Ford “Drastically” Cutting EV Lightning Workforce Hours

[banddag]

There are lots of battery claims. They're a dime a dozen... They also claim you can charge it in 6 minutes. With what? To charge a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes takes a million watts... Or over 4,000 amps at 240 V... And that's with 100% efficiency (no losses)...

Toyota claims their 2026 ev's can charge in 10 minutes.

Battery technology is changing so rapidly companies cannot keep up

[DB]

Toyota claims their 2026 ev's can charge in 10 minutes.

Battery technology is changing so rapidly companies cannot keep up

That's nice. Charge it with what???

[libertybele]

Not sure what climate you live in, but up at 48 degrees North, that just isn't going to happen. We'll keep the old ICE vehicles running until you get an EV that has at least 8" ground clearance, 4WD, the ability to carry a ton or better over 300 miles bucking snowdrifts while keeping the cabin 90 degrees or more warmer than the outside air (just at 50-60 degrees F inside), and has enough additional reserve to heat the cabin for 12 hours in case something should go wrong.

We don't buy vehicles for summertime play, but for the worst conditions we might face, and it IS a matter of life and death.

Same here; it could be a matter of life and death as well in FL. The climate here isn't EV friendly; summer rainy season, tropical storms, streets flooding, and hurricanes.  I can't imagine waiting in line in bumper to bumper traffic trying to get out of FL and no EV station in sight. Secondly salt water (even the sea air) is not friendly to the batteries. People with EV's have been warned to stay out of areas that may see storm surge. That accounts for most of Florida's coastal areas and a lot of inland areas.  No, Florida weather, water and EV's just don't mix.

[Hoodat]

To charge a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes takes a million watts... Or over 4,000 amps at 240 V... And that's with 100% efficiency (no losses)...

Damn you and your physics!

[libertybele]

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/auto-motor/floridas-electric-vehicles-are-catching-fire-after-hurricane-ian-426452.aspx

[Hoodat]

They have battery backup I believe.

Fifteen acres of solar panels to power that plant.  Still not sure how they power it at night, but it would take a gargantuan amount of batteries to source 480 VAC for basic plant operation.  I suspect they have worked out a tradeoff with normal power generation where they supply excess power to the grid during the day and recover that power back at night.  Which means that even though they can claim to net zero, they are still dependent on nighttime power generation from other sources. 

And fifteen acres of land?   That's a heck of an impact on nature.  Fifteen acres no longer available for anything else, including CO₂ removal by a typical forest.



https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/05/solar-project-powers-all-of-black-deckers-kentucky-factory/

[DB]

Fifteen acres of solar panels to power that plant.  Still not sure how they power it at night, but it would take a gargantuan amount of batteries to source 480 VAC for basic plant operation.  I suspect they have worked out a tradeoff with normal power generation where they supply excess power to the grid during the day and recover that power back at night.  Which means that even though they can claim to net zero, they are still dependent on nighttime power generation from other sources. 

And fifteen acres of land?   That's a heck of an impact on nature.  Fifteen acres no longer available for anything else, including CO₂ removal by a typical forest.



https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/05/solar-project-powers-all-of-black-deckers-kentucky-factory/

And what happens if there's a hailstorm? They just close the doors for awhile?

[libertybele]

Fifteen acres of solar panels to power that plant.  Still not sure how they power it at night, but it would take a gargantuan amount of batteries to source 480 VAC for basic plant operation.  I suspect they have worked out a tradeoff with normal power generation where they supply excess power to the grid during the day and recover that power back at night.  Which means that even though they can claim to net zero, they are still dependent on nighttime power generation from other sources. 

And fifteen acres of land?   That's a heck of an impact on nature.  Fifteen acres no longer available for anything else, including CO₂ removal by a typical forest.



https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/05/solar-project-powers-all-of-black-deckers-kentucky-factory/

Fifteen acres that could be used to grow food. What an absolute waste of land and those promoting going green are tying to convince people that they're saving the planet.  What a crock.

[deb]

SoCal is a favorable environment for the physical operation of EVs. Add in virtue signalling, and I can see why there are a lot of them there.

