Ron DeSantis defends banning pro-Palestinian groups from Florida colleges: ‘Not cancel culture’

[libertybele]

Ron DeSantis defends banning pro-Palestinian groups from Florida colleges: ‘Not cancel culture’

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican presidential candidate, on Sunday defended his call to ban pro-Palestinian groups from state colleges as Israel expands its ground offensive in Gaza following Hamas' attack on Oct. 7.

In an exclusive interview on “Meet the Press,” NBC News' Kristen Welker asked DeSantis to respond to Vivek Ramaswamy, one of his rivals for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, who insisted that such a move would violate the First Amendment rights of the students. Ramaswamy, who trails DeSantis in polls, tweeted: "It’s a shameful political ploy. ... It’s unconstitutional. It’s utter hypocrisy for someone who railed against left-wing cancel culture.”

DeSantis pushed back on Ramaswamy’s comments: “This is not cancel culture.”

“This group, they themselves said in the aftermath of the Hamas attack that they don’t just stand in solidarity, that they are part of this Hamas movement,” he said. “And so, yeah, you have a right to go out and demonstrate, but you can’t provide material support to terrorism.”

DeSantis accused pro-Palestinian groups on campuses of having “linked themselves to Hamas.”

“And so we absolutely decertified them. They should not get one red cent of taxpayer dollars,” he said. “And we also have strong laws in Florida against fundraising for groups like Hamas, and we are enforcing those vigorously. It’s not a First Amendment issue. That’s a material support to terrorism issue.”

As of Sunday morning, more than 8,000 people, including women and children, have been killed in Gaza since the escalation began, according to Palestinian health officials. In Israel, about 1,400 people have died.....................

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-defends-banning-palestinian-groups-florida-colleges-not-c-rcna122663

[bigheadfred]

Good.

[Smokin Joe]

Good.

Yep!

[Right_in_Virginia]

Wow, this is a poorly written article.  It raises more questions than it answers----

Are the members of the student organization , "Students for Justice in Palestine", American citizens?
How is material aid or resources to a terrorist organization, legally prohibited in Florida, defined?
How is "anti-Semitism", also legally prohibited in Florida, defined?

These omissions seem to point to a potential First Amendment conflict. DeSantis may want to preemptively answer these three questions.

[Hoodat]

Wow, this is a poorly written article.  It raises more questions than it answers----

Are the members of the student organization , "Students for Justice in Palestine", American citizens?
How is material aid or resources to a terrorist organization, legally prohibited in Florida, defined?
How is "anti-Semitism", also legally prohibited in Florida, defined?

These omissions seem to point to a potential First Amendment conflict. DeSantis may want to preemptively answer these three questions.

Three questions that have absolutely ZERO to do with the lead post.

And no, there is no First Amendment conflict here.  None.  Zip.  Nada. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Three questions that have absolutely ZERO to do with the lead post.

Of course they do ----- they're raised by the article.  Read the article in full, including the answers from DeSantis.

And no, there is no First Amendment conflict here.  None.  Zip.  Nada.

This determination would depend on the citizenship of those affected, the definitions of material aid or resources to a terrorist organization in Florida's law, and also the definition of anti-Semitism in Florida's law  ---- would it not?

[Wingnut]

As of Sunday morning, more than 8,000 people, including women and children, have been killed in Gaza since the escalation began, according to Palestinian health officials.

The press constantly promotes this number without any proff whatsoever.  The only carnage I have seen is a few dead Honda civics in a hospital parking lot.  An Hamas did that.

[the OlLine Rebel]

The press constantly promotes this number without any proff whatsoever.  The only carnage I have seen is a few dead Honda civics in a hospital parking lot.  An Hamas did that.

Don’t be afraid. Why does it matter?  They have every right after such a personal coordinated attack from different angles butchered1300 Israelis in ambush.

We should have beaten the hell out of Moslem countries for 9/11. 3000 people in the space of 2 hours were butchered.  My mentor at the time thought there should be “Operation Sea of Glass” -bombing all of them to smithereens. He was a young guy too.
No shame in killing off thousands in retaliation.

[Hoodat]

Of course they do ----- they're raised by the article.  Read the article in full, including the answers from DeSantis.

I did read it.  Now your questions:

Are the members of the student organization , "Students for Justice in Palestine", American citizens?

Their citizenship doesn't matter.  It has no relevance at all to the actions taken by DeSantis.

How is material aid or resources to a terrorist organization, legally prohibited in Florida, defined?

Right here:  https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/269/BillText/er/PDF

How is "anti-Semitism", also legally prohibited in Florida, defined?

See above.

These omissions seem to point to a potential First Amendment conflict. DeSantis may want to preemptively answer these three questions.

Seem to?  Straight out of Democratic Party talking points.  But then you already knew you were parroting the DNC line.  As for the First Amendment, there is no violation here.  Not only was no individual denied the right of free speech, assembly, religion, etc, no act of Congress was involved here either.  But you knew that already, too.  We already went through this with your false claims about DeSantis denying Disney their Constitutional rights (also straight out of Democrat Party talking points).  Yet when asked repeatedly to show how the Constitution was violated, you remained silent knowing it was a lie  Yet here you are once again pushing the same type of lie.  It's what you do.

This determination would depend on the citizenship of those affected, the definitions of material aid or resources to a terrorist organization in Florida's law, and also the definition of anti-Semitism in Florida's law  ---- would it not?

Nope.  This is about state education funds that go towards funding school groups.  It has nothing to do with individual rights, citizenship, etc.  If a college club group applies for club funding from a college, they must meet certain criteria.  And if they violate those terms, their funding can be revoked.  This is just basic common sense.  Your obsession with bashing DeSantis over something this simple makes you look like a complete fool.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Their citizenship doesn't matter.  It has no relevance at all to the actions taken by DeSantis.

Right here:  https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/269/BillText/er/PDF

Seem to?  Straight out of Democratic Party talking points.  But then you already knew you were parroting the DNC line.  As for the First Amendment, there is no violation here.  Not only was no individual denied the right of free speech, assembly, religion, etc, no act of Congress was involved here either.  But you knew that already, too.  We already went through this with your false claims about DeSantis denying Disney their Constitutional rights (also straight out of Democrat Party talking points).  Yet when asked repeatedly to show how the Constitution was violated, you remained silent knowing it was a lie  Yet here you are once again pushing the same type of lie.  It's what you do.

Nope.  This is about state education funds that go towards funding school groups.  It has nothing to do with individual rights, citizenship, etc.  If a college club group applies for club funding from a college, they must meet certain criteria.  And if they violate those terms, their funding can be revoked.  This is just basic common sense.  Your obsession with bashing DeSantis over something this simple makes you look like a complete fool.

Thanks for the thoughtful post @Hoodat

Find any info on the legal definition of material aid or resources to terrorists referenced in the Desantis interview?  I didn't find any mention of this in the PDF you linked to, or the legal definition of anti-Semitism.

Here's the part of the interview about this ---

DeSantis last week ordered two state universities to deactivate chapters of Students for Justice in Palestine, as they had purportedly violated state laws prohibiting antisemitism, according to the governor’s office.

Welker also asked DeSantis to clarify that he is “citing the Florida law that says ‘one cannot give material aid or resources to a terrorist organization.’”

“Do you have any support that they’re actually doing that?” Welker asked, referring to pro-Palestinian groups in state colleges.

DeSantis replied: “Their own words are saying they’re part of this organization, that they don’t just stand in solidarity, that they don’t just support what they did, but that this is their movement too.”

“So once you hitch your wagon to a group like Hamas, that takes you out of the realm of normal activity, and that’s something that we’re going to take action against,” he added. “So we believe we’re totally justified within the law.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-defends-banning-palestinian-groups-florida-colleges-not-c-rcna122663

FWIW, I think the First Amendment applies to every citizen, even idiot, know-it-all college kids --- so the legal definition of "material aid and resources" to terrorists is key, as is itemizing the illegal offense(s).  The same requirements should also apply to "anti-Semitism"

Without these definitions, it could be penalty based on words ---- speech.  And speech is supposed to be free.   

Thanks.

[LMAO]

If this was attempted,  the courts would probably intervene.

Our side needs to be careful that we just don’t become a right wing version of cancel culture

[the OlLine Rebel]

If this was attempted,  the courts would probably intervene.

Our side needs to be careful that we just don’t become a right wing version of cancel culture

You all are right that we have to be careful.

OTOH, is not condoning a terrorist organization a form of threats when you publicly “demonstrate”?  Threats are not looked upon as mere “free speech”.

And by the way, the whole point of “free speech” was such that one would not be jailed or punished directly. It did not guarantee one would be able to spout one’s thoughts out on a soapbox in the town square.

[Hoodat]

Thanks for the thoughtful post @Hoodat

Find any info on the legal definition of material aid or resources to terrorists referenced in the Desantis interview?  I didn't find any mention of this in the PDF you linked to, or the legal definition of anti-Semitism.

