The Briefing Room
General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: rangerrebew on December 11, 2017, 11:12:40 am
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Dec 11, 12:47 AM EST
Will misconduct scandals make men wary of women at work?
By JENNIFER PELTZ
Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) -- Some women, and men, worry the same climate that's emboldening women to speak up about sexual misconduct could backfire by making some men wary of female colleagues.
Forget private meetings and get-to-know-you dinners. Beware of banter. Think twice before a high-ranking man mentors a young female staffer.
"I have already heard the rumblings of a backlash: 'This is why you shouldn't hire women,'" Facebook chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg wrote in a recent post .
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/APFN_US_SEXUAL_MISCONDUCT_FEAR_OF_BACKLASH_ILOL-?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/APFN_US_SEXUAL_MISCONDUCT_FEAR_OF_BACKLASH_ILOL-?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
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When your livelihood is one complaint from doom, no evidence required and no appeal, it does make one very hesitant to take the risk.
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Without a clear definition of "misconduct", women's responsibilities as well as men's and a statute of limitations on reporting the misconduct, the short answer is "yes".
And then women will sue under discrimination.
This mess will only get worse before it gets better.
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Gee, put people in situations where they're screwed either way. What could possibly go wrong?!
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I was accused of assaulting a female co-worker this fall.
She was fired by the 2 females who own the company.
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The downside of the #MeToo movement starting to dawn on women
American Thinker, Dec 11, 2017, Thomas Lifson
The rules of interaction between women and men in the workplace have been changed with a suddenness that inevitably produces unforeseen negative consequences, no matter how positive and necessary the switch might be. The Associated Press this morning runs a feature article whose title asks a question that answers itself: “Will misconduct scandals make men wary of women at work?â€
Duh! The careers of men are being destroyed on the basis of accusations alone, so of course we worry. While there is no ambiguity over Weinstein-like criminal behavior, there is a spectrum of behavior that women potentially can find objectionable, and at the other of the scale from Weinstein there is a lot of potential for career-ending misunderstanding. For all we know, a greeting like, “Good morning! That’s a lovely outfit†could be the basis of a complaint to HR. The AP’s Jennifer Peltz appreciates this in her article:
More: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/the_downside_of_the_metoo_movement_starting_to_dawn_on_women.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/the_downside_of_the_metoo_movement_starting_to_dawn_on_women.html)
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It’s in our nature to take the path of least resistance and to void anything that would cause harm or grief to us
I read a while back about police in urban areas are no longer taking an active role in policing. I can see the same phenomenon eventually happening in business, male female interaction etc. etc.
A man will figure out eventually that he doesn’t need to compliment women but he needs to keep his job. When and if that day comes women will wonder what the hell is wrong with men these days
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I've been on the receiving end of a false complaint over 20 years ago while working at a shipping company. One of the other supervisors was aggressively trying to get me to dump my girlfriend and date her. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, she filed a sexual harassment claim. No kidding.
Luckily, the facility manager knew what was going on. He had seen her pursuing me relentlessly.
BUT...
Because the complaint was filed, I still had to endure eight hours of sexual harassment training, "as a matter of procedure." Everyone knew it was BS, but I still suffered. Moreover, it was in my employee file, so it could have later been used to establish a "pattern of behavior."
Such bullcrap.
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I've been on the receiving end of a false complaint over 20 years ago while working at a shipping company. One of the other supervisors was aggressively trying to get me to dump my girlfriend and date her. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, she filed a sexual harassment claim. No kidding.
Luckily, the facility manager knew what was going on. He had seen her pursuing me relentlessly.
BUT...
Because the complaint was filed, I still had to endure eight hours of sexual harassment training, "as a matter of procedure." Everyone knew it was BS, but I still suffered. Moreover, it was in my employee file, so it could have later been used to establish a "pattern of behavior."
Such bullcrap.
Don't hire women, problem solved.
(Yes, I'm joking, but the thought is going to enter some hiring managers' minds)
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. . . BUT...
Because the complaint was filed, I still had to endure eight hours of sexual harassment training, "as a matter of procedure." Everyone knew it was BS, but I still suffered. Moreover, it was in my employee file, so it could have later been used to establish a "pattern of behavior." Such bullcrap.
