Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)

[mountaineer]

Needless to say, the tinfoil Q nuts are all over this. Yep, something's hinky. Yessirree.

[the OlLine Rebel]

"If it had not directly hit that and if it had hit between the piers, the bridge may not have completely collapsed because bridges are designed to have some redundancy. But if you hit one of its main support structures, then it's very difficult for it to survive," he explained.

"But again, you know, those can withstand limited amounts of impact, but it's something so massive in terms of cargo vessel. Nothing could be designed to withstand something as large as that."
Posted by Chris Pandolfo

Thank you.  Totally sensible.

My extra note would be that the piers were not fully masonry all the way to the floor of the bridge. Above water was metal frame. That itself can also mean a little less strength if they were compromised.

[GtHawk]

And the lowest minority owned bidder (DEI clause) will get the contract and give the kick-backs.

Lots of Chicom steel too, I betcha!

[Wingnut]

On March 23, 1977, the four-lane Francis Scott Key Bridge opened to traffic.The 1.6-mile bridge extended across the Baltimore Harbor and connected Sollers Point in Baltimore County with Hawkins Point in Baltimore City. This was also the final link in establishing the 52-mile Baltimore Beltway (Interstate 695).

Construction on the Francis Scott Key Bridge began in 1972. Including its connecting approaches, the bridge project was 10.9 miles in length. Other structures along the thruway include a .64-mile dual-span drawbridge over Curtis Creek and two .74-mile parallel bridge structures that carry traffic over Bear Creek, near Bethlehem Steel's Sparrows Point plant.

March 26 2024 it was destroyed.

[NavyCanDo]

It Happens.  The supply ship USS Waccamaw lost power and crashed into my ship the Saratoga while refueling us.   No injuries but got us a nice extended stay in Sicily to repair the damage.

[Cyber Liberty]

It Happens.  The supply ship USS Waccamaw lost power and crashed into my ship the Saratoga while refueling us.   No injuries but got us a nice extended stay in Sicily to repair the damage.

Back in the 80's I knew a guy who served on the Sara.

[mystery-ak]

2 hours ago
One body pulled from the water: report
By Kaydi Pelletier

One body has been pulled from the water during the search and rescue mission to find at least six people missing after the Key bridge collapse overnight, a Baltimore City Council member told CNN Tuesday afternoon

"We are hearing one body was found,” Phylicia Porter said on CNN News Central.

[Fishrrman]

I spent a good deal of time today reading about the Baltimore bridge collapse (long thread over at t.o.s.).

And I read all the posts here.

And yet, NO ONE has raised the question:
What can be done to prevent another collision like this in the future when a large ship loses control in the immediate vicinity of a critical bridge?

Back on the railroad, whenever there was a serious accident, you could count on the Federal Railroad Administration to issue some new rule or modification to existing rules (whether it was justified or not). The mindset amongst them seemed to be, "we MUST do something, anything!"

Train wrecks are also investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board, which makes its own recommendations (again, not always needed).

I don't know whether or not the NTSB investigates coastal shipping incidents like this. There will be some entity that does. And then, will issue recommendations or new regulations.

I have no experience with ships or the particulars of how they handle, so take the following with a grain of salt, and explain to me where I'm wrong...

So... considering the circumstances... a large ship loses power and navigational ability approaching a critical bridge... with little or no "onboard controls"...
... What additional actions might be taken to prevent a disaster?

Obviously, if the ship has no control or maneuverability, it's not going to be able to "save itself".

But... what if...  in such circumstances, a large ship passing under such bridges was required to be accompanied by two (or more) tugboats, against the bow end on either side, assisting lightly...?

If the ship suffered a sudden loss of power, the tugs could "increase their assistance" and nudge the ship where it was supposed to be.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see the feds issue a new requirement that -- in lieu of a protective structure having been built around the main bridge piers (for an example of such, see the "doughnuts" that were built to protect the new Sunshine Skyway bridge in Tampa Bay), all ships over a certain size/tonnage will be accompanied by tugs until clearing "the outer buoys"... and arriving ships will be met there and "guided" all the way into dockside.

Once these existing bridges have had their piers sufficiently "protected", such escorts will no longer be required.

Again, I'm going to guess that there's going to be a lot of screaming to ensure that this "never happens again".

Just how are they going to do that?

[berdie]

Although this is a terrible event....why should Fed money for repair be involved?

Oh yeah...election year.

[Cyber Liberty]

Extending the use of tugboats to the harbor exit would probably be the most expeditious thing, right now.  I understand a lot of bridges now have fenders protecting the pylons but for some reason this bridge did not have them. 

It's debatable if they are effective for cargo vessels this size.  Newton's Laws of inertia cannot be denied.  I don't think a reduction in vessel size is going to happen.

[Cyber Liberty]

Although this is a terrible event....why should Fed money for repair be involved?

Oh yeah...election year.

And it's an Interstate....

[berdie]

And it's an Interstate....

Thanks...I wasn't aware of that.

