Litman: Trump Is ‘Toast Legally,’ His Only Escape Is a GOP President

[Right_in_Virginia]

I have no idea what that even means....  He was charged - that's a legal reality even if it is politically motivated.  Not "accepting" that he has been charged is a a disconnect from reality.  As @LMAO has pointed out, the charges now have to be proven.

That doesn't mean I agree with the charging in the first place.

The motivation for and charges themselves are illegitimate  ----- how can you promote that it is now up to the same corrupt government that brought them to prove them as though this is the reasonable outcome?

Do you see no path to righting this legal ship?

[LMAO]

And yet the MSM continues to chase him down like Elmer Fudd going after Bugs Bunny. "We got you this time you waskelly wabbit."
Why do they do it? Simple. Talking about Trump getting harmed gets the eyeballs of their audience like nothing else.

Yup

The MSNBC audience, for example, need to get their daily dose of “Trump is finished” otherwise they’ll seek other outlets that will give them their fix

One of the “joys” of having some far leftists in the family is I get a front seat view of how the leftist minds work. I have an Inlaw that would get their information about the Mueller investigation from the Rachel Maddow show and was certain that Trump was finished. The Mueller investigation was just a formality as far as he was concerned. I asked him if he would accept Mueller’s findings if they didn’t conclude what he expected? Never did get an answer.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The motivation for and charges themselves are illegitimate  -----

Those are two different things.  I agree the motivation is political.  But whether the charges themselves are illegitimate/legally flawed won't be known until we know a lot more about the evidence.  I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Trump was dumb enough to commit a process crime.  As in -- I don't think he should have been prosecuted for having classified documents.  However, if he was dumb enough to suborn perjury, or to be complicit in making false statements to a court, then he absolutely should not have done that and may be in trouble.  But there isn't enough evidence public yet to know that one way or the other.

how can you promote that it is now up to the same corrupt government that brought them to prove them as though this is the reasonable outcome?

Well, of course it is up to the government to prove them.  Unless you believe it is Trump's job to prove his innocence...?  As I've said, I think the most reasonable outcome would have been to not have brought these charges at all, even if Trump was technically guilty of a crime, but that ship has sailed.  So the question now is whether or not the charges can be proven.  That's not a value judgment, but a simple statement of legal fact.

Do you see no path to righting this legal ship?

I'm not sure what you mean by "righting this legal ship".  There's not going to be some mass uprising that magically causes the charges to vanish.  This thing is going to be heard in court.
There are some things the judge might do, like dismiss charges because of prosecutorial misconduct, etc., that would more or less undo this if the dismissal survived appeal.  But again, we need to see more of the evidence to know whether or not there are grounds for that.

[LMAO]

This is another example of, depending on your political leanings, it’s either a “fascist use of the legal system,” or “ this proves our legal system works, because nobody, not even a former president, is above the law.” Evidence  be damned.

I will watch MSNBC clips and I will go and peek at left-wing blogs to prevent developing a bubble mindset. And how they’re reacting to these charges is starkly different. As with everything else, opinions are based on political leanings.

But none of that should ever matter. The only thing that should matter is the evidence. Trump has been indicted. Like it or not, that’s the reality. Now those who brought the indictment have to prove convincingly that their indictment was justified.

And I understand that our DOJ and other alphabet agencies has been thoroughly corrupted. So that factors into the equation as well

What both sides want in this issue is not a fair hearing and a fair trial. What they want is results that satisfy their political leanings

[Kamaji]

This is another example of, depending on your political leanings, it’s either a “fascist use of the legal system,” or “ this proves our legal system works, because nobody, not even a former president, is above the law.” Evidence  be damned.

I will watch MSNBC clips and I will go and peek at left-wing blogs to prevent developing a bubble mindset. And how they’re reacting to these charges is starkly different. As with everything else, opinions are based on political leanings.

But none of that should ever matter. The only thing that should matter is the evidence. Trump has been indicted. Like it or not, that’s the reality. Now those who brought the indictment have to prove convincingly that their indictment was justified.

And I understand that our DOJ and other alphabet agencies has been thoroughly corrupted. So that factors into the equation as well

What both sides want in this issue is not a fair hearing and a fair trial. What they want is results that satisfy their political leanings

[Maj. Bill Martin]

This is another example of, depending on your political leanings, it’s either a “fascist use of the legal system,” or “ this proves our legal system works, because nobody, not even a former president, is above the law.” Evidence  be damned.

I will watch MSNBC clips and I will go and peek at left-wing blogs to prevent developing a bubble mindset. And how they’re reacting to these charges is starkly different. As with everything else, opinions are based on political leanings.

But none of that should ever matter. The only thing that should matter is the evidence. Trump has been indicted. Like it or not, that’s the reality. Now those who brought the indictment have to prove convincingly that their indictment was justified.

And I understand that our DOJ and other alphabet agencies has been thoroughly corrupted. So that factors into the equation as well

What both sides want in this issue is not a fair hearing and a fair trial. What they want is results that satisfy their political leanings

Where it gets squirrelly for me is the "prosecuting a guy for going 57 in a 55 mph zone" aspect of this.  Just because something is a technical violation of the law does not mean it is proper to prosecute it.  That is particularly important when there are obvious partisan political motivations.

However, it is important to see the evidence to know if he was going 57 in a 55 zone, or 97.  Though I suspect it's going to be much closer to 57 than to 97.

[Kamaji]

Where it gets squirrelly for me is the "prosecuting a guy for going 57 in a 55 mph zone" aspect of this.  Just because something is a technical violation of the law does not mean it is proper to prosecute it.  That is particularly important when there are obvious partisan political motivations.

However, it is important to see the evidence to know if he was going 57 in a 55 zone, or 97.  Though I suspect it's going to be much closer to 57 than to 97.

Agreed.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Where it gets squirrelly for me is the "prosecuting a guy for going 57 in a 55 mph zone" aspect of this.  Just because something is a technical violation of the law does not mean it is proper to prosecute it. 

What law and what technical violation are you referring to?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

What law and what technical violation are you referring to?

I'm referring to the allegations stated in the indictment, and additional things that have leaked about the internal discussions on and before January 6.

As I've said, we need to see a lot more of the actual backup for this stuff before knowing if it has any technical legal merit.  From the stuff I've seen, things like him continuing to possess classified documents after being told to return them may be true, but not worthy of charges.  I suspect there is at least some legal merit to some of the charges given Trump's apparent need to make up weak as hell excuses like he didn't have time to go through the boxes, and there were personal items of clothing in there, etc..

But again, that's why we need to see more of the evidence itself rather than just leaks and allegations.  I think those assuming either complete guilt or complete innocence before any of these facts have been aired and open court are getting way ahead of themselves.