Jordan falls short of 217 votes; minority leader Jeffries gets 212 votes to Jordan’s 200

[bilo]

Ah yes.  "The hardliners".  People who have this archaic belief that people should tell the truth and honor what they say they will do.  What bastards!

I agree with you so strongly that I am looking into buying billboards in the district I'm moving to in FL. depending on how my Congressman votes. If he bails on Jordan I will pose the question "Why are you voting for this guy who fails us when it counts?"

[Kamaji]

Jordan does even worse the second time around:

Jim Jordan Loses on Second Speaker Ballot

Spencer Brown
October 18, 2023

After Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) came up 17 votes short of the magic number needed to secure the speaker's gavel on Tuesday, the House of Representatives gathered again on Wednesday for its second attempt at electing a speaker since Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) was ousted earlier in October.

*  *  *

Again, Jordan was nominated by Republicans and Hakeem Jeffries was nominated by Democrats, and again the clerk proceeded through a roll-call vote of all 433 members who were present in the chamber. Again, Jordan came up short.

The final tally in round two was even worse for Jordan than the first round: there were 199 votes for Jordan, 212 for Jeffries, and 22 votes for other individuals after some who voted for Jordan on Tuesday switched their vote to someone else in the second round, such as Reps. Vern Buchanan (R-FL) and Drew Ferguson (R-GA).

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseDailyPress/status/1714692048270311861

*  *  *

Source:  https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2023/10/18/speaker-vote-round-2-n2630011

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Ah yes.  "The hardliners".  People who have this archaic belief that people should tell the truth and honor what they say they will do.  What bastards!

There's nothing wrong with having strongly conservatives goals.  But you have to think through rationally how best to get there, and that's not what happened here.  It was more like frustration just lashing out rather than a coherent strategy.

We need to elect more conservatives in Congress.  Until that happens, trying to force a conservative Speaker is counterproductive.

When they actually removed McCarthy, who had overwhelming support in the caucus, it was equivalent to kidnappers shooting the only hostage they had   Any leverage they had vanished at that instant.  So, we were left with many of those who voted for McCarthy resentful that the choice of the clear majority was disregarded, and it was completely predictable that some wouldn't fall in line behind Jordan, who had been the choice of the minority.

The true power shifted heavily to the moderate members once McCarthy was gone. That's why conservatives are now powerless to force a result they want.

Just not well-thought out at all.

[bigheadfred]

Continuing dumbassery

[Kamaji]

There's nothing wrong with having strongly conservatives goals.  But you have to think through rationally how best to get there, and that's not what happened here.  It was more like frustration just lashing out rather than a coherent strategy.

We need to elect more conservatives in Congress.  Until that happens, trying to force a conservative Speaker is counterproductive.

When they actually removed McCarthy, it was equivalent to the kidnappers shooting the only hostage they had   Any leverage they had vanished at that instant, which is why conservatives are now powerless to force a result they want.

Just not well-thought out at all.

Exactly.

[Hoodat]

There's nothing wrong with having strongly conservatives goals.  But you have to think through rationally how best to get there, and that's not what happened here.  It was more like frustration just lashing out rather than a coherent strategy.

When he took the job, McCarthy agreed to a list of demands, one of which was to pass separate appropriation bills in place of a continuing resolution.  McCarthy did not get it done.  He did not honor the promise made, primarily because he gave everyone the month of August off (just like the GOP leadership always does) and then have everyone come back and pass a CR (again, just like GOP leadership always does).

Gaetz doesn't need a plan.  He isn't in leadership.  He simply was holding the existing leadership to do what they promised to do.  He wasn't seeking a takeover.  He was simply holding the leadership accountable for their actions.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

When he took the job, McCarthy agreed to a list of demands, one of which was to pass separate appropriation bills in place of a continuing resolution.  McCarthy did not get it done.

He doesn't/didn't have the sole power to do that, and I said back in January that it wouldn't happen.  The problem was the actual rank and file GOP representatives who had to vote for those bills couldn't agree on the numbers.  That's not on McCarthy.  He can't force other representatives to change their votes on appropriations bills.

Gaetz doesn't need a plan.  He isn't in leadership.  He simply was holding the existing leadership to do what they promised to do.  He wasn't seeking a takeover.  He was simply holding the leadership accountable for their actions.

That's where we disagree.   It was a set-up right from the start when Gaetz and a few holdouts demanded concessions that (I believe) Gaetz knew could not be met.  There were a whole bunch of other representatives who resented Gaetz and his small group demanding preferential treatment for his views and allies other that of the majority.  And when those other representatives pushed back on complying with those promises, McCarthy was doomed.

