Ford “Drastically” Cutting EV Lightning Workforce Hours

[Hoodat]

New solar panels are being developed that generate electricity at night via ambient temperature.  I do not know the exact details

You do realize what the word 'solar' indicates, right?

[Hoodat]

From the Forbes link you are about to post without reading first:

Do Solar Panels Work at Night?

Solar panels can still provide electricity to your house at night, but they cannot draw power in the nighttime. The more sciency explanation is the photovoltaic effect—when solar cells get activated from the sun—which is what causes the generation of electrical current. While they can’t draw power at night, they still work from stored energy.

[Smokin Joe]

Before embarrassing yourself further do some basic research.

The Ev industry is being subsidized because China, S Korea, Vietnam heavily subsides their own EV industry way more than what we do. If we do not subsidize our own companies , US manufacturers will be left behind in the Ev R&D and manufacturing race.

The same reason we are subsidizing our nations chip industry to the tune of $52 billion. If we do not Intel and such would go to the country that offers them the  most subsidies.

The reason why Boeing receives tens of billions of subsidies is because the French govt is heavily subsidizing Airbus. If they did not receive subsidies Boeing would not be able to compete.

In your little world you hate govt giving out money but you do not live in the real world.

Why solar and wind is subsidized.  Do you want to buy it for China or our own US companies?

If all of this is so efficient, clean, cheap and wonderful, why in the Hell are our tax dollars going to keep it afloat?  I can see subsidies for basic research, but not the production models.

Even where EVs are useful, the price point stops most, and used EVs aren't worth buying. A 20 year old ICE 'beater' will still get someone across town.. A 10 year old EV is a disposal problem, not an asset in any way.

Boeing (aircraft manufacture) and the chip industry are both matters of national security. In a way, EVs are, too, just not the way you seem to think. Take the hobbles off the oil, coal, and natural Gas industries, and we'll have plenty of energy, without pissing taxpayer dollars down Solyndra ratholes.

[catfish1957]

Solar panels still generate power on overcast days. I expect BD has battery backup to a degree.

They are still connected to the grid because BD says they are selling excess power back to the local electric company

New solar panels are being developed that generate electricity at night via ambient temperature.  I do not know the exact details

How about during massive hail storms.  Do you know how much it costs to dispose of the chromium and cadmium laden panels as Universal, hazardous waste?  Then add the logistics nightmare of having to fish these suckers out individually out of acres and acres of this crap.

Just a hint from someone who was in the environmental field for 40 years......   90% of the time adding green to any process is a sure fire receipe for the device or process to go to shit.

[banddag]

You do realize what the word 'solar' indicates, right?

Well, the Stanford professors are using the word solar for panels that generate electricity at night so I guess I can also. Hey how about rebutting me on the ivermectin/Japan thing.

Nighttime panels only create a small amount  but they are in  the early development phase.

https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/solar-panels-that-work-at-night-developed-at-stanford/

Scientist are also developing panels that create energy from the friction of rain hitting them.

[banddag]

How about during massive hail storms.  Do you know how much it costs to dispose of the chromium and cadmium laden panels as Universal, hazardous waste?  Then add the logistics nightmare of having to fish these suckers out individually out of acres and acres of this crap.

What about Deepwater horizon mess?

Exxon Valdez

The thousands of oil refinery and chemical plant explosions around the world over the years polluting and killing thousands

coal mine collapse around the world killing tens of thousands over the years

Chernobyl

strip mining that forever ruins the upper topsoil


Every industry has issues and nothing is 100% perfect. 

Solar panels are being created that will withstand the worst hail and also panels are in development stage that as soon as hail hits or detected via computer they will move vertically via small motors so the panels will be saved.

[catfish1957]

What about Deepwater horizon mess?

Exxon Valdez

The thousands of oil refinery and chemical plant explosions around the world over the years polluting and killing thousands

coal mine collapse around the world killing tens of thousands over the years

Chernobyl

strip mining that forever ruins the upper topsoil


Every industry has issues and nothing is 100% perfect. 

Comparing the disasters of a 10 year old industry versus one that has been around 120? And comparing the scale between the 2?  I knew you were a closet enviro-whacko.

Not to add the fact, your faction is wanting to take us back to the 19th century. Do a little research, of what will happen if fossil fuels are eliminated, and then come back and discuss.