Just curious @bolobaby did the woman also have to endure sexual harassment training?
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Just curious @bolobaby did the woman also have to endure sexual harassment training?
Ha - no, of course not.
One thing I've discovered in corporate America: the first to complain is ALWAYS the aggrieved party, regardless of facts. Want bonus points? If you are a woman, CRY and the guy will automatically lose the argument.
Sad, but true.
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I've been on the receiving end of a false complaint over 20 years ago while working at a shipping company. One of the other supervisors was aggressively trying to get me to dump my girlfriend and date her. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, she filed a sexual harassment claim. No kidding.
Luckily, the facility manager knew what was going on. He had seen her pursuing me relentlessly.
BUT...
Because the complaint was filed, I still had to endure eight hours of sexual harassment training, "as a matter of procedure." Everyone knew it was BS, but I still suffered. Moreover, it was in my employee file, so it could have later been used to establish a "pattern of behavior."
Such bullcrap.
Been there myself. women get away with the foulest behavior and everyones afraid to make an issue of it,
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Been there myself. women get away with the foulest behavior and everyones afraid to make an issue of it,
A woman I worked with at a major cable company had male swimsuit model wallpaper on her computer. No one ever said a word to her about removing it, although all the guys privately said, "Oh, crap - could you imagine if I had women in swimsuits as wallpaper? End of the world!"
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Yes, women are bad, they shouldn't be hired, and every one of them will ensnare you with their feminine wiles, given the chance.
Sheesh! *****rollingeyes*****
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Yes, women are bad, they shouldn't be hired, and every one of them will ensnare you with their feminine wiles, given the chance.
Sheesh! *****rollingeyes*****
Hmmm... I'm having trouble finding that sentiment in the source material or in the comments...
Typical female overreaction, I guess! ;-)
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Yes, women are bad, they shouldn't be hired, and every one of them will ensnare you with their feminine wiles, given the chance.
Sheesh! *****rollingeyes*****
@Sanguine
Yes, yes they are. Bout time you admitted it.
/s
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I remember during my corporate years, when smart guys and gals would not risk their professional careers, playing romance games on the job.
After I left, I learned my boss and my subordinate had been having afair. They kept it private until both had left the company.
A few years later they married, and remained so until he died a couple of year ago. Two CPAs and corporate finance officers btw.
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Fortunately for me they laid off all the women I worked with. Unfortunately, they laid everybody else off too, leaving me alone and carrying all the work. Can't win. :shrug:
Merry Christmas to me! :tree3:
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Hmmm... I'm having trouble finding that sentiment in the source material or in the comments...
Typical female overreaction, I guess! ;-)
Typical male avoidance of issues... 22222frying pan
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I remember during my corporate years, when smart guys and gals would not risk their professional careers, playing romance games on the job.
After I left, I learned my boss and my subordinate had been having afair. They kept it private until both had left the company.
A few years later they married, and remained so until he died a couple of year ago. Two CPAs and corporate finance officers btw.
That's the truth of it. 888high58888
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@Sanguine
Yes, yes they are. Bout time you admitted it.
/s
****slapping
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Typical male avoidance of issues... 22222frying pan
Issues? What issues? :laugh:
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****slapping
@Sanguine
:tongue2: :silly: :silly:
Of course not all women are that bad, most aren't. Enough are to cause significant problems in the workplace though. Those that are bad force companies to manage to the lowest common denominator. They also hurt the good women because men end up defensive out of self preservation.
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22222frying pan
****slapping
We need to have a talk about your violent tendencies. :whistle:
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We need to have a talk about your violent tendencies. :whistle:
She is violent. but thats acceptable for women to joke about hitting men. If a man joked about hitting women then it would be a crime.
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That's the truth of it. 888high58888
No, no it's not @Sanguine Not "playing romance games" on the job is a bit player in the harassment games.
In today's workplace it's not just pursuing romance that's verboten, it's anything that makes a female "uncomfortable". And this is ever changing and includes jokes (even ones overheard), photos on display (imagine that during WWII), glances, tone of voice, any touch, any form of "creepiness", being left out of a meeting, being included in a meeting.