Where I live in North Dakota, It is hard to think of a much more hostile environment to the physical operation of an EV. Cold, with -30 not unusual in winter, frequent high winds, snow, etc. You can't just drive, you have to defrost the windows and heat the cabin, too.

It is common for larger towns to be 100-130 miles apart, and trips to medical specialists commonly mean a 250 mile trip--one way, bad enough when you are not well in an ICE powered vehicle, I can't imagine waiting on the vehicle to charge, too.

In summer, with our continental climate, we hit the triple digits, too. Annual temperature range can easily be 130 degrees, and I have seen it near 170.

For those who wonder why I am not a supporter of EVs and the gasoline powered vehicle 'phase out', it is that sooner or later, with the way things are going, Some bloody twit (or an assemblage thereof) is going to try to take my vehicles away, one way or another, claiming that MY vehicle is causing global warming, which is supposed the "climate change" they are bandying about.

I spent my career locating and identifying a reliable, proven (for over 100 years) motor fuel source. Now people from elsewhere, often two thousand miles away, want to dictate what I can or cannot use from places where the weather here is simply unimaginable.

If you can grow citrus trees, pecans, avocados, or even Magnolias, maybe an EV will work for you.

Those species will freeze here, dead in the first winter. EVs don't work well here.
Sales and registrations prove this. From: https://www.badgerinstitute.org/numbers/electric-vehicles-as-a-percentage-of-all-registered-vehicles/




Aside from a very few folks, (likely city dwellers who use them in town, and a few owned by a pizza franchise--two of which died this winter), we just aren't willing to bet our lives on the technology. We know what works.

Honestly, we’d be better off with a team of draft horses.

[Kamaji]

177 new natural gas power plants are being built right now across the country. 2 are going up near me. One is already online. Georgis just added a new reactor and it will supply all their needs.

US factories are going solar. The new Black & Decker plant in KY is powered 100% by solar and they  are selling off the excess.

I did say at least 700 full-size nuclear plants, didn't I?  177 natural gas plants isn't going to cut it.

And neither will solar, or any other falsely-labeled "renewable".

WADR, why are you people so f**king abysmally stupid?  Serious question.

[banddag]

I did say at least 700 full-size nuclear plants, didn't I?  177 natural gas plants isn't going to cut it.

And neither will solar, or any other falsely-labeled "renewable".

WADR, why are you people so f**king abysmally stupid?  Serious question.

I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035.  Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.

I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns  and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.

Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
 
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.

This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the  most ignorant stance of all time.

[DB]

I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035.  Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.

I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns  and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.

Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
 
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.

This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the  most ignorant stance of all time.

Subsidies is why so many are doing it.  Everyone else is paying for it.

Have any engineers as friends? Go talk to one.

[DB]

I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035.  Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.

I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns  and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.

Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
 
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.

This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the  most ignorant stance of all time.

You never addressed charging a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes. It literally takes over a million watts to do. It would take 21 houses with modern 200 amp power panels at full capacity all at the same time to do it.

[the OlLine Rebel]

Subsidies is why so many are doing it.  Everyone else is paying for it.

Have any engineers as friends? Go talk to one.

I never specialized in any of these types of things, but I was an engineer.

Never mind a real consumer using these things.

I’m telling you, electric will never “cut” with mowers and other “small” engine devices requiring more literal power and torque than exactly those VERY small items mentioned - leaf blowers, weed whacker etc.  great for that, but don’t try to do a whole yard with heavy grass on an electric charge.

And how are commercial cutters going to charge those machines constantly on a run over the whole day?  Generator now, on their trailers?  LOL. tell customers they need to plug in some?  Head back to base and recharge and switch machines?

[banddag]

You never addressed charging a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes. It literally takes over a million watts to do. It would take 21 houses with modern 200 amp power panels at full capacity all at the same time to do it.

My BIL is a retired 3 tar general and is now VP of a major defense contactor. All future military vehicles. is going EV  because the advantages are superior over diesel on the battlefield. He cannot tell me what they are working on but he did say current batteries are 3rd generations and they are working on 12 the generation batteries.
He did say they are perfecting batteries that can be changed out on the battlefield in 2 minutes. The zero turn commercial grade mowers a I saw on youtube  are like this. Individual batteries with handles that pull out and  replaced in seconds.
He was at one of the largest defense trade shows in the world in Qatar. Every defense contractor is moving forward with EV's.

I never did say this would happen overnight. ..but ev's are here to stay.

Again if you drove one you would see why. The ride/response etc  is incredible.

[Kamaji]

Wow.  Who invited the f**king idiot to the party?

[Kamaji]

I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035.  Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.

I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns  and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.

Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
 
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.

This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the  most ignorant stance of all time.

The Black & Decker reference is amusing.  Do you know how much ground they used to build that solar panel farm?  15 acres.  To generate 4.3MW of electricity.

Do you know how scalable that is?

No, I didn't think you did.  F**king idiots like you never do.

For comparison's sake, NYC consumes about 5,500 MW of electricity currently.  That means that, using the B&D plant as a model, in order to run NYC - Just NYC, not any other municipality - would require about 20,000 acres devoted to solar panels.  That's about half the size of Washington, D.C.

[the OlLine Rebel]

EV's are not going anywhere and will take over. I drove a Tesla and it was an incredible drive. How many people after buying a battery powered drill still use their plug in drill. Not many. I went to my local Pilot truck stop this morning to get gas and they are putting in 25 ev chargers.

Ford Lightenings was a mistake to begin with but do not blame EV's over them.

First off, you’re comparing 2 small items to each other.

2nd, both are “electric”.

3rd, people will use corded if it’s easy access.  Batteries for these are now quite good, but they do require charging and lose power to handle those torques.  (My hubby uses 2 batteries so he switches them rather than wait for charging.). Plus, batteries are still big and cause a handling difficulty such as balance by their bulk.

Don’t scoff.  I made complaints like this about CDs 20 years ago and people looked at me funny like how could I say that?  Where are CDs now?  Those same people are scoffing at how old fashioned they are with my same critiques.

Not that I expect battery power tools to go away, but they are legitimate complaints - except batteries get better so long-term usage is possible without balance problems.

[DB]

My BIL is a retired 3 tar general and is now VP of a major defense contactor. All future military vehicles. is going EV  because the advantages are superior over diesel on the battlefield. He cannot tell me what they are working on but he did say current batteries are 3rd generations and they are working on 12 the generation batteries.
He did say they are perfecting batteries that can be changed out on the battlefield in 2 minutes. The zero turn commercial grade mowers a I saw on youtube  are like this. Individual batteries with handles that pull out and  replaced in seconds.
He was at one of the largest defense trade shows in the world in Qatar. Every defense contractor is moving forward with EV's.

I never did say this would happen overnight. ..but ev's are here to stay.

Again if you drove one you would see why. The ride/response etc  is incredible.

So the short answer is you have no idea regarding the question I asked you. It will just be magic that charges those batteries in 6 minutes...

And it just might be that all those defense contractors see dollar bills in replacing massive amounts of fully functional infrastructure regardless of the pros and cons. The military has become very politicized and is chasing goals that have little to do with actually fighting and winning wars.

[the OlLine Rebel]

177 new natural gas power plants are being built right now across the country. 2 are going up near me. One is already online. Georgis just added a new reactor and it will supply all their needs.

US factories are going solar. The new Black & Decker plant in KY is powered 100% by solar and they  are selling off the excess.

I thought natural gas was now a bugaboo also?

You know, we’re not allowed to have natural gas stoves and heating anymore?

Have the EnviroMentals decided all that natural gas must be only for these plants?

[banddag]

And how are commercial cutters going to charge those machines constantly on a run over the whole day?  Generator now, on their trailers?  LOL. tell customers they need to plug in some?  Head back to base and recharge and switch machines?

The commercial grade zero turns run 6-8 hours on a charge with regular grass and 3-4 hours with tall grass 10"+ or higher.  The lawn care service company carries extra batteries that pull out in seconds just like your handheld batteries but bigger. There is a you tube video of a Gravely or Simplicity battery powered zero turn that cut a 3 acre lawn with grass 2 feet high. The commercial lawn car owners was super impressed.