[banddag]

Comparing the disasters of a 10 year old industry versus one that has been around 120? And comparing the scale between the 2?  I knew you were a closet enviro-whacko.

Not to add the fact, your faction is wanting to take us back to the 19th century. Do a little research, of what will happen if fossil fuels are eliminated, and then come back and discuss.

Fossil fuels will never be eliminated. FF are needed for manufacturing  goods as you know. No one is saying so except the very far left wackos.  The US govt has said natural gas will be needed for the next 100 years. Heck,  biden is giving millions to coal industry to develop new ways to use coal.

You should know that large corporations control the agenda in this country.  Why Amazon and WM were allowed to stay open during the shutdown and small mom and pop stores had to close.

Record oil and gas production under biden in 2023 and that is continuing in 2024.  But wait I thought the fear porn sites said biden would destroy  the oil  and gas industry. lmao.  Record amount of new wells pumped and  fracked,  Biden may tell his greenie base he is going to get rid of FF but at the same time he looks over and winks at the gas and oil co';

https://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/news/2023/06/cushing-ok-chosen-as-new-site-for-56-b-oil-refinery-project/

US Energy admin. US Natural gas will continue to grow for decades to come.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61863

2022 11 new natural gas plants
2023 10 new natural gas plants
24-25 20 new will be coming online

But herp derp biden is shutting down the industry. lmao

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=60663

[DB]

Well, the Stanford professors are using the word solar for panels that generate electricity at night so I guess I can also. Hey how about rebutting me on the ivermectin/Japan thing.

Nighttime panels only create a small amount  but they are in  the early development phase.

https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/solar-panels-that-work-at-night-developed-at-stanford/

Scientist are also developing panels that create energy from the friction of rain hitting them.

LOL!

0.05 watts per square meter... Or about 0.6 watt/hours for a 12 hour night... That's about 0.012 CENTS (not dollars) of electricity or a whopping $0.043 a YEAR worth of electricity... That's with nearly 11 square feet of panel... While that's an interesting novelty it has no practical use. The return time on investment is infinity... It will never pay for itself, ever...

[catfish1957]

I think you need a little primer on how these things work.  I secured dozens of air, water, and waste projects, and you have to realize that this results of this process is a laggiing indicator.

Fossil fuels will never be eliminated. FF are needed for manufacturing  goods as you know. No one is saying so except the very far left wackos.  The US govt has said natural gas will be needed for the next 100 years. Heck,  biden is giving millions to coal industry to develop new ways to use coal.

You should know that large corporations control the agenda in this country.  Why Amazon and WM were allowed to stay open during the shutdown and small mom and pop stores had to close.

Record oil and gas production under biden in 2023 and that is continuing in 2024.  But wait I thought the fear porn sites said biden would destroy  the oil  and gas industry. lmao.  Record amount of new wells pumped and  fracked,  Biden may tell his greenie base he is going to get rid of FF but at the same time he looks over and winks at the gas and oil co';

https://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/news/2023/06/cushing-ok-chosen-as-new-site-for-56-b-oil-refinery-project/

US Energy admin. US Natural gas will continue to grow for decades to come.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61863

2022 11 new natural gas plants
2023 10 new natural gas plants
24-25 20 new will be coming online

But herp derp biden is shutting down the industry. lmao

Wrong.  These were pernits predominantly secured during the Trump administrations. Want to know how many permits were prepared and adminstrately secured singularly during the Biden admin?  ZERO

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpalmer/2024/01/30/what-the-presidents-permit-pause-means-for-the-golden-age-of-liquefied-natural-gas/?sh=35413a893d2f

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-permit-crackdown-poses-new-hurdles-proposed-lng-projects-analysts-2023-05-11/

Pedo Joe has very specifically stated that it is his intent to destroy the hydrocarbon industry.  Your silly contention that post approved permits prior to his admin is a sign of endorsement is a joke.  I worked the industry in the most finite detail in this area, and can unequivocally say that since his primary 1 first goal of killing the XL pipeline.........    Pedo Joe has done nothing for the benefit of the Fossil Fuel Industry

[banddag]

LOL!

