The Briefing Room
State Chapters => Texas => Topic started by: Elderberry on February 16, 2021, 01:32:04 pm
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ABC13 2/15/2021
Governor Greg Abbott says the massive outages leaving millions in the dark Monday were caused by private power companies that "fell short," calling it the winter version of "Hurricane Harvey."
"The people who have fallen short with regard to the power are the private power generation companies," Abbott said.
In a call with ABC13, Abbott expressed frustration that power generators hadn't done enough to ensure the flow of electricity would continue.
"There's a separate part of the system that is not working right now, and those are the private companies that generate the power that goes into ERCOT. And it's those private companies that generate power that are not working," Abbott said. "They were working up until about midnight last night, but after midnight, some of them literally froze up, and were incapable of providing power, and some are still incapable of providing power."
Abbott promised that power would begin to be restored to about 200,000 residential customers as power plants begin coming back online after the winter storm that paralyzed the state left families desperate for power during the bitter cold.
After a cold event in 2011 that took power offline, power generators claim they did a better job of "winterizing" power plants, but Abbott says it didn't go far enough.
"I think after what happened in 2011, an assessment was not made to gauge for this type of event, because the last time we had this type of weather was more than 100 years ago," Abbott said. "We need to calibrate for this type of weather to make sure that the companies that are contracted with to provide the power generation in the state of Texas are going to be capable of providing power generation in these ultra cold temperatures."
More: https://abc13.com/texas-disaster-declaration-governor-greg-abbott-winter-weather-winterizing-roads/10342268/ (https://abc13.com/texas-disaster-declaration-governor-greg-abbott-winter-weather-winterizing-roads/10342268/)
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power would begin to be restored to about 200,000 residential customers
How about the other 4 million?
Texas
Customers Tracked: 12,476,410
State Outages: 4,214,259
Last Updated: 2/16/2021, 07:45:09 AM
https://poweroutage.us/area/state/texas
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Maybe those companies - how many are bird chopper farms - believe in Global Warming. ****drummer
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Most Texas households without power won't be restored today, source estimates
https://abc13.com/weather/10-15%25-of-tx-outages-to-be-restored-today-source-estimates/10344285/
Updated 6 minutes ago
New information indicates that there will be a window Tuesday afternoon where ERCOT hopes to get more power generation, a source at a power company tells ABC13. However, it likely won't be enough to get a lot of customers back online.
The source says the generation this afternoon will be almost all wind power.
They expect about 10-15% of outages to be restored by mid-afternoon, but the majority of households experiencing outages should expect to be without power for the the full day again Tuesday....
...The outages across Texas could stretch for days, due to multiple power generation plants that are offline, according to officials. An estimated 75% of Texas power generation capacity is impacted....
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The Disgusting Reason That Millions of Texans Spent The Night Without Power
(https://tnm.me/news/political/the-disgusting-reason-that-millions-of-texans-spent-the-night-without-power?goal=0_244a299551-aa19c3ac87-321252206&mc_cid=aa19c3ac87&mc_eid=9ee19a558c)
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The Disgusting Reason That Millions of Texans Spent The Night Without Power
(https://tnm.me/news/political/the-disgusting-reason-that-millions-of-texans-spent-the-night-without-power?goal=0_244a299551-aa19c3ac87-321252206&mc_cid=aa19c3ac87&mc_eid=9ee19a558c)
Thanks for the information -- hubby is watching someone on PBS from Stanford Univ. lying through his teeth about the reason why TX has a problem -- he knew he was lying because what the hotshot from Stanford was saying just didn't add up.
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Abbott was too busy last week receiving his award by the wind industry to concern himself with planning for this type of event.
Texas Governor Receives TGE’s Wind Leadership Award
https://nawindpower.com/texas-governor-receives-tges-wind-leadership-award#:~:text=Tri%20Global%20Energy%20(TGE)%2C,Global%20Energy%20Wind%20Leadership%20Award
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The Disgusting Reason That Millions of Texans Spent The Night Without Power
(https://tnm.me/news/political/the-disgusting-reason-that-millions-of-texans-spent-the-night-without-power?goal=0_244a299551-aa19c3ac87-321252206&mc_cid=aa19c3ac87&mc_eid=9ee19a558c)
Repeated from the other thread:
And the requirement was waived. This looks like a very misleading article.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-15/pollution-limit-waived-for-texas-power-plants-in-emergency-order (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-15/pollution-limit-waived-for-texas-power-plants-in-emergency-order)
The Department of Energy issued an emergency order allowing several Texas power plants to produce as much electricity as possible, a move expected to violate anti-pollution rules that comes amid a deepening electricity crisis in the state that has cut power to millions of homes.
The Energy Department order, requested by the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, authorizes power plants throughout the state to run a maximum output levels, even as such a move is anticipated to result in a violation of limits of pollution....
