Author Topic: Live Thread: Hunter Biden set to plead guilty to tax charges — as lawyer tries to pull dirty trick a  (Read 3014 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Hunter Biden Could be Jailed if He Consumes Drugs, Alcohol as Part of Release Conditions

President Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, could be jailed if he consumes any drugs or alcohol, according to the conditions of his release signed by U.S. District Judge Maryellen Noreika.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/07/26/hunter-biden-could-be-jailed-if-he-consumes-drugs-alcohol-as-part-of-release-conditions/
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Ex-Clinton DOJ Official: DOJ Will Say Hunter Probe Ongoing as ‘Shield’ from Oversight, DOJ Has Reason to Seek ‘Cover’

On Wednesday’s broadcast of CNN’s “Inside Politics,” former federal prosecutor Shanlon Wu, who worked in the Justice Department during the Clinton administration, stated that the DOJ’s assertion during the Hunter Biden plea hearing that the investigation is ongoing will be “like  a complete shield” for the Department of Justice to avoid oversight from Congress and that while one reason for the posture that the investigation is ongoing could be simply because a plea deal hadn’t been reached, but another potential reason is for that “political cover” to duck Congress. “And that will help him when he goes to the Hill to say, oh, I have an ongoing investigation, can’t talk about it.”

Wu said, “So, this particular fact that they kept saying — Weiss keeps saying it’s an ongoing investigation struck me as troubling from the beginning, as a defense counsel — putting on that hat. Now, he could be saying it for a couple of reasons: One, it could be…that they hadn’t done the plea deal yet. So, therefore, it’s still open. Two, he could be saying it for kind of political cover. And that will help him when he goes to the Hill to say, oh, I have an ongoing investigation, can’t talk about it.”

Later, host Dana Bash asked, “What about, Shan, the point that Manu just made, which I think is a really critical one, that the House Republicans may, even though they do have oversight ability — that’s basically basic in the Constitution — but it might be harder for them to get what information they’re striving for if the DOJ says, no, you can’t do this, because we’re investigating first?”

Wu answered, “He’s absolutely right. It’ll be much harder. And that’s going to be like a complete shield for DOJ. If Weiss is testifying, he can just keep going back to the fact that, I told you it’s an open investigation, I’ve said that in court as well. Now, it does give them a little bit more to dig on too, which is to say, what happened in court? Was there pressure on you to give this broader deal and you were trying to put something over on the court? They can ask him about that. He might have a slightly harder time completely shutting that off, but what he should say is, that’s prosecutorial discretion. That’s between us and the defendant.”

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/07/26/ex-prosecutor-wu-doj-will-say-hunter-probe-ongoing-as-shield-from-oversight-doj-has-reason-to-seek-cover/
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Offline mountaineer

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@sneakypete
Is there any real possibility  of additional charges coming out of this court case?
Probably not with this DOJ.

 What are the chances of any  felonies being prosecuted once the Biden Crime Family is out of office,given the FACT that the DNC is likely  to  use every resource it has to prevent this from happening because at this point there seems to be no way of escaping the fact that the DNC knew all about this and did nothing to stop it.
I don't know. Statutes of limitations may come into play, though

BTW,what would be the reaction of you  Trump haters if this did happen?
I'm not a Trump hater, and so cannot answer your question.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Hunter Biden plea: Collapsed deal leaves first son's lawyers furious
by Julia Johnson, Politics Reporter
July 27, 2023 08:12 AM

Lawyers for President Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden were fuming hours after a tumultuous Wednesday court hearing that left the first son in legal limbo.

Hunter Biden's attorneys were agitated by Judge Maryellen Noreika's thorough questioning of lawyers for the defense and prosecution on the terms of the plea deal agreed to, according to Axios. The interrogation revealed varying understandings of the deal from the two sides.


Hunter Biden reported Wednesday morning to a U.S. District Court in Wilmington, Delaware, and was expected to plead guilty to tax misdemeanor charges as part of an announced plea deal. He was also expected to enter a diversion agreement for a felony gun charge.

However, the deal appeared to fall apart during the hearing, with Hunter Biden pleading not guilty to the charges. A major sticking point for Noreika was a provision that would preclude the Department of Justice from enforcing the Foreign Agents Registration Act against Hunter Biden if he were found to be in violation. The DOJ said it would reserve the right to charge Hunter Biden under the act if necessary.

