The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: SirLinksALot on January 29, 2017, 02:40:32 pm
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SOURCE: CNN
URL: http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/green-card-donald-trump-travel-ban/ (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/green-card-donald-trump-travel-ban/)
By Pamela Brown and Eli Watkins, CNN
The US government will not automatically allow green card holders who traveled to countries placed under a temporary travel ban back into the United States, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN.
Instead, those travelers will have to apply for a waiver to the executive order that instituted the ban, the sources said. When they land, they will be taken into a secondary screening process to determine their eligibility.
The countries targeted by Trump's executive order include the Muslim-majority nations of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan and Yemen.
Green card holders already overseas seeking to return to their homes in the US will be processed through a waiver authority that has already been established.
One official said there is a case-by-case admissions process and another said it is being done "expeditiously."
People from the seven countries who have green cards -- a government document granting permanent residence in the US -- should not leave the country because they may not be allowed back in the US, one source familiar with the matter said.
Trump's immigration ban sends shockwaves
There's been significant confusion over the precise terms of Trump's executive order since he signed it Friday afternoon, particularly over how it pertained to visa holders who are traveling and if any different treatment was afforded to green card holders.
Exemptions will be at the discretion of the Department of Homeland Security and the State Department, and criteria for exemptions include refugee status for religious minorities facing persecution, if denying admission would cause undue hardship or if not doing so would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the US.
Those traveling without a green card who landed in the United States after the order was signed would be detained and put back on a flight to their country of citizenship, an administration official told CNN.
Separately, Department of Homeland Security officials acknowledged people who were in the air would be detained upon arrival and put back on a plane to their home country. A couple dozen people were held overnight at US airports, an official familiar with the matter told CNN.
Two men who had been granted visas filed suit after being detained at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York, although neither was a green card holder and instead entering under visas tied to their involvement with the US military in Iraq.
The Iranian Foreign Ministry said on Saturday it would ban travelers from the United States in response to Trump's temporary ban.
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This has been a cluster F@#@ with personal stories of detainees hitting the news this Sunday morning, along with the airport protest. Not a well thought through executive order. Cell phones are being taken away, some people put in handcuffs. One a 76 lady with a green card, another a 21 year old girl a fiancee of a Microsoft employee, a 5 year old boy separated from his family. The stories are only get worse as will the backlash.
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This has been a cluster F@#@ with personal stories of detainees hitting the news this Sunday morning, along with the airport protest. Not a well thought through executive order. Cell phones are being taken away, some people put in handcuffs. One a 76 lady with a green card, another a 21 year old girl a fiancee of a Microsoft employee, a 5 year old boy separated from his family. The stories are only get worse as will the backlash.
This is why you don't let the idiots at Breitbart run things.
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This is why you don't let the idiots at Breitbart run things.
ABC just showed Trump saying and I quote, "it's working out nicely, it's working out very nicely, you can see it at the airports."
Good God. We have only started hearing the horror stories.
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ABC just showed Trump saying and I quote, "it's working out nicely, it's working out very nicely, you can see it at the airports."
Good God. We have only started hearing the horror stories.
One a 76 lady with a green card
It isn't any worse than the YEARS of having 76 year-old grandmothers from Peoria being manhandled by airport security for trying to cross the goddamned street.
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This has been a cluster F@#@ with personal stories of detainees hitting the news this Sunday morning, along with the airport protest. Not a well thought through executive order. Cell phones are being taken away, some people put in handcuffs. One a 76 lady with a green card, another a 21 year old girl a fiancee of a Microsoft employee, a 5 year old boy separated from his family. The stories are only get worse as will the backlash.
The screwed up implementation aside, let's look at the real INTENT of the executive order.
Here are some FACTS about “TRUMP’S MUSLIM BAN.”
1. It’s not a “BAN.” It’s a 120 day suspension in the processing of visas, intended to give the government time to put in place better vetting procedures.