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The DoE order was issued 2/14/2021 at 8:51 PM EST, the same day permission was requested, https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT%2002.14.2021.pdf (https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT%2002.14.2021.pdf) .
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https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/feb/16/natural-gas-not-wind-turbines-main-driver-texas-po/ (https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/feb/16/natural-gas-not-wind-turbines-main-driver-texas-po/)
...The state’s grid operator said Feb. 15 that about 34 gigawatts of power were offline. But of that, about 4 gigawatts was due to problems with wind turbines. The rest came mainly from the state’s primary sources, natural gas and coal.
Dan Woodfin, a senior director for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, told Bloomberg that frozen gauges and instruments at natural gas, coal and nuclear plants cut into operations. Natural gas-fired plants also had to deal with low gas pressure in their supply lines....
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https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/feb/16/natural-gas-not-wind-turbines-main-driver-texas-po/ (https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/feb/16/natural-gas-not-wind-turbines-main-driver-texas-po/)
...The state’s grid operator said Feb. 15 that about 34 gigawatts of power were offline. But of that, about 4 gigawatts was due to problems with wind turbines. The rest came mainly from the state’s primary sources, natural gas and coal.
Dan Woodfin, a senior director for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, told Bloomberg that frozen gauges and instruments at natural gas, coal and nuclear plants cut into operations. Natural gas-fired plants also had to deal with low gas pressure in their supply lines....
Really, that is one of the worst liberal websites one could find, funded by several Texas newspapers like the Houston Chronicle and Austin American Statesman.
Just look at the drivel which comes out of their website https://www.politifact.com/texas/ (https://www.politifact.com/texas/)
I am still wondering whether the libs are pinpointing the partially used natural gas backup generators within their tabulations of natural gas capacity of the state.
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Really, that is one of the worst liberal websites one could find, funded by several Texas newspapers like the Houston Chronicle and Austin American Statesman.
Just look at the drivel which comes out of their website https://www.politifact.com/texas/ (https://www.politifact.com/texas/)
I am still wondering whether the libs are pinpointing the partially used natural gas backup generators within their tabulations of natural gas capacity of the state.
sigh...
https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/are-frozen-wind-turbines-to-blame-for-texas-power-outages/ (https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/are-frozen-wind-turbines-to-blame-for-texas-power-outages/)
...But the vast majority of energy the state generates is through natural gas. In October 2020, the U.S. Energy Information Administration reported that renewables generated 22% of the state’s energy, while gas generated 51.8%.
In ERCOT’s plan for this winter, it expected that thermal and hydro resources, i.e. gas, coal and water, would need to generate 67,000 megawatts per hour during a high demand event to support the state. This didn’t take into account a historic snow storm where demand would increase and supply would be threatened.
On Monday, frozen instruments and a limited gas supply forced 30,000 MW/h of power offline. This was half of what ERCOT believed they would need. According to the agency, wind turbines account for less than 13% of the total generation that was lost. The majority of which was coal and gas....
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I will never vote for Abbott for anything ever again.
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I will never vote for Abbott for anything ever again.
And I will join you @dfwgator There is plenty of blame to go around in this fiasco and the vast majority of it goes to people Abbott appointed.
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I will never vote for Abbott for anything ever again.
But Abbott is loved by the wind industry, isn't he?
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,428905.msg2382173.html#msg2382173 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,428905.msg2382173.html#msg2382173)
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I will never vote for Abbott for anything ever again.
Ditto.
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I will never vote for Abbott for anything ever again.
I do not think Abbott had anything at all to do with the situation in Texas energy this week.
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I do not think Abbott had anything at all to do with the situation in Texas energy this week.
Anything? I don't have anything on the situation but I believe one cannot say the same for a Governor.
The purpose of electing a governor is to select a leader who brings in competent people to help run the show and to ensure strategic and tactical plans are developed and executed that keeps the state running smoothly, including plans for different scenarios.
Abbott of course is not 100% to blame for an Artic blast enveloping this state. No one is.
But is he most certainly ultimately most responsible within this state for handling its effects? The governor, who we elected to keep things smooth for us.
The quick blaming of problems to private companies, the frantic development of a task force to ascertain "What went wrong" and cutting off natural gas from leaving the state speaks to me of reacting to events instead of developing sufficient plans to anticipate future events like this.
All one has to do is to look into what the governor was actually doing the few weeks or so before the chill set in to see if he in fact had his priorities correct.
