Author Topic: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers  (Read 3006 times)

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2024, 01:14:27 pm »
8bs8 Especially the bolded part!

Sigh

Some counter data would be nice . But you can’t do it.

Even before the pandemic, for example, more jobs were created in the last three years of Obama’s  term versus the first three years of Donald Trump’s. That’s a fact you can’t dance around

And yearly GDP still stayed below 3% under Donald Trump as it did under Obama. But we got a hell of a lot more debt under Trump
 
In fact, if the  great recession and housing crash happen at the end of Obama’s term, and Trump got elected, his tenure would be considered the worst economic recovery since the end of World War II
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 01:23:13 pm by LMAO »
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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2024, 01:21:56 pm »
Sigh

Some counter data would be nice . But you can’t do it.

Even before the pandemic, for example, more jobs were created in the last three years of Obamas’s term versus the first three years of Donald Trump’s. That’s a fact you can’t dance around

Go vote for Obama and stop pretending to be what decidedly are not!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2024, 01:22:36 pm »
8bs8 Especially the bolded part!
Well, they say TDS is a mental disorder. From what I have seen, NeverTrumpers view Trump as a kind of Jesus figure. They place all the sins of the world on his shoulders including issues in their own personal lives which they themselves created.

While it is fun to watch them make up fantasy issues with Trump, it is also a little disturbing.

Trump created inflation.
Trump is responsible for the National Debt.
Trump is the reason Hamas attacked Israel.
Trump is why my car broke down.
Trump caused COVID.
Trump killed my dog.
Trump caused my divorce.

Whatever is wrong with the world, or America, or your own personal life, ... the answer is easy.
IT's ALL TRUMP's FAULT!
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2024, 01:26:06 pm »
Go vote for Obama and stop pretending to be what decidedly are not!

Prove me wrong. I’ll provide the data and you provide the counter data. I’m willing to have the debate.

It’s becoming clear that the reasons for voting for Donald Trump are rapidly deteriorating. And his supporters know it

https://money.com/trump-vs-obama-economy/

The last three years of President Obama’s administration saw an increase of 8.1 million jobs and a 2 percentage-point drop in the overall unemployment rate, decreasing from 6.2% in 2014 to 4.9% by the end of 2016. It's worth noting that when Obama took office in 2009, the country had recently lost around 8.6 million jobs due to the Great Recession.

Under Trump, the number of jobs increased by 6.55 million in his first three years, and unemployment dropped from 4.4% to 3.7%. At the same time, however, the growth rate of disposable income actually dropped, from 2.6% to 2.3%, according to the Moody's report






If you have any data to counter that I would be happy to read it
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 01:33:41 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2024, 01:27:37 pm »
Well, they say TDS is a mental disorder. From what I have seen, NeverTrumpers view Trump as a kind of Jesus figure. They place all the sins of the world on his shoulders including issues in their own personal lives which they themselves created.

While it is fun to watch them make up fantasy issues with Trump, it is also a little disturbing.

Trump created inflation.
Trump is responsible for the National Debt.
Trump is the reason Hamas attacked Israel.
Trump is why my car broke down.
Trump caused COVID.
Trump killed my dog.
Trump caused my divorce.

Whatever is wrong with the world, or America, or your own personal life, ... the answer is easy.
IT's ALL TRUMP's FAULT!


Ah yes.

 The old “TDS” reply when his supporters can’t provide an effective counterpoint. Trump claimed He inherited a deteriorating economy and built it into the greatest economy in history. That is his claim, not mine. But the data says otherwise


If you can outline why printing trillions of dollars and throwing it out into the economy to pay people to stay home does not eventually lead to inflation, I would be happy to read it. Many of us here were insisting that inflation would follow, but it fell on deaf ears from both the left and the Trump supporters

We are looking at nearly $2 trillion in deficits under Biden. That would be low hanging fruit for any challenger. Yet we hear little to nothing about it. Because Trump and his supporters know they have no credibility on that issue, either


« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 01:40:28 pm by LMAO »
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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2024, 01:41:14 pm »

The last three years of President Obama’s administration saw an increase of 8.1 million jobs and a 2 percentage-point drop in the overall unemployment rate, decreasing from 6.2% in 2014 to 4.9% by the end of 2016.
Government statistics are amorphous. An increase of 8.1 million jobs is because people had to take two jobs just to stay even with bills. The unemployment rate dropped because people were falling off the tail end. That is to say, once you have been tallied as 'unemployed' for a certain amount of time the Dept. of Labor will stop counting you.

