Ford “Drastically” Cutting EV Lightning Workforce Hours

[banddag]

Here in Arizona I've seen ZERO electric yard keeping tools used by the professional landscapers. And they are all over the place. They're all gas powered and for good reason. They are much lighter and more powerful while taking little time to refuel.

The only way they get professionals to use electric is by government outlawing the alternative. Hardly a sales pitch on why they are superior...

Commercial grade line has only been very recently introduced. Not going to change overnight. Stihl said in press releases all commercial with be battery powered in future years due to ease of use.
Again watch youtube videos of real lawn  care co's trying lout the battery stuff. Nearly  all are very impressed.

[the OlLine Rebel]

You spend  too much time on FR with those low IQ idiots. Natural gas production, drilling, fracking under biden is at record levels in 2023 and 2024 is going to be even greater. Gas stoves will never be outlawed and natural gas will be used for the next 100 years.  Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden. Bet you won't see that at FR

Biden may tell the greenies he is going to outlaw fossil fuels but he is winking at the fossil fuel industry at the same time. Large co;s control the agenda in this country not the politcians.

No, mayors and all kinds of Dem politicians state they want to stop NG.

20 years ago, heck 5, nobody talked about trannies.  Now it’s all the rage and in our faces.  Tell me again how they won’t make this happen?

[DB]

Commercial grade line has only been very recently introduced. Not going to change overnight. Stihl said in press releases all commercial with be battery powered in future years due to ease of use.
Again watch youtube videos of real lawn  care co's trying lout the battery stuff. Nearly  all are very impressed.

I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.

[DB]

No, mayors and all kinds of Dem politicians state they want to stop NG.

20 years ago, heck 5, nobody talked about trannies.  Now it’s all the rage and in our faces.  Tell me again how they won’t make this happen?

Multiple cities have banned natural gas with more jumping on the bandwagon. Don't have to be with low IQ people to know that.

[Kamaji]

You spend  too much time on FR with those low IQ idiots. Natural gas production, drilling, fracking under biden is at record levels in 2023 and 2024 is going to be even greater. Gas stoves will never be outlawed and natural gas will be used for the next 100 years.  Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden. Bet you won't see that at FR

Biden may tell the greenies he is going to outlaw fossil fuels but he is winking at the fossil fuel industry at the same time. Large co;s control the agenda in this country not the politcians.

At least you're a marginally entertaining f**king idiot.

[Kamaji]

Multiple cities have banned natural gas with more jumping on the bandwagon. Don't have to be with low IQ people to know that.

Don't tell the f**king idiot.  He'll tell you it's all a conspiracy between Trump and "big business".

[banddag]

I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.

Industry is for electrical products because they are cheaper to make. Head of GM said the typical EV uses a 1/3 of labor and 1/2 the parts of a gas vehicle. Follow the money as Rush always aid. It's all about maximizing profit and minimizing cost.
Then recent strikes was mainly about EV's because the unions saw EV's  would eliminate much of their jobs,

[mystery-ak]

Stop the insults please...

[libertybele]

When water intrusion and salt don't corrode batteries or cause them to catch fire perhaps they'll be more applicable to a greater part of the country -- until then, EV's are in the long run are futile, not dependable and more costly.

[banddag]

Don't tell the f**king idiot.  He'll tell you it's all a conspiracy between Trump and "big business".

I do research from all sides and talk with industry heads. The amount of misinformation regarding EV's/solar in conservative sites is frightening.
Someone is always  posting blogs from the Heartland Inst.  on FR bashing ev's and renewables.

You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's?  They received 875k from Exxon. I pick apart their blogs all the time.

If you only get your info from rw sites you will become ignorant and stupid. SRS, you need to read sources from the left, middle and right to be informed. Michell Malkin said it best. . She said 70% of the people out there with blogs and such (Bongino/Carlson) are liberals or moderates in real life but making money of gullible people is a huge money maker.

But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.

[banddag]

Stop the insults please...

I apologize. Will stop it.

[mystery-ak]

I apologize. Will stop it.

That wasn't meant for you....

[deb]

You’ll have to pry my diesel-guzzling Grasshopper ZTR from my cold, dead hands before I ever use an electric riding mower.

[DCPatriot]

That wasn't meant for you....

 

[catfish1957]

I do research from all sides and talk with industry heads. The amount of misinformation regarding EV's/solar in conservative sites is frightening.
Someone is always  posting blogs from the Heartland Inst.  on FR bashing ev's and renewables.

You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's?  They received 875k from Exxon. I pick apart their blogs all the time.

