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1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
goatprairie:
--- Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on April 18, 2024, 12:48:26 am ---Hey, Dov, are you trying to assert that what happened to innocent, individual Jews 80 years ago is equivalent to the questioning the consequences of the actions of a powerful and independent nation state? If so, let's have *that* discussion ---- because 2024 is not 1938.
In 1938, Jews did not have a loud, clear and perpetual voice in the global arena.
In 1938, Jews did not have a "Nation State of the Jewish People".
In 1938, Jews did not have the benefit of a nuclear armed, multi-disciplinary military often operating without the interference of international law.
Let's have a discussion about the nation state of Israel and the consequences --- for good and for ill --- of the actions it chooses. But, let's have it without using the horrors of the Holocaust as a sword and shield.
--- End quote ---
What exactly do you have against the state of Israel? They're the only well-functioning democracy in the Mideast beset by a bevy a third world autocracies intent on destroying it. Despite its tiny size it's one of the world leaders in science, technology, and medicine.
They're a strong ally of the U.S.
So, what complaints do you have against it?
Right_in_Virginia:
--- Quote from: AllThatJazzZ on April 18, 2024, 01:09:27 am ---
Honestly, @Right_in_Virginia, I don't get what you're trying to say. What the hell difference does it make if they have advantages now that they didn't have in '38?
--- End quote ---
@AllThatJazzZ Fair question. Let me try and explain it this way ----
Eastern European Jews didn't fight back in the 1930's/early 1940's because they had nothing to fight back with ---- no global voice, no leadership, no weapons. Only once did they fight back, and that was during the rebellion in a Nazi open air prison.
Jews rectifying this 1938 disadvantage and gaining a voice, leadership and weapons were the essential goals of the original invocation of "never again". The Jewish people have achieved all of this; but how best to use the success to secure peace, security and prosperity in 2024 and beyond remains elusive. Harkening back to 1938 Germany is counterproductive ---- simply an emotional shield against questions few want to hear, nevermind answer.
I think it's time for an honest, difficult discussion. :shrug:
roamer_1:
--- Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on April 18, 2024, 02:34:45 am ---[...] Jews rectifying this 1938 disadvantage and gaining a voice, leadership and weapons were the essential goals of the original invocation of "never again". The Jewish people have achieved all of this; [...]
--- End quote ---
Yet here they are again, again, even yet...
And you're on the wrong side of it.
Right_in_Virginia:
--- Quote from: roamer_1 on April 18, 2024, 02:42:38 am ---Yet here they are again, again, even yet...
--- End quote ---
Is it becoming a self-fulfilled prophesy?
roamer_1:
--- Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on April 18, 2024, 02:46:47 am ---Is it becoming a self-fulfilled prophesy?
--- End quote ---
No. Just prophecy.
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