As I said, all government numbers are cooked. But government provided numbers under any Democrat administration are nonsense. Do you seriously believe that inflation is really 4.5% under Biden? To say 'realized' inflation in terms of an average American family is +50% is an underestimation.

But whatever ... I have no dog in this fight. If you believe that Obama was 'all that', then fine with me. Vote for Obama. I don't care either way.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2024, 01:41:54 pm »
Government statistics are amorphous. An increase of 8.1 million jobs is because people had to take two jobs just to stay even with bills. The unemployment rate dropped because people were falling off the tail end. That is to say, once you have been tallied as 'unemployed' for a certain amount of time the Dept. of Labor will stop counting you.

As I said, all government numbers are cooked. But government provided numbers under any Democrat administration are nonsense. Do you seriously believe that inflation is really 4.5% under Biden? To say 'realized' inflation in terms of an average American family is +50% is an underestimation.

But whatever ... I have no dog in this fight. If you believe that Obama was 'all that', then fine with me. Vote for Obama. I don't care either way.

Links? 

And why do you believe that economic numbers are cooked under Obama and Biden but somehow were honest and thorough under Donald Trump? Because your argument is actually worse for Donald Trump
 
Why didn’t Obama cook the books to give himself incredible growth numbers instead of the anemic growth numbers we saw during his tenure?

Never voted for Obama. Never will. But facts can be stubborn things.


But you still haven’t explained why printing trillions of dollars and throwing it out in the economy doesn’t lead to inflation
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 06:22:20 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

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My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2024, 01:48:34 pm »
Prove me wrong. I’ll provide the data and you provide the counter data. I’m willing to have the debate.

It’s becoming clear that the reasons for voting for Donald Trump are rapidly deteriorating. And his supporters know it

https://money.com/trump-vs-obama-economy/

The last three years of President Obama’s administration saw an increase of 8.1 million jobs and a 2 percentage-point drop in the overall unemployment rate, decreasing from 6.2% in 2014 to 4.9% by the end of 2016. It's worth noting that when Obama took office in 2009, the country had recently lost around 8.6 million jobs due to the Great Recession.

Under Trump, the number of jobs increased by 6.55 million in his first three years, and unemployment dropped from 4.4% to 3.7%. At the same time, however, the growth rate of disposable income actually dropped, from 2.6% to 2.3%, according to the Moody's report






If you have any data to counter that I would be happy to read it

I don't have to prove anything. YOU have already done it for me! YOU have done NOTHING but sing the praises of Obama since the day you arrived here and THAT is all anyone should need to know.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2024, 01:53:24 pm »
I don't have to prove anything. YOU have already done it for me! YOU have done NOTHING but sing the praises of Obama since the day you arrived here and THAT is all anyone should need to know.

lol

I figured your reply would be something like this.

I’m not singing the praises of Obama. Just simply pointing out the false hood of the Trump claim that he inherited a deteriorating economy and built it into the greatest economy ever despite the data

Do you really wanna go into comparing the state of the economy from when he entered office to when he left office?  That’s not a fight you’re gonna win

Again, if you have any data to counter that I’m happy to read it

And if you can provide any evidence of me” singing the praises of Obama since the day I arrived”  post them

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/


As president, Trump saw 100 months of continuous U.S. monthly job gains end in February 2019 as the economy slowed. In 2020, job growth collapsed entirely when COVID-19 went from being a localized problem in Wuhan, China, to a global pandemic.


« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 01:59:18 pm by LMAO »
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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2024, 01:57:04 pm »
lol

I figured your reply would be something like this.

I’m not singing the praises of Obama. Just simply pointing out the false hood of the Trump claim that he inherited a deteriorating economy and built it into the greatest economy ever despite the data

Again, if you have any data at the counter that I’m happy to read it

And if you can provide any evidence of me” singing the praises of Obama since the day I arrived”  post them
I knew exactly that you were going to say that. I could have written your post for you, even before you responded. You are incredibly predictable.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2024, 01:57:27 pm »
lol

I figured your reply would be something like this.