If you read the independent you tube videos of people with lawn care co;s using battery powered zero turns they are all very impressed.

Like the guy told me today in 5 years  all zero turns will be battery powered. No hydraulics to worry about, no belts or hoses to break or wear out. no oil changes etc. No maintenance. No noise or vibration. Lower center of gravity so they are  not as tip prone.

Don't take my word for it read the reviews on youtube.

Check out the new John Deere electric commercial grade zero turns and others.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAgUD20TlFg

[the OlLine Rebel]

So the short answer is you have no idea regarding the question I asked you. It will just be magic that charges those batteries in 6 minutes...

And it just might be that all those defense contractors see dollar bills in replacing massive amounts of fully functional infrastructure regardless of the pros and cons. The military has become very politicized and is chasing goals that have little to do with actually fighting and winning wars.

Never mind it’s because of pressure and regulations, just like the regular world.

My whole career was also in defense contractors.  Glad I haven’t had to be part of this nonsense.  We’d probably have to hail and salute about green(red) design tropes all the time.  I thought it was bad 25 years ago or 30 even when the whackos were already pushing us to monitor how “good” we were.

[DB]

First off, you’re comparing 2 small items to each other.

2nd, both are “electric”.

3rd, people will use corded if it’s easy access.  Batteries for these are now quite good, but they do require charging and lose power to handle those torques.  Plus, batteries are still big and cause a handling difficulty such as balance by their bulk.

Don’t scoff.  I made complaints like this about CDs 20 years ago and people looked at me funny like how could I say that?  Where are CDs now?  Those same people are scoffing at how old fashioned they are with my same critiques.

Not that I expect battery power tools to go away, but they are legitimate complaints - except batteries get better so long-term usage is possible without balance problems.

Here in Arizona I've seen ZERO electric yard keeping tools used by the professional landscapers. And they are all over the place. They're all gas powered and for good reason. They are much lighter and more powerful while taking little time to refuel.

The only way they get professionals to use electric is by government outlawing the alternative. Hardly a sales pitch on why they are superior...

[banddag]

I thought natural gas was now a bugaboo also?

You know, we’re not allowed to have natural gas stoves and heating anymore?

Have the EnviroMentals decided all that natural gas must be only for these plants?

You spend  too much time on FR with those low IQ idiots. Natural gas production, drilling, fracking under biden is at record levels in 2023 and 2024 is going to be even greater. Gas stoves will never be outlawed and natural gas will be used for the next 100 years.  Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden. Bet you won't see that at FR

Biden may tell the greenies he is going to outlaw fossil fuels but he is winking at the fossil fuel industry at the same time. Large co;s control the agenda in this country not the politcians.

[the OlLine Rebel]

The commercial grade zero turns run 6-8 hours on a charge with regular grass and 3-4 hours with tall grass 10"+ or higher.  The lawn care service company carries extra batteries that pull out in seconds just like your handheld batteries but bigger. There is a you tube video of a Gravely or Simplicity battery powered zero turn that cut a 3 acre lawn with grass 2 feet high. The commercial lawn car owners was super impressed.

If you read the independent you tube videos of people with lawn care co;s using battery powered zero turns they are all very impressed.

Like the guy told me today in 5 years  all zero turns will be battery powered. No hydraulics to worry about, no belts or hoses to break or wear out. no oil changes etc. No maintenance. No noise or vibration. Lower center of gravity so they are  not as tip prone.

Don't take my word for it read the reviews on youtube.

Check out the new John Deere electric commercial grade zero turns and others.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAgUD20TlFg

That’s all very interesting.  I’m sure like cars, they have their place.  In the field, there will be issues.  Hills (my home I hope to get soon from moms estate has HUGE hill high grade), rough terrain, etc, all need power and torque.  Weather, too cold or hot or humid.

Watching something and using it once on a nice location is one thing.  Real life is another.

And again, the main reason they’ll be electric….force.  Regulations and coercion with subsidies.