Following deliberation between the sides and questioning from Noreika, the judge delayed ruling on the final agreement until further briefings are obtained from each side. They are expected to convene again in the near future, within 4-6 weeks.

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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hunter-biden-legal-team-outraged-plea-deal
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Offline sneakypete

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Hunter Biden Could be Jailed if He Consumes Drugs, Alcohol as Part of Release Conditions

President Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, could be jailed if he consumes any drugs or alcohol, according to the conditions of his release signed by U.S. District Judge Maryellen Noreika.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/07/26/hunter-biden-could-be-jailed-if-he-consumes-drugs-alcohol-as-part-of-release-conditions/

@mystery-ak

That boy is a-going  ta jail!
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Offline sneakypete

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Hunter Biden plea: Collapsed deal leaves first son's lawyers furious
by Julia Johnson, Politics Reporter
July 27, 2023 08:12 AM

Lawyers for President Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden were fuming hours after a tumultuous Wednesday court hearing that left the first son in legal limbo.

Hunter Biden's attorneys were agitated by Judge Maryellen Noreika's thorough questioning of lawyers for the defense and prosecution on the terms of the plea deal agreed to, according to Axios. The interrogation revealed varying understandings of the deal from the two sides.


Hunter Biden reported Wednesday morning to a U.S. District Court in Wilmington, Delaware, and was expected to plead guilty to tax misdemeanor charges as part of an announced plea deal. He was also expected to enter a diversion agreement for a felony gun charge.

However, the deal appeared to fall apart during the hearing, with Hunter Biden pleading not guilty to the charges. A major sticking point for Noreika was a provision that would preclude the Department of Justice from enforcing the Foreign Agents Registration Act against Hunter Biden if he were found to be in violation. The DOJ said it would reserve the right to charge Hunter Biden under the act if necessary.

Following deliberation between the sides and questioning from Noreika, the judge delayed ruling on the final agreement until further briefings are obtained from each side. They are expected to convene again in the near future, within 4-6 weeks.

more
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hunter-biden-legal-team-outraged-plea-deal

 

@mystery-ak


Am I the only one that thinks this is just one more way for the lawyers to get billable hours,as well as more personal fame?
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Offline mystery-ak

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I love this Judge

Judge Torches Hunter: 'You Were Sober, So Why Didn't You Pay Your Taxes?'
Nicole Silverio


The judge overseeing Hunter Biden’s plea deal reportedly torched the first son during his court appearance Wednesday.

CNN correspondent Kara Scannell, who was present in the courtroom, said Judge Maryellen Noreika confronted Hunter as the plea deal fell into jeopardy during the hearing. Noreika refused the initial plea deal to his tax misdemeanor charges agreed upon by the Department of Justice and Biden’s legal team, leading to a revised plea deal.

“We did hear a little bit about part of these charges that he’s pleading to is when he had told the judge he was already sober and she said to him, ‘You were sober, so why didn’t you pay your taxes?’ and he essentially said he had just become sober, his life was an enormous mess, he was trying to pick up the pieces and put it together, and that essentially fell through the cracks,” Scannell said.

Hunter changed his plea to “not guilty” during the hearing after the defense and prosecution reached a disagreement about the terms of the agreement.

more
https://dailycaller.com/2023/07/26/hunter-biden-taxes-plea-deal-judge-torches/
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Offline sneakypete

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Though doubtful, I want to see him do jail time.  Wouldn't that be wonderful??

@libertybele

He is NOT going to do any  jail time if found guilty while Biden is still President because daddy would give him a Presidential Pardon.

The DNC doesn't want this to happen for obvious reasons,so they are trying to drag it out until after the elections.

BTW,as far as I KNOW,and that isn't very far,Daddy President can give him a  full pardon at any time,even before he goes to trial.

Am I wrong about this?
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Offline sneakypete

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Poor Poppa Joe.  This is gonna hurt him more than his crackhead son.   

 

@Wingnut

Not really. If  push comes to shove,Papa Joe can always give him a Presidential Pardon.

I ALMOST hope that happens,just so we can watch Dim heads explode as they consider how this would effect THEIR re-electoin chances.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 01:39:05 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline mystery-ak

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We now have the plea papers, no thanks to the government, and here is a very short version of what they say.