I’m not singing the praises of Obama. Just simply pointing out the false hood of the Trump claim that he inherited a deteriorating economy and built it into the greatest economy ever despite the data

Do you really wanna go into comparing the state of the economy from when he entered office to when he left office?  That’s not a fight you’re gonna win

Again, if you have any data at the counter that I’m happy to read it

And if you can provide any evidence of me” singing the praises of Obama since the day I arrived”  post them

Quote
The last three years of President Obama’s administration saw an increase of 8.1 million jobs and a 2 percentage-point drop in the overall unemployment rate, decreasing from 6.2% in 2014 to 4.9% by the end of 2016. It's worth noting that when Obama took office in 2009, the country had recently lost around 8.6 million jobs due to the Great Recession.

YOU posted it within the last five minutes!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2024, 02:00:14 pm »
YOU posted it within the last five minutes!


Third time.

Provide a counterpoint and a link and I will be happy to read it.




« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:01:13 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2024, 02:02:12 pm »
I knew exactly that you were going to say that. I could have written your post for you, even before you responded. You are incredibly predictable.

Again

Provide me data to show me where my points are wrong.

Trump left office with the economy in a worst state than the one he inherited. It was also showing signs of trouble even pre-pandemic due to his trade war.

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/tariffs-trump-trade-war/#:~:text=Key%20Findings,increases%20in%20decades.


Since the tariffs were imposed, imports of affected goods have fallen, even before the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some of the biggest drops are the result of decreased trade with China, as affected imports decreased significantly after the tariffs. Reduced trade means fewer options for U.S. consumers and higher prices.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:43:12 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2024, 02:05:12 pm »

Third time.

Provide a counterpoint and a link and I will be happy to read it.

Counterpoint: Made up government BS data does NOT constitute proof of anything! Especially in light of the FACT that the way the statistics YOU quoted was altered under Obama!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2024, 02:07:06 pm »
I wouldn't think that inflation would lag the monetary expansion like that though and by that much. The pandemic happened in 2020 and we're still seeing bad inflation (although I think it peaked in 2022). But people's costs/rents/etc. are still far more expensive than previously now.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2024, 02:07:24 pm »
Counterpoint: Made up government BS data does NOT constitute proof of anything! Especially in light of the FACT that the way the statistics YOU quoted was altered under Obama!

Sigh

You’ve provided no evidence or any links or data to counter. All you’ve done is lash out so I guess this conversation is done.

Ping me when you have something and I will be more than happy to continue this conversation



We have had year after year of yearly GDP less than 3% in the last 20 years but have added a tremendous amount of debt since that time. Obviously, the path we are on is not working
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:12:52 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #66 on: June 11, 2024, 02:10:18 pm »
I wouldn't think that inflation would lag the monetary expansion like that though and by that much. The pandemic happened in 2020 and we're still seeing bad inflation (although I think it peaked in 2022). But people's costs/rents/etc. are still far more expensive than previously now.

If Biden and Congress  came into office and cut spending, and the Federal Reserve started serious tightening, inflation would have subsided

But they didn’t. Instead, we got the “Inflation Reduction Act”  that helped fuel it further. We now are running nearly $2 trillion deficits at a time when we’re supposedly in a decent economy and the interest alone on the debt is close to being equal we spend on military spending.

It doesn’t take an economics major to know where this is heading if we don’t reverse course. Americans will see a continuing decline in their standard of living


All of this would be open season for any Republican candidate running to make against the Biden administration. That opportunity is gone


« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:45:45 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2024, 02:19:45 pm »
The “cooking the books” charge is a charge  I’ve been hearing for over 20 years. It’s usually made by a President’s detractors.

I’m not denying that governments will fudge economic numbers. But it isn’t as great as people like to claim.

For example, Why didn’t the BHO administration give themselves 5 to 6% yearly GDP? Why isn’t the Biden administration reporting in inflation as one percent?  Why didn’t the Trump administration fudge the numbers to show that his trade war and the Covid lockdowns weren’t impacting the economy  as much as they did? Why didn’t the Trump administration cook jobs numbers to give himself a better record on that front than Obama?

