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Are frozen embryos really people?
« on: February 23, 2024, 04:55:44 pm »
February 22, 2024
Are frozen embryos really people?
By Robert Arvay

I have been pro-life ever since, in my childhood, I first heard of abortion.  Killing a developing baby in his mother’s womb is clearly an act of killing an innocent person.  It is one issue on which science and morality agree.

Technology has, however, intruded into the domain of what is and is not moral.  Surrogate motherhood has, for many people, solved the heartbreak of childlessness.  A woman who is incapable of carrying a child to term may have one (or usually more) of her eggs fertilized with her husband’s sperm, and then have a resulting embryo transplanted, so to speak, into the uterus of a woman, a surrogate mother, who can “take it from there,” gestating the child to full term.  After nine months, the husband and wife happily welcome their newborn offspring into their home, and thereafter parent the child to adulthood.

What could go wrong?

One thing that sometimes does go wrong is that the surrogate mother, having internally nurtured a baby for thirty-six weeks, and then given birth, develops a strong emotional bond with the child.  Having then to surrender that child to another woman, albeit the genetic mother, can be emotionally painful, even devastating.

Lawyers get involved.  Contract law is applied.  Courts make decisions.  Legislatures attempt to remedy perceived injustices.  Simply put, there is no “simply put.”

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https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/02/are_frozen_embryos_really_people.html
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2024, 05:15:13 pm »
My wife and I have 3 or 4 embryos is storage, no joke. I do not want them destroyed rather see the donated to other couples.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2024, 05:21:18 pm »
Quote
Are frozen embryos really people?

Is their DNA human, cheetah, or trout?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2024, 06:55:09 pm »
I don't know when life begins.

Some faiths believe that human life begins at conception, but, conception is merely the first step of the miracle of birth.

A fertillzed egg cannot survive on its own.  It needs to implant itself in the lining of the uterus to develop further.

Some of the people worried about Obamacare Death Panels and Covid shots are the same people advancing Government intrusion in pregancy healthcare, to the point where pregnant women with failing pregnancies need to be near death to receive life saving medical care.  They are giving the Government the power to decide if a pregnant woman's exisiting children grow up without a mother - ironically, a Government death panel.

I don't know what the answer is, but, I do know what the answer is not - Goverrnment.

Which Governments inserted themselves in family planning decisions?  Communist China and Nazi Germany.  Do we really want to go in that direction as a nation and as a people?
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2024, 06:56:12 pm »
They are human beings, albeit very young ones.
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2024, 07:03:21 pm »
I see ours as human beings.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2024, 07:11:57 pm »
...
A fertillzed egg cannot survive on its own.  It needs to implant itself in the lining of the uterus to develop further.

Some of the people worried about Obamacare Death Panels and Covid shots are the same people advancing Government intrusion in pregancy healthcare, to the point where pregnant women with failing pregnancies need to be near death to receive life saving medical care.  They are giving the Government the power to decide if a pregnant woman's exisiting children grow up without a mother - ironically, a Government death panel.

I don't know what the answer is, but, I do know what the answer is not - Goverrnment.

Which Governments inserted themselves in family planning decisions?  Communist China and Nazi Germany.  Do we really want to go in that direction as a nation and as a people?

1. Take a healthy 4 month old, lay him/her in the middle of a room surrounded by food, clothing, and blankets, and walk away. If no one else entered the room and you came back a month later, what will you find? The arguments that an embryo depends on being implanted or that a fetus depends on the umbilical cord don't work. A child is dependent on having caretakers for many years after being born.

2. Except for uncommon problems like an ectopic pregnancy, in which the woman's life is truly at stake, abortion is not "pregnancy healthcare". The vast majority of abortions kill babies who would inconvenience the egg and sperm donors.

3. China's now-former "One Child" policy, in which women were subjected to forced abortions and Nazi Germany's slaughter of persons with disabilities were not "family planning decisions". China killed babies, Germany killed babies (and children, and adults), and abortion kills living, growing, human babies.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2024, 07:21:47 pm »
Sweet home, Alabama.
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2024, 07:50:34 pm »
Republicans blast Alabama IVF ruling as decision causes political upheaval for party
By
Rachel Schilke
February 23, 2024 10:52 am


House Republicans and GOP candidates are pushing back against the Alabama Supreme Court ruling that determined frozen embryos are children, causing in vitro fertilization procedures throughout the state to be halted.

Alabama’s high court essentially placed a target on the backs of Republicans who are heading into a critical general election this November, as the embryo decision risks alienating swing voters and highlights another manner in which the striking down of Roe v. Wade is affecting more people than those who are anti-abortion.

Statistically, many GOP voters who have suffered from the inability to conceive naturally have undergone IVF treatments, so seeing that choice taken from them could do consequential damage to independent and centrist Republican voters.

In the week following the ruling, GOP legislators, on the whole, were relatively silent, but now Republican lawmakers and candidates are looking to distance themselves from the ruling. David McCormick, Republican primary candidate for Pennsylvania Senate, blasted the court’s decision on Friday morning.

“IVF is a ray of hope for millions of Americans seeking the blessing of children,” McCormick said in a post on X. “I oppose any effort to restrict it.”

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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2870481/republicans-blast-alabama-ivf-ruling-as-decision-causes-political-upheaval-for-party/
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2024, 08:04:36 pm »
In this instance the question is one of defining when life begins.

Under more ordinary circumstances, most conservatives would argue at conception.

An embryo has been conceived, not just sperm or eggs, but those combined, so yes, by the concept that life begins at conception, an embryo is a life, just in arrested development.

To quote the Declaration: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
Note that Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness are in order of precedence: the succeeding Rights cannot be observed without those which come first.

We do not have a society in which all those rights are respected by everyone; hence: government.

IMHO, that should ideally be kept to the absolute minimum. Considering that, however, the protection of the Right to life is one of those things for which our governments was created, a fundamental duty to the People. If, by the reasoning stated above, the embryo is a life, it should be protected, as should the developing baby in the womb. Note, please, that an ectopic or tubal pregnancy is not in the womb, and that we have generally decided that the preservation of the physical life of the mother (half the means of producing progeny) takes precedence. At that point it should be a medical matter, not the decision of Government. It is only through the extension of those boundaries through social excuses (i.e. Eugenics) that the need for intervention arises.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 08:06:14 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2024, 08:20:08 pm »
I doubt this will survive the inevitable trip to the SCOTUS.  JMHO.

Maybe, but the issue is also raised of whether the parents 'own' the embryos (to dispose of as property), and whether that violates the 13th Amemdnent.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 08:28:28 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2024, 11:29:16 pm »
ABC’s Hostin: Alabama IVF Ruling About Republicans Wanting ‘More American White Children’

ABC legal analyst Sunny Hostin told her co-hosts Friday on “The View” that the Alabama Supreme Court’s ruling embryos are children was an attempt to increase the birth rate of white children.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2024/02/23/abcs-hostin-alabama-ivf-ruling-about-republicans-wanting-more-american-white-children/
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2024, 11:30:01 pm »
Donald Trump Calls on Alabama Legislature to Find Way to Preserve IVF: GOP Sides with the ‘Miracle of Life’

Trump is calling on the Alabama Legislature to find a way to preserve in vitro fertilization (IVF) in Alabama following the Alabama Supreme Court ruling last week that frozen embryos are considered unborn children, asserting that the “Republican Party should always be on the side of the Miracle of Life.”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/02/23/donald-trump-calls-on-alabama-legislature-to-find-way-to-preserve-ivf-gop-sides-with-the-miracle-of-life/
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Re: Are frozen embryos really people?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2024, 11:30:27 pm »
ABC’s Hostin: Alabama IVF Ruling About Republicans Wanting ‘More American White Children’
The box of rocks called. They're tired of being compared to Sunny Hostin's intellect; it's demeaning.
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