Ford “Drastically” Cutting EV Lightning Workforce Hours

[Kamaji]

Leach fields in just one lithium mine:



As the accompanying article states:  "Although pretty from a distance, lithium mines are environmentally damaging and use a lot water and energy."

Source:  https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25333710-200-lithium-fields-beautiful-from-the-air-trouble-on-the-ground/

But hey, it's not coming out of a tailpipe on the EV, so it must be "environmentally friendly".

"F**king idiot" is a perfectly sober sobriquet for the sort that believes that nonsense.

[Hoodat]

Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden.

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[Hoodat]

Leach fields in just one lithium mine:

And for what?  Lithium generates zero electricity.

[banddag]

I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.

Every US industry is subsidized by the US govt including agriculture and big oil. We subsidize solar and electric because every other country in the world is subsidizing their own solar and EV industry. If we did not our own domestic solar and EV  companies would  be left behind . The reason why we gave $52 billion to the chip is industry to build new plants and R&D centers in the US .If we did it Intel said they would have gobe to another country.

[Kamaji]

Then there's the cobalt.  An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source:  https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref

And here's how all that cobalt is mined:




Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

[Hoodat]

But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.

Would that be the new CEO?  Or is the the one they just let go?

[Hoodat]

Every US industry is subsidized by the US govt including agriculture and big oil.

Which is wrong.

[Hoodat]

Then there's the cobalt.  An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source:  https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref

And here's how all that cobalt is mined:

Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

Not to mention that hydrogen tanks can be built from composites that cost pennies of what batteries cost.  And they don't require child labor from third world countries either, not to mention the environmental impact.  But liberals would rather spend your tax money on helping Chinese battery manufacturers make money instead of making electric cars viable by using hydrogen to store electricity instead.  Idiots.

[banddag]

Leach fields in just one lithium mine:



As the accompanying article states:  "Although pretty from a distance, lithium mines are environmentally damaging and use a lot water and energy."


But hey, it's not coming out of a tailpipe on the EV, so it must be "environmentally friendly".

"F**king idiot" is a perfectly sober sobriquet for the sort that believes that nonsense.

You do know almost all the Ev co's are going to solid state batteries- Toyota, Nissan, Ford, BMW, Kia which uses no lithium. . Tesla is still  sticking with lithium for now. The largest Ev solid state battery plant in the world was just built in Massachusetts, another one is being built in KY by Ford, BMW and Kia who are going into together.

[Hoodat]

As leftist idiot keep pushing battery subsidies in the US, Toyota is selling these cars starting at $50K.

They use hydrogen as a battery.

https://www.toyota.com/mirai/

[banddag]

And here's how all that cobalt is mined:



Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

1. Lithium is not mined in Africa. 90% of Teslas lithium comes from Australia.

2. China and Africa just signed a pact to stop using child labor in the cobalt mines.

3. You do know Cobalt is used in every single battery powered item in your house? Computers, tv's, cell phones, ice cars, smoke detectors and your wifes 12" mandingo vibrator powered by 4 d cells.

[banddag]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is why you need to do research from all sources and not just wingnut sites that would find fault even if biden told every family it was a new law to buy an AR-15  and he is going to eliminate all federal IRS taxes.

Coal is booming under biden-exported to India and China. W.Va mines are shutting down because they cannot find enough miners.


Coal jobs dropped under Trump.
https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/us-coal-jobs-down-24-from-the-start-of-trump-administration-to-latest-quarter-61386963


Under biden

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-thermal-coal-exports-hit-5-year-highs-top-5-billion-2023-2024-02-01/

[Hoodat]

The largest Ev solid state battery plant in the world was just built in Massachusetts

That would be Factorial Energy.  They still use lithium in their solid state batteries.



https://factorialenergy.com/technology/

[Hoodat]

This is why you need to do research from all sources and not just wingnut sites that would find fault even if biden told every family it was a new law to buy an AR-15  and he is going to eliminate all federal IRS taxes.

I did research just before posting that.  https://minesafety.wv.gov/historical-statistical-data/production-of-coal-and-coke-1863-2013/

Now, lets examine your site.  First this chart:



A typical example of non-rational persuasion.  Notice the downward trend, purposed to give visual reinforcement to the claim made.  Except that downward trend happened under Obama, not Trump.  Once Trump took over, coal jobs stabilized up until Covid when everyone was forced out of work.  And notice also that this chart is nationwide, and not specific to West Virginia which was your original claim.  So maybe you should give your left wing sites a bit more scrutiny before pushing such nonsensical propaganda.