You can only cook economic numbers so much

« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:28:52 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2024, 02:58:38 pm »
This is when Trump jumped the shark...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWvbLKgpQlM
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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2024, 03:04:22 pm »
I don't have to prove anything. YOU have already done it for me! YOU have done NOTHING but sing the praises of Obama since the day you arrived here and THAT is all anyone should need to know.

Nobody is praising Barack Obama.  You can look at pretty much any chart and see that his lame recovery continued into March 2020, when Trump participated in the national panic.  One could argue for extending his tax rates, but what spending reductions has Donald outlined so as to keep the debt from spiraling out of control?  I will be interested to see how well his economic pitch holds up during the debate.

Regardless of what preceded, you cannot deny that Trump's final 10 months were an overriding disaster.  He might have lost the election if he managed COVID like the Swedes and used the Insurrection Act to quell the riots.  It might have been emotionally unsatisfying to wait for the election results and accept whatever the courts decided, rather than declare it stolen on election night and invite a mob to the Capitol Building.  But such leadership would have left all of us in better shape ... and his 2024 campaign in a strong position.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 03:07:46 pm by cato potatoe »

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2024, 03:06:34 pm »
Obama care fundamentally changed the job market for a lot of people. Many people were stuck with 30 hour or less work weeks and needed two jobs to have "full time" employment. That changed the government job statistics so that they looked rosier than they were. More jobs but not more productivity. It also made making historical comparisons apples and oranges.

Quantitative easing - creating money out of thin air - started under Obama. That newly created money was counted as GDP even though nothing was produced. So now you have more "jobs" and more "productivity" making things look better. Both are lies. The books have been seriously cooked from just that alone. It gives the illusion of economic growth where little if any occurred.

You can bend economic laws for a while, but they always catch up to you. The longer you bend them the more painful the consequences.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 03:08:45 pm by DB »

Offline LMAO

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2024, 03:18:43 pm »
Obama care fundamentally changed the job market for a lot of people. Many people were stuck with 30 hour or less work weeks and needed two jobs to have "full time" employment. That changed the government job statistics so that they looked rosier than they were. More jobs but not more productivity. It also made making historical comparisons apples and oranges.

Quantitative easing - creating money out of thin air - started under Obama. That newly created money was counted as GDP even though nothing was produced. So now you have more "jobs" and more "productivity" making things look better. Both are lies. The books have been seriously cooked from just that alone. It gives the illusion of economic growth where little if any occurred.

You can bend economic laws for a while, but they always catch up to you. The longer you bend them the more painful the consequences.


There was a time in this country where yearly GDP, real GDP, was 5 to 6% easily. The last 20 years, we’ve struggled to even get close to 3% and we’re using debt to  prop more and more of that up

Now we’re being asked to continue the Obama/Trump/Biden, economic and fiscal models.

If one wants to make the case that the reason why Obama job numbers were better than Trump‘s was because of fudged government numbers,  the situation is still worse for Donald Trump’s tenure
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 04:49:17 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2024, 03:25:46 pm »

There was a time in this country where yearly GDP, real GDP, was 5 to 6% easily. The last 20 years, we’ve struggled to even get close to 3% and we’re using debt to  prop more and more of that up

Now we’re being asked to continue the Obama/Trump/Biden, economic and fiscal models.

Who in the last 50 years has had an exemplary economic model though?

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2024, 03:29:11 pm »
Trump's transgressions ...

1.) Running away from Covid instead of leaning into it.
2.) Post 2020 Election alleged criminal activity (false elector certification forms)

Trump was right on immigration, China, energy, and making other NATO countries live up to their financial obligations.

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Re: Calling All Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2024, 03:33:11 pm »
Trump's transgressions ...

1.) Running away from Covid instead of leaning into it.
2.) Post 2020 Election alleged criminal activity (false elector certification forms)

Trump was right on immigration, China, energy, and making other NATO countries live up to their financial obligations.

ROFL!  Look at you with all that 20/20 hindsight!   /s
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald