1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?

[mystery-ak]

April 17, 2024
1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
By Dov Tov

In 1938, it was dangerous to be a Jew anywhere in the world — especially Germany, where 60% of the Jewish people lived.

In 2024, it is dangerous to be a Jew anywhere in the world — especially Israel, where 74% live.

In 1938, most of the world hated Jews.

In 2024, most of the world hates Jews.

Nineteen thirty-eight was documented as the “Fateful Year” by the Nazis because it was the radicalization of the Germans policy on the Jewish people.  The beginning of the extermination of the Jewish people.  The Final Solution.  Nazi propaganda was born and thrived, from youths to adults.

In 2024, we hear the words “From the River and to the Sea,” which are Hamas propaganda — a chant the Palestinians use to call for the extermination of the Jews.  Hamas propaganda was born and thrives, indoctrination for youths and adults.

In 1938, the concept of Jewish ghettos was enacted — places where Jews were forced to reside under German captivity until their fate to live or die was decided.

In 2024, Jews have been taken into captivity as hostages until their fate to live or die is (and was) decided.

On October 5, 1938, Jewish passports were marked Jude (Jew in English).

more
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/04/1938_and_2024_whom_do_you_stand_with.html

[Right_in_Virginia]

Hey, Dov, are you trying to assert that what happened to innocent, individual Jews 80 years ago is equivalent to the questioning the consequences of the actions of a powerful and independent nation state?  If so, let's have *that* discussion ---- because 2024 is not 1938.

In 1938, Jews did not have a loud, clear and perpetual voice in the global arena.

In 1938, Jews did not have a "Nation State of the Jewish People".

In 1938, Jews did not have the benefit of a nuclear armed, multi-disciplinary military often operating without the interference of international law.

Let's have a discussion about the nation state of Israel and the consequences --- for good and for ill --- of the actions it chooses.  But, let's have it without using the horrors of the Holocaust as a sword and shield.

[Wingnut]

Why does RiV hate the Jews? 

[libertybele]

Why does RiV hate the Jews?

 

[AllThatJazzZ]

Hey, Dov, are you trying to assert that what happened to innocent, individual Jews 80 years ago is equivalent to the questioning the consequences of the actions of a powerful and independent nation state?  If so, let's have *that* discussion ---- because 2024 is not 1938.

In 1938, Jews did not have a loud, clear and perpetual voice in the global arena.

In 1938, Jews did not have a "Nation State of the Jewish People".

In 1938, Jews did not have the benefit of a nuclear armed, multi-disciplinary military often operating without the interference of international law.

Let's have a discussion about the nation state of Israel and the consequences --- for good and for ill --- of the actions it chooses.  But, let's have it without using the horrors of the Holocaust as a sword and shield.

Yeah, because it's not like anyone has such hideous intentions toward the Jews of today as they did back then. I mean, eliminating them by gassing them to death is much worse than running them into the sea (metaphorically speaking). They can always just swim away. 

Honestly, @Right_in_Virginia, I don't get what you're trying to say. What the hell difference does it make if they have advantages now that they didn't have in '38? There's still a good portion of the world that wants them dead, and there's a nearby nation that would love to find a way to make that happen.

For the record, I do and will always stand with Israel. The days are evil. Stay alert.

[goatprairie]

Hey, Dov, are you trying to assert that what happened to innocent, individual Jews 80 years ago is equivalent to the questioning the consequences of the actions of a powerful and independent nation state?  If so, let's have *that* discussion ---- because 2024 is not 1938.

In 1938, Jews did not have a loud, clear and perpetual voice in the global arena.

In 1938, Jews did not have a "Nation State of the Jewish People".

In 1938, Jews did not have the benefit of a nuclear armed, multi-disciplinary military often operating without the interference of international law.

Let's have a discussion about the nation state of Israel and the consequences --- for good and for ill --- of the actions it chooses.  But, let's have it without using the horrors of the Holocaust as a sword and shield.

What exactly do you have against the state of Israel? They're the only well-functioning democracy in the Mideast beset by a bevy a third world autocracies intent on destroying it. Despite its tiny size it's one of the world leaders in science, technology, and medicine.
They're a strong ally of the U.S.
So, what complaints do you have against it?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Honestly, @Right_in_Virginia, I don't get what you're trying to say. What the hell difference does it make if they have advantages now that they didn't have in '38?

