Nikki Haley slammed for not mentioning ‘slavery’ as cause of the Civil War in ‘word salad’ answer du

[Hoodat]

I almost hate to post this, but: 
Misleading Causes of the American Civil War, Posted on December 30, 2023 by Scott Malensek at Flopping Aces.

Thank you for posting that.

[Bigun]

I almost hate to post this, but: 
Misleading Causes of the American Civil War, Posted on December 30, 2023 by Scott Malensek at Flopping Aces.

Why would you hate to post this very even-handed article full of actual HISTORY? @mountaineer

Everyone should read it!

[Bigun]

Don't forget Article IV, Sec 3.

Why would anyone pay any attention to the actual words of that? /S @Hoodat

[libertybele]

I almost hate to post this, but: 
Misleading Causes of the American Civil War, Posted on December 30, 2023 by Scott Malensek at Flopping Aces.

Thanks for posting.

[Smokin Joe]

I almost hate to post this, but: 
Misleading Causes of the American Civil War, Posted on December 30, 2023 by Scott Malensek at Flopping Aces.

Good Article, well worth reading.

[mountaineer]

Why would you hate to post this very even-handed article full of actual HISTORY?

I just hate to contribute to the neverending Civil War debate. It was an interesting essay, though.

[Smokin Joe]

I just hate to contribute to the neverending Civil War debate. It was an interesting essay, though.

It is good, and accurate. It does fail to mention how the northern railroad magnates proposed building railroad bridges across the Mississippi River which would have been low enough to stop steamboat shipping from going upriver, effectively establishing a monopoly on shipping (another issue of the 1830s which prompted Calhoun to raise hell).

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Why would you hate to post this very even-handed article full of actual HISTORY? @mountaineer

Everyone should read it!

I certainly agree with (most of) the summary of the article:

African Americans studying African American culture will think it was all about African Americans and slavery. Clearly, like all wars, it had many reasons and many lessons. Blaming it all on slavery ignores those lessons which as we see a candidate blocked from ballots-are increasingly important today.

I don't think the comment should be limited just to African-Americans, but I agree that all of the blame shouldn't go to slavery.  Just most of it.   I can read the declarations of secession.  South Carolina was wildly upfront about it being about slavery, and so were most of the other states that seceded.

That is NOT the same thing as saying that is why individual Southernors fought.  But when the elected representatives of the voters pass a bill of secession in which they say why they are voting to secede, and it is mostly about slavery, that is a pretty big hurdle to overcome.

[sneakypete]

I certainly agree with (most of) the summary of the article:

I don't think the comment should be limited just to African-Americans, but I agree that all of the blame shouldn't go to slavery.  Just most of it.   I can read the declarations of secession.  South Carolina was wildly upfront about it being about slavery, and so were most of the other states that seceded.

That is NOT the same thing as saying that is why individual Southernors fought.  But when the elected representatives of the voters pass a bill of secession in which they say why they are voting to secede, and it is mostly about slavery, that is a pretty big hurdle to overcome.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Well,it would certainly not be much of a stretch to make that claim when it comes to the reasons the North invaded the south.

The truth is the northern industrialists wanted slavery in the south ended (there was also slavery in the north,but you never hear about that anymore) in order to bankrupt the largest land owners in the south so they could buy  up their property for
any back taxes that would come due.

They also wanted the southern slaves "freed" in order to be able to hire them to work in their sweat shops because the American workers and the recent immigrants working in their sweat shops were getting uppity about low wages,long hours,and in some cases,company stores being the only places they could spend their wages.

You can never go wrong when you start following the Benjamins.

[libertybele]

I just hate to contribute to the neverending Civil War debate. It was an interesting essay, though.

I for one find the article enlightening.  There isn't much difference in age between my hubby and I, but when I asked him about the cause of the Civil War, his answer was more about economics; I was taught it was about slavery.  I'm concluding that history was being rewritten even back then to accommodate an agenda.

[jmyrlefuller]

Again, I ask: what does any of that **** have to do with the many crises facing America in 2024? To get slogged down into pedantic arguments about the mid-19th century isn't going to help our cost of living/cost of government and birth rate crises.

[libertybele]

Again, I ask: what does any of that **** have to do with the many crises facing America in 2024? To get slogged down into pedantic arguments about the mid-19th century isn't going to help our cost of living/cost of government and birth rate crises.

Not it won't help with the cost of living but there are parallels as to what happened back then to what is happening today. 

[Bigun]

Again, I ask: what does any of that **** have to do with the many crises facing America in 2024? To get slogged down into pedantic arguments about the mid-19th century isn't going to help our cost of living/cost of government and birth rate crises.

Whether or not you EVER realize it the answer to that question is everything!