As an example, here is the full transcript of his State of State speech he delivered earlier in February. https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/XgUsY3okgVeISJRtHUjoRPWT3AlE2louWPThFWEkWACD2d4_DcsqYtKUnpaGih-FJ72KyHLkNlBP0UDMJ2BBy2e963E?loadFrom=PastedDeeplink&ts=79.76 (https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/XgUsY3okgVeISJRtHUjoRPWT3AlE2louWPThFWEkWACD2d4_DcsqYtKUnpaGih-FJ72KyHLkNlBP0UDMJ2BBy2e963E?loadFrom=PastedDeeplink&ts=79.76)
I see nothing on there regarding the issue of preparing for contingency planning for an chill which could affect out electric grid. Sit it was chosen by him not to be a priority in keeping the state running smoothly just a short time ago.
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Anything? I don't have anything on the situation but I believe one cannot say the same for a Governor.
The purpose of electing a governor is to select a leader who brings in competent people to help run the show and to ensure strategic and tactical plans are developed and executed that keeps the state running smoothly, including plans for different scenarios.
Abbott of course is not 100% to blame for an Artic blast enveloping this state. No one is.
But is he most certainly ultimately most responsible within this state for handling its effects? The governor, who we elected to keep things smooth for us.
The quick blaming of problems to private companies, the frantic development of a task force to ascertain "What went wrong" and cutting off natural gas from leaving the state speaks to me of reacting to events instead of developing sufficient plans to anticipate future events like this.
All one has to do is to look into what the governor was actually doing the few weeks or so before the chill set in to see if he in fact had his priorities correct.
As an example, here is the full transcript of his State of State speech he delivered earlier in February. https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/XgUsY3okgVeISJRtHUjoRPWT3AlE2louWPThFWEkWACD2d4_DcsqYtKUnpaGih-FJ72KyHLkNlBP0UDMJ2BBy2e963E?loadFrom=PastedDeeplink&ts=79.76 (https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/XgUsY3okgVeISJRtHUjoRPWT3AlE2louWPThFWEkWACD2d4_DcsqYtKUnpaGih-FJ72KyHLkNlBP0UDMJ2BBy2e963E?loadFrom=PastedDeeplink&ts=79.76)
I see nothing on there regarding the issue of preparing for contingency planning for an chill which could affect out electric grid. Sit it was chosen by him not to be a priority in keeping the state running smoothly just a short time ago.
Depending on government to take care of you in a natural emergency is for liberals.
I'll pass
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I do not think Abbott had anything at all to do with the situation in Texas energy this week.
Yeah, but screaming "Blame Someone else" as first words is more what we expect from democrats. I join my cohorts above in being disappointed in Abbott.
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I'm less than convinced Abbott bears responsibility for the mess, but anytime a regulated utility Fs up the state commission regulating the utilities needs to be scrutinized. As others have pointed out, at least some of those commissioners were Abbot appointees.
Of course, I live half a continent away.
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I'm less than convinced Abbott bears responsibility for the mess, but anytime a regulated utility Fs up the state commission regulating the utilities needs to be scrutinized. As others have pointed out, at least some of those commissioners were Abbot appointees.
Of course, I live half a continent away.
No argument. Last I looked at the Texas PUC org chart... it funnelled up to Abbott.
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No argument. Last I looked at the Texas PUC org chart... it funnelled up to Abbott.
What different result in this specific situation do you expect with a different governor? How would it be different this week?
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What different result in this specific situation do you expect with a different governor? How would it be different this week?
One of the governor's major responsibilities is to make appointments and if they turn out to be good ones he looks good and if they turn out to be bad he looks bad as well.
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What different result in this specific situation do you expect with a different governor? How would it be different this week?
(1)That wasn't the point.
(2) Good leaders lead and have ready solutions to problems... not point fingers.
(3) Good leaders would have surrounded themselves with people with the vision to forsee disasterous scenarios, and plan for contingencies and preventive measures.
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(1)That wasn't the point.
But it should be if you are blaming him and think he should not be supported in the future because of this.
(2) Good leaders lead and have ready solutions to problems... not point fingers.
Yep, but some situation have little in good solutions. As for pointing fingers, that is exactly what I see most on this forum doing, with little understanding of the real cause of the problems.
(3) Good leaders would have surrounded themselves with people with the vision to forsee disasterous scenarios, and plan for contingencies and preventive measures.
Yep. And let us go back to the question: What different result in this specific situation do you expect?
More government regulations and more expense based on to the rate payer? Is that your desire?
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One of the governor's major responsibilities is to make appointments and if they turn out to be good ones he looks good and if they turn out to be bad he looks bad as well.
That is always reality. But I expect conservatives to react and support/reject politicians based upon reality, not emotions. Maybe my expectations are too high.
If the appointments are bad, what specific actions and by who, should have been different?
I did not like the results of Hurricane Harvey either. But in reality, the only person I really expected to have performed better was myself.
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More government regulations and more expense based on to the rate payer? Is that your desire?
If it was not wasted, and spent directly to infrastructure that would improve grid reliability say double or triple?
Damn right I wouldn't mind paying a rate increase.