The group in question - Students for Justice in Palestine - came out in support of Hamas' actions.  They even distributed a toolkit to its members calling for the total annihilation of the Jewish state and elimination of Jews from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea by any means necessary:  https://nationalpost.com/news/hamas-support-students-justice-in-palestine

DeSantis' action is in response to this statement issued by the Israel on Campus Coalition detailing the support of violence against Jews by the Students for Justice in Palestine: https://israelcc.org/joint-statement/

The statute provided makes it illegal for anyone to threaten or intimidate anyone on a college campus from remaining on that campus.  This is applicable law.

FWIW, I think the First Amendment applies to every citizen, even idiot, know-it-all college kids ---

Yet again, this has nothing to do with the First Amendment.  Nothing.  Zip.  Nada.

Without these definitions, it could be penalty based on words ---- speech.  And speech is supposed to be free.   

It is free.  No one is denying anyone's right to free speech here.  No one.  The only thing DeSantis did was to stop giving taxpayer money to a Hamas-supporting student organization.  And for some reason, you have a problem with that.

[Hoodat]

And by the way, the whole point of “free speech” was such that one would not be jailed or punished directly. It did not guarantee one would be able to spout one’s thoughts out on a soapbox in the town square.

Exactly.  Actions have consequences.  Walk into your office and start badmouthing your boss in front of everyone.  Sure, you have the right to speak freely.  But your boss also has the right to fire you.  In this case, the State of Florida made a decision to stop handing taxpayer money over to this pro-Hamas group.  And @Right_in_Virginia is not happy about that decision.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

If this was attempted,  the courts would probably intervene.

Our side needs to be careful that we just don’t become a right wing version of cancel culture

Yep. Because the left will eventually try all these same things on conservatives and use all of the same arguments.

[Hoodat]

Yep. Because the left will eventually try all these same things on conservatives and use all of the same arguments.

Been done already.  Conservative groups have been banned from receiving student organization funds for decades.

[LMAO]

  In this case, the State of Florida made a decision to stop handing taxpayer money over to this pro-Hamas group.

I agree with this.

People have the right to free speech but that doesn’t mean that the taxpayers are obligated to pay for your speech

[Right_in_Virginia]

.  In this case, the State of Florida made a decision to stop handing taxpayer money over to this pro-Hamas group.  And @Right_in_Virginia is not happy about that decision.

@Hoodat   I've only asked for more information on the laws Ronny passed and how they have been applied here.  This shouldn't anger you or reduce you to a puddle of insults.  You're a conservative ---- and protecting Constitutionally guaranteed rights should interest you.

[libertybele]

Well @Right_in_Virginia the Hamas movement needs to be nipped in the bud.  There is no telling how many students are U.S. citizens or how many are here illegally.  How many were actually students and how many were not. 

Secondly, each student has the right to safety and the right to voice their opinion, but no group has the right to advocate terrorism against them.


“This is not cancel culture,” DeSantis hit back in a interview on NBC’s Meet the Press before locking Palestinian rights supporters in with supporters of Hamas. DeSantis went on to claim that pro-Palestinian groups on state campuses had “themselves said in the aftermath of the Hamas attack that they don’t just stand in solidarity, that they are part of this Hamas movement”

“You have a right to go out and demonstrate, but you can’t provide material support to terrorism. They’ve linked themselves to Hamas … it’s not a first amendment issue. That’s a material support to terrorism issue,” he said.

He also claimed the group is violating state law. “It is a felony under Florida law to ‘knowingly provide material support ... to a designated foreign terrorist organization’ ... Here, National SJP has affirmatively identified it is part of the Operation Al-Aqsa Flood – a terrorist-led attack.”[/b]

[libertybele]

@Right_in_Virginia  also for your info:

 Executive Order 13224

Bureau of Counterterrorism  https://www.state.gov/executive-order-13224/

https://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2018/775.30

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.30.html

[Right_in_Virginia]

Thanks for the links @libertybele   I'll take a look at the info later this evening.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat You're a conservative ---- and protecting Constitutionally guaranteed rights should interest you.

AGAIN, stop pushing this dishonest narrative about DeSantis violating people's Constitutional rights.  No one's rights are being denied.  There is zero truth in this claim just as there was zero truth in your Disney claim.

[Wingnut]

Thanks for the links @libertybele   I'll take a look at the info later this evening.

You mean you'll check outTrump sites for counterpoints before you reply.