Author Topic: America Last: 12 Senate Republicans Vote to Send Ukraine Another $60B After Vowing to Put U.S. Borde  (Read 4846 times)

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Offline catfish1957

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Wrong again.

I wanted the bill to proceed. 


Contradictory at worst, disingenuous at best.

Considering the fact that Biden could resolve this by simpl reversing his EO's that were invoked against Trump's prior policies is just massive proof that Biden has no interest in a legislative fix.  And this is just 100% poitical posturing favoring the left in a crisis  Any negotiation with Biden/Schumer is pointless, and playing into their hand.

I thought you've been around long enough to understand that.  I guess not.
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Offline HikerGuy83

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Any negotiation with Biden/Schumer is pointless, and playing into their hand.

Hence my thread asking why the morons in the senate agreed to negotiate when they knew it was no going to produce anything but bad press for them.

Offline HikerGuy83

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I thought you've been around long enough to understand that.  I guess not.

Yes, you seem to guess at a lot.  And miss.

You should run for the senate.  Youd fit right in.

Online Hoodat

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Personally, I want the additional aid for Ukraine, but that doesn't look like it is going to happen.

We would be better off running this as a CIA operation like we did in Afghanistan back in the early 80s and again in 2001-2002.

Consider troop-killing drones.  For argument's sake, let's inflate the cost to $1,000 each.  Buy 600,000 of them.  That comes to $600 million.  Now, let's say they kill/incapacitate one Russian soldier for every three drones.  That equates to 200,000 Russian casualties, which is 50% of their current total.  And that is with only 1% of what Biden is asking for with no auditing in place and no guarantee that a dime of it ends up in Ukraine.

This regime does not want Ukraine to win.  They are trying to drag this war out as long as possible and are using it to siphon off graft.

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Online Hoodat

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Apparently there is no border protection provisions in the bill !!!!!!

Which begs the question of why you continued to support it even though there was nothing in it that would slow illegal immigration.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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We would be better off running this as a CIA operation like we did in Afghanistan back in the early 80s and again in 2001-2002.

Consider troop-killing drones.  For argument's sake, let's inflate the cost to $1,000 each.  Buy 600,000 of them.  That comes to $600 million.  Now, let's say they kill/incapacitate one Russian soldier for every three drones.  That equates to 200,000 Russian casualties, which is 50% of their current total.  And that is with only 1% of what Biden is asking for with no auditing in place and no guarantee that a dime of it ends up in Ukraine.

I'm just going to say that you will never, ever get that high of a kill ratio.  If you look historically at the amount of ammunition necessary to kill an enemy soldier, it's staggering.

Online Hoodat

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I'm just going to say that you will never, ever get that high of a kill ratio.  If you look historically at the amount of ammunition necessary to kill an enemy soldier, it's staggering.

It is amazing how successful these tactics have been.  Consider also that one drone can take out multiple combatants.  So yes, it is that possible.  The only problem is mass producing 600,000 kamikaze drones.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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It is amazing how successful these tactics have been. 

Consider also that one drone can take out multiple combatants.  So yes, it is that possible.  The only problem is mass producing 600,000 kamikaze drones.

It isn't nearly that simple.  Just because something has had success on a small scale, in particular combat situations And environments, does not mean it extrapolates to mass effectiveness.

Rather go through a lengthy explanation, I'll simply point out that no military in the world is adopting what you are proposing.  At the price point/level of complexity, you are assuming, such drones would be cheaper than artillery rounds that are already produced in the millions.  The ukrainians themselves already would have produced hundreds of thousands of those things if they were truly that effective.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 02:17:21 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline kevindavis007

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No. No. No.  We've given Ukraine and Zelenskyy more than enough. How much $$ has been funneled off not only to members of our own gov't but Ukraine as well?


Whatever Putin troll
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Ful disclosure - I began serving under Reagan and so was steeped in the Cold War vibe during my formative years.  So I have a bias.

With that said, the thought of the U.S. sitting on its hands while Ukrainians are willing to fight and die to defend their country against Russia led by a former KGB operative makes me sick and ashamed.  Not sure what we stand for if others fighting for their own liberty doesn't matter to us anymore.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 03:20:53 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online Bigun

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Ful disclosure - I began serving under Reagan and so was stepped in the Cold War vibe during my formative years.  So I have a bias.

With that said, the thought of the U.S. sitting on its hands while Ukrainians are willing to fight and die to defend their country makes me ashamed.  Not sure what we stand for if others fighting for their own liberty doesn't matter to us anymore.

I was a generation before you @Maj. Bill Martin in Vietnam and saw first-hand how the war there was manipulated to enrich defense industries and their investors at the expense of actually winning the war. IF we approached things on the basis of actually winning rather than how many $$$ can be extracted I would probably have a different outlook. We don't and I don't.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 03:23:21 pm by Bigun »
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Offline sneakypete

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Ful disclosure - I began serving under Reagan and so was steeped in the Cold War vibe during my formative years.  So I have a bias.

With that said, the thought of the U.S. sitting on its hands while Ukrainians are willing to fight and die to defend their country against Russia led by a former KGB operative makes me sick and ashamed.  Not sure what we stand for if others fighting for their own liberty doesn't matter to us anymore.

@Maj. Bill Martin

EXCELLENT POST!

I can  only add my own selfish self-interest to that by saying "Ukrainian soldiers are fighting and dying in order to defeat the evil known as the Soviet Union,and THAT means that no US soldiers are fighting and dying to do this VERY necessary job.

With ANY luck at all,the Russian people and their senior Soviet Masters will see the writing on the wall,and end the war themselves by removing Putin from power and installing a government friendly towards the west.

And after all,why wouldn't they? While Putin is a left-over remnant from the days of aggression to and from the west,times have changed and there are plenty of mid-level and almost certainly more than a few senior Russian Generals who see both the futility of continuing hostilities with the west,but the need to be able to focus their resources on their eastern border because as sure as sunrise,the Chinese WILL invade eastern Russia in an effort to steal all that gold and oil.

The Chinese either have to do that,or allow Chinese Communism to die because they do NOT have the resources necessary in China to "keep that boat floating". Which ultimately means an invasion of eastern Russia because  there is no  way in HELL the entitled Chi-Com leadership is ready or willing to face an actual rebellion when the food and other supplies run out,and they don't have the money to  buy it. Or wouldn't,if we would stop giving them our factories and buying their junk.

It is NO exaggeration to STATE that it is American Capitalists and corrupt politicians that  are keeping the "Chinese Boat afloat" today. This is the fault of "we,the people of the US of America" for ignoring this situation and allowing our politicians to buy (more truthfully,"be bought") into it.

 A rebellion like that generally leads to the old leadership hanging by the necks in public squares.

The ONLY thing standing in the way of peace between Russia and the west is Putin and a few other geezers from his generation that are still in power,and the western politicians and corporations that get money from allowing it to  happen.

BTW,does it REALLY need to be said that allowing the above puts American workers out of work with no hope of getting a similar job?

« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 04:29:44 pm by sneakypete »
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Online bigheadfred

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Ful disclosure - I began serving under Reagan and so was steeped in the Cold War vibe during my formative years.  So I have a bias.

With that said, the thought of the U.S. sitting on its hands while Ukrainians are willing to fight and die to defend their country against Russia led by a former KGB operative makes me sick and ashamed.  Not sure what we stand for if others fighting for their own liberty doesn't matter to us anymore.

Biden said yesterday that this bill was funding NATO.  Do you agree?
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Biden said yesterday that this bill was funding NATO.  Do you agree?

No.  Biden is a senile idiot.

Online Hoodat

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Biden said yesterday that this bill was funding NATO.  Do you agree?

Large chunks of past spending bills have been doled out to NATO countries.  When Biden says it is a bill for Ukraine, he is lying.
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Offline sneakypete

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No.  Biden is a senile idiot.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Actually,he has been an idiot his whole life.

The senility is new,and just a "cherry on the top".
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@Maj. Bill Martin

Actually,he has been an idiot his whole life.

The senility is new,and just a "cherry on the top".

No argument there.  I remember being a law student watching him chair Judiciary Committee hearings, and the consensus was that he wouldn't have passed a basic constitutional law class.

Then again, he was 76th our of 85 in the fourth tier law school he attended, and earned a plagiarism  sanction as well, so that's no surprise.


Offline mountaineer

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Then again, he was 76th our of 85 in the fourth tier law school he attended, and earned a plagiarism  sanction as well, so that's no surprise.
We are so blessed to have such an intellectual giant as our Commander-in-Chief!
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Online Hoodat

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For someone with subpar intelligence, what is striking to me is his perfect track record for being wrong.  As dumb as a broke clock is, at least it gets it right two moments out of the day.  Biden has been going on 50 years now, and still has yet to get one right.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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For someone with subpar intelligence, what is striking to me is his perfect track record for being wrong.  As dumb as a broke clock is, at least it gets it right two moments out of the day.  Biden has been going on 50 years now, and still has yet to get one right.

Someone - it may have been Robert Gates - said that Biden had an unmatched record of being wrong on every major foreign policy decision.  Can't remember all of them, but the ones he listed included : 1) Being against the Gulf War, 2) In favor of the 2003 decision to invade Iraq, and 3) being the only person in the room against pulling the trigger on the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 05:29:44 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »