Author Topic: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance  (Read 4799 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #75 on: August 25, 2023, 06:27:31 pm »
Her smear campaign against DeSantis will always be just like her worshiping campaign for Trump will always be.  Whatever.

Exposing the lies and contradictions from Ronny and his campaign is not a "smear" @libertybele   Claiming I "worship" Trump is beneath you.

Online GtHawk

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #76 on: August 25, 2023, 06:37:55 pm »
And still managed to win the debate.  Go figure.  :whistle:
Only a liberal would believe they could win something they refused to participate in. :silly:

Online libertybele

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2023, 06:38:33 pm »
Exposing the lies and contradictions from Ronny and his campaign is not a "smear" @libertybele   Claiming I "worship" Trump is beneath you.

So far you haven't proven any supposed DeSantis lies, you've only once again proven bogus Trump talking point. 

Perhaps using the word "worship" was too strong -- "idolize" might be a better term as you refuse to acknowledge Trump's downfalls and failures.

I mean no malice against you @Right_in_Virginia and I think it offensive at some of the mudslinging pointed at you, but you can't expect to spew lies and not get called out for them.  Also, I just think you truly need to look at the bigger picture.
Romans 12:16-21

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Online catfish1957

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2023, 06:40:16 pm »
Exposing the lies and contradictions from Ronny and his campaign is not a "smear" @libertybele   Claiming I "worship" Trump is beneath you.

How about a few lies and contradictions from Tumpy's side?  Being 100.000000% in Trump's camp gives you much less credibility than we Briefers countering your nonstop Orange-fest. 

Like....   How is it remotely conservative or in our best interest to spend $15T of taxpayer money for Freedom Cities?  Inquiring Briefers would like to know.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 06:41:18 pm by catfish1957 »
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Online libertybele

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #79 on: August 25, 2023, 07:01:34 pm »
Something to consider @Right_in_Virginia  Trump not showing up for the debate hurt him. This was the primary debate and I would expect DeSantis' support to continue to rise and Trump's to continue to fall.

.....However, overall, DeSantis still has the most support of all Republicans when they were asked if they were considering voting for him: 67% said they were considering voting for DeSantis after the debate, while 61% said they were considering voting for Trump after the debate. ....................

https://www.theblaze.com/news/poll-who-won-gop-debate
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #80 on: August 25, 2023, 07:14:42 pm »
So far you haven't proven any supposed DeSantis lies, you've only once again proven bogus Trump talking point. 

Methinks you need to read my posts and watch the videos attached.  I have not only proven Ronny's lies and contradictions, I use his actual video taped words to do so.

Quote
Perhaps using the word "worship" was too strong -- "idolize" might be a better term as you refuse to acknowledge Trump's downfalls and failures.

If you're looking for accuracy, you'll use respect, admire and trust rather than worship and idolize. 

Quote
I mean no malice against you @Right_in_Virginia and I think it offensive at some of the mudslinging pointed at you, but you can't expect to spew lies and not get called out for them.  Also, I just think you truly need to look at the bigger picture.

You should have stopped before the "but" @libertybele   I do not lie.  I am the minority on this forum and as such am diligent in presenting sources and documentation.  Debate the content with counter sources and documentation; calling me a liar is false, cowardly and also beneath you.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #81 on: August 25, 2023, 07:28:15 pm »
What does that even mean?

It means that the Trumpers have lost track of what a presidential debate is supposed to look like.

For Trump, winning a debate is not about being right on the issues or having a record of accomplishment. Instead, it's whoever can come up with the most creative insults and nicknames for the other candidates.

That was unheard of in 2016, struck many people as refreshing, and therefore worked.  But it's not going to work in 2024 because a majority of voters are tired of it.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2023, 07:30:36 pm »
You should have stopped before the "but" @libertybele   I do not lie.  I am the minority on this forum and as such am diligent in presenting sources and documentation.  Debate the content with counter sources and documentation; calling me a liar is false, cowardly and also beneath you.

@Right_in_Virginia
Intentional smearing with bullshit articles is against every fiber of what makes a forum.
Carry on if you will... but no one is listening to you anymore. That's between you and your honor... but there will always be someone here to counter your bullcrap, even through the unnecessary noise you are making (intentionally) on this board. You do not lie? But your sources do, as proven over and again. A few poor sources and getting caught up every once in a while is one thing. Slinging raw bullcrap is another. Stop while you might still repair your integrity and regain your respect. Please.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 07:32:26 pm by roamer_1 »

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2023, 07:40:08 pm »
It means that the Trumpers have lost track of what a presidential debate is supposed to look like.