I mean, there have been exactly four times in the last 4+ decades when separate appropriations bills were actually passed.   Four in more than forty years.  The most recent was in the last millenium, and happened when the GOP had a much larger majority in Congress.

Like I said back in January - this deal was doomed from the start, and that was Gaetz's plan all along.  He couldn't shake McCarthy's support after 14 ballots, so he set it up to take him down later.

[bilo]

When he took the job, McCarthy agreed to a list of demands, one of which was to pass separate appropriation bills in place of a continuing resolution.  McCarthy did not get it done.  He did not honor the promise made, primarily because he gave everyone the month of August off (just like the GOP leadership always does) and then have everyone come back and pass a CR (again, just like GOP leadership always does).

Gaetz doesn't need a plan.  He isn't in leadership.  He simply was holding the existing leadership to do what they promised to do.  He wasn't seeking a takeover.  He was simply holding the leadership accountable for their actions.

Gaetz has the good sense to recognize the direction we are headed in is a disaster. The Bond Vigilantes are pushing yields higher and higher and Treasury is still having more difficulty selling the longer term debt. In the end we will end up with the Federal Reserve buying most of the longer term bonds and the world will move even more  quickly to end the dollar's reign as the world reserve currency. What this means for those who are retired is your dollar will buy less and less. What this means for those starting out in life buying a home is going to get tougher and tougher.

The bill is coming due. This year alone interest payments on the debt are going to be about what the defense budget is. The interest payments are only going to go up, even if interest rates were to drop because we keep adding TRILLIONS to the debt. Gaetz is fighting to change the course we are on.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The Bond Vigilantes are pushing yields higher and higher and Treasury is still having more difficulty selling the longer term debt. In the end we will end up with the Federal Reserve buying most of the longer term bonds and the world will move even more  quickly to end the dollar's reign as the world reserve currency. What this means for those who are retired is your dollar will buy less and less. What this means for those starting out in life buying a home is going to get tougher and tougher.

The bill is coming due. This year alone interest payments on the debt are going to be about what the defense budget is. The interest payments are only going to go up, even if interest rates were to drop because we keep adding TRILLIONS to the debt.

I agree with all that.  But you're not going to be able to stop that overnight with a 4 vote margin in the House, and nothing else.  The best you can do realistically is slow it down, and try to win the next election with fiscal conservatives.

Again, the hardliners killed 8% cuts, which meant we got stuck with no cuts at all.  How does that help the problems you listed??

[bilo]

I agree with all that.  But you're not going to be able to stop that overnight with a 4 vote margin in the House, and nothing else.  The best you can do realistically is slow it down, and try to win the next election with fiscal conservatives.

Again, the hardliners killed 8% cuts, which meant we got stuck with no cuts at all.  How does that help the problems you listed??

No one expected it to be turned around over night. The first step is to return to a process that is already required by law, passing appropriation bills that go through a committee process and then get voted on in an open process on the House floor. The House hasn't done this in 26 years and the debt has exploded.

The Establishment Loyalists con us with the "we are cutting X%" in 2 ways. The cuts are either cuts in the rate of growth, or are in the out years of the deal. It never happens.

Also, the wait till we have a bigger majority never works either. The Establishment Loyalists told us the same thing with Obamacare. We gave them the House, then the Senate and finally the Presidency. Obamacare is still here, just waiting for the Rats to expand it.

There is never going to be a great time to fight this battle over spending and now we are going to find out which "MAGA" Establishment Loyalists, like Ken Buck, need to go.

[kevindavis007]

@CryptidPolitics
Matt Gaetz is desperately hoping his Speaker stunt works out, otherwise he is going to be DOA in his 2026 gubernatorial campaign.

[kevindavis007]

No one expected it to be turned around over night. The first step is to return to a process that is already required by law, passing appropriation bills that go through a committee process and then get voted on in an open process on the House floor. The House hasn't done this in 26 years and the debt has exploded.

The Establishment Loyalists con us with the "we are cutting X%" in 2 ways. The cuts are either cuts in the rate of growth, or are in the out years of the deal. It never happens.

Also, the wait till we have a bigger majority never works either. The Establishment Loyalists told us the same thing with Obamacare. We gave them the House, then the Senate and finally the Presidency. Obamacare is still here, just waiting for the Rats to expand it.

There is never going to be a great time to fight this battle over spending and now we are going to find out which "MAGA" Establishment Loyalists, like Ken Buck, need to go.

 

[Kamaji]

No one expected it to be turned around over night. The first step is to return to a process that is already required by law, passing appropriation bills that go through a committee process and then get voted on in an open process on the House floor. The House hasn't done this in 26 years and the debt has exploded.

The Establishment Loyalists con us with the "we are cutting X%" in 2 ways. The cuts are either cuts in the rate of growth, or are in the out years of the deal. It never happens.