@AllThatJazzZ   Fair question.  Let me try and explain it this way ----

Eastern European Jews didn't fight back in the 1930's/early 1940's because they had nothing to fight back with ---- no global voice, no leadership, no weapons.  Only once did they fight back, and that was during the rebellion in a Nazi open air prison.

Jews rectifying this 1938 disadvantage and gaining a voice, leadership and weapons were the essential goals of the original invocation of "never again".  The Jewish people have achieved all of this; but how best to use the success to secure peace, security and prosperity in 2024 and beyond remains elusive.  Harkening back to 1938 Germany is counterproductive ---- simply an emotional shield against questions few want to hear, nevermind answer.

I think it's time for an honest, difficult discussion.   

[roamer_1]

[...] Jews rectifying this 1938 disadvantage and gaining a voice, leadership and weapons were the essential goals of the original invocation of "never again".  The Jewish people have achieved all of this; [...]

Yet here they are again, again, even yet...
And you're on the wrong side of it.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Yet here they are again, again, even yet...

Is it becoming a self-fulfilled prophesy?

[roamer_1]

Is it becoming a self-fulfilled prophesy?

No. Just prophecy.

[Hoodat]

Hey, Dov, are you trying to assert that what happened to innocent, individual Jews 80 years ago is equivalent to the questioning the consequences of the actions of a powerful and independent nation state?

That is not at all what he is saying.  Not even remotely close.

But it is quite telling how you describe the current situation Israel is facing as 'consequences of their own actions'.  Blaming Israel for anti-Semitism?

[Hoodat]

Jews rectifying this 1938 disadvantage and gaining a voice, leadership and weapons were the essential goals of the original invocation of "never again".

Uh, no.  It was the Final Solution that was the impetus behind לעולם לא עוד.

(See:  Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka, Chelmno, Belzec)

The Jewish people have achieved all of this; but how best to use the success to secure peace, security and prosperity in 2024 and beyond remains elusive.

Peace?  Security?  The reason it remains elusive is because they are continuously being attacked.  Seventy-five years of being attacked.  Yet you seem to blame the Jews for that.  Kind of like Hitler blaming the Jews for losing WWI.

Harkening back to 1938 Germany is counterproductive -

Not counterproductive.  Only an inconvenience to deniers.

I think it's time for an honest, difficult discussion.

This is something you have proved incapable of doing.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Uh, no.  It was the Final Solution that was the impetus behind לעולם לא ע

There would have been no final solution if beginning in 1938 Eastern European Jews had had the apparatus to fight  ---- it would have stymied Hitler.

Peace?  Security?  The reason it remains elusive is because they are continuously being attacked.

Can we explore why?

[Right_in_Virginia]

No. Just prophecy.

Yours?

[Hoodat]

There would have been no final solution if beginning in 1938 Eastern European Jews had had the apparatus to fight and leave.

There would have been no Final Solution without inherent hatred of the Jewish people.

Can we explore why?

See above.

[roamer_1]

Yours?

Nah. Yah's. He called his shots over 6000 years ago.

[AllThatJazzZ]

@AllThatJazzZ   Fair question.  Let me try and explain it this way ----

Eastern European Jews didn't fight back in the 1930's/early 1940's because they had nothing to fight back with ---- no global voice, no leadership, no weapons.  Only once did they fight back, and that was during the rebellion in a Nazi open air prison.

Jews rectifying this 1938 disadvantage and gaining a voice, leadership and weapons were the essential goals of the original invocation of "never again".  The Jewish people have achieved all of this; but how best to use the success to secure peace, security and prosperity in 2024 and beyond remains elusive.  Harkening back to 1938 Germany is counterproductive ---- simply an emotional shield against questions few want to hear, nevermind answer.

I think it's time for an honest, difficult discussion.   

@Right_in_Virginia

Seriously, what difference does it make? What is it you're bugged about? 

It seems like you're not understanding the spiritual warfare that's taking place regarding Israel. The hatred and pursuit of the Jews will be unending until the Messiah – Whom, sadly, they didn't recognize in His first appearance – returns to complete their ultimate rescue. They will be viscerally and satanically despised until then. But not by me and millions of other Christians.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Hey, Dov, are you trying to assert that what happened to innocent, individual Jews 80 years ago is equivalent to the questioning the consequences of the actions of a powerful and independent nation state?

Now there's a nice whitewashing of the Holocaust.

It wasn't something that happened to "individual" Jews.  It was Jews collectively being targeted for extermination.   An effort to wipe them out completely as a people.

In 1938, Jews did not have a loud, clear and perpetual voice in the global arena.

The voice they have today is one that generally is shouted down internationally by widespread hatred of the Jews as people, usually (but not exclusively) by many of the nearly two billion Muslims worldwide.

In 1938, Jews did not have a "Nation State of the Jewish People".

If the thing that makes the situation for Jews better than it was in 1938 is them having a strong, independent state, then aren't they 100% correct in not budging on maintaining the integrity of that state?  1938 is still relevant because it shows what can happen to Jews when they don't have a secure, stable Jewish state, and if they don't defend it when it is attacked.  That's why their refusal to compromise on that is reasonable.

I've always been amused by people whose contribution to a debate is that they support "having honest discussions" as an alternative to the status quo, but refuse to get specific about what exactly substantive  positions they actually support.

[LMAO]

Now there's a nice whitewashing of the Holocaust.

Well, this may help explain some of that

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trumps-dinner-with-a-holocaust-denier-draws-rare-criticism-from-some-jewish-allies/amp/


I do not believe Trump himself is a  Holocaust denier. But how much of his base is?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well, this may help explain some of that

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trumps-dinner-with-a-holocaust-denier-draws-rare-criticism-from-some-jewish-allies/amp/


I do not believe Trump himself is a  Holocaust denier. But how much of his base is?

Trumpian/MAGA foreign policy truly scares me.   It's not based on any discernable principles other than 1) Trump's personal relationship with particular world leaders, and 2) neo-isolationism.

[deb]

Now there's a nice whitewashing of the Holocaust.

It wasn't something that happened to "individual" Jews.  It was Jews collectively being targeted for extermination.   An effort to wipe them out completely as a people.

Gah! I could hardly believe I read that.
My visit to Auschwitz a few years ago - the thousands of suitcases, purses, shoes, eyeglasses, crutches, pony tails, photos on display - sure didn’t seem like that was about individual Jews. It was a massive attempt at extermination. Nothing individual about it.

[LMAO]

Gah! I could hardly believe I read that.
My visit to Auschwitz a few years ago - the thousands of suitcases, purses, shoes, eyeglasses, crutches, pony tails, photos on display - sure didn’t seem like that was about individual Jews. It was a massive attempt at extermination. Nothing individual about it.

My son and his fiancé visited Auschwitz a few years ago also

Yeah, it was not about individual Jews. When someone makes a comment like that in describing the Holocaust, they’re letting their anti-Semitism slip

[DCPatriot]

My son and his fiancé visited Auschwitz a few years ago also

Yeah, it was not about individual Jews. When someone makes a comment like that in describing the Holocaust, they’re letting their anti-Semitism slip

I have a son who converted to Islam back in the '90s during his stint in the Army.  He was part of Operation Desert Shield and was stationed in Germany.

Because I have many dear friends who are Jewish and because of my circle-of-influence during the peak of my real estate career, I am a proud Zionist.

Every time my son calls me from Florida, which is almost daily, before we hang up, he'll say:  "Oh dad...one more thing...F**K ISRAEL!!"

And we both laugh.

That's the extent of our conversation about Jews and Hamas/Palestinians.  He knows better than to go deeper than that.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

My son and his fiancé visited Auschwitz a few years ago also

Yeah, it was not about individual Jews. When someone makes a comment like that in describing the Holocaust, they’re letting their anti-Semitism slip

I'm not Jewish, and I don't live in a Jewish community.  Didn't grow up with Jewish people, and I suppose my closest connection now is a prospective daughter in law.  But what has happened to Jewish people throughout much of history, and obviously the Holocaust was the culmination of that, is an embarrassment and shame to the entire human race.  And then the survivors -- who mostly bought land in the Mandate from willing Arab sellers -- built a first world nation in the middle of a bleep desert.  It's really inconceivable to me how so many people don't see any kind of moral obligation to help that state survive.

[mountaineer]

Why does RiV hate the Jews?

It's a mystery. Darn Joooos.