For Trump, winning a debate is not about being right on the issues or having a record of accomplishment. Instead, it's whoever can come up with the most creative insults and nicknames for the other candidates.

That was unheard of in 2016, struck many people as refreshing, and therefore worked.  But it's not going to work in 2024 because a majority of voters are tired of it.

Thanks for trying to explain  my opinion of DeSantis' debate performance. I would be interested on your opinion on how well he did.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online catfish1957

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2023, 07:52:09 pm »
Thanks for trying to explain  my opinion of DeSantis' debate performance. I would be interested on your opinion on how well he did.

@bigheadfred

Good observation, but a few things though.  RDS actaully was in the lower to middle tier of time allowed to respond to questions.  That has some bearing, plus the fact he might want to see the pack thinned before mounting an offensive. We will see soon.

Secondly, I have to ask Fred....  What is your opinion of Trump's planned initiative for construction of Freedom Cities and the estimate $15T price tag to the tax payers?  Shouldn't that be a deal breaker?  Just asking
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Online Kamaji

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2023, 07:53:00 pm »
It means that the Trumpers have lost track of what a presidential debate is supposed to look like.

For Trump, winning a debate is not about being right on the issues or having a record of accomplishment. Instead, it's whoever can come up with the most creative insults and nicknames for the other candidates.

That was unheard of in 2016, struck many people as refreshing, and therefore worked.  But it's not going to work in 2024 because a majority of voters are tired of it.

:thumbsup:

Online mystery-ak

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2023, 08:01:43 pm »
Iowa poll shows DeSantis closing the gap on Trump after first Republican debate
Poll also found that Vivek Ramaswamy 'was simply a placeholder position on the debate stage for core Trump voters'
 By Houston Keene Fox News
Published August 25, 2023 3:00pm EDT

Donald Trump remains on top of the polls among Republican presidential candidates, but the gap between the former president and his onetime political protégé could be narrowing following the first GOP debate.

A new Public Opinion Strategies poll exclusively obtained by Fox News Digital shows Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis closing in on Trump among Iowa voters.

The poll among the 400 Iowa likely GOP caucus-goers included a ballot test that saw DeSantis rose from 14% support up to 21% post-debate.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/iowa-poll-shows-desantis-closing-gap-trump-after-first-republican-debate
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2023, 08:04:48 pm »
Iowa poll shows DeSantis closing the gap on Trump after first Republican debate
Poll also found that Vivek Ramaswamy 'was simply a placeholder position on the debate stage for core Trump voters'
 By Houston Keene Fox News
Published August 25, 2023 3:00pm EDT

Donald Trump remains on top of the polls among Republican presidential candidates, but the gap between the former president and his onetime political protégé could be narrowing following the first GOP debate.

A new Public Opinion Strategies poll exclusively obtained by Fox News Digital shows Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis closing in on Trump among Iowa voters.

The poll among the 400 Iowa likely GOP caucus-goers included a ballot test that saw DeSantis rose from 14% support up to 21% post-debate.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/iowa-poll-shows-desantis-closing-gap-trump-after-first-republican-debate

Would it be insensitive to ask for footage of RIV's head exploding after this news?

Serves Tumpy-orange-crush right for taking the coward's route out this week.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 08:05:41 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2023, 08:06:55 pm »
Thanks for trying to explain  my opinion of DeSantis' debate performance.

I wasn't trying to do that.  My comments were directed at the author of the article and those who agreed with him that this was DeSantis' "big chance".  Presidential primary debates have never previously been judged as sort of a WWE Battle Royale where the "winner" has to toss everyone else over the top rope.  if you're the leader of those participating in the debate, you don't have to wipe out everyone else to have a successful debate.  And I think DeSantis did.

Quote
I would be interested on your opinion on how well he did.

I've given it elsewhere, but okay....

In terms of what I was looking for, I think he did at least as well as he had to do, but not as well as he could have done.  He's primarily a doer, not a talker, and I knew that going in.  I really liked how he was able to point to concrete accomplishments on issues where the others could only drop talking points.  So that was what he's done with CRT and gender stuff in Florida schools, and firing two Soros prosecutors.