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That is always reality. But I expect conservatives to react and support/reject politicians based upon reality, not emotions. Maybe my expectations are too high.
If the appointments are bad, what specific actions and by who, should have been different?
I did not like the results of Hurricane Harvey either. But in reality, the only person I really expected to have performed better was myself.
Econ 101: If you are in the electrical power generation business you should know that you cannot sell the power you cannot generate and therefore you should do whatever is necessary to make sure you can generate under all conditions. It appears that was not done in many cases so put it down to bad management.
Individual liberty and personnel responsibility are inextricably linked. You cannot have one without the other and that applies to businesses as well.
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If it was not wasted, and spent directly to infrastructure that would improve grid reliability say double or triple?
Damn right I wouldn't mind paying a rate increase.
My opinion, and only that, government would pass a regulation, say your equipment is required to be permitted, it must operate down to 20°F or some other number.
Gas wells, Gas Plants, Gas pipelines, Gas Power plants, wind turbines, nuke plants, substations, etc are then all required to be built to this standard, no grandfather clause, maybe 5 years to complete the work. Verification by registered professional engineer providing design specs, drawings, etc.
We would get 40~80% compliance I suspect. a quarter of so of that would not work, either from not following the design, bad design, or more often, some little piece that was still required was missed.
There would be a significant number that would fake the verification. I suspect the average public would be shocked by how much.
There was a huge amount of dollars to be made this week if you could deliver gas or electricity to either "spot" market. I'm talking often 100 times greater than normal price, and up. That alone is going to cause a good number of companies at all levels to make some improvements.
But if you read the reports from what happened in 2011, it is the same crap as before, just more widespread and bigger numbers, but all the same problems.
Report on Outages and Curtailments During the Southwest Cold Weather Event of February 1-5, 2011
https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf (https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf)
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Econ 101: If you are in the electrical power generation business you should know that you cannot sell the power you cannot generate and therefore you should do whatever is necessary to make sure you can generate under all conditions. It appears that was not done in many cases so put it down to bad management.
Individual liberty and personnel responsibility are inextricably linked. You cannot have one without the other and that applies to businesses as well.
Econ 201 says you don't spend $100 dollars to make $50 1 week out of every 10 years. This applies to most of the situation this week.
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Econ 201 says you don't spend $100 dollars to make $50 1 week out of every 10 years. This applies to most of the situation this week.
Econ 301: Past performance is no indicator of the future. Not preparing for all contingencies is just plain irresponsible IMHO.
Or, as my dear departed grandmother pounded into my head, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Having to repair damage from incidents that could have been prevented seems silly to me.
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My opinion, and only that, government would pass a regulation, say your equipment is required to be permitted, it must operate down to 20°F or some other number.
Gas wells, Gas Plants, Gas pipelines, Gas Power plants, wind turbines, nuke plants, substations, etc are then all required to be built to this standard, no grandfather clause, maybe 5 years to complete the work. Verification by registered professional engineer providing design specs, drawings, etc.
We would get 40~80% compliance I suspect. a quarter of so of that would not work, either from not following the design, bad design, or more often, some little piece that was still required was missed.
There would be a significant number that would fake the verification. I suspect the average public would be shocked by how much.
There was a huge amount of dollars to be made this week if you could deliver gas or electricity to either "spot" market. I'm talking often 100 times greater than normal price, and up. That alone is going to cause a good number of companies at all levels to make some improvements.
But if you read the reports from what happened in 2011, it is the same crap as before, just more widespread and bigger numbers, but all the same problems.
Report on Outages and Curtailments During the Southwest Cold Weather Event of February 1-5, 2011
https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf (https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf)
Are you serious? Gas wells required to have insulated pipe? Yeah right...at $3 an mcf...yeah that would be economical....NOT!
Most of our transportation lines are run on top of the ground and most of that is solid rock. This was a 1-100 year event. Just like a hurricane.... Things happen... Besides, with global warming this will never happen again...lololol.
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What different result in this specific situation do you expect with a different governor? How would it be different this week?
Rather than answering directly, I will simply relate the composition of the current PUC board, all appointed by Greg Abbott and ask the question: Do careers in law and politics qualify someone to understand and decide what to do about complex operational technical issues such as involved in protection of our electric grid?
Do you believe Greg Abbott could have selected someone competent in these operational issues instead of selecting his buddies?
BTW, I might send in a request to nominate you @thackney for one of the new positions which will most certainly be opening up soon.
Chairman DeAnn T. Walker - Law degree, worked as Asst general counsel for Greg Abbott
Commissioner Arthur C. D'Andrea - Lawyer and former Asst general counsel for Greg Abbott
Commissioner Shelly Botkin - Anthropology degree, worked as political aide for two state senators
http://www.puc.texas.gov/ (http://www.puc.texas.gov/)
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Econ 301: Past performance is no indicator of the future. Not preparing for all contingencies is just plain irresponsible IMHO.
Or, as my dear departed grandmother pounded into my head, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Having to repair damage from incidents that could have been prevented seems silly to me.
If you think your crystal ball is crystal clear, go ahead and spend those dollars.
I've found mine to be rather clouding and thinking I can predict anything that will happen for ALL contingencies is rather silly.
Back to Econ 201
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Are you serious? Gas wells required to have insulated pipe? Yeah right...at $3 an mcf...yeah that would be economical....NOT!
Most of our transportation lines are run on top of the ground and most of that is solid rock. This was a 1-100 year event. Just like a hurricane.... Things happen... Besides, with global warming this will never happen again...lololol.
What is the gas price in Canada? They produce gas.
And the reality after all those demanding the government "DO SOMETHING" should expect to pay higher prices.
Same as those buying a house that prevents the pipes from freezing during an event that happens once or twice in their lifetime.
I'm with you brother. The only person I expect to do something following this event is myself, to be better prepared. I with others thought the same.
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Are you serious? Gas wells required to have insulated pipe? Yeah right...at $3 an mcf...yeah that would be economical....NOT!
I don't think that is what is being discussed here. What I'm saying is that $100.00 spent hardening plants against freezing will pay many times that in returns over the long term. It seems that my friend @thackney and I have a fundamental disagreement on that point which is not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
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I will never vote for Abbott for anything ever again.
Of course it was Abbot's fault that cold came down from the Arctic. Just like it was Bush's fault Katrina destroyed New Orleans and Trump caused Covid. Come on man!...lol
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Rather than answering directly, I will simply relate the composition of the current ERCOT board, all appointed by Greg Abbott and ask the question: Do careers in law and politics qualify someone to understand and decide what to do about complex operational technical issues such as involved in protection of our electric grid?
Do you believe Greg Abbott could have selected someone competent in these operational issues instead of selecting his buddies?
BTW, I might send in a request to nominate you @thackney for one of the new positions which will most certainly be opening up soon.
Chairman DeAnn T. Walker - Law degree, worked as Asst general counsel for Greg Abbott
Commissioner Arthur C. D'Andrea - Lawyer and former Asst general counsel for Greg Abbott
Commissioner Shelly Botkin - Anthropology degree, worked as political aide for two state senators
http://www.puc.texas.gov/ (http://www.puc.texas.gov/)
You jest. That is a political position, doing political work. I would not consider such a junk job. I work in the mud just to avoid going to meetings with real technical content.
p.s. I suspect most years that job would be a pay cut
https://www.zippia.com/electric-reliability-council-of-texas-careers-1345941/salary/ (https://www.zippia.com/electric-reliability-council-of-texas-careers-1345941/salary/)
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You jest. That is a political position, doing political work. I would not consider such a junk job. I work in the mud just to avoid going to meetings with real technical content.
Nope, Abbott has a political position.
He appoints people under him who are supposed to understand something about what they are involved in.
I saw this firsthand when I lived in the New Orleans area and the composition of Levee Boards, all political patronage positions, without experience in dealing with what they were supposed to govern.
And we all saw the results of that following Katrina.
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Pelosi says House panel to investigate Texas winter power outages
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/539415-pelosi-says-house-panel-to-investigate-texas-winter-power-outages
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I don't think that is what is being discussed here. What I'm saying is that $100.00 spent hardening plants against freezing will pay many times that in returns over the long term. It seems that my friend @thackney and I have a fundamental disagreement on that point which is not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
Then it is clear you do not understand the entire supply chain was the problem this week.
Gas Power plants don't run without every system working at those temperatures.
Gas Power plants don't run without fuel.
Gas Pipelines don't delivery fuel without the compressor stations running.
Gas Pipelines don't get gas without the Gas Plants operating to separate gas, NG liquids, water, etc.
Gas Plants don't get gas without the gathering lines delivering gas.
Gas gathering lines don't get gas without the well delivering gas.
Every single step of the process had significant outages, intentionally or not.
If you don't change every step, the process will not work.
And this applies to every other method of power generation, but few have as many interrelated steps that have to run continuous for sustained operation.
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Then it is clear you do not understand the entire supply chain was the problem this week.
Gas Power plants don't run without every system working at those temperatures.
Gas Power plants don't run without fuel.
Gas Pipelines don't delivery fuel without the compressor stations running.
Gas Pipelines don't get gas without the Gas Plants operating to separate gas, NG liquids, water, etc.
Gas Plants don't get gas without the gathering lines delivering gas.
Gas gathering lines don't get gas without the well delivering gas.
Every single step of the process had significant outages, intentionally or not.
If you don't change every step, the process will not work.
And this applies to every other method of power generation, but few have as many interrelated steps that have to run continuous for sustained operation.
I understand ALL of that quite well as I worked in that industry for many years.
I SERIOUSLY doubt that gas gathering was/is a major part of the problem we are currently facing. I suspect that the problems mostly occurred downstream of that at separation and treatment facilities, compressor stations, and the generation facilities themselves. I find that unacceptable. you obviously disagree with me on that.
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I understand ALL of that quite well as I worked in that industry for many years.
I SERIOUSLY doubt that gas gathering was/is a major part of the problem we are currently facing. I suspect that the problems mostly occurred downstream of that at separation and treatment facilities, compressor stations, and the generation facilities themselves. I find that unacceptable. you obviously disagree with me on that.
Then you did not pay attention to @mrpotatohead
...As for the clueless people who wonder why gas/oil wells were shut in... We shut ALL of our production in before the freeze, because we have waaaay too much equipment to put at risk of being destroyed. What idiot would risk their equipment for the pitiful price we receive for the product?
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Then you did not pay attention to @mrpotatohead
Which came first the chicken or the egg? You cannot tell me that those separation facilities cannot be hardened against cold weather because I KNOW DAMNED WELL THEY CAN BE. I've done it. Do they shut-in production in Canada, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota, and every other cold place in the world just because it's cold outside?
I'm not suggesting that anything be mandated, I'm just saying that if I were the one running any of the affected facilities this would not have happened in that facility.
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Which came first the chicken or the egg? You cannot tell me that those separation facilities cannot be hardened against cold weather because I KNOW DAMNED WELL THEY CAN BE. I've done it. Do they shut-in production in Canada, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota, and every other cold place in the world just because it's cold outside?
I'm not suggesting that anything be mandated, I'm just saying that if I were the one running any of the affected facilities this would not have happened.
I have said no such thing. I worked on the Alaskan North Slope for years in Oil and Gas Production. I know it can be done.
Where have I said any such thing that insinuated it could not be done? Go back read my words and tell me where you think I meant that.
The only reason it is not typically done here is cost.
But it does not solve the problem to fix the separation facility for the cold and still shutdown the wells, or any other part of the process.
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I have said no such thing. I worked on the Alaskan North Slope for years in Oil and Gas Production. I know it can be done.
Where have I said any such thing that insinuated it could not be done? Go back read my words and tell me where you think I meant that.
The only reason it is not typically done here is cost.
But it does not solve the problem to fix the separation facility for the cold and still shutdown the wells, or any other part of the process.
And I think those costs would be money well spent where you do not and I have said that very thing repeatedly now.
We are talking past each other now.
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And I think those costs would be money well spent where you do not and I have said that very thing repeatedly now.
I hope many companies think like you. I can use the work. Trying to convince our primary client that has lots of Gas Plants around Texas and Oklahoma the same.
I have not made any claims the money would or would not be well spent. I am only pointing out that many of the companies in the business already decided it was not in the best interest. I hope they change their minds. I believe some of them already have, I hope more of them do.
We are talking past each other now.
From my point, it looks like you keep arguing with things I have not written. But I've been wrong before, will be again, after all I'm married with kids.
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I hope many companies think like you. I can use the work. Trying to convince our primary client that has lots of Gas Plants around Texas and Oklahoma the same.
I have not made any claims the money would or would not be well spent. I am only pointing out that many of the companies in the business already decided it was not in the best interest. I hope they change their minds. I believe some of them already have, I hope more of them do.
From my point, it looks like you keep arguing with things I have not written. But I've been wrong before, will be again, after all I'm married with kids.
LOL! So am I! Although all of mine are all grown up and not currently calling home for money!
I fully understand the conflict between getting money approved for a project and getting what is actually needed to be built. I have experienced that many times and I've seen the result of that false economy in practice. The local maintenance guys wind up spending many times over what it would have cost to do it right in the first place.
(Do you remember those old FRAM oil filter commercials: "You can pay me now or pay him later"?)
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...Officials for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages most of Texas’ grid, said the primary cause of the outages Tuesday appeared to be the state’s natural gas providers. Many are not designed to withstand such low temperatures on equipment or during production.
By some estimates, nearly half of the state’s natural gas production has screeched to a halt due to the extremely low temperatures, while freezing components at natural gas-fired power plants have forced some operators to shut down....
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/ (https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/)
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About the PUCT
Mission of the Texas Public Utilities Commission:
We protect customers, foster competition, and promote high quality infrastructure.
What We Do:
The Public Utility Commission of Texas regulates the state's electric, telecommunication, and water and sewer utilities, implements respective legislation, and offers customer assistance in resolving consumer complaints.
I want to see a show of hands on how well this group performed its primary Mission on its website?
Any takers?
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IIRC ERCOT has been involved in Texas energy production for 20 years.
