Author Topic: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments  (Read 901 times)

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Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite 'dubious' and 'dangerous' legal arguments: experts

Attorney Sol Wisenberg said there 'is a legal path for states to TRY to remove Trump from the ballot,' but he believes 'that it will fail'

By Houston Keene Fox News
Published September 4, 2023 8:00am EDT

Some on the right and left have claimed that former President Trump could be disqualified from appearing on the 2024 presidential ballot. Several legal experts dismiss that theory as not just implausible but potentially dangerous.

The legal theory goes that Trump could be blocked from the ballot point as Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — the Disqualifications Clause — bars individuals who "have engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against America, or aided those engaged in such, from holding office.

The section also includes a provision allowing Congress to "remove such disability" via "a vote of two-thirds" in each chamber.

However, the argument for the Disqualifications Clause does not hold water, according to multiple legal experts.

George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley says there "are good faith arguments in favor of this claim" but he views the theory as "not simply dubious but dangerous."

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/attempt-bar-trump-from-2024-ballot-gains-steam-despite-dubious-dangerous-legal-arguments-experts
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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2023, 02:31:50 pm »
Without a conviction for insurrection, it'd be very difficult to pull such a maneuver off.

There are two possible paths forward. Both rely upon the Electoral College, where centuries of precedent give state legislators far more control over who votes for what. One is to order the electors to not vote for Trump. This can't be for cause, since that would constitute an unconstitutional bill of attainder. The second is the Uttar Pradesh tactic: declare Trump legally dead.
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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2023, 02:51:41 pm »
Trump would still have to 'qualify' in each state in order to get onto the ballots.  States could decide that he isn't qualified.  Just like Cruz (I believe it was PA) had to jump through legal hoops in order to get onto the ballot.

IF indeed he is convicted of any of the numerous felonies he faces, then that's going to be a whole different scenario.

Either way, IMHO the leftists are going to prevent him from running; one way or the other. 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2023, 03:18:42 pm »
Quote
Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite 'dubious' and 'dangerous' legal arguments: experts

They want to bar him because he doesn't stand a chance of defeating the Dim candidate,right?
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2023, 03:21:20 pm »
Trump is absolutely not worth all this drama.

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2023, 03:21:22 pm »
Trump would still have to 'qualify' in each state in order to get onto the ballots.  States could decide that he isn't qualified.  Just like Cruz (I believe it was PA) had to jump through legal hoops in order to get onto the ballot.

IF indeed he is convicted of any of the numerous felonies he faces, then that's going to be a whole different scenario.

Either way, IMHO the leftists are going to prevent him from running; one way or the other.

@libertybele

They are doing this because they know he doesn't stand a chance of defeating the Dim candidate,and they don't want to see him wasting his time and money running  for the WH,right?
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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2023, 03:55:29 pm »
This is a win-win for the Democrat party

In the unlikely event they’re successful in barring him from the ballot, they win

If he gets the nomination, they win

Fingers crossed that he doesn’t drag other Republicans down with him next year

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2023, 04:18:34 pm »
Trump is absolutely not worth all this drama.
No, but this whole sh*tshow, from the use of FISA and the DOJ to monitor his campaign on the inside, the sham impeachments, and everything since are examples of such egregious weaponization of the assets of government against one man, openly political in nature, and such a gross miscarriage of justice, that the fight transcends the specific target and becomes one of principle.

Or these precedents can be allowed to stand and you can kiss the concepts of a Constitutional Republic and Equal Justice Under the Law goodbye.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2023, 04:19:01 pm »
@libertybele

They are doing this because they know he doesn't stand a chance of defeating the Dim candidate,and they don't want to see him wasting his time and money running  for the WH,right?

@sneakypete they stole one election, they'll steal another.  It's obvious they don't want him seated again.  As for the DEM candidate, I can almost guarantee you it's not going to be Brandon.

It's not that I don't think Trump isn't capable of winning, but what DEM they decide to run will have a major impact.

I absolutely think it is imperative that we seat a CONSERVATIVE! Someone younger, someone more competent and someone without so much baggage.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2023, 04:29:12 pm »
No, but this whole sh*tshow, from the use of FISA and the DOJ to monitor his campaign on the inside, the sham impeachments, and everything since are examples of such egregious weaponization of the assets of government against one man, openly political in nature, and such a gross miscarriage of justice, that the fight transcends the specific target and becomes one of principle.

Or these precedents can be allowed to stand and you can kiss the concepts of a Constitutional Republic and Equal Justice Under the Law goodbye.