[rustynail]

If we had just finished Biden's railroad to India and beyond this would have never happened.

[Bigun]

The only lead pipe sure way to make sure nothing like this ever happens again is to make sure all support columns are in water shallow enough to make sure that vessels run aground before they can do damage to them.

[mystery-ak]

Six workers at Baltimore bridge collapse presumed dead, construction exec says

[Hoodat]

No, it was not designed for large fully loaded airplanes flying full speed into it. It was designed for 707s but not the thought they’d be gunning it. Don’t know they’d assume full fueling either or where it hits. 

The bottom line is that an airplane hit each tower, and each withstood the impact.  It was fire weakening the steel structure that brought the buildings down.  Had they stuck with the original design, there wouldn't have been 3,000 casualties.  The buildings would have stood a couple of hours longer, allowing more people to evacuate.

Just stating “airplane” engenders many factors that have to be assumed.  You come up with reasonable scenarios, not outlandish insanity.  Cost-benefit has to be employed.  It cannot be avoided. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just that realize many things are not designed for insane scenarios.

Oh, I get it.  Economics plays a primary role in engineering.  I see it every day.  No, it wasn't designed to withstand the impact of an aircraft.  But it did.  And conversely, it was designed to withstand a prolonged fire.  But it didn't.  It didn't because the original design was abandoned in the middle of construction.

[Smokin Joe]

Biden's slurring, incoherent statement on the destruction of the Key bridge was, um, so uplifting.

Yeah, I'm surprised it didn't levitate the ironwork onto some dredge spoils and clear the channel.

 

[Smokin Joe]

They will dig a tunnel with federal tax dollars, and open it in 12 years.  Good luck with AMTRAK, y'all.

No trains have ever used the Francis Scott Key Bridge. Strictly vehicle traffic. But the rest of the roads there are going to be a miserable trek, taking up the traffic the bridge moved around the city.

[Smokin Joe]

Lots of Chicom steel too, I betcha!

In the '70s, it could have been Japanese, but Sparrows Point was still going, not far from the bridge.

[Smokin Joe]

2 hours ago
One body pulled from the water: report
By Kaydi Pelletier

One body has been pulled from the water during the search and rescue mission to find at least six people missing after the Key bridge collapse overnight, a Baltimore City Council member told CNN Tuesday afternoon

"We are hearing one body was found,” Phylicia Porter said on CNN News Central.

The water is still cold. They will either have to recover vehicles with remains, or figure out where the floaters will wash up in a few days (how the tide runs and likely places for the bodies to ground). If anyone got tangled up in the ironwork, they might not be found, at least until it is removed.

[Fishrrman]

Perhaps there shouldn't be a "replacement bridge" for the Key Bridge.

Instead, it might be time to consider a tunnel for that crossing.

Hazardous materials (that can't use a tunnel)??

Might be time for a supplemental ferry service to get them across...

[Smokin Joe]

Although this is a terrible event....why should Fed money for repair be involved?

Oh yeah...election year.

I don't get it, @berdie. Maryland is already bought and paid for...but it is likely going to be a heavy hat tip to the longshoremen, ironworkers, etc...

[Smokin Joe]

Extending the use of tugboats to the harbor exit would probably be the most expeditious thing, right now.  I understand a lot of bridges now have fenders protecting the pylons but for some reason this bridge did not have them. 

It's debatable if they are effective for cargo vessels this size.  Newton's Laws of inertia cannot be denied.  I don't think a reduction in vessel size is going to happen.

That was pretty much a head-on collision. Any protection would have to be designed to deflect the energy, and at that impact angle I am not sure it could be done, and likely the vessel would not survive the impact  at that angle, either.

[the OlLine Rebel]

The bottom line is that an airplane hit each tower, and each withstood the impact.  It was fire weakening the steel structure that brought the buildings down.  Had they stuck with the original design, there wouldn't have been 3,000 casualties.  The buildings would have stood a couple of hours longer, allowing more people to evacuate.


Oh, I get it.  Economics plays a primary role in engineering.  I see it every day.  No, it wasn't designed to withstand the impact of an aircraft.  But it did.  And conversely, it was designed to withstand a prolonged fire.  But it didn't.  It didn't because the original design was abandoned in the middle of construction.

Really not true from what I’ve seen.  I’m insane watching the 9/11 shows.  The structural discussions are available.

It was not built to handle tonnage of jet fuel on fire through the whol structure.  Regardless of asbestos and the other retardant.  Just the fact that that impact slices off various areas of that retardant breeches it, allowing direct contact with metal.  Further, the gaping holes created not just on the sides in 2D, but within the entire floor areas, meant less framing to lift.  It was built to handle 707 size planes accidentally hitting them, but not the other variables involved.

[Lando Lincoln]

What is the minimum draft required for these types of vessels?  From my experience, most river barges are 9 feet (lower Mississippi may be more) and lakers need 26 feet (Port of Chicago, anyway).  These large container vessels must require considerable depth.