1. Under the Plea Agreement there is a probation recommendation from the government on the tax counts, even though Hunter’s misdemeanor Guidelines range calls for at least 24-30 months and even though he was going to be charged with felony tax evasion until Biden’s DOJ nixed it. The probation recommendation is  NOT binding on the Court, but any sentence she imposes on a misdemeanor tax count will be capped at one year per each count. So, the judge could have accepted the Plea Agreement and still sentenced Hunter to 2 years, despite the government's probation recommendation..
2. Then there was a Pre-trial Diversion Agreement (no jail time and no permanent record) on the felony gun charge.
3. Finally, and most importantly, a broad immunity provision (arguably covering every crime Hunter may have committed during the relevant time frame) was hidden in Paragraph 15 of the the Pre-Trial Diversion Agreement and this was done by the parties in order that the judge could not accept or reject the broad immunity portion of the overall deal. Totally unprecedented. That’s what appropriately set the judge off. She thought it should have been included in the Plea Agreement, rather than hidden in the Diversion Agreement. By the way, the transcript shows that the judge didn't even see the key paragraph until shortly before the hearing.
http://5.Now the parties can try to hammer out an honest deal.
6.If they do, I think the judge will accept it, even though it is a sweetheart deal for Hunter.
8:40 AM · Jul 27, 2023
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https://twitter.com/willscharf/status/1684331594864025602

Quote

Based on conversations with people who were in the courtroom today, and my experience as a former federal prosecutor, I think I know the full story of what happened with the Hunter Biden plea agreement blow-up this morning.

Bear with me, because this is a little complicated:

Typically, if the Government is offering to a defendant that it will either drop charges or decline to bring new charges in return for the defendant's guilty plea, the plea is structured under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11(c)(1)(A).  An agreement not to prosecute Hunter for FARA violations or other crimes in return for his pleading guilty to the tax misdemeanors, for example, would usually be a (c)(1)(A) plea.  This is open, transparent, subject to judicial approval, etc.

In Hunter's case, according to what folks in the courtroom have told me, Hunter's plea was structured under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11(c)(1)(B), which is usually just a plea in return for a joint sentencing recommendation only, and contained no information on its face about other potential charges, and contained no clear agreement by DOJ to forego prosecution of other charges.

Instead, DOJ and Hunter's lawyers effectively hid that part of the agreement in what was publicly described as a pretrial diversion agreement relating to a § 922(g)(3) gun charge against Hunter for being a drug user in possession of a firearm.

That pretrial diversion agreement as written was actually MUCH broader than just the gun charge. If Hunter were to complete probation, the pretrial diversion agreement prevented DOJ from ever bringing charges against Hunter for any crimes relating to the offense conduct discussed in the plea agreement, which was purposely written to include his foreign influence peddling operations in China and elsewhere.

So they put the facts in the plea agreement, but put their non-prosecution agreement in the pretrial diversion agreement, effectively hiding the full scope of what DOJ was offering and Hunter was obtaining through these proceedings.  Hunter's upside from this deal was vast immunity from further prosecution if he finished a couple years of probation, and the public wouldn't be any the wiser because none of this was clearly stated on the face of the plea agreement, as would normally be the case.

Judge Noreika smelled a rat. She understood that the lawyers were trying to paint her into a corner and hide the ball. Instead, she backed DOJ and Hunter's lawyers into a corner by pulling all the details out into the open and then indicating that she wasn't going to approve a deal as broad as what she had discovered. 

DOJ, attempting to save face and save its case, then stated on the record that the investigation into Hunter was ongoing and that Hunter remained susceptible to prosecution under FARA. Hunter's lawyers exploded. They clearly believed that FARA was covered under the deal, because as written, the pretrial diversion agreement language was broad enough to cover it. They blew up the deal, Hunter pled not guilty, and that's the current state of play.