If you only get your info from rw sites you will become ignorant and stupid. SRS, you need to read sources from the left, middle and right to be informed. Michell Malkin said it best. . She said 70% of the people out there with blogs and such (Bongino/Carlson) are liberals or moderates in real life but making money of gullible people is a huge money maker.

But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.

I was an environmental manager at a petrochemical plant for one of the largest companies  and can honestly with 100% certainty that 99% of the garbage you've spewed tonight is utter bullshit.  I've dealt with this issue 40 years.  But your head is so far up your ass, you aren't worth my time explaining it. Which I have done sucessfully for decades.

Your gullibility in buying into the scam is a work of art by itself. 

[Kamaji]

I do research from all sides and talk with industry heads. The amount of misinformation regarding EV's/solar in conservative sites is frightening.
Someone is always  posting blogs from the Heartland Inst.  on FR bashing ev's and renewables.

You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's?  They received 875k from Exxon. I pick apart their blogs all the time.

If you only get your info from rw sites you will become ignorant and stupid. SRS, you need to read sources from the left, middle and right to be informed. Michell Malkin said it best. . She said 70% of the people out there with blogs and such (Bongino/Carlson) are liberals or moderates in real life but making money of gullible people is a huge money maker.

But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.

So you say, and yet you come up with the most ridiculous conclusions.

For example, B&D is getting some nice virtue-signalling subsidies for the 15 acres of former farmland it just covered with solar panels, but the excess juice from that wasted land is hardly going to scale to cover even a percentage of the overall U.S. transportation fleet.  Nor are 177 natural gas plants - most of which are most likely replacing current coal and NG plants which have been forced out of operation by green-fascists in the EPA.

In order to scale EVs the way unicorn-fart huffers think is possible, the U.S. alone would need at least 700 full-size nuclear power plants.  And that is not happening.  So no, EVs are not going to replace ICEs because they have some natural superiority - we will simply end up making ground transportation once again the purview of the rich and government officialdom, because there won't be enough electricity available.

And that doesn't even begin to get us into the environmental damage those sorts of solar panel idiocies will cause, along with the environmental damage that wind farms are already creating.

So no, you don't do actual research, else you'd have factored those things into account.  Instead, you parrot the liberal virtue-signalling party line.

Go away, and take your political propaganda with you.

[Kamaji]

I'll call a pig with lipstick a pig with lipstick.  Sorry if that offends.

[libertybele]

[catfish1957]

You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's?  They received 875k from Exxon

Citation please..... 

[banddag]

Fifteen acres that could be used to grow food. What an absolute waste of land and those promoting going green are tying to convince people that they're saving the planet.  What a crock.

2 million acres are lost every year in the US to new home construction and for building industrial buildings.  15 acres is nothing and B&D  is selling back excess power and making $400k per year  These companies are doing this not for virtue signaling but it makes economic sense. The B&D plant was built on farmland itself. The plant that makes products there made them in China. Do you want the jobs or not?

If you feel so bad about farmland being used up, year down your home that was most likely farmland at one time and plant corn on your lot

[Hoodat]

I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.

Word.

[DB]

Industry is for electrical products because they are cheaper to make. Head of GM said the typical EV uses a 1/3 of labor and 1/2 the parts of a gas vehicle. Follow the money as Rush always aid. It's all about maximizing profit and minimizing cost.
Then recent strikes was mainly about EV's because the unions saw EV's  would eliminate much of their jobs,

If that were even remotely true it wouldn't require government to twist everyone's arms to do it. People would be flocking to lower cost better solutions. It simply isn't true.

[Hoodat]

My BIL is a retired 3 tar general and is now VP of a major defense contactor. All future military vehicles. is going EV  because the advantages are superior over diesel on the battlefield.

Your BIL is saying what he needs to say to keep his job and keep those defense dept dollars flowing.  But what he says about EVs being superior to diesel is complete bullshit.  How far can an M1 go on batteries?  And how do you charge it 30 miles into enemy territory with no power lines in sight?  A fuel truck can make it there in an hour.  Repairing power lines and bringing in a charging platform would take weeks.  Not only that, every electric vehicle in an entire battle zone can be taken out with one EMP device.

If your BIL is really saying this, then he should be ashamed of himself for wasting US taxpayer dollars on such a poorly thought out policy.  Why not start out with the Air Force first to see how viable electric planes and helicopters work out.

[Hoodat]

Industry is for electrical products because they are cheaper to make. Head of GM said the typical EV uses a 1/3 of labor and 1/2 the parts of a gas vehicle. Follow the money as Rush always said.

Yes, let's follow the money.  Even with 1/3 the labor cost and 1/2 the parts, electric vehicles cost considerably more even with hefty government subsidies.  Which is why ICE vehicles make more economic sense, at least to those who buy them.

[Kamaji]

2 million acres are lost every year in the US to new home construction and for building industrial buildings.  15 acres is nothing and B&D  is selling back excess power and making $400k per year  These companies are doing this not for virtue signaling but it makes economic sense. The B&D plant was built on farmland itself. The plant that makes products there made them in China. Do you want the jobs or not?

If you feel so bad about farmland being used up, year down your home that was most likely farmland at one time and plant corn on your lot

15 acres to generate a paltry 4.3 MW is a lot, particularly when the heat island effect is taken into account.  It's a really environmentally unfriendly way to generate electricity.

[Kamaji]

Leach fields in just one lithium mine:



As the accompanying article states:  "Although pretty from a distance, lithium mines are environmentally damaging and use a lot water and energy."

Source:  https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25333710-200-lithium-fields-beautiful-from-the-air-trouble-on-the-ground/

But hey, it's not coming out of a tailpipe on the EV, so it must be "environmentally friendly".

"F**king idiot" is a perfectly sober sobriquet for the sort that believes that nonsense.

[Hoodat]

Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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[Hoodat]

Leach fields in just one lithium mine:

And for what?  Lithium generates zero electricity.

[banddag]

I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.

Every US industry is subsidized by the US govt including agriculture and big oil. We subsidize solar and electric because every other country in the world is subsidizing their own solar and EV industry. If we did not our own domestic solar and EV  companies would  be left behind . The reason why we gave $52 billion to the chip is industry to build new plants and R&D centers in the US .If we did it Intel said they would have gobe to another country.

[Kamaji]

Then there's the cobalt.  An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source:  https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref

And here's how all that cobalt is mined:




Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

[Hoodat]

But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.

Would that be the new CEO?  Or is the the one they just let go?

[Hoodat]

Every US industry is subsidized by the US govt including agriculture and big oil.

Which is wrong.

[Hoodat]

Then there's the cobalt.  An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source:  https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref

And here's how all that cobalt is mined:

Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

Not to mention that hydrogen tanks can be built from composites that cost pennies of what batteries cost.  And they don't require child labor from third world countries either, not to mention the environmental impact.  But liberals would rather spend your tax money on helping Chinese battery manufacturers make money instead of making electric cars viable by using hydrogen to store electricity instead.  Idiots.

[banddag]

Leach fields in just one lithium mine:



As the accompanying article states:  "Although pretty from a distance, lithium mines are environmentally damaging and use a lot water and energy."


But hey, it's not coming out of a tailpipe on the EV, so it must be "environmentally friendly".

"F**king idiot" is a perfectly sober sobriquet for the sort that believes that nonsense.

You do know almost all the Ev co's are going to solid state batteries- Toyota, Nissan, Ford, BMW, Kia which uses no lithium. . Tesla is still  sticking with lithium for now. The largest Ev solid state battery plant in the world was just built in Massachusetts, another one is being built in KY by Ford, BMW and Kia who are going into together.

[Hoodat]

As leftist idiot keep pushing battery subsidies in the US, Toyota is selling these cars starting at $50K.

They use hydrogen as a battery.

https://www.toyota.com/mirai/

[banddag]

And here's how all that cobalt is mined:



Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

1. Lithium is not mined in Africa. 90% of Teslas lithium comes from Australia.

2. China and Africa just signed a pact to stop using child labor in the cobalt mines.

3. You do know Cobalt is used in every single battery powered item in your house? Computers, tv's, cell phones, ice cars, smoke detectors and your wifes 12" mandingo vibrator powered by 4 d cells.

[banddag]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is why you need to do research from all sources and not just wingnut sites that would find fault even if biden told every family it was a new law to buy an AR-15  and he is going to eliminate all federal IRS taxes.

Coal is booming under biden-exported to India and China. W.Va mines are shutting down because they cannot find enough miners.


Coal jobs dropped under Trump.
https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/us-coal-jobs-down-24-from-the-start-of-trump-administration-to-latest-quarter-61386963


Under biden

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-thermal-coal-exports-hit-5-year-highs-top-5-billion-2023-2024-02-01/

[Hoodat]

The largest Ev solid state battery plant in the world was just built in Massachusetts

That would be Factorial Energy.  They still use lithium in their solid state batteries.



https://factorialenergy.com/technology/

[Hoodat]

This is why you need to do research from all sources and not just wingnut sites that would find fault even if biden told every family it was a new law to buy an AR-15  and he is going to eliminate all federal IRS taxes.