[banddag]

That would be Factorial Energy.  They still use lithium in their solid state batteries.

Some but isn't the  lithium a metal  anode instead of Gell Lithium -the type that catches fire in regular lithium batteries?

[Hoodat]

Some but isn't the  lithium a metal  anode instead of Gell Lithium -the type that catches fire in regular lithium batteries?

Yes it is.  But it's still lithium.  The point made was that lithium mining is both highly exploitive of third world workers and also environmentally damaging.  And solid state batteries do nothing to reduce that.

[banddag]

The point made was that lithium mining is both highly exploitive of third world workers and also environmentally damaging.  And solid state batteries do nothing to reduce that.

Lithium is not produced in third world countries. Australia and Chile produce 76% of the world daily needs and the rest is from Argentina, Bolivia, China and Canada.
The new SS batteries use a very small amount of lithium.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-worlds-largest-lithium-producers/

The ev indsutry changes and improves every year

[Hoodat]

Under biden

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-thermal-coal-exports-hit-5-year-highs-top-5-billion-2023-2024-02-01/

This isn't an article on coal jobs.  It is an article on coal exports, boasting of a 5-year high (meaning it was higher when Trump was in office).  The reason coal exports are up now is because this regime is stopping coal from being used to generate power here.  So a huge chunk of this coal is being shipped to India so that they can flood the planet's atmosphere with greenhouse gases there so that idiot liberals here can feel emotionally superior about themselves.  Oh, and of course none of this has a thing to do with over all coal mine employment in West Virginia which your article failed to address.  But it did provide a nice photo of a mine truck in Wyoming.

Maybe it is you that needs to do more research before posting.

[banddag]

I did research just before posting that.  https://minesafety.wv.gov/historical-statistical-data/production-of-coal-and-coke-1863-2013/

Now, lets examine your site.  First this chart:



A typical example of non-rational persuasion.  Notice the downward trend, purposed to give visual reinforcement to the claim made.  Except that downward trend happened under Obama, not Trump.  Once Trump took over, coal jobs stabilized up until Covid when everyone was forced out of work.  And notice also that this chart is nationwide, and not specific to West Virginia which was your original claim.  So maybe you should give your left wing sites a bit more scrutiny before pushing such nonsensical propaganda.

Coal jobs have been lost due to natural gas. W.Va currently has 13k coal miners and 73k in the Wva oil and gas industry. NG is cheaper, cleaner burning and virtually no transportation cost after the pipelines are laid.
Coal is an antiquated fuel that needs to go away

[Hoodat]

Lithium is not produced in third world countries. Australia and Chile produce 76% of the world daily needs and the rest is from Argentina, Bolivia, China and Canada.
The new SS batteries use a very small amount of lithium.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-worlds-largest-lithium-producers/

The ev indsutry changes and improves every year

What a relief.  As long as it is Chile and Bolivia getting hit with the environmental impact, everything must be OK.  But I digress.  Let's assume for a moment that your way is economically superior.  Then why can't you do it without subsidies?  Why do you force working people to pay for things (at the point of a gun) that only benefit the wealthy?

[banddag]

What a relief.  As long as it is Chile and Bolivia getting hit with the environmental impact, everything must be OK.  But I digress.  Let's assume for a moment that your way is economically superior.  Then why can't you do it without subsidies?  Why do you force working people to pay for things (at the point of a gun) that only benefit the wealthy?

Ha ha I live in a part of the country where hundreds of thousands of acres of was strip mined for coal leaving the ground worthless even after reclaiming. can't build on the soft ground for 40 years or your house will sink into the ground. Ruined wells for good. Longwall mining under  homes -house drops 3 feet on one end-that is were they remove the coal pillars and the ground above drops down 3-5 feet.

Again, as long as other countries are subsidizing their industries if we do not our companies will be at a huge disadvantage.

The ag subsidies do not benefit only the  wealthy. Ag subsidies keep  food prices stable (not looking at inflation)
Without ag subsidies if one year there was a bumper crop of say corn, the  next year farmers would not plant that crop because of the low price leading to a shortage the third  year. One year Milk would be $5 the next year 25 cents. Food would be a roller coaster ride.

