Author Topic: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)  (Read 12040 times)

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Offline the OlLine Rebel

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2024, 02:32:56 pm »
Ok, local here.  I’m about a half hour away.  Didn’t know about this until this morning.  6:30 I heard radio guys talking as if something closed the bridge.  Didn’t think much of it.  Then wake up later 9:30 hear a ship hit the Key and brought it down.

First off, enough with the 2nd-guessing the engineering, etc.  I was an engineer, though not civil, just mechanical.  Simply speaking you can only design for so much.  World Trade Center wasn’t designed for large airplanes full of fuel deliberately charging for it.  The piers are a “key” structure for a bridge.  Bring it down and likely the whole thing comes down.  Who cares about the timing?  This was a truss bridge, not a suspension.  Either way, the manner it is designed, supported, and hit with what huge thing can affect how quickly it all falls.  There are so many factors.  Why call everyone into doubt?

Terrorism?  No way.  Just a huge ship, not at all uncommon here, losing its way and having massive momentum, and exerting massive force when it hits.

The film comes from several points which film in that direction.  I can’t remember if they said Ft. Smallwood or Ft. Armistead.  There is also supposed to be helicopter footage.  I think you can see it going by just before the collapse.

As far as cars - when I saw the full wide angle, it did not look like any passing cars were even on the end of the bridge at the exact time it collapsed.  Plenty before that, and the vehicles there were likely the work trucks as I heard about crew being on it and thus the workers who walked out of the water.  There have been reports that somehow people were trying to stop traffic from getting on.  Apparently JUST in time, because the few seconds before it struck zero moving cars were on it.  So likelY indeed only workers were involved, of which now they say are 8.

All I had heard early this morning was that the bridge was closed….thought maybe an accident or some other safety inspection closed it.  But they were right, this is going to mess up some traffic for a long time.  Key bridge is part of the beltway.  Went over it on the “Trump Train” back in 2020.

My biggest question would be, why do we rely so much on electrical?  Or did the mechanical actually fail and thus the electrical went out?  I don’t know how some of these modern ships are built.  I’d imagine the engines usually create the electrical, but maybe just battery banks that have generators to re-stock them.  If it was really 1 screw (someone mentioned this) and it really ran on electric, that may not be enough redundancy.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 02:37:18 pm by the OlLine Rebel »
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2024, 02:33:46 pm »
Press conference stated they don't think there were cars on the bridge at the time of the crash...just the work crew on the bridge.
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Offline the OlLine Rebel

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2024, 02:37:57 pm »
Press conference stated they don't think there were cars on the bridge at the time of the crash...just the work crew on the bridge.

Exactly.  Which is amazing since seconds before moving vehicle or 2 were definitely Crossing.
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Offline the OlLine Rebel

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2024, 02:40:18 pm »
Was thinking the navigator tried to avoid crashing into the middle of a span and purposefully steered toward the concrete support, thinking it might absorb a lot of the impact.

We all know that short of dropping anchors immediately, you're not going to stop the ship.

Then people online starting suggesting "terrorism"...because until they clear the Patapsco River now, all shipping is halted.

I don’t think they’d be stupid enough todo that.  That is THE structure of the bridge, and their ship is gigantic with movement.  It’s not a small yacht.  Hitting the span isn’t as disastrous, hopefully, because likely only part of the truss or just that span would go down.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2024, 02:40:53 pm »


First off, enough with the 2nd-guessing the engineering, etc.  I was an engineer, though not civil, just mechanical.  Simply speaking you can only design for so much.  World Trade Center wasn’t designed for large airplanes full of fuel deliberately charging for it.  The piers are a “key” structure for a bridge.  Bring it down and likely the whole thing comes down.  Who cares about the timing?  This was a truss bridge, not a suspension.  Either way, the manner it is designed, supported, and hit with what huge thing can affect how quickly it all falls.  There are so many factors.  Why call everyone into doubt?



Also was an engineer, not civil, but environmental.  I'll take your point, but do have to ask why wasn't this a causway rather than a truss, suspension, or whever.  Seems the impact would have been more favorble, and damage localized instead of catistrophic.  Seems risk assements would have meted that out.
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Offline GtHawk

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2024, 02:46:42 pm »
That should inspire confidence that the situation is under control.   *****rollingeyes*****
:pondering: Buttjigger all of a sudden Johnny on the spot for a transportation disaster, why I wonder and then I realized that Maryland is heavily democrat and right next to to the grifter in chiefs Delaware. It would have to be something very political to get Buttjigger to stop his perceived job of social engineering and and (queer) advancement to doing his actual job so quickly.