I did research just before posting that.  https://minesafety.wv.gov/historical-statistical-data/production-of-coal-and-coke-1863-2013/

Now, lets examine your site.  First this chart:



A typical example of non-rational persuasion.  Notice the downward trend, purposed to give visual reinforcement to the claim made.  Except that downward trend happened under Obama, not Trump.  Once Trump took over, coal jobs stabilized up until Covid when everyone was forced out of work.  And notice also that this chart is nationwide, and not specific to West Virginia which was your original claim.  So maybe you should give your left wing sites a bit more scrutiny before pushing such nonsensical propaganda.

[banddag]

That would be Factorial Energy.  They still use lithium in their solid state batteries.

Some but isn't the  lithium a metal  anode instead of Gell Lithium -the type that catches fire in regular lithium batteries?

[Hoodat]

Some but isn't the  lithium a metal  anode instead of Gell Lithium -the type that catches fire in regular lithium batteries?

Yes it is.  But it's still lithium.  The point made was that lithium mining is both highly exploitive of third world workers and also environmentally damaging.  And solid state batteries do nothing to reduce that.

[banddag]

The point made was that lithium mining is both highly exploitive of third world workers and also environmentally damaging.  And solid state batteries do nothing to reduce that.

Lithium is not produced in third world countries. Australia and Chile produce 76% of the world daily needs and the rest is from Argentina, Bolivia, China and Canada.
The new SS batteries use a very small amount of lithium.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-worlds-largest-lithium-producers/

The ev indsutry changes and improves every year

[Hoodat]

Under biden

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-thermal-coal-exports-hit-5-year-highs-top-5-billion-2023-2024-02-01/

This isn't an article on coal jobs.  It is an article on coal exports, boasting of a 5-year high (meaning it was higher when Trump was in office).  The reason coal exports are up now is because this regime is stopping coal from being used to generate power here.  So a huge chunk of this coal is being shipped to India so that they can flood the planet's atmosphere with greenhouse gases there so that idiot liberals here can feel emotionally superior about themselves.  Oh, and of course none of this has a thing to do with over all coal mine employment in West Virginia which your article failed to address.  But it did provide a nice photo of a mine truck in Wyoming.

Maybe it is you that needs to do more research before posting.

[banddag]

I did research just before posting that.  https://minesafety.wv.gov/historical-statistical-data/production-of-coal-and-coke-1863-2013/

Now, lets examine your site.  First this chart:



A typical example of non-rational persuasion.  Notice the downward trend, purposed to give visual reinforcement to the claim made.  Except that downward trend happened under Obama, not Trump.  Once Trump took over, coal jobs stabilized up until Covid when everyone was forced out of work.  And notice also that this chart is nationwide, and not specific to West Virginia which was your original claim.  So maybe you should give your left wing sites a bit more scrutiny before pushing such nonsensical propaganda.

Coal jobs have been lost due to natural gas. W.Va currently has 13k coal miners and 73k in the Wva oil and gas industry. NG is cheaper, cleaner burning and virtually no transportation cost after the pipelines are laid.
Coal is an antiquated fuel that needs to go away

[Hoodat]

Lithium is not produced in third world countries. Australia and Chile produce 76% of the world daily needs and the rest is from Argentina, Bolivia, China and Canada.
The new SS batteries use a very small amount of lithium.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-worlds-largest-lithium-producers/

The ev indsutry changes and improves every year

What a relief.  As long as it is Chile and Bolivia getting hit with the environmental impact, everything must be OK.  But I digress.  Let's assume for a moment that your way is economically superior.  Then why can't you do it without subsidies?  Why do you force working people to pay for things (at the point of a gun) that only benefit the wealthy?

[banddag]

What a relief.  As long as it is Chile and Bolivia getting hit with the environmental impact, everything must be OK.  But I digress.  Let's assume for a moment that your way is economically superior.  Then why can't you do it without subsidies?  Why do you force working people to pay for things (at the point of a gun) that only benefit the wealthy?

Ha ha I live in a part of the country where hundreds of thousands of acres of was strip mined for coal leaving the ground worthless even after reclaiming. can't build on the soft ground for 40 years or your house will sink into the ground. Ruined wells for good. Longwall mining under  homes -house drops 3 feet on one end-that is were they remove the coal pillars and the ground above drops down 3-5 feet.

Again, as long as other countries are subsidizing their industries if we do not our companies will be at a huge disadvantage.

