and Ryan - Trump, the 'great negotiator' made his bed. He should get the credit when he has to lie in it.
McConnell and Ryan got a job to do. They may not like Trump, but they need to suck it up, put their feeling and egos aside, and knock it off with the hurt feelings rap.
If a guy says he wants to deal, I don't care about his personality, I'm going to hold his feet to the fire.
That ain't gonna happen. Trump has made this a 'kiss the ring' thing, And I don't blame a damn one of them for telling him to GFY.
And Trump did that on purpose.
If the guy isn't trustworthy, lies all the time (even when it doesn't matter), I wouldn't deal with him either.
He set this up on purpose this way. The only solution is to kiss his ass, or not play... Guess where that goes.
Bullshit. Posting articles like this is about one thing that has nothing to do with any of the things you listed above. It's another attempt to put a wedge between members. I don't really understand a possible end goal in that other than causing chaos here and trying to put an end to the forum. You know how I know what you wrote above is bullshit? Because stating an opinion here in this forum has absolutely no bearing on whether Trump can forward an agenda or not. Are y'all so fragile that your decision to support a particular man must be validated with every comment here? It sure comes across that way. Let me try to help you a little; good job picking the winner out of what you claim was a 50/50 contest. Good job.
McConnell and Ryan are big boys that need to put on their big boy pants and do the job they were elected to do. Complaining that they can't come to the table because Trump is a meanie doesn't cut it. They need to buck up.
They sure didn't have a problem meeting with that douche Obama.
Geez, passive aggressive much?
I’ve been mulling this over. I think NeverTrumpers object to Trump’s honesty. He says exactly what’s on his mind. He rarely demurs except on matters of national security strategy or politics.
Take his recent interview with the New York Times reporter. Walks into the interview in the Grill Room of his golf club in West Palm Beach, alone, no staff, no press spokesmen, no policy advisers around him to clarify Trump’s answers. And no need for the reporter to guess where Trump stands on an issue; he doesn’t give focus tested responses. It’s Trump Raw.
He’s ineloquent and braggadocios, but that’s him: straightforward and honest. And for reasons I don’t quite understand, this bothers the people that prefer obfuscation, diplomacy and theater from their president — like an Obama.
I guess they prefer all of Hillary's corruption and heavy-handed govt to hide behind her carefully manicured public image, than someone rough around the edges who turns out has made some good policy decisions so far.
But, there all always those who want a beauty pageant with a President that has a glittering, shiny image even if there may be nothing good behind it. When it comes to choosing leadership, for too many it's the inner catty jr. high cheerleader that rules the day.
This isn’t an election. It’s about rallying support to get a conservative agenda passed—which Trump has been pursuing with some measurable success. It’s about slashing federal regulations and bureaucracy, again which President Trump has shown he’s aggressively pursuing.
It’s about improving government away from the status quo in which only the president—with precious little help from republicans and no help from the democrats—is in a position to affect at this moment in time.
Why anyone from our side would be joining the Left in vilifying Trump is beyond me. Trump IS the army we have, not the army you all pine for. Are you in this battle to win or to prove how right you are about Donald Trump?
@Free Vulcan
Personally, at this point, I don’t think Trump is nearly as bad as some of his supporters. My God, I thought the Sarah Palin nuts were insufferable.
I'm part of the Stealers Wheel contingent. Trump is what we got, and we may not like some of the circus that surrounds him, or his rough awkwardness at times, but he's there for 4 years.
But unlike Obama, there is a decent chance that if Congress will step up to the plate, we might get some good things done.
If Trump goes liberal, then I'm going to run away on fire.
So far, so good, and we'll see what happens tommorow.
@Free Vulcan
I don’t know what the Stealer’s Wheel contingent is, but yes, it’s true that some good things have come out of this administration. I’ll give Trump credit when due and I’ll bust him when he deserves it.
The busting is what some have a problem with. They won’t settle for anything less than unconditional accolades. Like I said, the Palin lovers were nothing compared to hardcore Trump fans.
That is the thing. They make it way too personal. And they get that attitude from HIM-the way he acts. I am MORE critical of other politicians. To some people any criticism of trump and they treat you like you are the dingo that just ate their baby.
@bigheadfred
I’ll be honest, I have wondered if one or two here are related in some way to Trump or to Melania.
It’s like a part time job, working as hard as possible to “sell†him to everybody else. It’s...well, it’s devotion.
Maybe they should try to sell vacuum cleaners instead. Maybe it is also devolution. They've turned into lemmings. They are devoted to their cause.
(https://i.imgur.com/ISninWB.jpg)
@bigheadfred
Well, I'll be swimming backward against that current, because I never saw a politician worth all of the breathless love and outrage.
Come on *takes Fred's hand*.
@Free Vulcan
Personally, at this point, I don’t think Trump is nearly as bad as some of his supporters. My God, I thought the Sarah Palin nuts were insufferable.
This is why the left is still NeverTrump:
“Nearly a year into his takeover of Washington, President Trump has made a significant down payment on his campaign pledge to shrink the federal bureaucracy, a shift long sought by conservatives that could eventually bring the workforce down to levels not seen in decades.
By the end of September, all Cabinet departments except Homeland Security, Veterans Affairs and Interior had fewer permanent staff than when Trump took office in January — with most shedding many hundreds of employees, according to an analysis of federal personnel data by The Washington Post.â€
Read more:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-trump-era-is-changing-the-federal-bureaucracy/2017/12/30/8d5149c6-daa7-11e7-b859-fb0995360725_story.html?utm_term=.ca0079883888 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-trump-era-is-changing-the-federal-bureaucracy/2017/12/30/8d5149c6-daa7-11e7-b859-fb0995360725_story.html?utm_term=.ca0079883888)
What’s your excuse why you’re still NeverTrump?
For those suggesting we don't like blunt truth, and this is why the NeverTrumpers still exist, I think that is hilarious.
I am not NT, but just a few weeks ago, he came out and said he.d accomplished more in his first year than any other President, breaking Truman's record.
This is a lie, and it is researchable.
Maybe he did more than Truman, but from Kennedy to Obama, he came in dead last.
Blunt truth? Try telling it, on occasion.
And, of course, the MSM should be held to this standard as well.
It just everybody lyin' to everybody else, now.
I really don't trust any of them now.
What I wonder is, why do AT's not mind that he tells lies all the time??
How can you idolize anyone who is so deeply dishonest?
I don't get it. :shrug:
If they admit it, it comes with the "God uses imperfect men" canard as a qualifier.
George Washington was an imperfect man, Trump is somewhat less. Anyone who has ever read Washington's Rules of Civility would know that George Washington would have had little use for a vulgar and petty man like Trump.
I can think of no greater contrast between two human beings than between the noble, honorable George Washington, and the vulgar, dishonest Donald Trump.
No matter what he does that I might 'like' it is still a disgrace that he was elected to the highest office in this land.
Character counts.
The behavior of Trump and the behavior of those who have chosen to act just like him are going to cost us dearly.
As my tagline says............. character ALWAYS matters.
Every time I start to liking what Trump is doing, somebody comes along crowing about it so much, trying to get me to worship the man and rubbing my nose in something, and I find myself distrusting him again. It's weird. It's like they don't want me on their side at all. It's ironic because I've never taken a "side" concerning Donald Trump.
I think I like the way @INVAR puts it. Even though we all agree on the issues at hand, he's been declared an enemy and is treated as such.
I see Former Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke was banned from twitter yesterday for warning the media that "You will taste your own blood soon"
I see Former Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke was banned from twitter yesterday for warning the media that "You will taste your own blood soon"
I used to like that guy. What happened to him? :shrug:
@Cripplecreek
That guy needs to be on meds.
(https://i.imgur.com/z9SBF0W.jpg)
He "snapped." It's a term used to describe what happens to Moonies. Has something to do with that picture of a hard-backed chair I posted the other day.
He's one of the fame junkies and he's growing rabid in his desperation for a fix.
For those suggesting we don't like blunt truth, and this is why the NeverTrumpers still exist, I think that is hilarious.
I am not NT, but just a few weeks ago, he came out and said he.d accomplished more in his first year than any other President, breaking Truman's record.
This is a lie, and it is researchable.
Maybe he did more than Truman, but from Kennedy to Obama, he came in dead last.
Blunt truth? Try telling it, on occasion.
And, of course, the MSM should be held to this standard as well.
It just everybody lyin' to everybody else, now.
I really don't trust any of them now.
All Truman did in his first year was end WWII. I don’t think Trump matched that, although ISIS was mostly defeated.
I wouldn't get too excited about the defeat of ISIS. More likely they're following the same path as Al Qeada and dispersing only to refom as something else in coming months.My apologies if I left that impression. Comparing ISIS to the Japanese military of WWII is like comparing an elementary school squad to an NFL team, even the Cleveland Browns.
Every time I start to liking what Trump is doing, somebody comes along crowing about it so much, trying to get me to worship the man and rubbing my nose in something, and I find myself distrusting him again. It's weird. It's like they don't want me on their side at all. It's ironic because I've never taken a "side" concerning Donald Trump.
I think I like the way @INVAR puts it. Even though we all agree on the issues at hand, he's been declared an enemy and is treated as such.