Author Topic: Just Look At Kansas  (Read 4961 times)

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2024, 11:49:57 pm »


In Kansas, the middle would be frank about how they were turned off by the name calling and head butting in politics.....and they withdrew. 

They might still vote, but if they did it was often against the loud mouthed obnoxious name calling fool (sound like someone you might have heard of ?) just like my friend did who knew nothing about Moran but was going to sure helk make it harder for Tiahart.




I know quite a few people who either didn’t vote for either of the presidential candidates in 2016 or 2020 or voted for the Democrat candidate for POTUS in both years but voted Republican down ticket


Despite Trump losing in 2020, people forget that Republicans gained 14 seats in the House of Representatives that year. in fact, if I recall correctly, not one Republican house incumbent lost their seat that year.



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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2024, 06:07:40 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Maybe you support lying,backstabbing, opportunistic little bitches,but I don't.

Maybe you need to sit down and discuss that with this guy:

...and the right keeps losing because they are TOO morally rigid and nobody  on the right wants to cooperate with  anyone else on the right because "they aren't moral enough for me".

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2024, 06:10:30 pm »

If far right politicians acted with some grace they'd win a lot more of the center. 

For some reason, pointing out that 100% true statement means you're a wimp, or a RINO, or some other perjorative of the day.  Of course, none of the insults change the essential truth of the statement.  Some voters don't care about things like civility, but some due.  And losing the votes of the latter just to amuse the former isn't smart.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2024, 06:57:03 pm »
For some reason, pointing out that 100% true statement means you're a wimp, or a RINO, or some other perjorative of the day.  Of course, none of the insults change the essential truth of the statement.  Some voters don't care about things like civility, but some due.  And losing the votes of the latter just to amuse the former isn't smart.

If I am not mistaken, I think we've been using "grace" for decades, and all it's gotten in return is increasing levels of chicanery.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2024, 09:03:56 pm »
If I am not mistaken, I think we've been using "grace" for decades, and all it's gotten in return is increasing levels of chicanery.

Grace??? You want to hear about grace?

Listen!

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/44-the-michael-berry-show-27764850/episode/steve-baker-is-a-journalist-who-164786786/
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2024, 02:24:25 am »
If I am not mistaken, I think we've been using "grace" for decades, and all it's gotten in return is increasing levels of chicanery.

Grace is not the same as abandoning conservative principles.  Reagan had grace but stuck to conservative principles, and Thatcher was the Iron Lady, not the Iron Handjob During A Play Skank.  In contrast, GHWB had grace, but went "squishy" at time.

Trump lacks grace, and also doesn't stick to any discernable principles.  I fail to see how that is a good approach for advancing conservatism.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2024, 04:27:23 pm »
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The biggest issue was that Conservatives and Moderates could not work together.  And when the moderates didn't feel included, they just hopped on board with the left and elected some real losers.

 Very similar to the California R Party: when conservatives are nominated for statewide offices, the Mo-o-o-o-ooooooooderates pick up their toys (= $$$) and go home; when a Mo-o-o-o-ooooooooderate gets nominated, they spend almost as much time with, "I am not one of those conservatives," messaging as actually disagreeing with their Dem opponent. Until Mo-o-o-o-ooooooooderates get over their hatred for conservatives the R Party will not climb out of irrelevancy in California politics.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2024, 06:48:47 pm »
Very similar to the California R Party: when conservatives are nominated for statewide offices, the Mo-o-o-o-ooooooooderates pick up their toys (= $$$) and go home; when a Mo-o-o-o-ooooooooderate gets nominated, they spend almost as much time with, "I am not one of those conservatives," messaging as actually disagreeing with their Dem opponent. Until Mo-o-o-o-ooooooooderates get over their hatred for conservatives the R Party will not climb out of irrelevancy in California politics.

I think you have it backwards.

I brought up this point because in Kansas you had hard line conservatives (one in particular) who said "We don't need them.  They need us".  My posting of the history of the Governor says that wasn't true and it still isn't.  They have a democratic governor.  She's not a crazy woman like Quincy which is why she'll be there for another term.

Instead of asking what they are doing wrong, conservatives there (of which I was one) tended to blame everything else but themselves.

Well, it's often the conservatives who say "my way or the highway" and you get what Kansas (and Arizona) got.....democratic governors.

We don't have to win on every issue.  Our message of Liberty, self-direction, and decentralization is a winning message.  Many moderates like much of that and they don't vote for democrats lightly.  But when they are made to feel they are in a war with the gascan rhetoric that whackjobs on the right spew.....they decide a democrat in office is better.

In Kansas, every political meeting I attended spent way to much time on abortion.  And it was the defining issue for many.  It really did get boring.

We just could not leave it alone.

And so taxes, other liberties, education, and tons of other things suffered because we just could not get used to the idea of not talking about it ALL THE TIME. 

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2024, 07:02:54 pm »
I recall sitting in a meeting where there was a fellow who worked for a right leaning group.  He was a pollster and a statistician. 

He made the comment "Conservatives are seen as being to intrusive into people's personal lives and into their bedrooms". 

This guy is reporting what he got from polling and survey information.  I trusted him.  I thought...well "That's interesting".

Several people came out of their seats and screamed at him "That's not true !". 

I was shocked.  What wasn't true.  That they didn't or that they were perceived that way ?

Here he is, providing feedback (people's perceptions) and people wanted to argue with him. 

I was astonished. 

Depending on who you read, the difference in divorce rates between Conservatives and Left-Wingers is the same.  Yet, it seems conservatives are want to spout something different.

Marriage is incredibly important to the stability of a nation.  And yet our divorce rate (collectively) is terrible. 