There are a few things I didn't like about his performance.  I didn't like: 1) what I took as a bit of weaseling on the abortion question, 2) an at least somewhat ambiguous answer on Ukraine, 3) hesitancy in saying that Pence did the right thing, and 4) looking around before raising his hand to say he'd support Trump even if he got convicted.  None of that is a dealbreaker for me because I'm pretty sure I get where he's coming from on each issue.  But I always prefer direct answers to mushy ones.

In terms of how I think he did in the sense of whether it helps him in the primary, I think it did.  For starters, he's the frontrunner.  Nobody really laid a glove on him, and more importantly, nobody else stood out as someone who could be the one to emerge from this group.  The two governors on the left side are nonfactors.  Christie and Pence are unelectable because of baggage.  Ramaswamy's natural constituency overlaps too much with Trump's, and he's got enough holes in his background that he'll spring more leaks the longer this goes.  Tim Scott came across as a nice guy, but comes across as a lightweight on issues and not really comfortable discussing policy.

That leaves Haley, who probably helped herself marginally but again is likely unelectable because of too much opposition in the party.  Which leaves DeSantis as the guy who looks to have the best chance to emerge from this group as the anti-Trump standard bearer.  The debate put him one step closer to that in my opinion. 

In short, it's the others who need to take advantage of a "big chance" to take out DeSantis, and they didn't.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2023, 08:09:43 pm »
Methinks you need to read my posts and watch the videos attached.  I have not only proven Ronny's lies and contradictions, I use his actual video taped words to do so.

If you're looking for accuracy, you'll use respect, admire and trust rather than worship and idolize. 

You should have stopped before the "but" @libertybele   I do not lie.  I am the minority on this forum and as such am diligent in presenting sources and documentation.  Debate the content with counter sources and documentation; calling me a liar is false, cowardly and also beneath you.

Nope, I wasn't calling you a liar.  Your continual spewing of disinformation has gotten old.
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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2023, 08:11:29 pm »

In terms of what I was looking for, I think he did at least as well as he had to do, but not as well as he could have done.  He's primarily a doer, not a talker, and I knew that going in.  I really liked how he was able to point to concrete accomplishments on issues where the others could only drop talking points.  So that was what he's done with CRT and gender stuff in Florida schools, and firing two Soros prosecutors.



I've read that Calvin Coolidge was not a great or inspiring speaker.  But that doesn't kill the fact that he is one of the greatest POTUS in U.S. History.  And I can see RDS operating in that vein.
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2023, 08:15:38 pm »
That leaves Haley, who probably helped herself marginally but again is likely unelectable because of too much opposition in the party.

Nikki Haley irritated me greatly with her cutesy “If you want something said, ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman” comment.

Let's leave the asinine identity politics to the Democrats, shall we?
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2023, 08:20:15 pm »
You should have stopped before the "but" @libertybele  I do not lie.  I am the minority on this forum and as such am diligent in presenting sources and documentation.

Yes, you do.  Presenting a statement you know to be false is a lie, even if you have attached a source to it.  If I say "the earth is flat", that's a lie because I know it is round...or an oblate spheroid to be precise.  And that is true even if I include a link from the Flat Earth Society saying that it is flat.  That's exactly what you did in this thread.  You presented a statement you knew was false, then linked it to a source you know was wrong.  So, you lied right here:

Untrue.  Over 150M have watched it and scads of positive articles have been published about it.  I, myself, was going to post a couple, but, you know, why waste the bandwidth  :shrug:

and here:

....the interview has been watched and rewatched over 150M times over days (and climbing).

I know you're lying because you're a smart woman.  It has been explained both in this thread and in others that the "views" stat doesn't actually mean that people actually watched the embedded video.  You know that, but claim otherwise anyway.  And you're also smart enough to know that your "150 million and climbing" claim doesn't pass the straight face test (in addition to being contradict by the actual statistics).  But, you push it anyway, hiding behind the claim that you're just "reporting" the information.

In any court of law in this country -- and among the vast majority of the citizenry with common sense -- you can't escape the reality that you told a lie simply by saying "well, someone else said it, and I was just repeating what they said."

So yeah, you lie.  It would be nicer if you didn't, but you do.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 08:25:28 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #93 on: August 25, 2023, 08:20:59 pm »
Nikki Haley irritated me greatly with her cutesy “If you want something said, ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman” comment.

Let's leave the asinine identity politics to the Democrats, shall we?