2. It’s not directed at “MUSLIMS.” It is directed at all individuals, Muslim or non-Muslim, from 7 designated countries. Approximately 90% of the world’s Muslims are totally unaffected.
3. The countries were not put on a list BY TRUMP. In fact, these countries were designated by the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
That aside, the implementation has been screwed up. Good intentions should not be confused with end results.
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It should have never been put into effect immediately, with VISA holding travelers in the air impacted, not to mention the chaos it caused for our airlines and airports.And I'm sure we will be hearing soon from Microsoft, Boeing, Google, Amazon, the Auto industries and others on how this ban effected them with both employees and customers flying in from these countries.
The way this was written and managed has been a disaster.
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It should have never been put into effect immediately, with VISA holding travelers in the air impacted, not to mention the chaos it caused for our airlines and airports.And I'm sure we will be hearing soon from Microsoft, Boeing, Google, Amazon, the Auto industries and others on how this ban effected them with both employees and customers flying in from these countries.
The way this was written and managed has been a disaster.
Welcome to the Trump administration. At least four more years to go.
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Welcome to the Trump administration. At least four more years to go.
And I was admitting that many of the decisions made by the administration during the first 7 days had actually been pretty good, when he comes up with this cluster disaster of a executive order. He should this very morning repeal and replace it with a something tht makes common sense, before the news gets worse.
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And I was admitting that many of the decisions made by the administration during the first 7 days had actually been pretty good, when he comes up with this cluster F&#@.
How is this personally affecting you?
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And I was admitting that many of the decisions made by the administration during the first 7 days had actually been pretty good, when he comes up with this cluster F&#@.
Considering that most of the "good" things have been rhetorical or mere optics - taking down a climate change website without actually changing the staff who put it up or the regulations that staff is enforcing is rank political theater without any substance - the balance is a net loss.
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This has been a cluster F@#@ with personal stories of detainees hitting the news this Sunday morning, along with the airport protest. Not a well thought through executive order. Cell phones are being taken away, some people put in handcuffs. One a 76 lady with a green card, another a 21 year old girl a fiancee of a Microsoft employee, a 5 year old boy separated from his family. The stories are only get worse as will the backlash.
The white house is no place for on the job training.
Its only gonna get worse.
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How is this personally affecting you?
If these countries cancel airplane orders or in turn ban travel to their countries, I will be happy to tell you.
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Considering that most of the "good" things have been rhetorical or mere optics - taking down a climate change website without actually changing the staff who put it up or the regulations that staff is enforcing is rank political theater without any substance - the balance is a net loss.
The only really good thing I've seen so far is the overseas abortion funding cut off but realistically those countries will continue to pay for abortion with American dollars.
OTOH its questionable how many abortions were actually being done with American dollars. After all, we were sending money to corrupt foreign governments who line their own pockets first. There's no reason to believe the abortion funding would be different.
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How is this personally affecting you?
Turning my country into a farcical cluster f'k doesn't personally affect me? Then why were you so hot and bothered when Obama did the same thing?
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This has been a cluster F@#@ with personal stories of detainees hitting the news this Sunday morning, along with the airport protest. Not a well thought through executive order. Cell phones are being taken away, some people put in handcuffs. One a 76 lady with a green card, another a 21 year old girl a fiancee of a Microsoft employee, a 5 year old boy separated from his family. The stories are only get worse as will the backlash.
I suspect stories like these were written prior to the EO.
I also suspect we will continue to cower over them.
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Turning my country into a farcical cluster f'k doesn't personally affect me? Then why were you so hot and bothered when Obama did the same thing?
meh He is merely rearranging the pieces.
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I suspect stories like these were written prior to the EO.
I also suspect we will continue to cower over them.
Why didn't Trump exempt Iraq and Afghanistan veterans from this?
It looks terrible. Now we have stories of veterans not being able to visit their families and such.
It doesn't affect me personally, it just looks bad. Yes the media was always aiming to make Trump look bad, but he doesn't have to help them.
