Author Topic: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2023, 04:16:46 am »
Then where is that wall he promised us?

Take a road trip. Sounds like you'll be pleasantly surprised  happy77

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2023, 04:25:41 am »
With Mexico paying for it, remember.

Mexico did help pay for it ..... They provided 28,000  Mexican soldiers to keep invaders from crossing the US and housed and fed those remaining in Mexico ----- free of charge to the US -----both part of their agreement with President Trump.

How weren't you aware of this?

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2023, 04:46:01 am »
What do I think, to promise the wall is politician talk... one can talk the talk, Trump gave up when it came to funding and folded without even trying.

Guess you missed all the court battles Trump ultimately won to move forward with building,  and the budget reallocation battles Trump also won when Congress denied funding.

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How that much money could be allocated and not any "SOLID" for the wall is beyond me.

Glad you asked.  Trump ultimately went with the wall design preferred by ICE agents.  ICE very much wanted to see what was going on on the other side of the wall in real time.   They wanted the surveillance advantage. This is why paved roads were incorporated on the US side of the design ---- to facilitate both routine surveillance and rapid deployment of agents and equipment, as required.

The design also turned out to be helpful in shutting down the EPA mobilizing to protect birds, spiders and butterflies having difficulty with a solid wall.   happy77



 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2023, 04:49:39 am »
Quote
MAGA War Room
@MAGAIncWarRoom

Stephen Miller on President Trump:

"He sealed the border in the face of domestic legal and political and international opposition on a scale that defies description.   

Whereas presidents of both parties before him laid down the welcome mat for global mass migration he banned travel from unsafe nations; ended refugee pipelines; suspended whole immigration programs; marshaled state power to stop visa overstays; restored consular affairs to a mission in defense of America not in support of foreign nationals; rewrote the foreign affairs manual to protect our interests; issued arguably the most important domestic regulation in history (public charge); and instituted the most comprehensive sovereign deportation strategy ever developed to end catch-and-release both at and between our ports, and across the whole US, to repatriate nationals to scores of countries across the globe — defeating a deep state and a leftwing judicial state that was hellbent on thwarting his each and every move."

10:27 AM · Jun 26, 2023

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2023, 02:47:03 pm »
I'd agree that Trump did a much better job than his predecessors on the border.  Some of that was simply luck - Covid allowed him to invoke Title 42, and it also massively reduced the incentives for illegal immigration.  Still, to his credit, he gave much-needed pushback on immigration overall against the left.

The problem is that the actions he took were short-term only and evaporated the moment he left office.  A very partially completed wall with tons of holes is useless.  And that short-term impact does us little good because it was inevitable that the Democrats were going to regain control of the presidency at some point.

What is really needed is someone who can push through legislation that has a longer-term effect. That might be physical in the case of a wall, or legal in the case of legislation.  Because of things like Abbott and DeSantis sending illegals to some major cities, and all the other issues that have cropped up, there is a stronger national sense in favor of controlling the border than there has been in a very long time.  In other words, we may have an opportunity to actually get some of those longer-term solutions implemented If we have the right person as president.

Trump cannot be that guy because he deliberately chooses to be polarizing.  That means there are Democrats who might otherwise support some of that legislation but won't / can't simply because it is being proposed by Trump.  He is completely toxic, and is guaranteed to be unable to push through that kind of legislation.

It doesn't even have to be DeSantis necessarily.  It just can't be Trump.  The us versus them populism may work well enough to get a plurality behind you in the Republican Party, but it sabotages any chance to put together even a temporary legislative majority.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 02:51:35 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2023, 03:28:19 pm »
I'd agree that Trump did a much better job than his predecessors on the border.  Some of that was simply luck - Covid allowed him to invoke Title 42, and it also massively reduced the incentives for illegal immigration.  Still, to his credit, he gave much-needed pushback on immigration overall against the left.


Yes, but a low bar at best. Compared to what is needed, a mere pittance.

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The problem is that the actions he took were short-term only and evaporated the moment he left office.  A very partially completed wall with tons of holes is useless.  And that short-term impact does us little good because it was inevitable that the Democrats were going to regain control of the presidency at some point.


And this part need way more emphasis... Maybe red blinking text or something. This is the entire crux of the problem... Cheers and victory laps for total bullcrap.

The border protection is almost useless until complete - REALLY complete, and also sufficiently manned, because even if it was there in its entirety (a far cry from the reality), all it takes is a pickup truck and a set of acetylene torches to blow through it in minutes if it is not guarded.

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What is really needed is someone who can push through legislation that has a longer-term effect. That might be physical in the case of a wall, or legal in the case of legislation.  Because of things like Abbott and DeSantis sending illegals to some major cities, and all the other issues that have cropped up, there is a stronger national sense in favor of controlling the border than there has been in a very long time.  In other words, we may have an opportunity to actually get some of those longer-term solutions implemented If we have the right person as president.


That seems right. Whether the left will concede and comply is still a ways off. And that is the real political trick: Either the border must be made so secure that it requires no guards, and so permanent that the Democrats can't tear the work down the next time they are in power, OR Democrats must be convinced that border control - REAL and lasting border control - is in their favor.

And turning the real political trick would be the latter.

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Trump cannot be that guy because he deliberately chooses to be polarizing.  That means there are Democrats who might otherwise support some of that legislation but won't / can't simply because it is being proposed by Trump.  He is completely toxic, and is guaranteed to be unable to push through that kind of legislation.

It doesn't even have to be DeSantis necessarily.  It just can't be Trump.  The us versus them populism may work well enough to get a plurality behind you in the Republican Party, but it sabotages any chance to put together even a temporary legislative majority.

That is very certainly true. Lacking (utterly dispossessed from) the ability to build coalitions and consensus, especially if not even within your own party is the sure doom of ANY real and lasting political success.

Online Kamaji

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2023, 03:32:02 pm »
I'd agree that Trump did a much better job than his predecessors on the border.  Some of that was simply luck - Covid allowed him to invoke Title 42, and it also massively reduced the incentives for illegal immigration.  Still, to his credit, he gave much-needed pushback on immigration overall against the left.

The problem is that the actions he took were short-term only and evaporated the moment he left office.  A very partially completed wall with tons of holes is useless.  And that short-term impact does us little good because it was inevitable that the Democrats were going to regain control of the presidency at some point.

What is really needed is someone who can push through legislation that has a longer-term effect. That might be physical in the case of a wall, or legal in the case of legislation.  Because of things like Abbott and DeSantis sending illegals to some major cities, and all the other issues that have cropped up, there is a stronger national sense in favor of controlling the border than there has been in a very long time.  In other words, we may have an opportunity to actually get some of those longer-term solutions implemented If we have the right person as president.

Trump cannot be that guy because he deliberately chooses to be polarizing.  That means there are Democrats who might otherwise support some of that legislation but won't / can't simply because it is being proposed by Trump.  He is completely toxic, and is guaranteed to be unable to push through that kind of legislation.

It doesn't even have to be DeSantis necessarily.  It just can't be Trump.  The us versus them populism may work well enough to get a plurality behind you in the Republican Party, but it sabotages any chance to put together even a temporary legislative majority.



:thumbsup:

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2023, 03:41:57 pm »
One of the things I'd suggest as any part of any sort of "comprehensive" immigration reform is that anyone who entered this country illegally -- DACA or not -- is permanently ineligible for citizenship, and so cannot vote.  If they want that right, then they'd have to leave and get in line like everyone else.  And I'm NOT saying that we should have some form of mass legalization, either.  Just that if anyone is permitted to stay, that has to be one of the criteria.

I think another issue is that ridiculous Supreme Court decision in Phyler v. Doe.  We need to end all government-based incentives for people to come here illegally.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2023, 04:24:03 pm »

  In other words, we may have an opportunity to actually get some of those longer-term solutions implemented If we have the right person as president.

What would your longer-term solution look like?

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Trump cannot be that guy because he deliberately chooses to be polarizing.

Trump isn't choosing to be "polarizing".  He's choosing to disrupt the immigration alliance between the government and business --- one wants voters and the other wants cheap labor.  This alliance has only grown stronger and more impenetrable over the past four decades, and is the great facilitator of the invasion we are living through and subsequent obliteration of our borders and society.

I think we should be encouraging Donald Trump.

Quote
It just can't be Trump.  The us versus them populism may work well enough to get a plurality behind you in the Republican Party, ...

Isn't us versus them essential during war ----- and isn't an invasion an act of one ----- especially if the act is sanctioned by a government against its own citizens?

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...but it sabotages any chance to put together even a temporary legislative majority.

I must ask again:  What, in your opinion, does a legislative majority accomplish to be successful?



Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2023, 04:35:35 pm »
***Stuff***

As I've pointed out here multiple times, you are not entitled to anyone answering any of the questions you pose because you routinely refuse to return the courtesy.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2023, 05:08:44 pm »
As I've pointed out here multiple times, you are not entitled to anyone answering any of the questions you pose because you routinely refuse to return the courtesy.