 :yowsa: Very well said! @Smokin Joe I fully concur!
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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2023, 04:31:45 pm »
No, but this whole sh*tshow, from the use of FISA and the DOJ to monitor his campaign on the inside, the sham impeachments, and everything since are examples of such egregious weaponization of the assets of government against one man, openly political in nature, and such a gross miscarriage of justice, that the fight transcends the specific target and becomes one of principle.

Or these precedents can be allowed to stand and you can kiss the concepts of a Constitutional Republic and Equal Justice Under the Law goodbye.

I absolutely agree!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2023, 05:51:16 pm »
@sneakypete

They want to bar him because he doesn't stand a chance of defeating the Dim candidate,right?

The mistake we make sometimes is thinking of the Democratic Party and the left as monolithic, with everyone agreeing not only on the goals but on the best political strategy for getting there.  And that just isn't the case.  They are divided on what to do about Trump.  I'd say you could break them down into three basic groups, and I personally know people who would fit in all three.  Maybe there's more, but this is how I'd break them up for now.

1)  The completely obsessed Trump haters.  These people are pure emotion, and want to do anything and everything possible to hurt him because they hate him with every fiber of their being.  So, anything that is against him -- like trying to keep him off the ballot -- they support, and they support it regardless of whether or not it may help him because they aren't really thinking at all.  Tell them that sketchy prosecutions help Trump, and they just don't care.  They just want to vent their own emotional anger in any way they can.

2) Democrats who think he can win.  These people are worried that he can win the general election, so they want to try every legal avenue possible to keep him off the ballot.  They also want him to lose the GOP nomination.  They view these prosecutions as the best chance of doing that, and hope that they can reach enough independents/RINO's to prevent Trump from winning either the nomination or the general election.

3) Democrats who think strategically.  These people don't believe Trump can win the general election, so they want him to be the nominee.  So they try to sabotage other GOP candidates in the hope that Trump will win, and that they can then clobber him in November 2024.  I'd guess that most of them don't expect Biden to be the nominee either.

That's why you can't look for consistency in how "the Democrats" act towards Trump, because they don't all agree on what should be done about him in the first place. 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 05:58:14 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2023, 05:52:12 pm »
No, but this whole sh*tshow, from the use of FISA and the DOJ to monitor his campaign on the inside, the sham impeachments, and everything since are examples of such egregious weaponization of the assets of government against one man, openly political in nature, and such a gross miscarriage of justice, that the fight transcends the specific target and becomes one of principle.

Or these precedents can be allowed to stand and you can kiss the concepts of a Constitutional Republic and Equal Justice Under the Law goodbye.

I agree with that, although there is very much a distinction between fighting these prosecutions on principle, and Trump being the right nominee.

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2023, 05:54:37 pm »
Trump hasn't gotten over 46% of popular vote in his 1st two tries. What makes us think he'll do any better this time?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2023, 08:33:22 pm »
Trump hasn't gotten over 46% of popular vote in his 1st two tries. What makes us think he'll do any better this time?
Just maybe this time the vote counters won't go backwards?
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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2023, 09:03:39 pm »
No, but this whole sh*tshow, from the use of FISA and the DOJ to monitor his campaign on the inside, the sham impeachments, and everything since are examples of such egregious weaponization of the assets of government against one man, openly political in nature, and such a gross miscarriage of justice, that the fight transcends the specific target and becomes one of principle.

Or these precedents can be allowed to stand and you can kiss the concepts of a Constitutional Republic and Equal Justice Under the Law goodbye.

That's right. but the place to do that rests with the courts and the lawmakers, and does not belong on the election stump.

Besides the 'gotcha' and schadenfreude of watching Tumpy ascend the podium, what do you get?

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2023, 09:10:51 pm »
Just maybe this time the vote counters won't go backwards?

Exactly the point.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2023, 11:03:06 pm »
No, but this whole sh*tshow, from the use of FISA and the DOJ to monitor his campaign on the inside, the sham impeachments, and everything since are examples of such egregious weaponization of the assets of government against one man, openly political in nature, and such a gross miscarriage of justice, that the fight transcends the specific target and becomes one of principle.

Or these precedents can be allowed to stand and you can kiss the concepts of a Constitutional Republic and Equal Justice Under the Law goodbye.

@Smokin Joe

And THERE it is!

Like it or not,it makes no difference.

Trump is either allowed to run this time,or it is the end of Free Elections in America unless we have another American Revolution.

The Dims and their RINO butt-buddies are internationalists in business with  the Chinese and anybody else with money to send to their off-shore bank accounts. They are NOTHING  LESS than male and female whores,for sale for cash deposits.

The Dims and the RINO's understand the threat he represents to not only their bank accounts,but to their quest for absolute,unrestricted power to sell America to the highest bidder.