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meh He is merely rearranging the pieces.
Maybe so, but that still puts the lie to his promise to make America great again. Unless we're really through the looking glass and all that matters is who's wrecking the country, not the fact that the country is being wrecked.
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I suspect stories like these were written prior to the EO.
I also suspect we will continue to cower over them.
/snicker
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Maybe so, but that still puts the lie to his promise to make America great again. Unless we're really through the looking glass and all that matters is who's wrecking the country, not the fact that the country is being wrecked.
If I look at the list I see nothing that warrants the vitriol.
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Why didn't Trump exempt Iraq and Afghanistan veterans from this?
It looks terrible. Now we have stories of veterans not being able to visit their families and such.
It doesn't affect me personally, it just looks bad. Yes the media was always aiming to make Trump look bad, but he doesn't have to help them.
IMO, the looks part is myopic.
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A lot of ISIS soldiers are from Tunisia; some other countries could be considered in this as well and they could get in but it may be a start. The policy may need to be tweaked.
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Bannon fought and won against the NSA who WANTED green card holders EXCLUDED from the ban.
Waiting for the excusers to appear.
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Age-wise, most threats are young men 35 and under I'd gather. I don't know if one wants to write that into law.
No Saudi Arabia on the list; so, vetting is definitely needed. I'm not sure if this is the best list.
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How is this personally affecting you?
In the history of diplorable acts on humanity, that remains the ugliest of questions.
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FAKE NEWS ALERT: Don’t Believe ANYTHING The Media Tells You About A “MUSLIM BAN”
http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/fake-news-alert-dont-believe-anything-the-media-tells-you-about-a-muslim-ban
Discusses.
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Were green card holders ever vetted before?
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Were green card holders ever vetted before?
@Right_in_Virginia
Yes and how this is being reported is dubious:
Then, they claim that the ban is being applied to all “green card holders.” Yes, some people with green cards were temporarily detained and that was wrong. But the wording of the executive order specifically doesn’t apply to legal, permanent resident of the U.S. Green-card holders have been very thoroughly vetted already. More Fake News.
http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/fake-news-alert-dont-believe-anything-the-media-tells-you-about-a-muslim-ban
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The screwed up implementation aside, let's look at the real INTENT of the executive order.
Here are some FACTS about “TRUMP’S MUSLIM BAN.”
1. It’s not a “BAN.” It’s a 120 day suspension in the processing of visas, intended to give the government time to put in place better vetting procedures.
2. It’s not directed at “MUSLIMS.” It is directed at all individuals, Muslim or non-Muslim, from 7 designated countries. Approximately 90% of the world’s Muslims are totally unaffected.
3. The countries were not put on a list BY TRUMP. In fact, these countries were designated by the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
That aside, the implementation has been screwed up. Good intentions should not be confused with end results.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions...
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If these countries cancel airplane orders or in turn ban travel to their countries, I will be happy to tell you.
Well Iran has already instituted a ban on US citizens visiting their country.
(Not that that's really all that much of an issue, but the threshold's now been crossed for others to follow. Especially so for middle eastern and Muslim countries.)
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Bannon fought and won against the NSA who WANTED green card holders EXCLUDED from the ban.
Waiting for the excusers to appear.
And you know this how?
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And you know this how?
I've seen it reported several places.
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I've seen it reported several places.
Link? I've not seen it reported anywhere.
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Link? I've not seen it reported anywhere.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/index.html
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Turning my country into a farcical cluster f'k doesn't personally affect me? Then why were you so hot and bothered when Obama did the same thing?
Cause it is OK that our guy is doing it.
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/index.html
There is nothing about the NSA in this article. At best, there was this:
Friday night, DHS arrived at the legal interpretation that the executive order restrictions applying to seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan and Yemen -- did not apply to people with lawful permanent residence, generally referred to as green card holders.
But that's DHS, not NSA.
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In the history of diplorable acts on humanity, that remains the ugliest of questions.