0.05 watts per square meter... Or about 0.6 watt/hours for a 12 hour night... That's about 0.012 CENTS (not dollars) of electricity or a whopping $0.043 a YEAR worth of electricity... That's with nearly 11 square feet of panel... While that's an interesting novelty it has no practical use. The return time on investment is infinity... It will never pay for itself, ever...

I said it is in the early development phase. No one is installing them yet. Nearly every new invention or progress starts with very small steps.

[catfish1957]

LOL!

0.05 watts per square meter... Or about 0.6 watt/hours for a 12 hour night... That's about 0.012 CENTS (not dollars) of electricity or a whopping $0.043 a YEAR worth of electricity... That's with nearly 11 square feet of panel... While that's an interesting novelty it has no practical use. The return time on investment is infinity... It will never pay for itself, ever...

I do a good job typically of securing articles and tech papers around the enviro-scam, but one that I have sadly lost is the one where it was shown and proven, that when you take every facet of the "btu" in the process of making and using energy, that absolutely none of the green alternatives have more efficency than traditonal fossil fuels, and nuclear.

I still look for it occasionally, and it was written in the 2013-2015 timeframe, and academia based.   If anyone else is interested.

[DB]

I said it is in the early development phase. No one is installing them yet. Nearly every new invention or progress starts with very small steps.

There is no "yet".

The laws of physics define how much energy can be radiated from these panels and the thermal difference converted to electricity. And you want to know something even funnier, cloud cover will prevent them from working... So they aren't even reliable at night...

[catfish1957]

I said it is in the early development phase. No one is installing them yet. Nearly every new invention or progress starts with very small steps.

Do you have it next to that file with the water fueled engine?   

[Bigun]

I do a good job typically of securing articles and tech papers around the enviro-scam, but one that I have sadly lost is the one where it was shown and proven, that when you take every facet of the "btu" in the process of making and using energy, that absolutely none of the green alternatives have more efficency than traditonal fossil fuels, and nuclear.

I still look for it occasionally, and it was written in the 2013-2015 timeframe, and academia based.   If anyone else is interested.

FACT! It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn-based ethanol when ALL inputs are considered.

And that's our ticket to energy independence!  ROFLMAO!!!

[catfish1957]

FACT! It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn-based ethanol when ALL inputs are considered.

And that's our ticket to energy independence!  ROFLMAO!!!

This comes to mind every time I see or hear an enviro-whacko

[Bigun]

This comes to mind every time I see or hear an enviro-whacko

 

[banddag]

Yes, many of the permits were started during Trump but not all.

There were numerous gas wells permits that were  not put together in my county until 2022/2023.

We own a  piece of property that is receiving gas royalties . The grid for this land  was first put together in mid  2022.  We were notified via certified mail at that time that a gas company was wanting to drill a  well under our grid. We ended up signing with Ascent.

The well permit was approved by our state  in Feb or March  2023.  3 years after trump.

They installed a well right away and we started receiving royalty checks  October 2023.  That was when Ukraine was in full mode, NG was record high and were receiving $4000-4500 PER ACRE every month.  Some of that was due to NG prices and of course a new well produces a lot at first.  Now it is down  to on average $350-400 per month per acre.

You can nitpick all you want and that is all you have. My point is every conservative fear porn site said biden would destroy the fossil fuel industry. Just as Trump said not once but twice on Twitter and Truth Social and hundreds of times at rallys and such  that biden would destroy the stock market yet it is at record highs also.

Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.

[Bigun]

Yes, many of the permits were started during Trump but not all.

There were numerous gas wells permits that were  not put together in my county until 2022/2023.

We own a  piece of property that is receiving gas royalties . The grid for this land  was first put together in mid  2022.  We were notified via certified mail at that time that a gas company was wanting to drill a  well under our grid. We ended up signing with Ascent.

The well permit was approved by our state  in Feb or March  2023.  3 years after trump.

They installed a well right away and we started receiving royalty checks  October 2023.  That was when Ukraine was in full mode, NG was record high and were receiving $4000-4500 PER ACRE every month.  Some of that was due to NG prices and of course a new well produces a lot at first.  Now it is down  to on average $350-400 per month per acre.

