The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: rangerrebew on September 09, 2016, 12:20:34 pm
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Cardinal Burke: Christians and Muslims Do Not Worship The Same God
Catholic Cardinal Raymond Burke, an American and former head of the highest court at the Vatican, said that Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God because the Islamic god “is a governor,” and Islam is Sharia, the law “which comes from Allah” and which “must dominate every man eventually.”
“I hear people saying to me, well, we’re all worshipping the same God, we all believe in love,” said Cardinal Burke in an August teleconference about his latest book, as reported by EWTN’s National Catholic Register [1].
“But I say stop a minute and let’s examine carefully what Islam is, and what our Christian faith teaches us both,” he said.
http://cnsnews.com/print/1259736
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He's correct. "Allah" is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and most certainly not the triune Father, Son and Holy Spirit described in the Bible.
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Raymond Burke is an ass. He is contradicting Catholic teaching.
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
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What’s the Price of Accepting the Idea We Worship the Same God as Muslims?
By Alan Shlemon
Stand to Reason (http://www.str.org/blog/what%E2%80%99s-the-price-of-accepting-the-idea-we-worship-the-same-god-as-muslims)
July 19, 2016Some people claim Muslims and Christians worship the same God. I disagree. I’ve already written my rationale here (http://www.str.org/articles/do-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god). You can also watch my explanation here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLpkm8nQIjw).
There’s another problem, though. Claiming that Muslims and Christians worship the same God is an expression of Islamic theology, not Christian theology. But why affirm an Islamic teaching? It’s the Qur’an that claims that the God of Islam is the same God in Christianity (Surah 2:139, 29:46). That means you affirm the Qur’an is correct when you claim Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Now, I’m not saying that everything the Qur’an teaches is false. It can certainly make true claims. But affirming it’s correct on this point leads to another problem.
You have to rewrite biblical history. Why? On Islam’s view, there has only been one true religion since the beginning of time: Islam. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and even Jesus are all prophets of Allah according to Islam. True followers of Moses (allegedly Allah’s prophet to the Jews) and true followers of Jesus (allegedly Allah’s prophet to the Christians) believed in and worshipped the God described in Islam. But that’s not biblical history. Jews and Christians never worshipped Islam’s God. You have to believe the Qur’an and its revision of biblical history to believe they did. This leads to yet another problem.
You have to believe the Muslim claim that the Bible has been corrupted. Why? As noted above, Islam claims that the original and true followers of Christ never worshipped Him, but instead worshiped Allah. That, of course, is blatantly contradicted by what the New Testament teaches. Early Christians never worshipped Allah, but did worship Jesus as God. Muslims get around this by claiming the parts of Scripture where Jesus claimed to be God or was worshipped have been corrupted. Therefore, in order to believe Christ’s original followers worshipped Allah, you have to accept the Bible is corrupted, as Muslims claim.
This is a big price to pay. To believe Muslims and Christians worship the same God, you have to accept a component of Islamic theology, believe a qur’anic teaching, accept the Muslim revision of biblical history, and believe their claim that the Bible is corrupt. Is that worth it? I think the answer is no.
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I'm glad he said this; I also thought that Catholic Catechism says that all three of the Abrahamic faiths worship the same God.
http://www.catholic.com/blog/todd-aglialoro/christians-muslims-and-the-one-god
But maybe there are details to it. I've looked at the issue some. It appears that is what they say.
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Cardinal Burke: Christians and Muslims Do Not Worship The Same God
Smart man, who speaks the truth.
Too bad this guy wasn't made Pope...
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Cardinal Burke: Christians and Muslims Do Not Worship The Same God
Smart man, who speaks the truth.
Too bad this guy wasn't made Pope...
The Pope demoted him to a worthless job that won't harm anybody.
This is Burke:
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRc41AERhdab_pp20bXRQqMnVtFpgam8CTVchg6Cew7TyWiBtuh)
Would you wear lace and a hat that looked like you were going out to garden? Just how much watered satin should a straight man wear?
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The Pope demoted him to a worthless job that won't harm anybody.
This is Burke:
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRc41AERhdab_pp20bXRQqMnVtFpgam8CTVchg6Cew7TyWiBtuh)
Would you wear lace and a hat that looked like you were going out to garden?
Put your hate boner away for anything Catholic.
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Put your hate boner away for anything Catholic.
I'm Catholic. Have been my entire life. Spent time in a Catholic seminary. Studied theology for four years. Taught theology for six years.
Burke is an arch-traditionalist and his views on Islam are contrary to the teachings of the Church. I know this. Apparently a Roman Catholic cardinal doesn't.