The Intel Plant in Columbus Ohio will be 10-14k jobs when done paying on average $135k per year. Almpost all subsidized under the chips act.

[Hoodat]

Ha ha I live in a part of the country where hundreds of thousands of acres of was strip mined for coal leaving the ground worthless even after reclaiming. can't build on the soft ground for 40 years or your house will sink into the ground. Ruined wells for good. Longwall mining under  homes -house drops 3 feet on one end-that is were they remove the coal pillars and the ground above drops down 3-5 feet.

I will assume you are from Kentucky.  I grew up in a neighboring coal state.

Again, as long as other countries are subsidizing their industries if we do not our companies will be at a huge disadvantage.

I could not disagree more.  Government needs to stay the hell out instead of doing its usual failure at picking winners and losers.

The ag subsidies do not benefit only the  wealthy. Ag subsidies keep  food prices stable (not looking at inflation)
Without ag subsidies if one year there was a bumper crop of say corn, the  next year farmers would not plant that crop because of the low price leading to a shortage the third  year. One year Milk would be $5 the next year 25 cents. Food would be a roller coaster ride.

I am more interested in the number of people who are harmed by ag subsidies.

The Intel Plant in Columbus Ohio will be 10-14k jobs when done paying on average $135k per year. Almpost all subsidized under the chips act.

How did those Solyndra subsidies turn out?  And when did Intel become so broke that they needed the government to build a plant for them?  Intel can afford their own plant.  And any plant requiring subsidies from the government isn't really viable to begin with.  Check back in five years and we'll see if that plant still has 10-14k jobs paying $135k.  I will bet you dollars to donuts that they will not.  In fact, I would be surprised if that plant is even open five years from now.

[DB]

I will assume you are from Kentucky.  I grew up in a neighboring coal state.


I could not disagree more.  Government needs to stay the hell out instead of doing its usual failure at picking winners and losers.


I am more interested in the number of people who are harmed by ag subsidies.


How did those Solyndra subsidies turn out?  And when did Intel become so broke that they needed the government to build a plant for them?  Intel can afford their own plant.  And any plant requiring subsidies from the government isn't really viable to begin with.  Check back in five years and we'll see if that plant still has 10-14k jobs paying $135k.  I will bet you dollars to donuts that they will not.  In fact, I would be surprised if that plant is even open five years from now.

The sudden burst of chip maker subsidies is due to China threatening Taiwan. They're building fabrication facilities 24/7 in Arizona and other places to move critical high-end chip making out of Taiwan as quickly as possible.

[Smokin Joe]

When water intrusion and salt don't corrode batteries or cause them to catch fire perhaps they'll be more applicable to a greater part of the country -- until then, EV's are in the long run are futile, not dependable and more costly.

I was wondering where all those batteries are going to be stored--in the cold shed, or in the house or attached garage? At least I can run the gas gadgets dry and store them for the winter, and keep the fuel (stabilized) in a non-heated outbuilding that would be relatively cheap to replace.

And no one has mentioned the expense of having those extra batteries to swap out. Just with hand tools, which are handy, and of which I have a nice assortment, two batteries cost nearly as much as (or more than) the tools. That's for hand tools, I would think a 6 hour battery for a zero turn mower would be significantly more.

[mountaineer]

CNN’s Weir: New Biden Coal Rules ‘The End of Coal as a Power Source’
BREITBART
Ian Hanchett26 Apr 2024

On Thursday’s broadcast of “CNN News Central,” CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir stated that the newly finalized set of rules on coal power plants announced by the Biden administration “essentially signals the end of coal as a power source in the United States.”

Because there currently isn’t any technology capable of complying with all the rules, “And so, it will essentially push most of the remaining 200 or so coal-fired plants out of business.”

Weir said, “Well, John, this is really, really significant. It essentially signals the end of coal as a power source in the United States. Right now, four new rule changes, they also include cutting down on the neurotoxin mercury, which comes out of these power plants, the coal ash that gets spilled into waterways, other wastewater, but the big one is this new rule that would require coal-fired plants to reduce 90% of their planet-cooking pollution. And right now, there’s not really a technology capable of doing that. The industry has never really taken carbon capture and sequestration seriously in the United States. And so, it will essentially push most of the remaining 200 or so coal-fired plants out of business. About a quarter of them are scheduled to retire anyway.”