Author Topic: GOP rebels send warning to Speaker Johnson after blowing up vote last week: 'We're going to get cuts  (Read 2481 times)

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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But it's definitely the reality. It will create a snowballing situation that will quickly spiral out of control, and the needed cuts will be had one way or the other, neither of which are pretty.

Then the election is irrelevant.  Just sayin'

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We've violated the laws of economics for a good 50 years, and the bill has come due.

I agree.  But I don't think six months makes a difference either way.

Offline Hoodat

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Republicans who are willing to cross party lines so as not to have an extended shutdown now would have done the exact same thing had McCarthy refused a debt-limit increase in April.  It was going to happen one way or the other regardless of who was Speaker. Exactly as we are seeing now.

It was never a matter of refusing a debt ceiling increase.  It was a matter of getting something for it.  Say a 90 day increase in exchange for $80 billion in Covid slush fund money returned to the Fed.  McCarthy gave them 630 days in exchange for nothing.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Yes!

The House Freedom caucus and the terrific 8 who forced a change in the speakership.

The problem is we have too many Establishment Loyalists in the Pub party and not enough Patriots.


So basically those who are not in the Crybaby caucus or who supports so called Establishment Loyalists are not Patriots.  The comment you made proves that you are an idiot.


Not a lot of people within the GOP shares your worldview, and if you want them out, the GOP would be a minority party forever. 
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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It was never a matter of refusing a debt ceiling increase.  It was a matter of getting something for it.  Say a 90 day increase in exchange for $80 billion in Covid slush fund money returned to the Fed.  McCarthy gave them 630 days in exchange for nothing.
That's not how I remember it.

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Roundup: Analyzing House Republicans’ Harmful Debt-Ceiling-and-Cuts Bill

The White House and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy announced an agreement to suspend the debt ceiling on May 27. CBPP President Sharon Parrott released a statement about the deal.

House Republicans used the need to raise the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip to try to force a set of unpopular, harmful policies that they laid out in their debt-ceiling-and-cuts bill. We collected our analyses of the bill here....

https://www.cbpp.org/blog/roundup-analyzing-house-republicans-harmful-debt-ceiling-and-cuts-bill
« Last Edit: November 19, 2023, 04:24:33 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline bilo

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But it's definitely the reality. It will create a snowballing situation that will quickly spiral out of control, and the needed cuts will be had one way or the other, neither of which are pretty.

We've violated the laws of economics for a good 50 years, and the bill has come due.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Ray Dalio mentioned this on CNBC last week when asked about interest rates and Bonds. He tried to soft peddle his answer but he was clear the deficits are so extreme that bonds will be out of control if something isn't done.

I know the Pub talking point is wait until 2025 and give us control of the House, Senate and White House. I place no stock in that position. If the House won't break the CR cycle now why do we think they will do it later. Anybody remember the refrain about how they would get rid of obamacare?

Probably the best we can hope for is a 20-30 year cycle of economic stagnation similar to what Japan has been experiencing.
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Offline bilo

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The best tool the Conservatives had (the debt ceiling limit) Trump's boy Kevin McCarthy handed over gift-wrapped to the Dems last April.  And not just until the end of the fiscal year either.  He gifted them this until after the election, forfeiting the opportunity for Republicans to use this as an election issue.  The Dems will get another $4 trillion in deficit spending to funnel into their election coffers.

The terrific 8 saw this and led the ouster of McCarthy to try and get the House to follow through on their last option, the appropriation process. Speaker Johnson failed on this as well. We are kidding ourselves if we think the Pubs will throw down and fight another CR in January 2024. It's an election year. We will start hearing the same old propaganda after new year's that the Pubs really need the House, Senate and POTUS to change things.
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Offline bilo

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So basically those who are not in the Crybaby caucus or who supports so called Establishment Loyalists are not Patriots.  The comment you made proves that you are an idiot.


Not a lot of people within the GOP shares your worldview, and if you want them out, the GOP would be a minority party forever.

Yes
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Then the election is irrelevant.  Just sayin'

You're not far from the truth. But I'd still rather have decent GOP leadership during a depression.
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Offline Hoodat

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That's not how I remember it.

Quote
Roundup: Analyzing House Republicans’ Harmful Debt-Ceiling-and-Cuts Bill

The White House and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy announced an agreement to suspend the debt ceiling on May 27. CBPP President Sharon Parrott released a statement about the deal.

House Republicans used the need to raise the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip to try to force a set of unpopular, harmful policies that they laid out in their debt-ceiling-and-cuts bill. We collected our analyses of the bill here....

https://www.cbpp.org/blog/roundup-analyzing-house-republicans-harmful-debt-ceiling-and-cuts-bill

Gee, no bias there.
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So basically those who are not in the Crybaby caucus or who supports so called Establishment Loyalists are not Patriots.  The comment you made proves that you are an idiot.


Not a lot of people within the GOP shares your worldview, and if you want them out, the GOP would be a minority party forever.

The fact that there are Democrats posing as Republicans is well known. Some right here on this forum.
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Hoodat

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The fact that there are Democrats posing as Republicans is well known. Some right here on this forum.