Prayers to all the victims and their families.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2024, 02:51:54 pm »
:pondering: Buttjigger all of a sudden Johnny on the spot for a transportation disaster, why I wonder and then I realized that Maryland is heavily democrat and right next to to the grifter in chiefs Delaware. It would have to be something very political to get Buttjigger to stop his perceived job of social engineering and and (queer) advancement to doing his actual job so quickly.

Prayers to all the victims and their families.


I hope East Ohio and Western PA are watching closely.  Pols tipping the scale based on red/blue doesn't fly.
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Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2024, 02:55:53 pm »
The bridge is from the 70s, so my wild guess is a replacement was being considered, but redistributionist programs were prioritized.  Measures could have been taken to protect the support beams ... i.e. structural dolphins similar to those surrounding the Sunshine Skyway after its collapse in 1980. 

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2024, 03:10:10 pm »
Former merchant mariner and current history professor Sal Mercogliano has a great channel and is providing expert coverage and analysis of this accident.


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Offline the OlLine Rebel

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2024, 03:19:55 pm »
Also was an engineer, not civil, but environmental.  I'll take your point, but do have to ask why wasn't this a causway rather than a truss, suspension, or whever.  Seems the impact would have been more favorble, and damage localized instead of catistrophic.  Seems risk assements would have meted that out.

Don’t know why it would make much difference.  The shipping lanes would still be blocked.  The Patapsco here is very wide.  Would a “causeway” allow height?  Ships need to pass, and big ones.  Causeways go over the swamps here leading to the up-river tunnel.

I’m not going to question too much why engineers did what they did.  Especially when better generations were involved in it.
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2024, 03:28:12 pm »
The moment/inertia of many thousands of tons in motion impacting a fixed object - yikes. I have some river barge traffic “knowledge” which means little but I have wondered why more bridge columns and caissons aren’t buttressed with protection. Maybe Little Pete should think about that.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 03:49:18 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline Wingnut

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2024, 03:46:40 pm »
As a side note:  I was living in Tampa, when almost 44 years ago (May 9, 1980) the M/V Summit Venture freighter collided with a support beam on the Skyway Bridge, connecting Lower Tampa Bay to St. Pete, sending a 1,200-foot section of the road into the water below. Thirty-five people were killed after six cars, a truck, and a Greyhound bus fell over 150 feet into the water.



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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2024, 03:50:57 pm »
As a side note:  I was living in Tampa, when almost 44 years ago (May 9, 1980) the M/V Summit Venture freighter collided with a support beam on the Skyway Bridge, connecting Lower Tampa Bay to St. Pete, sending a 1,200-foot section of the road into the water below. Thirty-five people were killed after six cars, a truck, and a Greyhound bus fell over 150 feet into the water.



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I remember that. I suspect the lucky guy soiled his armor.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2024, 03:51:38 pm »
Re the ship turning to starboard:

1. In what direction was the current/tide flowing?

2. With the loss of power aboard the ship, did the rudder turn/jam or get turned/jammed?

3. Is it possible to learn facts before conspiracy-theorizing? Waiting is less entertaining, of course.
A little wind from the port quarter could cause a vessel of that size to fall off to starboard if helm control were lost (that's a lot of sail area, there). I am not sure of the weather conditions.

I know it takes very little for small craft to do so, just from trying to keep lines from fouling each other when fishing and to maintain bearing and steerageway. While this vessel has considerably greater tonnage, it also has considerably greater 'sail' area.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2024, 03:52:23 pm »
I remember that. I suspect the lucky guy soiled his armor.
Either that, or the seat turned into a donut...
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Offline Wingnut

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2024, 03:56:46 pm »
I remember that. I suspect the lucky guy soiled his armor.

Either that, or the seat turned into a donut...

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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2024, 04:02:07 pm »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2024, 04:02:19 pm »
:pondering: Buttjigger all of a sudden Johnny on the spot for a transportation disaster, why I wonder and then I realized that Maryland is heavily democrat and right next to to the grifter in chiefs Delaware. It would have to be something very political to get Buttjigger to stop his perceived job of social engineering and and (queer) advancement to doing his actual job so quickly.