Seems like we need to be willing to take a hard look inside and be honest about what we are and about what we are not.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2024, 07:23:15 pm »
Grace is not the same as abandoning conservative principles.  Reagan had grace but stuck to conservative principles, and Thatcher was the Iron Lady, not the Iron Handjob During A Play Skank.  In contrast, GHWB had grace, but went "squishy" at time.

Trump lacks grace, and also doesn't stick to any discernable principles.  I fail to see how that is a good approach for advancing conservatism.

If by Grace, it means we are rolling over, that is true.  But rolling over isn't getting along. 

We have corrupt and inept people in Washington D.C. and we, in Arizona are doiong a great job of getting the other side elected by looking like a bunch of untrustworthy fools.

Who is talking about good principles in Arizona ?

Kari Lake ?  Record people without telling them and sharing it with others ?  I don't want any part of that kind of principle.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 07:24:06 pm by HikerGuy83 »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2024, 09:50:00 pm »
I recall sitting in a meeting where there was a fellow who worked for a right leaning group.  He was a pollster and a statistician. 

He made the comment "Conservatives are seen as being to intrusive into people's personal lives and into their bedrooms". 

This guy is reporting what he got from polling and survey information.  I trusted him.  I thought...well "That's interesting".

Several people came out of their seats and screamed at him "That's not true !". 

I was shocked.  What wasn't true.  That they didn't or that they were perceived that way ?

Here he is, providing feedback (people's perceptions) and people wanted to argue with him. 

I was astonished. 

Depending on who you read, the difference in divorce rates between Conservatives and Left-Wingers is the same.  Yet, it seems conservatives are want to spout something different.

Marriage is incredibly important to the stability of a nation.  And yet our divorce rate (collectively) is terrible. 

Seems like we need to be willing to take a hard look inside and be honest about what we are and about what we are not.

I agree.  There is a certain brand of conservative who gets angry whenever you mention to them facts that undercut the idea that conservatives can get what they want simply by "sticking to their guns".

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2024, 09:55:08 pm »
I agree.  There is a certain brand of conservative who gets angry whenever you mention to them facts that undercut the idea that conservatives can get what they want simply by "sticking to their guns".

Well they'll certainly *NOT* get what they want by *not* sticking to their guns... So what now?

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2024, 10:57:20 pm »
Well they'll certainly *NOT* get what they want by *not* sticking to their guns... So what now?

Sure you can.  You just can't get it all at once.  You have to know where to bend a bit to when necessary to build a majority coalition on an issue.  Because without a voting majority, you can't pass anything.

That's better than insisting on 100% purity and getting nothing because you don't have a majority.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2024, 11:01:55 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2024, 11:08:45 pm »
Sure you can.  You just can't get it all at once.  You have to know where to bend a bit to when necessary to build a majority coalition on an issue.  Because without a voting majority, you can't pass anything.

That's better than insisting on 100% purity and getting nothing because you don't have a majority.

Nah. Fifty years belies that. The only times that the ball moved right was when it was demanded.
I am all for compromise - But that is after the unmovable things are honored all around.
And if they are not, then there is no point in coalition.

And the 100% purity shtick is getting old.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2024, 05:03:18 am »
And the 100% purity shtick is getting old.

So is handing the governorship of a red state over to the other side on a routine basis. 

You don't have to agree to anything. 

You just don't have to come off as a raving lunatic or nominating someone who does.

Kobach...smart guy.  But's he's lost enough races and built enough baggage that he should have been through.  He really is 20 years past his prime.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2024, 05:04:46 am »
Well they'll certainly *NOT* get what they want by *not* sticking to their guns... So what now?

50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. 

And sticking to your guns doesn't mean you wave them around all the time and threaten anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2024, 06:00:36 am »
So is handing the governorship of a red state over to the other side on a routine basis. 

You don't have to agree to anything. 

You just don't have to come off as a raving lunatic or nominating someone who does.

Kobach...smart guy.  But's he's lost enough races and built enough baggage that he should have been through.  He really is 20 years past his prime.

Oh I dunno... I think it takes a while to re-jigger. I am willing to wait. If y'all shovel what ever's left of the McAin't types out of office down there, that'd be worth it for a little while.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2024, 06:03:39 am »
50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. 

And sticking to your guns doesn't mean you wave them around all the time and threaten anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Except that ain't how it works... And fifty years prove it. So stop eating sh*t sandwiches because they promise to feed you better on Tuesday... Tuesday never comes. You have to take it from them. Take it back.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2024, 08:01:05 pm »
Except that ain't how it works... And fifty years prove it. So stop eating sh*t sandwiches because they promise to feed you better on Tuesday... Tuesday never comes. You have to take it from them. Take it back.

Yes....we've done it your way and we've taken NOTHING BACK. 

I am not saying roll over.  I am saying just don't be such an idiot about your positions. 

if you like Laren Bobert (as a representative), then you are the one feasting on sandwiches made in a sewage plant.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2024, 08:04:33 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Maybe you support lying,backstabbing, opportunistic little bitches,but I don't.

Seeing how Trump turned on DeSantis long before DeSantis turned on Trump, that makes you the 'backstabbing-bitch' supporter.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Just Look At Kansas
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2024, 08:17:21 pm »
Yes....we've done it your way and we've taken NOTHING BACK.

Actually no... The TEA party was an historic movement. It overturned more seats than ever. Grass roots, ground up. Highly effective. Took a helluva lot back. 

Quote
I am not saying roll over.  I am saying just don't be such an idiot about your positions. 


Then you don't understand how political Conservatism works.

Quote
if you like Laren Bobert (as a representative), then you are the one feasting on sandwiches made in a sewage plant.

*shrugs* I don't dislike her. I'll take anyone with a 100% Liberty score. 98/93 Heritage.