[mountaineer]

Yes, we should know the truth about the Civil War. I just don't see why it was necessary or appropriate to ask Haley about it.

[catfish1957]

I just hate to contribute to the neverending Civil War debate. It was an interesting essay, though.

Some theads anound the WBTS at the TOS lasted longer than the war itself.    My POV on Southern Heritiage isn't going to change, so why bother to engage.

[Sighlass]

I almost hate to post this, but: 
Misleading Causes of the American Civil War, Posted on December 30, 2023 by Scott Malensek at Flopping Aces.

Late to the party, but I enjoyed the article too.

@mountaineer

[Bigun]

Some theads anound the WBTS at the TOS lasted longer than the war itself.    My POV on Southern Heritiage isn't going to change, so why bother to engage.

Maybe I'm a committee of one at this point, but I consider knowledge of our HONEST history to be hugely important going forward.

[Smokin Joe]

Maybe I'm a committee of one at this point, but I consider knowledge of our HONEST history to be hugely important going forward.

There is no point in studying flawed and 'sanitized' oversimplified history if you are going to try to learn anything that will prevent its repetition. Conclusions drawn will be missing evidence and data and will be deeply flawed.

It is like trying to engineer a bridge with incorrect materials specifications.

[DCPatriot]

Maybe I'm a committee of one at this point, but I consider knowledge of our HONEST history to be hugely important going forward.

@Bigun

You're not alone!   

[Timber Rattler]

One would think that a politician of her experience would know better than to fall into the usual U.S. history trap, designed to trip Republicans up on race and slavery.  But no, apparently Haley can't think that fast on her feet....so thus we get this mess of a word salad out of her.

[DCPatriot]

One would think that a politician of her experience would know better than to fall into the usual U.S. history trap, designed to trip Republicans up on race and slavery.  But no, apparently Haley can't think that fast on her feet....so thus we get this mess of a word salad out of her.

Read/heard somewhere, this wasn't her first 'rodeo' on the topic.

No matter.  In any event she becomes the GOP Nominee, I'll vote for her.

Hell, I'll vote for Tommy DeVito over any DEM.   

[Timber Rattler]

Read/heard somewhere, this wasn't her first 'rodeo' on the topic.

No, she was in fact the one who started this whole Confederacy cancellation movement when she ordered the removal of a Sons of Confederate memorial and battle flag from the South Carolina statehouse grounds, just to pander to blacks.

Flashback:

The Role Nikki Haley’s 2015 Decision to Remove the Confederate Flag Could Play in Her Presidential Run

https://time.com/6255503/nikki-haley-2024-confederate-flag/

A former Trump Administration official says questions about the Confederate flag no longer divide the party and candidates shouldn’t attack Haley on the decision. “I don’t think Trump is going to attack her for that,” the former official says. But the official suggests that Haley could be vulnerable on cultural and racial issues, including attacks portraying her as liberal on the Black Lives Matter movement. Haley herself touched on those controversies in her announcement video. “Some think our ideas are not just wrong, but racist and evil,” she says over clips depicting racial justice protests. “Nothing could be further from the truth.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njuVdGZlZbc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpfEzZUFWfY

[catfish1957]

Maybe I'm a committee of one at this point, but I consider knowledge of our HONEST history to be hugely important going forward.

No one has fought more than me against the woke attacks on the legacy of  confederate soldiers, and those of us who want to honor that service.  My point of being a tireless defender of southern heritiage, and protecting our ancestors legacy has with even with my efforts resulted in zero converts.  I am at the point now, why bother. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

No one has fought more than me against the woke attacks on the legacy of  confederate soldiers, and those of us who want to honor that service.  My point of being a tireless defender of southern heritiage, and protecting our ancestors legacy has even with my efforts resulted in zero coverts.  I am at the point now, why bother.

I think it is worth pointing out that saying that slavery was the biggest cause is not at all the same thing as saying that those who fought were motivated by a desire to defend slavery.

The cause of World War I was the assassination of Archduke Frantz Ferdinand, but the soldiers who fought in the various armies didn't give two craps about that.

Just wanted to make that clear.

[catfish1957]

I think it is worth pointing out that saying that slavery was the biggest cause is not at all the same thing as saying that those who fought were motivated by a desire to defend slavery.

The cause of World War I was the assassination of Archduke Frantz Ferdinand, but the soldiers who fought in the various armies didn't give two craps about that.

Just wanted to make that clear.

You'd be shocked how many times I've been called a racist (esp. in my wife's Yankee land climes) for defending these soldiers, and most being non-slave holders who saw an invading army trying to destroy their way of life.

And a big shout out to the wet noodles who run the SCV.  Their cowardice in this assault has been downright embarassing.