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The bible says it is not in fact it is a pagan god. The moon god is what that allah stands for. No where in the Catholic faith that I was brought up in was I ever taught that Islam was anything but a pagan religion. Actually it is not a religion it is a cult. The only book a real Christian lives by is the bible the whole foundation for the Christians and the only faith a Christian is to hold dear is the one founded by Christ himself. We are to hold dear the Jews who are God's chosen people but no other cult that comes into existence due to a man having epileptic fits and imagining the archangel Michael appeared to him and from there he made up a religion. That so called religion actually a cult debases women and children and believes killing in the name of Allah will get him virgins when they go to heaven. If you think that is the same God you and I serve Sinkspur then you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know where you went to a seminary that taught you such lies.
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I agree with Burke. I really don't see how it could be said that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians worship....since they do not acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God that died on the cross for our sins, they believe if they kill infidels for Allah they will get 72 virgins (or raisons) in heaven, and instead of revering women (like Mother Mary), they treat them like cattle or worse....as property to be used and abused.
And I agree that Pope Francis has....and still is.....struggling with reality. My only question is.....why?
Pope Francis “has struggled against reality” in his efforts to portray Islam as a religion of peace, the article insists, before going on to urge all Muslims to take up the sword of jihad, the “greatest obligation” of a true Muslim.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/09/08/cardinal-raymond-burke-muslims-christians-dont-worship-god/
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The bible says it is not in fact it is a pagan god. The moon god is what that allah stands for. No where in the Catholic faith that I was brought up in was I ever taught that Islam was anything but a pagan religion. Actually it is not a religion it is a cult. The only book a real Christian lives by is the bible the whole foundation for the Christians and the only faith a Christian is to hold dear is the one founded by Christ himself. We are to hold dear the Jews who are God's chosen people but no other cult that comes into existence due to a man having epileptic fits and imagining the archangel Michael appeared to him and from there he made up a religion. That so called religion actually a cult debases women and children and believes killing in the name of Allah will get him virgins when they go to heaven. If you think that is the same God you and I serve Sinkspur then you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know where you went to a seminary that taught you such lies.
Bless your heart.
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I agree with Burke. I really don't see how it could be said that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians worship....since they do not acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God that died on the cross for our sins, they believe if they kill infidels for Allah they will get 72 virgins (or raisons) in heaven, and instead of revering women (like Mother Mary), they treat them like cattle or worse....as property to be used and abused.
And I agree that Pope Francis has....and still is.....struggling with reality. My only question is.....why?
The Jews dont acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. Are they not favored by God?
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I agree with Burke. I really don't see how it could be said that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians worship....since they do not acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God that died on the cross for our sins, they believe if they kill infidels for Allah they will get 72 virgins (or raisons) in heaven, and instead of revering women (like Mother Mary), they treat them like cattle or worse....as property to be used and abused.
And I agree that Pope Francis has....and still is.....struggling with reality. My only question is.....why?
Francis is not struggling with reality. You are.
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Francis is not struggling with reality. You are.
How so?
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The Jews dont acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. Are they not favored by God?
Now I'm confused. Are you comparing the Jews to Muslims here?
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Now I'm confused. Are you comparing the Jews to Muslims here?
You said this:
I really don't see how it could be said that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians worship....since they do not acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God that died on the cross for our sins,
The Jews don't acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. So where do Jews fit in your idea of who God favors?
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How so?
Francis knows what the Church teaches about Muslims and non-Christian faiths.
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Francis knows what the Church teaches about Muslims and non-Christian faiths.
Yes, and as....I believe we have already covered....I don't agree with Pope Francis...and I have stated my reasons.
Do you have anything more current (than 1965) to point to re: what the Church teaches about this comparison of Islam to Christianity? I'd like to see it.
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You said this:
The Jews don't acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. So where do Jews fit in your idea of who God favors?
I'm curious. Why do you feel the need to bring up the Jews?
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Yes, and as....I believe we have already covered....I don't agree with Pope Francis...and I have stated my reasons.
Do you have anything more current (than 1965) to point to re: what the Church teaches about this comparison of Islam to Christianity? I'd like to see it.
The Catholic Church doesn't change its views on non-Christian religions.
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I'm curious. Why do you feel the need to bring up the Jews?
Answer my question:
You said this:
The Jews don't acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God.
So where do Jews fit in your idea of who God favors?
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Answer my question:
You said this:
The Jews don't acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God.
So where do Jews fit in your idea of who God favors?
I wasn't speaking about Jews here and I never mentioned anything about who God favors. The topic is comparing Islam to Christianity....which is what I addressed.
I support the Jews and Israel and pray for them and their deliverance (those that still do not believe Jesus is the son of God)....and since God has chosen them...I don't presume to question God or why he has done so. You can, however, question Him if you choose. Your choice.
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The Catholic Church doesn't change its views on non-Christian religions.
The Catholic Church (which I have no problem with) changes it's leaders and spokespersons (popes) .....and different popes espouse different slants or views on what the Catholic Church believes. So yeah, it does change and "evolves". At least, from my humble perspective.
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The Catholic Church (which I have no problem with) changes it's leaders and spokespersons (popes) .....and different popes espouse different slants or views on what the Catholic Church believes. So yeah, it does change and "evolves". At least, from my humble perspective.
God bless your humble perspective.
The Catholic Church does not change its views toward non-Christian faiths. No matter who the Pope happens to be.
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He's correct. "Allah" is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and most certainly not the triune Father, Son and Holy Spirit described in the Bible.
Islam is not a religion! Islam is a political movement masquerading as a religion!
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I wasn't speaking about Jews here and I never mentioned anything about who God favors. The topic is comparing Islam to Christianity....which is what I addressed.
I support the Jews and Israel and pray for them and their deliverance (those that still do not believe Jesus is the son of God)....and since God has chosen them...I don't presume to question God or why he has done so. You can, however, question Him if you choose. Your choice.
The Catholic Church refers to Jews as "Our elder brothers and sisters in the Faith." And the Church has now backed off trying to convert Jews to Christianity.
As St. Teresa of Calcutta said of her mission: "My calling is not to make all these people Catholic. I am called to make Jews better Jews, Christians better Christians, Muslims better Muslims."
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God bless your humble perspective.
The Catholic Church does not change its views toward non-Christian faiths. No matter who the Pope happens to be.
Well if that's true....
perhaps they should.
There is no comparison re: Christianity vs. Islam. And since the Catholic Church is founded upon the birth of Christ, his life, his teachings, his death and his resurrection.....which Muslims do not believe in....any Catholic that tries to compare Islam with Christianity is blaspheming against the very foundation of the Christian Catholic Church. At least, that's how I see it.
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The Catholic Church refers to Jews as "Our elder brothers and sisters in the Faith." And the Church has now backed off trying to convert Jews to Christianity.
As St. Teresa of Calcutta said of her mission: "My calling is not to make all these people Catholic. I am called to make Jews better Jews, Christians better Christians, Muslims better Muslims."
St. Teresa was indeed a saint. I take no issue with her or what she said. Even she knows that in the last days, many will be converted to Christianity. Many of all 'other' faiths.
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You said this:
The Jews don't acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. So where do Jews fit in your idea of who God favors?
The Apostle Paul dealt with that very subject and gave the answer.
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Islam is not a religion! Islam is a political movement masquerading as a religion!
Amen to that!
And by definition muslims do not worship Christ.
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The bible says it is not in fact it is a pagan god. The moon god is what that allah stands for. No where in the Catholic faith that I was brought up in was I ever taught that Islam was anything but a pagan religion. Actually it is not a religion it is a cult. The only book a real Christian lives by is the bible the whole foundation for the Christians and the only faith a Christian is to hold dear is the one founded by Christ himself. We are to hold dear the Jews who are God's chosen people but no other cult that comes into existence due to a man having epileptic fits and imagining the archangel Michael appeared to him and from there he made up a religion. That so called religion actually a cult debases women and children and believes killing in the name of Allah will get him virgins when they go to heaven. If you think that is the same God you and I serve Sinkspur then you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know where you went to a seminary that taught you such lies.
Aaaaand prior to the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965), the Catholic church taught that the Jews killed Christ.
Are you saying that, since some people grew up with a Church that taught that the Jews killed Christ, that it's right... and that everyone claiming differently is full of it?
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Well if that's true....
perhaps they should.
There is no comparison re: Christianity vs. Islam. And since the Catholic Church is founded upon the birth of Christ, his life, his teachings, his death and his resurrection.....which Muslims do not believe in....any Catholic that tries to compare Islam with Christianity is blaspheming against the very foundation of the Christian Catholic Church. At least, that's how I see it.
You know that your post can apply just as equally to Judaism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism.
IE: There is no comparison re: Christianity vs. Judaism. And since the Catholic Church is founded upon the birth of Christ, his life, his teachings, his death and his resurrection.....which Jews do not believe in....any Catholic that tries to compare Judaism with Christianity is blaspheming against the very foundation of the Christian Catholic Church.
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The god of Muhammad is a declared god, with a declared prophet and a book, with it's associated hadiths...
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a declared God with declared prophets, and a Book (Torah), and it's associated additions (the Bible).
It is simplicity in itself to compare the two.
Torah speaks from the beginning, and cannot be altered in any fashion. NO ONE, according to Yahova, has the authority to do so. Yahova's prophets are prevented from altering that which the prophets beforehand have declared. He is the only god to declare, unalterably, from the beginning, what will be in the end.
*no other scripture*, *none*, has this structure.
Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail.
There is one GOD, and YHWH is his name.