Only because you find it necessary to make an emotional investment in that.
I am going by the countries on the list. if Saudi Arabia was on there I could express more concern.
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My position on muslims in The West is well-known in this forum.
Send 'em back.
Send 'em ALL back.
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Does anyone notice that PAKISTAN and AFGHANISTAN are NOT included in the entry ban?
The two countries most aligned with Islamic jihadists who have attacked innocent Americans.
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This is the only part of the ban I disagree with.
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The EO is sloppy and not well thought out. I was worried about things like this coming out of a Trump WH.
Having said that, the green card re-entry thing doesn't bother me. The real possibility of green card holders traveling to the ME to receive terrorist training is real, so it needs to be addressed.
My ability to travel both internally and out of the country has been greatly impacted and inconvenienced by Islamic terrorism, so a greater inconvenience being showered on people making the choice to travel to Islamic countries seems fitting.
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The EO is sloppy and not well thought out. I was worried about things like this coming out of a Trump WH.
Having said that, the green card re-entry thing doesn't bother me. The real possibility of green card holders traveling to the ME to receive terrorist training is real, so it needs to be addressed.
My ability to travel both internally and out of the country has been greatly impacted and inconvenienced by Islamic terrorism, so a greater inconvenience being showered on people making the choice to travel to Islamic countries seems fitting.
I'd agree with this.
The EO was implemented suddenly to keep radical Islamists from sneaking in at the minute. The reason why 109 people were temporarily detained was because they were already en route...it is inherently sloppy. It was other issues at the airports that made the optics worse.
But the intent of the EO was not fully executed. The countries should have included Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia and maybe Egypt. This is the real sloppy part.
Agree with you about the green card, for the reasons you cite.
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How is this personally affecting you?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
So you got nothing but an old hackneyed saying.
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So you got nothing but an old hackneyed saying.
Sounds like you disagree with the 'old hackneyed saying'.
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So you got nothing but an old hackneyed saying.
Do you oppose only those things that personally affect you?
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So you got nothing but an old hackneyed saying.
So now the truth is hackneyed? Hitting the bottle early?
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Do you oppose only those things that personally affect you?
Mostly, but I sure as shit don't give a rats about foreign nationals having to experience an interruption with their visit to my country.
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Does anyone notice that PAKISTAN and AFGHANISTAN are NOT included in the entry ban?
The two countries most aligned with Islamic jihadists who have attacked innocent Americans.
Because they were the same countries in the 2015 0bama EO. Countries with large numbers of refugees. That's all that this addresses.
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Jb4C1qqGL._BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
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Mostly, but I sure as shit don't give a rats about foreign nationals having to experience an interruption with their visit to my country.
Nor do I, but that's what this is about.
I oppose the notion of a Imperial Presidency governing by edict.
P.S. You don't mind if I remind you of that standard of not caring about stuff that doesn't impact you personally standard going forwatrd, do you?
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Because they were the same countries in the 2015 0bama EO. Countries with large numbers of refugees. That's all that this addresses.
It's actually meaningless since the only thng that we can know for sure is the country where they boarded the aircraft traveling to the US. We can't track where their journey really started.
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P.S. You don't mind if I remind you of that standard of not caring about stuff that doesn't impact you personally standard going forwatrd, do you?
You can try, but you will have a hard time figuring out what exactly effects me or not.
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It's actually meaningless since the only thng that we can know for sure is the country where they boarded the aircraft traveling to the US. We can't track where their journey really started.
Sure we can. Their passport says where they have visited. If they have a green-card, where they went/came from before that should have already been vetted.
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Sure we can. Their passport says where they have visited. If they have a green-card, where they went/came from before that should have already been vetted.
You've never been there, have you?
A jeep, a driver, and the desert negates your entire argument.
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You can try, but you will have a hard time figuring out what exactly effects me or not.
It's way easier than you think.
For example... you can't oppose same-sex marriage since you have no obligation under the law to marry someone of your own sex, and someone else's Same-sex marriage has zero impact on you personally.
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You've never been there, have you?
A jeep, a driver, and the desert negates your entire argument.
I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said. This extra scrutiny will be in the case that their passport says that they have visited one of the countries on the list.
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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
You want moslem "no-go" zones all over this country. You want Sharia as the law of the land. That is great for you. Not for me.
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You want moslem "no-go" zones all over this country. You want Sharia as the law of the land. That is great for you. Not for me.
Bingo. The muslim Brotherhoods open goal is to set up "settlements" in the US and push out all the other religions. They have done this worldwide with great effect. Hopefully we are addressing this issue in time and it is not too late.
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You want moslem "no-go" zones all over this country. You want Sharia as the law of the land. That is great for you. Not for me.
No one wants that either. It's affecting a group that Trump really needs on his side in the immigraiton fight..and his first act kicks them in the teeth.
This is hitting a section of the population that already feels screwed over by Obama letting the illegals jump ahead of them while they were doing things the right way...legal resident aliens..Green Card Holders.
Now the legal residents who did things the right way feel they are getting screwed again with Trumps blanket ban.
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No one wants that either. It's affecting a group that Trump really needs on his side in the immigraiton fight..and his first act kicks them in the teeth.
This is hitting a section of the population that already feels screwed over by Obama letting the illegals jump ahead of them while they were doing things the right way...legal resident aliens..Green Card Holders.
Now the legal residents who did things the right way feel they are getting screwed again with Trumps blanket ban.
How is it a blanket ban? 109 people out of 300,000 were detained. Then let in. BFD.
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How is it a blanket ban? 109 people out of 300,000 were detained. Then let in. BFD.
Look at how it's played in the media though. It's the optics that count...the whole perception is reality thing.
We can say BFD here...but the media IS making it a BFD in the eyes of people that don't dig farther than the surface on any issue like this.
And they outnumber us greatly in the grand scheme of things.
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Look at how it's played in the media though. It's the optics that count...the whole perception is reality thing.
We can say BFD here...but the media IS making it a BFD in the eyes of people that don't dig farther than the surface on any issue like this.
And they outnumber us greatly in the grand scheme of things.
True enough. :beer:
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How is it a blanket ban? 109 people out of 300,000 were detained. Then let in. BFD.
To me it's not the ban, which I partially support, it's the arbitrary abruptness of it, the moronic language of the eo itself. Also how it played right into the press' hands.
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This seems pertinent to the discussion:
Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 - "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."
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This seems pertinent to the discussion:
Ya think??? Good to see ya Luis!
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To me it's not the ban, which I partially support, it's the arbitrary abruptness of it, the moronic language of the eo itself. Also how it played right into the press' hands.
I don't know. Doesn't this action call for the element of surprise to see what is actually going on?
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I don't know. Doesn't this action call for the element of surprise to see what is actually going on?
It shouldn't come as a surprise to the people and departments that are tasked with executing the order.
There should have been instructions on what to do about people en route at the time of the implementation of the EO.
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I don't know. Doesn't this action call for the element of surprise to see what is actually going on?
Just read that Mathis wasn't consulted and was furious.
I think a lot of people with gravitas might end up leaving and then well really be up a creek without a paddle.
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Ya think??? Good to see ya Luis!
:beer:
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I oppose the notion of a Imperial Presidency governing by edict.
Amen. And doing it foolishly to boot. I can't improve on NavyCanDo's conclusion on the first page - this has been a clusterf&%$.
Every businessman knows, or ought to know, that you don't change policy without first thinking through the transition issues. According to this morning's WSJ, Trump's head of Homeland Security, John Kelly, didn't even know the details of the order until the morning of the announcement. The horror stories were entirely predictable. Sowing chaos for its own sake may be imperial, but it's also creating blowback and enemies that this young Administration doesn't need.
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That only 109 people were 'paused' is a trumpkin figure bearing no resemblance to reality.