You got that right.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@Maj. Bill Martin

I know the Pub talking point is wait until 2025 and give us control of the House, Senate and White House. I place no stock in that position.

It's not a "refrain".  It's a 100% accurate recognition of political realities that aren't changing before the next round of elections.  We can wish it was different, or pretend that "courage" is enough, but it isn't.  It is a raw numbers game that we are seeing play out that way right before our ours.  I don't see how it is even arguable.

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If the House won't break the CR cycle now why do we think they will do it later.

Because right now, you don't have anything close to the number of votes necessary to support a long holdout.  With a bigger margin, you might.  Again, I don't see how that is arguable as a matter of simple math.

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Anybody remember the refrain about how they would get rid of obamacare?

Sure.  To pass actual legislation, you need control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency.  That's a prerequisite, but it doesn't guarantee success.  It got sunk by one vote - McCain's.

You guys are talking about what you want to happen, or what you believe is necessary.  I'm just talking the reality of having enough votes.  And right now, we don't.  Changing Speakers didn't change that vote count one bit, and might have actually made it worse by destroying any sense of conference solidarity.

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Probably the best we can hope for is a 20-30 year cycle of economic stagnation similar to what Japan has been experiencing.

I agree.

My point all along has been that even if things are bad right now, they are going to continue to get worse if we can't get more control of Congress in 2025.  Smartest course we had was to go with that 8% cuts to the CR, then focus on the best achievable goals possie until the next election.

Instead, we've done the political equivalent of a Japanese banzai suicide attack - an all-out insistence on immediate victory no matter the likelihood of success, and no matter the negative repercussions.

I just think that's dumb.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2023, 06:40:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Hoodat

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Anybody remember the refrain about how they would get rid of obamacare?

I sure as hell do.  Republicans want Obamacare just as much as do the Democrats.  That one piece of legislation is bankrupting our country.  And Republicans won't lift a finger to stop it.
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Offline Mod5

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Knock it off, now!  Don't make it personal.

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Knock it off, now!  Don't make it personal.

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Ban me if you want, I am not putting up with that 10 year old mind in a Star Trek Uni.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I sure as hell do.  Republicans want Obamacare just as much as do the Democrats.  That one piece of legislation is bankrupting our country.  And Republicans won't lift a finger to stop it.

Repealing Obamacare requires an act of legislation, which means House, Senate, and Presidency.  There has only been a single two year period since Obamacare was passed where those conditions existed.  The deeply-hated Paul Ryan rammed a repeal of its core elements through the House, but McCain sank it by a single vote in the Senate.

Don't blame "the GOP".  Blame some individuals, and the Dems who uniformly voted against repeal.  And maybe Trump for needlessly alienating McCain into casting a "no" vote just out of spite.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2023, 02:41:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

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https://youtu.be/UUTF6HIc0u4

Bump, and a Must Read for every Briefer, and especailly for every Trump supporting Briefer who seems fine with DJT's out of control fiscal philosphy.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Bump, and a Must Read for every Briefer, and especailly for every Trump supporting Briefer who seems fine with DJT's out of control fiscal philosphy.

I still don't get the dichotomy of Trump supporters railing against Congressional spending while simultaneously dismissing Trump's lack of concern about spending. It's intellectual schizophrenia.

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I still don't get the dichotomy of Trump supporters railing against Congressional spending while simultaneously dismissing Trump's lack of concern about spending. It's intellectual schizophrenia.

As I have said before, there are apparently many things you don't get!
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Gee, no bias there.

Tons of bias.  But it still stands for the fact that McCarthy didn't just give it away freely without trying to get anything in return.

Right?

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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As I have said before, there are apparently many things you don't get!

Apparently not.

Offline Hoodat

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Tons of bias.  But it still stands for the fact that McCarthy didn't just give it away freely without trying to get anything in return.

Right?

Without trying? Seriously?



I don't give a damn what he tried to get.  I care about what he actually got.  And the answer to that question is a big fat nothing.  McCarthy raised the debt ceiling until after the 2024 election, and in return got nothing.  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.  One big fat steamy turd.  McCarthy then tried to polish that turn with promises in spending cuts over the next ten years, which is the same bullshit the GOPe has been feeding us since Boehner.

The debt ceiling increase was our best opportunity to affect change.  And McCarthy stabbed each and every one of us in the back.  Damn him, and damn all of Trump's GOPe buddies.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Without trying? Seriously?



I don't give a damn what he tried to get.  I care about what he actually got.

Fair point as long as you apply that exact same standard to the 8 who decided to throw out McCarthy.  Not the intentions, not what they tried to do, but the bottom line, end result.  Which as far as I can tell is an even worse CR than they rejected from McCarthy.

 
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And the answer to that question is a big fat nothing.

That is flatly not true.  There was a lot of stuff in that bill besides a clean debt ceiling increase, so I'll just put it here:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/30/politics/whats-in-the-debt-ceiling-deal/index.html

Maybe you think the GOP and their 4 vote margin could have gotten more (I don't), but to say they got nothing is false