If it helps, just consider my questions to be food for thought for the rationals passing through.

Thanks for the reply @Maj. Bill Martin

Online Kamaji

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2023, 05:10:33 pm »
As I've pointed out here multiple times, you are not entitled to anyone answering any of the questions you pose because you routinely refuse to return the courtesy.

:thumbsup:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2023, 05:21:57 pm »
:thumbsup:

Just thought I'd repeat my questions ----- you know, to keep the thread on topic.  Thanks for jumping in!

What would your longer-term solution look like?

Trump isn't choosing to be "polarizing".  He's choosing to disrupt the immigration alliance between the government and business --- one wants voters and the other wants cheap labor.  This alliance has only grown stronger and more impenetrable over the past four decades, and is the great facilitator of the invasion we are living through and subsequent obliteration of our borders and society.

I think we should be encouraging Donald Trump.

Isn't us versus them essential during war ----- and isn't an invasion an act of one ----- especially if the act is sanctioned by a government against its own citizens?

I must ask again:  What, in your opinion, does a legislative majority accomplish to be successful?

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2023, 05:29:51 pm »
If it helps...
 @Maj. Bill Martin

It does not.

I tried the courteous route with you for awhile, and it failed to elicit the same courtesy in return.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2023, 05:51:47 pm »
"No excuses" is a pretty big brag. I highly doubt the Congress is going to automatically fall in line with him. The only success they have, no matter who is in the majority, is in maintaining their status quo.

Maybe the most effective way to change the conversation on illegal  immigration is for red states to deport illegal immigrants to dem states and dem cities. Not with a few thousand. But with hundreds of thousands. Bury them in their BS.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2023, 06:18:13 pm »
"No excuses" is a pretty big brag. I highly doubt the Congress is going to automatically fall in line with him. The only success they have, no matter who is in the majority, is in maintaining their status quo.

Maybe the most effective way to change the conversation on illegal  immigration is for red states to deport illegal immigrants to dem states and dem cities. Not with a few thousand. But with hundreds of thousands. Bury them in their BS.

Well, one of the things the President could do is to direct the movement of illegals to specific states.  At least a threat of doing on a large scale what DeSantis and Abbott are doing already.  They may be able to peel away enough Democratic senators to get past the filibuster.

Like I said, I don't think the ability to do that is exclusive to DeSantis, but he does have the bonus of credibility regarding the impact of large-scale immigration on southern states, as would Abbott.

Democrats won't cooperate with Trump under any circumstances because he has become so toxic to anyone but his supporters.  That's just reality at this point.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2023, 06:28:19 pm »
It does not.

I tried the courteous route with you for awhile, and it failed to elicit the same courtesy in return.

Thanks, but no explanation is needed @Maj. Bill Martin   You're going to ignore me.  Got it ---- and it's okay.  Be well.

Online Kamaji

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2023, 06:29:55 pm »
"No excuses" is a pretty big brag. I highly doubt the Congress is going to automatically fall in line with him. The only success they have, no matter who is in the majority, is in maintaining their status quo.

Maybe the most effective way to change the conversation on illegal  immigration is for red states to deport illegal immigrants to dem states and dem cities. Not with a few thousand. But with hundreds of thousands. Bury them in their BS.

States generally do not have the authority to "deport" individuals to other states.  They can certainly incentivize a voluntary move - as DeSantis did earlier this year - but they cannot command someone to move.

In terms of getting Congress to go along - that's where the skill at building coalitions comes in, something that Trump, to all appearances, is intrinsically incapable of doing.  It's not a sure-fire guarantee by any means, but DeSantis has a much, much better chance of succeeding than Trump does.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 06:31:19 pm by Kamaji »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2023, 07:18:32 pm »
"No excuses" is a pretty big brag.

Them that can brag, let em.

He certainly has his state legislature running in a very Conservative direction.
If he can come anywhere close to that on a national stage, then he's worth a roll of the bones.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: DeSantis: ‘We will build the wall. NO EXCUSES.’
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2023, 09:31:58 pm »
"No excuses" is a pretty big brag. I highly doubt the Congress is going to automatically fall in line with him. The only success they have, no matter who is in the majority, is in maintaining their status quo.

Maybe the most effective way to change the conversation on illegal  immigration is for red states to deport illegal immigrants to dem states and dem cities. Not with a few thousand. But with hundreds of thousands. Bury them in their BS.

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