Abbott has been governor for what 5 years now?
Who was governor in Texas 20 years ago?
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Got power back this morning, the water is still off. I'll have to wait till they thaw, Saturday I suppose, to see if I have any broken pipes. snowing all day.
Back on Topic, I don't blame Abbott, he inherited this shit from the 3 prior Administrations, in the workings for 26 years, just like Trump did.
(https://utpress.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/images/covers/full/9780292735835.jpg)
"The Great Texas Wind Rush: How George Bush, Ann Richards, and a Bunch of Tinkerers Helped the Oil and Gas State Win the Race to Wind Power"
June 1, 2015
By Kate Galbraith and Asher Price
University of Texas Press, $16.72
Reviewed by BILL KOVARIK
Gold, oil and land rushes are such oversized legends in Texas that the initial image of a “wind rush†conjures a vision of Pecos Bill striding over the sagebrush prairie, planting rows of giant white whirligigs and leaving streams of glowing electrons in his wake.
Yet sometimes living legends are even more interesting. How in thunder would the politically far-flung panoply of Texas politicians and tycoons such as George W. Bush, Anne Richards and T. Boone Pickens agree on something as ephemeral as grabbing power out of thin air?
Kate Galbraith and Asher Price answer that question with a vividly crafted cross-section of the wind industry through biography, history and literary journalism.
<..snip..>
https://www.sej.org/publications/sejournal-sp2015/great-texas-wind-rush (https://www.sej.org/publications/sejournal-sp2015/great-texas-wind-rush)
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https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/ (https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/)
I have no dispute with what that article says. My question is sould we continue to operate that way in the future?
Perhaps the answer is to install some LNG storage near gas-powered generation plants.
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IIRC ERCOT has been involved in Texas energy production for 20 years.
Abbott has been governor for what 5 years now?
Who was governor in Texas 20 years ago?
Just for reference to the discussion:
Founded in 1970, ERCOT is an independent, not-for-profit organization responsible for overseeing the reliable and safe transmission of electricity over the power grid serving most of Texas. As the Independent System Operator (ISO) since 1996, ERCOT has been the broker between competitive wholesale power buyers and sellers. The ERCOT ISO also provided the platform upon which Texas' electric utility industry made the transition to retail competition on Jan. 1, 2002.
http://www.ercot.com/news/mediakit/backgrounder (http://www.ercot.com/news/mediakit/backgrounder)
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"The Great Texas Wind Rush: How George Bush, Ann Richards, and a Bunch of Tinkerers Helped the Oil and Gas State Win the Race to Wind Power"
Corbe... What all our politicans did to allow West Texas, and the entire western U.S to be littered by these monstrocities is a crime by itself.
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I have no dispute with what that article says. My question is sould we continue to operate that way in the future?
Perhaps the answer is to install some LNG storage near gas-powered generation plants.
Massive cost associated with that. Should it be state owned and operated?
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Just for reference to the discussion:
Founded in 1970, ERCOT is an independent, not-for-profit organization responsible for overseeing the reliable and safe transmission of electricity over the power grid serving most of Texas. As the Independent System Operator (ISO) since 1996, ERCOT has been the broker between competitive wholesale power buyers and sellers. The ERCOT ISO also provided the platform upon which Texas' electric utility industry made the transition to retail competition on Jan. 1, 2002.
http://www.ercot.com/news/mediakit/backgrounder (http://www.ercot.com/news/mediakit/backgrounder)
Thanks.
It would appear that Governor Goodhair deserves some blame for this mess too.
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Massive cost associated with that. Should it be state owned and operated?
No! Just a thought off the top of my head. The costs would be recovered over time IMHO.
If we want a truly reliable electrical grid in Texas we need to consider all the options and it would be nice if politics could be kept out of the discussion but definitely won't be.
Do you know if there is a cost per MW comparison of the various types of generation in Texas @thackney
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Thanks.
It would appear that Governor Goodhair deserves some blame for this mess too.
The process to become an ISO began under Richards.
But I do not blame the existence for the ISO as the problem.
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No! Just a thought off the top of my head. The costs would be recovered over time IMHO.
If we want a truly reliable electrical grid in Texas we need to consider all the options and it would be nice if politics could be kept out of the discussion but definitely won't be.
Do you know if there is a cost per MW comparison of the various types of generation in Texas @thackney
Not specific to Texas, but cost comparison of the different types in the US. Capital cost, Operations and Fuel all part of the equation.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf (https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf)
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The process to become an ISO began under Richards.
But I do not blame the existence for the ISO as the problem.
I agree.
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Not specific to Texas, but cost comparison of the different types in the US. Capital cost, Operations and Fuel all part of the equation.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf (https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf)
Thanks! I'll take a look at it.
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None of my business... But this conversation is interesting to me.
There is a certain normalcy bias at play here... Decades since the last big freeze, the appearance of normalcy tends to forget the past, and to some degree legitimately.
That is why multi-million dollar estates get built right on a hurricane coast. Somewhere in the back of your mind, the chances of disaster become slim as the decades march by... Always forgetting the tendency, nay prediction, that the disaster will certainly come again.
YES, Abbott's government got caught with their pants down. And no doubt the reflexive finger pointing would come naturally, as that normalcy bias left them as comfortably numb as everyone else.
Finger pointing in this is no different than the finger pointing after a massive hurricane - It's just that all y'all are used to hurricanes and the disaster they bring - And so is your government.
More to the point, as @thackney opined, Why aren't rough and ready Texans ready for it themselves? Be mad that the government was hapless in this, even as it was with the flooding. But in that case, it was largely your neighbors that picked up the slack, not the government.
What is to be mourned in this is the state of the Spirit of Texas - That rugged individualism that makes community help possible. The ability to stand on your own two feet and make yourself invulnerable, to the best as you can. Because those that are invulnerable are the ones that can help others, right there at the local level. THAT, my friends is what should be mourned and corrected.
Sure and the government has a role - To remove the strictures that prevent alt heat sources, and dissuade independence... to strengthen power distribution and sharing in the wake of this freeze.
Reverting back to that multi-million dollar estate built on a hurricane coast - It is normalcy that put it there. Maybe that is wrong, but it is predictable... It is not wrong to make the man well in the wake of disaster - be that by insurance or even public funds... but it is wrong to let him rebuild in the midst of making him well. Because that expense is doomed to be spent yet again. Literally it is doomed.
Likewise in this. But the thing that needs rebuilt, the thing that needs repair is that indomitable Texas Spirit and Faith... And what needs to be prevented and educated against is not the rebuilding of the multi-million dollar house - an example of (reliance on) government in this example - That is the thing that should not be allowed to be rebuilt again - leaving the citizens the wherewithal to stand for themselves. Inevitably.
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Decades since the last big freeze, the appearance of normalcy tends to forget the past, and to some degree legitimately.
Sadly, just a single decade with all the same problems, but not as widespread or as big of numbers.
Report on Outages and Curtailments During the Southwest Cold Weather Event of February 1-5, 2011
https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf (https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf)
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In times of disaster like these, I have far more faith in people in the community than in any government official.
Mattress Mack opens Gallery Furniture as shelter during winter storm
https://abc13.com/mattress-mack-gallery-furniture-store-opens-jim-mcingvale-winter-storm/10344483/
..."Rather than complain about what should have been done, let's just do things that are good for the community. Get people out here. Whether they want to stay for two hours until their power gets back on, or they want to stay for two days, we're here for the community," he said....
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Sadly, just a single decade with all the same problems, but not as widespread or as big of numbers.
Report on Outages and Curtailments During the Southwest Cold Weather Event of February 1-5, 2011
https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf (https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf)
If it was thus in memory, why is it that Texans took no steps? A few 20 lb propane tanks and Buddy Heaters would cause this to have been of little consequence... A wood stove... something...
Forgive my preaching. It is just so simple to me. And I think folks need to look to themselves more than toward government. And hopefully, the next time the north heads south, y'all will all be just fine.
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If it was thus in memory, why is it that Texans took no steps? A few 20 lb propane tanks and Buddy Heaters would cause this to have been of little consequence... A wood stove... something...
Forgive my preaching. It is just so simple to me. And I think folks need to look to themselves more than toward government. And hopefully, the next time the north heads south, y'all will all be just fine.
This drunk, stoned Ol Hippie survived on Natural Gas only. I. too, wonder where that Texas Spirit has gone to.
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No! Just a thought off the top of my head. The costs would be recovered over time IMHO.
If we want a truly reliable electrical grid in Texas we need to consider all the options and it would be nice if politics could be kept out of the discussion but definitely won't be.
Do you know if there is a cost per MW comparison of the various types of generation in Texas @thackney
A reliable grid would prioritize the most reliable means of producing electricity.
Those we talked about before and are headed by coal and nuclear.
Coal can pile up mountains of raw fuel immediately outside the plant which mitigates the issues of freezing and natural gas bottlenecks experienced by our current primary system of power production, natural gas, which almost always has pipelines involved.
Nuclear is simply close to perfect for sustaining deliveries during periods of cold weather.
Wind and solar are jokes for dependability.
When I lived in New England, fuel oil was the preferred choice for residential heating as it also could have oil 'stockpiled' in a 500 gal tank on your premises - same principal as coal.
We don't use much in the way of fuel oil any more for power generation, but liquid methane(LNG) is a potential way to better ensure fuel feed occurs during emergencies. We are certainly in the LNG business full throttle compared to years gone by.