Either Trump wins,or open your arms to welcome "World-Wide Government,Incorporated,based in NYC,Geneva,and other world financial capitals. They will be more than happy to dictate to us all how much of anything we need and will get,and there will NOT be any more popular elections.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2023, 11:09:18 pm »
@sneakypete

The mistake we make sometimes is thinking of the Democratic Party and the left as monolithic, with everyone agreeing not only on the goals but on the best political strategy for getting there.  And that just isn't the case.  They are divided on what to do about Trump.  I'd say you could break them down into three basic groups, and I personally know people who would fit in all three.  Maybe there's more, but this is how I'd break them up for now.

1)  The completely obsessed Trump haters.  These people are pure emotion, and want to do anything and everything possible to hurt him because they hate him with every fiber of their being.  So, anything that is against him -- like trying to keep him off the ballot -- they support, and they support it regardless of whether or not it may help him because they aren't really thinking at all.  Tell them that sketchy prosecutions help Trump, and they just don't care.  They just want to vent their own emotional anger in any way they can.

2) Democrats who think he can win.  These people are worried that he can win the general election, so they want to try every legal avenue possible to keep him off the ballot.  They also want him to lose the GOP nomination.  They view these prosecutions as the best chance of doing that, and hope that they can reach enough independents/RINO's to prevent Trump from winning either the nomination or the general election.

3) Democrats who think strategically.  These people don't believe Trump can win the general election, so they want him to be the nominee.  So they try to sabotage other GOP candidates in the hope that Trump will win, and that they can then clobber him in November 2024.  I'd guess that most of them don't expect Biden to be the nominee either.

That's why you can't look for consistency in how "the Democrats" act towards Trump, because they don't all agree on what should be done about him in the first place.

@Maj. Bill Martin

That is very true of the common citizens,but the common citizens will have next to NO influence in the upcoming Presidential elections,and none at all in any elections after then unless someone as bull-headed as Trump is the Republican nominee,and wins.

As Stalin once noted,"It is not who gets the most votes that is important,it is who COUNTS the votes that matters!"
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2023, 11:09:30 pm »
@Smokin Joe

And THERE it is!

Like it or not,it makes no difference.

Trump is either allowed to run this time,or it is the end of Free Elections in America unless we have another American Revolution.

The Dims and their RINO butt-buddies are internationalists in business with  the Chinese and anybody else with money to send to their off-shore bank accounts. They are NOTHING  LESS than male and female whores,for sale for cash deposits.

The Dims and the RINO's understand the threat he represents to not only their bank accounts,but to their quest for absolute,unrestricted power to sell America to the highest bidder.

Either Trump wins,or open your arms to welcome "World-Wide Government,Incorporated,based in NYC,Geneva,and other world financial capitals. They will be more than happy to dictate to us all how much of anything we need and will get,and there will NOT be any more popular elections.
Oh there might be some sham elections where candidates really don't matter because the Globalists own them all, but that's just to convince the masses they are "free".

They are already trying to put your and my healthcare in the hands of the WHO, who made a complete balls up of COVID, and whose leader was emplaced at the insistence of...the Chinese.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2023, 11:12:29 pm »
That's right. but the place to do that rests with the courts and the lawmakers, and does not belong on the election stump.



@roamer_1

That USED to be true,and the upcoming election will be the test to determine if it remains true.

World Wide Government,Inc is our future if anyone but Trump wins,and even then there might be a lot of civil unrest to insure we remain a free people because unfortunately,our political leadership is now owned,lock,stock,and barrel by international investment firms.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2023, 12:35:15 am »
https://t.co/OAreaC90ax
More valid arguments why it cannot work, although they’ll try.
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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2023, 12:38:26 am »
@roamer_1

That USED to be true,and the upcoming election will be the test to determine if it remains true.

World Wide Government,Inc is our future if anyone but Trump wins,and even then there might be a lot of civil unrest to insure we remain a free people because unfortunately,our political leadership is now owned,lock,stock,and barrel by international investment firms.

No, it's ALWAYS TRUE, @sneakypete
And making this whole damn election about Tumpy instead of the issues is a giant mistake.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2023, 01:11:13 am »
No, it's ALWAYS TRUE, @sneakypete
And making this whole damn election about Tumpy instead of the issues is a giant mistake.

@roamer_1

HorseHillary!

The GIANT mistake here is electing another career politician and hoping things will change,and make no mistake about it,your boy IS a career politician.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Attempt to bar Trump from 2024 ballot gains steam despite legal arguments
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2023, 01:29:00 am »
https://t.co/OAreaC90ax
More valid arguments why it cannot work, although they’ll try.

The Volokh Conspiracy is one of the best legal blogs out there, and I think it's 100% correct on this one too.