You can nitpick all you want and that is all you have. My point is every conservative fear porn site said biden would destroy the fossil fuel industry. Just as Trump said not once but twice on Twitter and Truth Social and hundreds of times at rallys and such  that biden would destroy the stock market yet it is at record highs also.

Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.

I'm VERY glad to not be invested in the party paying you royalty checks as your above statement is a strong indictment of their production practices.

[catfish1957]

Yes, many of the permits were started during Trump but not all.

There were numerous gas wells permits that were  not put together in my county until 2022/2023.

We own a  piece of property that is receiving gas royalties . The grid for this land  was first put together in mid  2022.  We were notified via certified mail at that time that a gas company was wanting to drill a  well under our grid. We ended up signing with Ascent.

The well permit was approved by our state  in Feb or March  2023.  3 years after trump.

Come on.... at least don't obfuscate your positions.  Big difference in permitting a well versus a manufacturing site. Most of those happen at the state regulatory level anyway. 

They installed a well right away and we started receiving royalty checks  October 2023.  That was when Ukraine was in full mode, NG was record high and were receiving $4000-4500 PER ACRE every month.  Some of that was due to NG prices and of course a new well produces a lot at first.  Now it is down  to on average $350-400 per month per acre.

Again...  thank your nasty dirty oil company (/s), and your state regulatory agencies which has jurisdictional control over individual wells.

You can nitpick all you want and that is all you have. My point is every conservative fear porn site said biden would destroy the fossil fuel industry. Just as Trump said not once but twice on Twitter and Truth Social and hundreds of times at rallys and such  that biden would destroy the stock market yet it is at record highs also.

I don't have enough time to give an ECON lesson on stupid market exuberance.  I have said many times that this market is at least 50% over sold.  The fact you don't realize that years of QE 1,2,3, etc.  And bogus infrastructure legislative initiatives are the only reason these markets are this high.  Deficit spending in a kick the can method is all that is keeping this house of cards upright.    Second, the slight perceived cooling of Biden's destructive path is slightly augmented by the point he wants to be re-elelcted.  If he wins, watch for a double strenght resumption of Biden's anti-FF policies.

Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.

Bull shit.  Work the inflation adjusted numbers, and you will find that ROCE is pretty close cyclically to any other time that the price of oil is over say an arbitraty $60/bbl.  Then get back with me around how Big Tech has captialized itself propelled itself at least 5X of that of oil.  Befiore bitching about big oil profits, get back with me on those.

[Bigun]

I don't have enough time to give an ECON lesson on stupid market exuberance...

I have plenty of time but refuse to waste it trying to educate a useless troll.

[banddag]

I have plenty of time but refuse to waste it trying to educate a useless troll.

Show me where biden destroyed the fossil fuel industry and the stock market as the right claimed he would.

Trump says Biden would 'destroy' oil industry

NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com › video › trump-says-biden-...
Oct 22, 2020 — Joe Biden said he would transition away from the oil industry to renewable energy because of significant pollution and President Trump said


Trump: If Biden is elected, 'the stock market will crash'

NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com › video › trump-if-biden-is-e...
Oct 22, 2020 — Challenging financial experts' analysis, President Donald Trump claimed the stock market would crash if Joe Biden was elected president ...

[DB]

Show me where biden destroyed the fossil fuel industry and the stock market as the right claimed he would.

Trump says Biden would 'destroy' oil industry

NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com › video › trump-says-biden-...
Oct 22, 2020 — Joe Biden said he would transition away from the oil industry to renewable energy because of significant pollution and President Trump said


Trump: If Biden is elected, 'the stock market will crash'

NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com › video › trump-if-biden-is-e...
Oct 22, 2020 — Challenging financial experts' analysis, President Donald Trump claimed the stock market would crash if Joe Biden was elected president ...

Just a quick note... High inflation increases stock values in terms of dollars. In other words, the less a dollar is worth the more of them it takes to buy something, including stock.

So stocks going up relative to the dollar isn't necessarily the good news you think it is.

[Bigun]

Just a quick note... High inflation increases stock values in terms of dollars. In other words, the less a dollar is worth the more of them it takes to buy something, including stock.

So stocks going up relative to the dollar isn't necessarily the good news you think it is.

Why do you insist on trying to educate this fool? @DB

[DB]

Why do you insist on trying to educate this fool? @DB

You have good point...

I'll stand down.