Prayers to all the victims and their families.

It's about halfway from DC to Delaware,and too close to his back yard to ignore. This will definitely affect traffic patterns for vehicle traffic, and closing the Port of Baltimore will lead to increased semi traffic as well (to try to replace shipping into Baltimore and out by shunting cargo to/from other ports). For all intents and purposes, Baltimore is blockaded.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2024, 04:04:09 pm »
Civil engineer explains why Baltimore bridge so easily collapsed

The Francis Scott Key Bridge's collapse was all but inevitable once a cargo ship rammed into one of the bridge's main supports, according to one expert.

Shocking video shows the moment the bridge appears to snap and fall apart into the Patapsco River. Maryland officials have said there was no structural issues and that the bridge was fully up to code.

"Part of the problem was this was a massive tanker ship. It was not only carrying a very heavy load, but it was also not just wide, it was tall as well. So it was almost the height of the bridge," said Dr. Ron Harichandran, dean of the Tagliatela College of Engineering at University of New Haven.

Harichandran, a civil engineer, told Fox News Digital the cargo ship destroyed one of the concrete piers that supported the bridge, sealing its fate.

"If it had not directly hit that and if it had hit between the piers, the bridge may not have completely collapsed because bridges are designed to have some redundancy. But if you hit one of its main support structures, then it's very difficult for it to survive," he explained.

Modern designs have a sort of "bumper system" around the pier intended to absorb a potential impact, according to Harichandran.

"But again, you know, those can withstand limited amounts of impact, but it's something so massive in terms of cargo vessel. Nothing could be designed to withstand something as large as that."
Posted by Chris Pandolfo
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2024, 04:04:11 pm »
The moment/inertia of many thousands of tons in motion impacting a fixed object - yikes. I have some river barge traffic “knowledge” which means little but I have wondered why more bridge columns and caissons aren’t buttressed with protection. Maybe Little Pete should think about that.
It likely was buttressed, but with that much vessel bearing down, it would be like a freight train hitting a jersey barrier.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2024, 04:08:04 pm »
The crew of the cargo ship that struck the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore lost power and issued a mayday in the moments before the disaster, Maryland Gov. Wes Moore said.

The container ship Dali sent the mayday in time for authorities to stop traffic from entering the bridge, limiting the number of vehicles involved in what officials have called a "mass casualty event."

"We're thankful that between the mayday and the collapse that we had officials who were able to begin to stop the flow of traffic so more cars were not on the bridge," Moore said.

Authorities said a crew of eight construction workers were on the bridge, in addition to any traffic at the time of the collapse.

Search and rescue operations pulled two workers from the water, one in critical condition who was hospitalized. Efforts to locate the other six are ongoing.

Authorities said that sonar had detected cars in the water, which is about 50 feet deep. The temperature was about 47 degrees Fahrenheit before dawn on Tuesday, according to a buoy that collects data for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Moore said an investigation is ongoing to determine how many people were caught in the collapse and plunged into the river.

"But the thing we do know is that many of the vehicles were stopped before they got onto the bridge, which saved lives in a very, very heroic way."
Posted by Chris Pandolfo
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2024, 04:34:27 pm »
Everything you need to know about the Francis Scott Key Bridge's collapse in Baltimore

    The Dali, the Singapore-flagged container ship that smashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore and destroyed it early Tuesday, reportedly lost propulsion and tried to warn officials that it was going to crash, according to a report.
    Six people are unaccounted for, according to authorities. Two people were pulled from the river by rescuers.
    Seven vehicles were missing after falling from the 1.6-mile-long span. Officials are using sonar technology to find the vehicles.
    Videos show power on the ship flickering off, and then on again, shortly before the crash. Watch footage of the bridge’s collapse here.
    A Baltimore resident described how the horrifying collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge early Tuesday morning caused his entire house to feel like it was falling down.
    The Dali was also involved in a collision while leaving the Port of Antwerp, Belgium, in 2016.
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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2024, 04:38:18 pm »
Biden to speak soon.. *****rollingeyes*****
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses (Hit by a ship)
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2024, 04:43:00 pm »
Biden to speak soon.. *****rollingeyes*****

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