The ag subsidies do not benefit only the  wealthy. Ag subsidies keep  food prices stable (not looking at inflation)
Without ag subsidies if one year there was a bumper crop of say corn, the  next year farmers would not plant that crop because of the low price leading to a shortage the third  year. One year Milk would be $5 the next year 25 cents. Food would be a roller coaster ride.

The Intel Plant in Columbus Ohio will be 10-14k jobs when done paying on average $135k per year. Almpost all subsidized under the chips act.

[Hoodat]

Ha ha I live in a part of the country where hundreds of thousands of acres of was strip mined for coal leaving the ground worthless even after reclaiming. can't build on the soft ground for 40 years or your house will sink into the ground. Ruined wells for good. Longwall mining under  homes -house drops 3 feet on one end-that is were they remove the coal pillars and the ground above drops down 3-5 feet.

I will assume you are from Kentucky.  I grew up in a neighboring coal state.

Again, as long as other countries are subsidizing their industries if we do not our companies will be at a huge disadvantage.

I could not disagree more.  Government needs to stay the hell out instead of doing its usual failure at picking winners and losers.

The ag subsidies do not benefit only the  wealthy. Ag subsidies keep  food prices stable (not looking at inflation)
Without ag subsidies if one year there was a bumper crop of say corn, the  next year farmers would not plant that crop because of the low price leading to a shortage the third  year. One year Milk would be $5 the next year 25 cents. Food would be a roller coaster ride.

I am more interested in the number of people who are harmed by ag subsidies.

The Intel Plant in Columbus Ohio will be 10-14k jobs when done paying on average $135k per year. Almpost all subsidized under the chips act.

How did those Solyndra subsidies turn out?  And when did Intel become so broke that they needed the government to build a plant for them?  Intel can afford their own plant.  And any plant requiring subsidies from the government isn't really viable to begin with.  Check back in five years and we'll see if that plant still has 10-14k jobs paying $135k.  I will bet you dollars to donuts that they will not.  In fact, I would be surprised if that plant is even open five years from now.

[DB]

I will assume you are from Kentucky.  I grew up in a neighboring coal state.


I could not disagree more.  Government needs to stay the hell out instead of doing its usual failure at picking winners and losers.


I am more interested in the number of people who are harmed by ag subsidies.


How did those Solyndra subsidies turn out?  And when did Intel become so broke that they needed the government to build a plant for them?  Intel can afford their own plant.  And any plant requiring subsidies from the government isn't really viable to begin with.  Check back in five years and we'll see if that plant still has 10-14k jobs paying $135k.  I will bet you dollars to donuts that they will not.  In fact, I would be surprised if that plant is even open five years from now.

The sudden burst of chip maker subsidies is due to China threatening Taiwan. They're building fabrication facilities 24/7 in Arizona and other places to move critical high-end chip making out of Taiwan as quickly as possible.

[Smokin Joe]

When water intrusion and salt don't corrode batteries or cause them to catch fire perhaps they'll be more applicable to a greater part of the country -- until then, EV's are in the long run are futile, not dependable and more costly.

I was wondering where all those batteries are going to be stored--in the cold shed, or in the house or attached garage? At least I can run the gas gadgets dry and store them for the winter, and keep the fuel (stabilized) in a non-heated outbuilding that would be relatively cheap to replace.

And no one has mentioned the expense of having those extra batteries to swap out. Just with hand tools, which are handy, and of which I have a nice assortment, two batteries cost nearly as much as (or more than) the tools. That's for hand tools, I would think a 6 hour battery for a zero turn mower would be significantly more.

[mountaineer]

CNN’s Weir: New Biden Coal Rules ‘The End of Coal as a Power Source’
BREITBART
Ian Hanchett26 Apr 2024

On Thursday’s broadcast of “CNN News Central,” CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir stated that the newly finalized set of rules on coal power plants announced by the Biden administration “essentially signals the end of coal as a power source in the United States.”

Because there currently isn’t any technology capable of complying with all the rules, “And so, it will essentially push most of the remaining 200 or so coal-fired plants out of business.”

Weir said, “Well, John, this is really, really significant. It essentially signals the end of coal as a power source in the United States. Right now, four new rule changes, they also include cutting down on the neurotoxin mercury, which comes out of these power plants, the coal ash that gets spilled into waterways, other wastewater, but the big one is this new rule that would require coal-fired plants to reduce 90% of their planet-cooking pollution. And right now, there’s not really a technology capable of doing that. The industry has never really taken carbon capture and sequestration seriously in the United States. And so, it will essentially push most of the remaining 200 or so coal-fired plants out of business. About a quarter of them are scheduled to retire anyway.”