Also, the wait till we have a bigger majority never works either. The Establishment Loyalists told us the same thing with Obamacare. We gave them the House, then the Senate and finally the Presidency. Obamacare is still here, just waiting for the Rats to expand it.

There is never going to be a great time to fight this battle over spending and now we are going to find out which "MAGA" Establishment Loyalists, like Ken Buck, need to go.

Yeah, no.  There are better and worse times to pick a fight, and one of the worst times to do so is when you have no hope of winning.  Gaetz screwed the pooch, and quite possibly the country, because of his own personal pique and his need to virtue-signal.  That is not leadership, that is not picking a necessary fight, that is being a spoilt child.

[jmyrlefuller]

No, this is 100% politics, pure and simple.  It is about influence and perks and ego.  It has nothing to do with issues.

Those who allied themselves with the GOP leadership got certain perks.  And those people are now pissed off that their perks are going away.

If there are five of them, I can definitely see them cutting a deal with Jeffries in exchange for their own pet interests.

Sadly I think that's going to be the end result of this. Five Republicans are going to defect just to end the drama.

[berdie]

If there are five of them, I can definitely see them cutting a deal with Jeffries in exchange for their own pet interests.

Sadly I think that's going to be the end result of this. Five Republicans are going to defect just to end the drama.

Well, it sure won't be the first time a deal has been cut with the Dems is it? Although it won't surprise me I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case. But that is what happens when there is no plan in place.

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/status/1714762403630510490

[jafo2010]

Deal or not, what all this drama will spell is LOST ELECTIONS FOR REPUBLICANS IN NOVEMBER.  The incompetence is overwhelming!!!

[Free Vulcan]

So the moderates are doing what they said made Gaetz a traitor and a scumbag, but apparently now it's ok because it's them.

[Hoodat]

Noah Rothman
@NoahCRothman
·
Follow
First Ukraine aid now SALT. Almost like seeking leadership means failing the kinds purity tests Jordan eagerly imposed on his predecessors.

Not sure what purity test he's talking about here since Jordan voted for McCarthy on all 15 votes last January and again when McCarthy was deposed.

[Hoodat]

Deal or not, what all this drama will spell is LOST ELECTIONS FOR REPUBLICANS IN NOVEMBER.  The incompetence is overwhelming!!!

This won't be on anyone's radar next November.  That's an eternity away.  If anything, Republican voters will still be thinking about McCarthy's Paul Ryan imitation.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Not sure what purity test he's talking about here since Jordan voted for McCarthy on all 15 votes last January and again when McCarthy was deposed.

Jordan is now running as the guy who supposedly can unify the party.

Yet oddly, he was unable to get all his followers to support either McCarthy or Scalise.  If he can't even unify the people who are aligned most closely with him, how does he expect to unify the rest? 

So either Jordan couldn't really lead all his supporters...or he just wasn't trying very hard. Seems like it might have been the latter.  I saw one member who voted against Jordan on the floor say that after Scalise won the conference vote, five of Jordan's supporters stood up and said they'd never vote for Scalise under any circumstances.  And Jordan, who had promised to support Scalise if he won that vote, just sat there and said nothing.  Didn't even try to persuade his supporters otherwise.

So this member said that when he saw Jordan say nothing in response, and not make any effort to follow through on his promise to support Scalise if he won, it "made an impression on him.". Said that then and there he decided not to vote for Jordan.

When he was asked if there was anyway to get him to vote for Jordan as Speaker he said "well, if he takes all the committee assignments away from the 8 who ousted McCarthy, that would do it."

Though that was a good answer.

[kevindavis007]

So the moderates are doing what they said made Gaetz a traitor and a scumbag, but apparently now it's ok because it's them.

Gaetz is a scumbag regardless.

[Free Vulcan]

Gaetz is a scumbag regardless.

Apparently now the moderates are going to share that crown.

[Wingnut]

Gaetz is a scumbag regardless.

I'd say that Gaetz is a sneaky little shit, but that would be an insult to Niedermeyer.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

So the moderates are doing what they said made Gaetz a traitor and a scumbag, but apparently now it's ok because it's them.

So...what is the consistent rule or principle here to which you believe members should be bound?

If the rule is that every member should rally around whichever candidate for Speaker has majority support in the caucus, then McCarthy should have been elected on the first ballot in January and should still be Speaker.

But if that's not the rule, then nobody is obliged to vote for Jordan.

What you guys want is two different rules - one for if a moderate has majority support, and one for if a conservative has the most support.  So conservatives were not obligated to vote for McCarthy, but moderates are required to vote for Jordan.

Some moderates - and even some conservatives - are calling that out as a double standard and are refusing to play by two different sets of rules.