Today's workplace is a madhouse. And this #metoo :bs: --- with no statute of limitations and no personal responsibilities --- has made it worse.
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She is violent. but thats acceptable for women to joke about hitting men. If a man joked about hitting women then it would be a crime.
Yeah, that's me all right. *****rollingeyes*****
@driftdiver, it's an emoticon! But I will freely admit, statements like the one I'm quoting here do make me feel quite violent.
And, the slapping emoticon is obviously for situations where men have gotten fresh and women, not wanting to appear to be victims and desiring to put an end to the manhandling immediately, slap the offender, as I've seen recommended here in those unfortunate situations.
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If the women were really smart they'd be using their feminine wiles to get the men to do their work for them and look for a man to have a relationship with who isn't such a sucker elsewhere. :tongue2:
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No, no it's not @Sanguine Not "playing romance games" on the job is a bit player in the harassment games.
In today's workplace it's not just pursuing romance that's verboten, it's anything that makes a female "uncomfortable". And this is ever changing and includes jokes (even ones overheard), photos on display (imagine that during WWII), glances, tone of voice, any touch, any form of "creepiness", being left out of a meeting, being included in a meeting.
Today's workplace is a madhouse. And this #metoo :bs: --- with no statute of limitations and no personal responsibilities --- has made it worse.
I didn't make the statement, go after the original comment. Or, even better, don't.
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I remember during my corporate years, when smart guys and gals would not risk their professional careers, playing romance games on the job.
After I left, I learned my boss and my subordinate had been having afair. They kept it private until both had left the company.
A few years later they married, and remained so until he died a couple of year ago. Two CPAs and corporate finance officers btw.
At a company I used to work for, they ran a report that would try to match up addresses of employees who weren't married.
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I didn't make the statement, go after the original comment. Or, even better, don't.
I responded to your agreeing with it @Sanguine You bolded it and posted: "That's the truth of it"
Do you even know what you're posting?
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Yeah, that's me all right. *****rollingeyes*****
@driftdiver, it's an emoticon! But I will freely admit, statements like the one I'm quoting here do make me feel quite violent.
And, the slapping emoticon is obviously for situations where men have gotten fresh and women, not wanting to appear to be victims and desiring to put an end to the manhandling immediately, slap the offender, as I've seen recommended here in those unfortunate situations.
I wish we could get back to slapping the offending party. It would be better for both than dragging HR into it, really.
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No, no it's not @Sanguine Not "playing romance games" on the job is a bit player in the harassment games.
In today's workplace it's not just pursuing romance that's verboten, it's anything that makes a female "uncomfortable". And this is ever changing and includes jokes (even ones overheard), photos on display (imagine that during WWII), glances, tone of voice, any touch, any form of "creepiness", being left out of a meeting, being included in a meeting.
Today's workplace is a madhouse. And this #metoo :bs: --- with no statute of limitations and no personal responsibilities --- has made it worse.
I have to agree with this, it's not about "workplace romance" any more. It's the list you mentioned, and it's been that way in corporate America for at least a quarter century. What's new is the tactic of avoidance is now being called "creating a hostile environment," so one can no long protect oneself by hiding anymore
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At a company I used to work for, they ran a report that would try to match up addresses of employees who weren't married.
Was that intended to identify those that were "living in sin?"
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Was that intended to identify those that were "living in sin?"
They're probably trying to identify potential hot-spots, but it seems rather intrusive to me, and could open the employer up to some negative legal reaction.
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I have to agree with this, it's not about "workplace romance" any more. It's the list you mentioned, and it's been that way in corporate America for at least a quarter century. What's new is the tactic of avoidance is now being called "creating a hostile environment," so one can no long protect oneself by hiding anymore
Nonsense. Just so much hyperventilating. If I worked at a place like the one described, I would have been outta there long ago. I mean really?
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Nonsense. Just so much hyperventilating. If I worked at a place like the one described, I would have been outta there long ago. I mean really?
It's really true. And, when you do what I do for a living, there aren't a lot of alternative workplaces. How many companies have R&D departments for making chips? A fab, where they manufacture the chips, runs in the hundreds of millions of dollars to operate. When they eventually get around to laying me off, it's time for a new career.