And the pollsters are not asking if people with legal green cards and/or legal permanent residency should be banned.
They only asked about refugees from those seven countries,
The dishonesty is so rampant we must not allow ourselves to get exercised about anything without due diligence on our part.
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Just read that Mathis wasn't consulted and was furious.
I think a lot of people with gravitas might end up leaving and then well really be up a creek without a paddle.
Bingo. Trump's becoming his own worst enemy.
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It shouldn't come as a surprise to the people and departments that are tasked with executing the order.
There should have been instructions on what to do about people en route at the time of the implementation of the EO.
Yeah and Obama's mother should have aborted him in the third trimester to save us all the misery, but she didn't. Woulda coulda shoulda. The EO was ordered and nothing real happened except for a bunch of Snowflake conventions at airports. Don't really care about foreign nations style being cramped.
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Just read that Mathis wasn't consulted and was furious.
I think a lot of people with gravitas might end up leaving and then well really be up a creek without a paddle.
I don't believe a word of it. More unnamed sources bullshit. When has Mathis ever been to afraid to publicly state something that displeased him?
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I don't believe a word of it. More unnamed sources bullshit. When has Mathis ever been to afraid to publicly state something that displeased him?
You don't believe that Trump acted without believing that he needed to consult with anyone once he'd made up his mind?
Isn't acting quickly and decisively one of the man's most distinct character traits, and one for which most of his supporters are praising him?
CEO's don't seek the approval of their subordinates once they've reached what they believe to be the right decision on a course to take to resolve any given issue.
Having said all that, the story of Mattis and others not being consulted prior to the EO being signed is wide spread, and many members of the GOP have personally attested to the fact.
But we all choose to believe what we choose to believe.
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You don't believe that Trump acted without believing that he needed to consult with anyone once he'd made up his mind?
Isn't acting quickly and decisively one of the man's most distinct character traits, and one for which most of his supporters are praising him?
CEO's don't seek the approval of their subordinates once they've reached what they believe to be the right decision on a course to take to resolve any given issue.
Having said all that, the story of Mattis and others not being consulted prior to the EO being signed is wide spread, and many members of the GOP have personally attested to the fact.
But we all choose to believe what we choose to believe.
Did you bother reading WTF's comment or are you just spinning off the rails again? This has to do with whether Mathis was angry about this happening. The only people saying that are MSM Leftist sources using nothing as proof. Their credibility is garbage. Unless there is a named source and a direct quote it is a 100% lie.
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Did you bother reading WTF's comment or are you just spinning off the rails again? This has to do with whether Mathis was angry about this happening. The only people saying that are MSM Leftist sources using nothing as proof. Their credibility is garbage. Unless there is a named source and a direct quote it is a 100% lie.
WTF does Johnny Mathis have to do with this conversation?
As I said, everyone believes what they need to believe in order to preservbe their self-image.
Wellknown leftist MSM source reports on Mattis and the EO.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/30/acting-ag-tells-justice-department-staff-not-to-defend-trumps-refugee-order.html
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Did you bother reading WTF's comment or are you just spinning off the rails again? This has to do with whether Mathis was angry about this happening. The only people saying that are MSM Leftist sources using nothing as proof. Their credibility is garbage. Unless there is a named source and a direct quote it is a 100% lie.
BTW, you seem to have some sort of an issue understanding the King's English.
WTF said: "When has Mathis ever been to afraid to publicly state something that displeased him?"
Which has him dismissing Trump's actions based on his impression of Mattis' (no "h") character and outspoken personality, and that seems to be sufficient proof for you.
I replied that, based on my impression of Trump's character and personality, I have no problem believing that he executed the EO without feeling the need to seek approval from his subordinates.
Yet to you I'm "spinning off the rails again".
Off your meds maybe?
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I'm sooo rich and sooo smart I don't need advice from anyone.
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I'm sooo rich and sooo smart I don't need advice from anyone.
Even when I tell myself "This is a baaaaad idea".