Author Topic: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners  (Read 655 times)

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners

House Republicans live in a world where math is upside down.

In this fantasy land, five can be as powerful as 217; eight as big as 433; and, in a new twist this past week, 99 out of 223 can somehow be turned into a strong majority.

This latest example came Friday, when Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) claimed the nomination for GOP House speaker, despite a clear majority of the full House not wanting him to be their pick.

On Wednesday, Jordan lost the nomination, running a competitive race but only getting 99 votes — about 44 percent of the 223 ballots cast. He offered a tepid endorsement, at best, to the winner, Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.), and then sat back as his allies sabotaged the front-runner.

They told Scalise that they would re-create the drama of January when Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) failed on the first 14 ballots because about 20 hard-right conservatives voted for someone else, forcing him to make key concessions until they let him win on the 15th roll call.

After enduring about 30 hours of this torture, Scalise said no thanks. He will stay put as majority leader and watch as Jordan now faces the same struggles.

McCarthy, Jordan and Scalise’s long history seeps into speaker fight
Before Friday’s new vote, Jordan’s allies, including McCarthy, who was deposed earlier this month, hyped his candidacy enough that expectations were set for him to blow past Scalise’s initial tally. Instead, a last-minute entrant, Rep. Austin Scott (R-Ga.), a backbencher focused on national security issues who never sought a leadership post, embarrassed Jordan with a strong second-place showing.

Jordan received only 124 votes, claiming about 10 of the protest votes from Wednesday that went to write-in candidates or simply stated “present.” He flipped only about 15 of Scalise’s initial supporters. In a second secret ballot that asked Republicans how they would vote in the required public roll call for speaker, 55 doubled down and said they would not support Jordan.

This sets up the same conundrum that felled McCarthy and prompted Scalise to abandon the race: With 221 on their side, Republicans have just four votes to spare if all 212 Democrats vote the other way.

Jordan’s allies have signaled a political-roughshod campaign that will dare his opponents to vote against the far-right Republican in the public, alphabetical roll call on the House floor. They hope they will crumble from fear of retribution from conservative primary voters.

“I think there’s a clear path to get him to 217. But as long as you’re doing secret ballots, it’s a lot harder to get 217. We’ve got to break cover,” Rep. Dusty Johnson (R-S.D.), a leader of a mainstream conservative caucus, told reporters Friday.

But Jordan’s staunchest opponents warned that a pressure campaign would backfire. “Look, when you’re doing it in a positive way, you can usually get a lot,” Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart (R-Fla.), a staunch Scalise backer, told reporters....

Diaz-Balart, who said he would never vote for Jordan, said it would be an arrogant mistake to ignore the adage about catching more flies with honey than vinegar.

“Usually you do it at your own peril,” he said.

After nine months of watching their hard-right flank essentially extort McCarthy, this band of establishment Republicans has declared that it’s time to stop rewarding the hostage-takers. Instead of giving in to Jordan, they want to adopt the very same strategy: minority-rule tactics to sabotage him....

So now the Diaz-Balart wing plans to force Jordan to swallow some of the same medicine he has delivered throughout the years.

All these minority-rule moments turn the tables on a GOP conference that used to assert the “Hastert rule,” an unofficial standard often imposed by J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), the House speaker from 1999 into 2007. It said legislation that did not have the support of “the majority of the majority” would not get a vote on the House floor.

Now, the majority of the majority no longer rules, given that both McCarthy and Scalise had such support, as Jordan now does.

Instead, a small bloc — sometimes five, sometimes eight, sometimes 20, perhaps 99 — has turned the math upside down.

With the new “Jordan rule,” it’s the minority of the majority that matters most.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/14/jim-jordan-speaker-minority-rule/
« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 02:49:37 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2023, 02:57:10 pm »
The GOP will end up with Hakeem Jeffries as speaker of a GOP-controlled House.  Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2023, 03:46:15 pm »
The GOP will end up with Hakeem Jeffries as speaker of a GOP-controlled House.  Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'd be more sympathetic if it was going to make a big difference in terms of legislation passed, but it won't.  We're just not going to get any conservative legislation passed with a Democrat president and Senate.  And some form of continuing resolution is going to be passed, which was inevitable since the results of the midterms.

Just a bad time for conservatives to have gone all-in.