My wife made the exact same comment.  I think it's actually insulting to women to assume you can get their vote just by pandering on gender identity.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #94 on: August 25, 2023, 08:24:27 pm »
I've read that Calvin Coolidge was not a great or inspiring speaker.  But that doesn't kill the fact that he is one of the greatest POTUS in U.S. History.  And I can see RDS operating in that vein.

Yup.  I mean, I wish he was more charismatic.  He's not terrible...but he's not great either. And he did win massively in Florida, so there clearly is an appeal.

What I really like about DeSantis is that he's not afraid of the details.  He'll dig and read on his own to learn what he needs to know.  The Swamp, ultimately, is the administrative/regulatory state, and you really need to have a solid understanding of how that works legally if you're going to take it on.  DeSantis has that.  He'll know which threads to pull to start the unravelling, and he showed in some of his Florida moves that he's pretty good at figuring a legal way around roadblocks.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #95 on: August 25, 2023, 08:32:20 pm »
@bigheadfred

Good observation, but a few things though.  RDS actaully was in the lower to middle tier of time allowed to respond to questions.  That has some bearing, plus the fact he might want to see the pack thinned before mounting an offensive. We will see soon.

Secondly, I have to ask Fred....  What is your opinion of Trump's planned initiative for construction of Freedom Cities and the estimate $15T price tag to the tax payers?  Shouldn't that be a deal breaker?  Just asking

I'm not ruling DeSantis out. He is, for the most part, saying the right things. But his delivery was off, Just my opinion. I would have liked for him to be clear on Ukraine.

As far as Trump goes, he pissed me off after the 2016 election when he said people who didn't vote for him weren't Americans (or something like that). I didn't vote for him in 16. I put my mark by his name in 20 because I didn't like the way the National Popular Vote issue was trending. It wasn't a vote FOR Trump.

As far as Freedom Cities goes it is farcical bullshit.

Baby bonuses is another stupid idea he got from Orban in Hungary. It is a big no go.

Another thing. I am NOT on the Trump Train. It has been conflated that my remarks /criticisms of others makes me a MAGA Trumpist. That is not true. I simply have no interest in participating in the pile on. @Maj. Bill Martin  @Kamaji  @catfish1957



« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 09:07:37 pm by bigheadfred »
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #96 on: August 25, 2023, 08:35:47 pm »
Thanks for the in depth reply. It is most helpful. @Maj. Bill Martin
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #97 on: August 25, 2023, 08:37:11 pm »
I'm not ruling DeSantis out. He is, for the most part, saying the right things. But his delivery was off, Just my opinion. I would have liked for him to be clear on Ukraine.

As far as Trump goes, he pissed me off after the 2016 election when he said people who didn't vote for him weren't Americans (or something like that). I didn't vote for him in 16. I put my mark by his name in 20 because I didn't like the way the National Popular Vote issue was trending. It wasn't a vote FOR Trump.

As far as Freedom Cities goes it is farcical bullshit.

Baby bonuses is another stupid idea he got from Orban in Hungary. It is a big no go.

Another thing. I am NOT on the Trump Train. It has been conflated that my remarks /criticisms of others makes me a MAGA Trumpist. That is not true. I simply have no interest in participating in the pile on. @Maj. Bill Martin  @Kamaji

Very well said @bigheadfred
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online libertybele

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #98 on: August 25, 2023, 09:03:06 pm »
Nikki Haley irritated me greatly with her cutesy “If you want something said, ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman” comment.

Let's leave the asinine identity politics to the Democrats, shall we?

 888high58888
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ron DeSantis Blew His Big Chance
« Reply #99 on: August 25, 2023, 09:20:18 pm »
I'm not ruling DeSantis out. He is, for the most part, saying the right things. But his delivery was off, Just my opinion. I would have liked for him to be clear on Ukraine.

As far as Trump goes, he pissed me off after the 2016 election when he said people who didn't vote for him weren't Americans (or something like that). I didn't vote for him in 16. I put my mark by his name in 20 because I didn't like the way the National Popular Vote issue was trending. It wasn't a vote FOR Trump.

As far as Freedom Cities goes it is farcical bullshit.

Baby bonuses is another stupid idea he got from Orban in Hungary. It is a big no go.

Another thing. I am NOT on the Trump Train. It has been conflated that my remarks /criticisms of others makes me a MAGA Trumpist. That is not true. I simply have no interest in participating in the pile on. @Maj. Bill Martin  @Kamaji  @catfish1957

Very well said.