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It's really true. And, when you do what I do for a living, there aren't a lot of alternative workplaces. How many companies have R&D departments for making chips? A fab, where they manufacture the chips, runs in the hundreds of millions of dollars to operate. When they eventually get around to laying me off, it's time for a new career.
A "madhouse"?
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A "madhouse"?
No, I wouldn't call it a "madhouse," but it's definitely a place you have to keep your head down lest it be blown off. Unless you look like Brad Pitt or Fabio, then you never need to worry about being accused of harassment because everybody would want a taste of that. We were warned in the Harassment classes good-looking guys are pretty much exempt. Being from at least High School, I was pretty familiar with that concept.
Since I don't have that advantage, I have learned to be wary of any of my female (or gay) coworkers. Its not their fault, but it's a fact of life. I wish it wasn't so. I wish I was born good-looking instead of just rich...lol.
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No, I wouldn't call it a "madhouse," but it's definitely a place you have to keep your head down lest it be blown off. Unless you look like Brad Pitt or Fabio, then you never need to worry about being accused of harassment because everybody would want a taste of that. We were warned in the Harassment classes good-looking guys are pretty much exempt. Being from at least High School, I was pretty familiar with that concept.
Since I don't have that advantage, I have learned to be wary of any of my female (or gay) coworkers. Its not their fault, but it's a fact of life. I wish it wasn't so. I wish I was born good-looking instead of just rich...lol.
So that you could harrass without getting in trouble? :laugh:
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Nonsense. Just so much hyperventilating. If I worked at a place like the one described, I would have been outta there long ago. I mean really?
Yes, really.
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So that you could harrass without getting in trouble? :laugh:
Dammit! I wish I'd have thought of that. You and that @Frank Cannon are always one step ahead of me!
Surely I would have, given that license. They would all be at my feet. But it was not to be. I look like this.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/fc/eb/53fcebebdabe4b436179485b3c7d84f9.jpg)
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So that you could harrass without getting in trouble? :laugh:
It works for me.
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It works for me.
Pisses me off that all these years I failed to consider the harassment classes as I did the Drug Awareness classes back in Middle School. I considered those a "how-to" class so I would know how to deal with my dealers. "You call this a 'Lid'? Screw you! Get a GD scale! Wait...use mine...."
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Maybe companies should have HR departments staffed entirely with women. With none in any other departments.
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Pisses me off that all these years I failed to consider the harassment classes as I did the Drug Awareness classes back in Middle School. I considered those a "how-to" class so I would know how to deal with my dealers. "You call this a 'Lid'? Screw you! Get a GD scale! Wait...use mine...."
First rule of moderate street drug purchasing. Use your own scale....
(https://www.martjet.com/media/catalog/product/1/0/100g_metal_standard_hanging_postal_scale_black.jpg)
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Maybe companies should have HR departments staffed entirely with women. With none in any other departments.
That would suck. Especially after all their periods get in sync after a year or so.
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First rule of moderate street drug purchasing. Use your own scale....
(https://www.martjet.com/media/catalog/product/1/0/100g_metal_standard_hanging_postal_scale_black.jpg)
Duh. Didn't take me long to catch on about that. The term "pinching" also entered my lexicon about that time...
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That would suck. Especially after all their periods get in sync after a year or so.
comon. There would be so much infighting in HR everyone else could actually get some work done and NO ONE would ever want to involve HR. Period.
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comon. There would be so much infighting in HR everyone else could actually get some work done and NO ONE would ever want to involve HR. Period.
For about five days a month. Other than that it will be Hell to pay. Period. :rolling:
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For about five days a month. Other than that it will be Hell to pay. Period. :rolling:
As soon as all the HR women are at work, lock the damn doors and put up biohazard signs.
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As soon as all the HR women are at work, lock the damn doors and put up biohazard signs.
We already do that with HR. so no biggie. Those aren't human people.
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Dammit! I wish I'd have thought of that. You and that @Frank Cannon are always one step ahead of me!
Surely I would have, given that license. They would all be at my feet. But it was not to be. I look like this.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/fc/eb/53fcebebdabe4b436179485b3c7d84f9.jpg)
You've go more hair on top...