And so here we are. Hunter's lawyers and DOJ are going to go off and try to pull together a new set of agreements, likely narrower, to satisfy Judge Noreika. Fortunately, I doubt if FARA or any charges related to Hunter's foreign influence peddling will be included, which leaves open the possibility of further investigations leading to further prosecutions.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 05:22:14 pm by Hoodat »
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Offline Kamaji

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Will Scharf is a candidate for Mo. Attorney General:

Will Scharf
@willscharf
Based on conversations with people who were in the courtroom today, and my experience as a former federal prosecutor, I think I know the full story of what happened with the Hunter Biden plea agreement blow-up this morning.

Bear with me, because this is a little complicated:

Typically, if the Government is offering to a defendant that it will either drop charges or decline to bring new charges in return for the defendant's guilty plea, the plea is structured under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11(c)(1)(A).  An agreement not to prosecute Hunter for FARA violations or other crimes in return for his pleading guilty to the tax misdemeanors, for example, would usually be a (c)(1)(A) plea.  This is open, transparent, subject to judicial approval, etc.

In Hunter's case, according to what folks in the courtroom have told me, Hunter's plea was structured under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11(c)(1)(B), which is usually just a plea in return for a joint sentencing recommendation only, and contained no information on its face about other potential charges, and contained no clear agreement by DOJ to forego prosecution of other charges.

Instead, DOJ and Hunter's lawyers effectively hid that part of the agreement in what was publicly described as a pretrial diversion agreement relating to a § 922(g)(3) gun charge against Hunter for being a drug user in possession of a firearm.

That pretrial diversion agreement as written was actually MUCH broader than just the gun charge. If Hunter were to complete probation, the pretrial diversion agreement prevented DOJ from ever bringing charges against Hunter for any crimes relating to the offense conduct discussed in the plea agreement, which was purposely written to include his foreign influence peddling operations in China and elsewhere.

So they put the facts in the plea agreement, but put their non-prosecution agreement in the pretrial diversion agreement, effectively hiding the full scope of what DOJ was offering and Hunter was obtaining through these proceedings.  Hunter's upside from this deal was vast immunity from further prosecution if he finished a couple years of probation, and the public wouldn't be any the wiser because none of this was clearly stated on the face of the plea agreement, as would normally be the case.

Judge Noreika smelled a rat. She understood that the lawyers were trying to paint her into a corner and hide the ball. Instead, she backed DOJ and Hunter's lawyers into a corner by pulling all the details out into the open and then indicating that she wasn't going to approve a deal as broad as what she had discovered. 

DOJ, attempting to save face and save its case, then stated on the record that the investigation into Hunter was ongoing and that Hunter remained susceptible to prosecution under FARA. Hunter's lawyers exploded. They clearly believed that FARA was covered under the deal, because as written, the pretrial diversion agreement language was broad enough to cover it. They blew up the deal, Hunter pled not guilty, and that's the current state of play.

And so here we are. Hunter's lawyers and DOJ are going to go off and try to pull together a new set of agreements, likely narrower, to satisfy Judge Noreika. Fortunately, I doubt if FARA or any charges related to Hunter's foreign influence peddling will be included, which leaves open the possibility of further investigations leading to further prosecutions.
6:35 PM · Jul 26, 2023


All of the lawyers involved in that fraud on the court should be sanctioned and disciplined, including suspension of their licenses.

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All of the lawyers involved in that fraud on the court should be sanctioned and disciplined, including suspension of their licenses.

:yowsa: To include those on the DOJ prosecution side!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline Kamaji

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:yowsa: To include those on the DOJ prosecution side!

Most definitely!

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‘On the Same Team’: DOJ Exposed for Colluding With Hunter Biden’s Legal Team

It's been 24-hours since Hunter Biden entered a Delaware courtroom expecting to walk away without jail time and a codification of his sweetheart plea deal offered by the Department of Justice -- wiping away felony tax fraud and a felony gun charge with minor misdemeanors and a diversion program.

“As he entered the courtroom, Mr. Biden drew a deep breath and plunged forward to greet the prosecutors who investigated him for five years with handshakes and a smile,” the New York Times reported about the scene.

But after asking just a few simple questions,  U.S. District Court Judge Maryellen Noreikam torpedoed the whole thing and exposed DOJ's collusion with the Hunter Biden legal team to evade more serious charges in the future. According to former federal prosecutor Will Scharf, this is what happened: ...

Excerpt: rest at link above
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Offline libertybele

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Sol Wisenberg
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We now have the plea papers, no thanks to the government, and here is a very short version of what they say.

1. Under the Plea Agreement there is a probation recommendation from the government on the tax counts, even though Hunter’s misdemeanor Guidelines range calls for at least 24-30 months and even though he was going to be charged with felony tax evasion until Biden’s DOJ nixed it. The probation recommendation is  NOT binding on the Court, but any sentence she imposes on a misdemeanor tax count will be capped at one year per each count. So, the judge could have accepted the Plea Agreement and still sentenced Hunter to 2 years, despite the government's probation recommendation..
2. Then there was a Pre-trial Diversion Agreement (no jail time and no permanent record) on the felony gun charge.
3. Finally, and most importantly, a broad immunity provision (arguably covering every crime Hunter may have committed during the relevant time frame) was hidden in Paragraph 15 of the the Pre-Trial Diversion Agreement and this was done by the parties in order that the judge could not accept or reject the broad immunity portion of the overall deal. Totally unprecedented. That’s what appropriately set the judge off. She thought it should have been included in the Plea Agreement, rather than hidden in the Diversion Agreement. By the way, the transcript shows that the judge didn't even see the key paragraph until shortly before the hearing.
http://5.Now the parties can try to hammer out an honest deal.
6.If they do, I think the judge will accept it, even though it is a sweetheart deal for Hunter.
8:40 AM · Jul 27, 2023
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Bottom line -- Hunter will get a sweetheart deal and all of this will be brushed under the table.
Romans 12:16-21

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Offline LadyLiberty

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"That pretrial diversion agreement as written was actually MUCH broader than just the gun charge. If Hunter were to complete probation, the pretrial diversion agreement prevented DOJ from ever bringing charges against Hunter for any crimes relating to the offense conduct discussed in the plea agreement, which was purposely written to include his foreign influence peddling operations in China and elsewhere."

I read somewhere that if this more wide-ranging immunity had slipped through, it would have essentially amounted to a pardon with Joe Biden not having to lift a finger and have the pardoning of his own son on his presidential record. 

Must be nice to have charges brought and the prosecution working with your defense to protect you from any consequences.

Offline Kamaji

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"That pretrial diversion agreement as written was actually MUCH broader than just the gun charge. If Hunter were to complete probation, the pretrial diversion agreement prevented DOJ from ever bringing charges against Hunter for any crimes relating to the offense conduct discussed in the plea agreement, which was purposely written to include his foreign influence peddling operations in China and elsewhere."

I read somewhere that if this more wide-ranging immunity had slipped through, it would have essentially amounted to a pardon with Joe Biden not having to lift a finger and have the pardoning of his own son on his presidential record. 

Must be nice to have charges brought and the prosecution working with your defense to protect you from any consequences.

That basically sums it up.  To be perfectly honest, to me it smacks of the DOJ and Biden's lawyers colluding to perpetrate a fraud on the court, and they should all be sanctioned and disciplined.

Offline mountaineer

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That basically sums it up.  To be perfectly honest, to me it smacks of the DOJ and Biden's lawyers colluding to perpetrate a fraud on the court, and they should all be sanctioned and disciplined.
Amen.
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That basically sums it up.  To be perfectly honest, to me it smacks of the DOJ and Biden's lawyers colluding to perpetrate a fraud on the court, and they should all be sanctioned and disciplined.

In a just world, they would be.  Would the DOJ sanction and discipline themselves?  It's the fox guarding the hen house.

Offline libertybele

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In a just world, they would be.  Would the DOJ sanction and discipline themselves?  It's the fox guarding the hen house.

Exactly.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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In a just world, they would be.  Would the DOJ sanction and discipline themselves?  It's the fox guarding the hen house.

Which is why no one on either side will ever be sanctioned and we will eventually get a plea agreement very close to what was rejected yesterday.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Offline Kamaji

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In a just world, they would be.  Would the DOJ sanction and discipline themselves?  It's the fox guarding the hen house.

The court has independent authority to sanction, and discipline would come from the bar - usually, the court with supervisory power over the attorneys - not the DOJ. 

Offline sneakypete

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The court has independent authority to sanction, and discipline would come from the bar - usually, the court with supervisory power over the attorneys - not the DOJ.

@Kamaji

Do they have the authority to file felony  charges and take cases to court?
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