Online Free Vulcan

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2023, 04:39:22 pm »
Quote
After nine months of watching their hard-right flank essentially extort McCarthy, this band of establishment Republicans has declared that it’s time to stop rewarding the hostage-takers. Instead of giving in to Jordan, they want to adopt the very same strategy: minority-rule tactics to sabotage him....

Maybe they should follow the rules they've been telling conservatives they must follow for all these years to get on board and be a team player.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2023, 04:53:54 pm »
Maybe they should follow the rules they've been telling conservatives they must follow for all these years to get on board and be a team player.

Certain conservatives refused to follow the "get on board and be a team player" concept with respect to McCarthy and Scalise.  Why should that now be followed with respect to Jordan?

As I said, I am perfectly fine with every member of the House pledging to support on the floor whomever gets a majority within the GOP.  Then, with that understanding in place, you have new nominations and a new vote, and live with the result.  Regardless of who it is.

Fair enough?

« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 05:24:37 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2023, 05:17:08 pm »
Rep. Austin Scott (R-Ga) whom the article mentions...

Has a D Rating at Liberty Score.

https://libertyscore.conservativereview.com/austin-scott

Heritage Score (lifetime 11 years) 78%

https://heritageaction.com/scorecard/members/s001189

Vote Smart 65 (out of 100)

https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/11812/austin-scott

Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Online Hoodat

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2023, 05:30:58 pm »
Maybe they should follow the rules they've been telling conservatives they must follow for all these years to get on board and be a team player.

After 'going along' the last 999 times in a row, Conservatives finally bucked the trend and went against the Establishment.  And those bastards have a hissy fit over the one without acknowledging the previous 999.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2023, 05:43:14 pm »
Certain conservatives refused to follow the "get on board and be a team player" concept with respect to McCarthy and Scalise.

With good reason.  They were lied to.  Except that this isn't the first time they were lied to.  It's just the first time they fought back.  So maybe the Establishment should reflect on the hundreds of times they betrayed Conservatives instead of getting pissed of at Conservatives following through on their word.


As I said, I am perfectly fine with every member of the House pledging to support on the floor whomever gets a majority within the GOP.

That wasn't possible when the Establishment held all the power, threatening anyone daring to deviate away from groupthink with loss of Committee assignments or fully funded primary opponents.  But with  McCarthy, Scalise, and Emmer tossed aside, the threats of retaliation have lessened.  Let the process move forward.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2023, 05:46:36 pm »
Rep. Austin Scott (R-Ga) whom the article mentions...

Has a D Rating at Liberty Score.

https://libertyscore.conservativereview.com/austin-scott

Heritage Score (lifetime 11 years) 78%

https://heritageaction.com/scorecard/members/s001189

Vote Smart 65 (out of 100)

https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/11812/austin-scott

After this vote, we will see which Reps support a Conservative GOP, and which support Democrat-lite.  Let the process proceed.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2023, 11:00:11 pm »
Consider the source of this article...

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2023, 05:44:19 pm »
It appears that giving a small minority a veto over the choice of Speaker is a game that can be played by anyone, which was obvious right from the start.  That's why what Gaetz did back in January and again with the Motion to Vacate was a terrible precedent to set.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 07:46:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2023, 07:50:17 pm »
That wasn't possible when the Establishment held all the power, threatening anyone daring to deviate away from groupthink with loss of Committee assignments or fully funded primary opponents.

Wait a minute.  Back in January, other members did "challenge groupthink", and did run against McCarthy for Speaker. And they weren't punished with loss of Committee assignments.  Hell, the other candidate was Jordan, and he got Judiciary.

Quote
But with  McCarthy, Scalise, and Emmer tossed aside, the threats of retaliation have lessened.  Let the process move forward.
Well, wait a minute.  If it is going to be a fresh start with everyone first pledging to support whomever gets the majority, then that includes McCarthy.  You don't get to throw out everyone you dislike, and then claim that majority rules.

If the majority is going to rule, then they get to pick who they wish, regardless of whether individual members like that candidate or not.  That includes McCarthy, Scalise, Emmert, or anyone else who wishes to run.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 07:56:46 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Some House Republicans try to change the rules so losers become winners
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2023, 07:59:31 pm »
 ////00000////

By that logic, does this mean that the New England Patriots beat the Raiders on Sunday afternoon?  Wow, in that House GOP bizzarro world the Patriots are 5-1.
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