LIVE THREAD: Wagner chief vows to 'go to the end' to oust Moscow leadership

[PeteS in CA]

There are no "good guys" among Putin, Prigozhin, Kadyrov, or the rest of Russia's half dozen or dozen warlords. The best the rest of the world can hope for is that no one does anything stupid with nuclear weapons, and Russian military power is attrited to 3rd or 4th class status.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Prigozhin described as traitors "people who fly on their business jets to the so-called neutral countries to avoid participating in today's problems".[38] He criticized the elite for enjoying "public, luxurious, carefree life" during the war. In contrast, to "survive as a nation", Prigozhin claimed that Russia should prepare for a "difficult war": introduce martial law, announce new waves of mobilization, as well as "get everyone we can producing ammunition" and "close borders like North Korea". However, according to Prigozhin, part of the elite does not care about their homeland and therefore would not sacrifice their comfortable lives for their country.[36]

Prigozhin attacked Russian oligarchs, who he accused of destroying the Soviet Union and taking control over Russia's wealth, while not caring about fighting for Russia's interests. According to Prigozhin, during the war "oligarchs try to steal everything, which belongs to the people".[39]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group_rebellion

Sounds like a populist IMO. I'm sure many in Russia agree with him.

[DB]

It's a roll of the die.

The Russian masses will have to choose what they want and hopefully make a better choice than their last go at it.

[libertybele]

There are no "good guys" among Putin, Prigozhin, Kadyrov, or the rest of Russia's half dozen or dozen warlords. The best the rest of the world can hope for is that no one does anything stupid with nuclear weapons, and Russian military power is attrited to 3rd or 4th class status.

Indeed.

[massadvj]

There are no "good guys" among Putin, Prigozhin, Kadyrov, or the rest of Russia's half dozen or dozen warlords. The best the rest of the world can hope for is that no one does anything stupid with nuclear weapons, and Russian military power is attrited to 3rd or 4th class status.

From what I know of Wagner, he would be a nightmare worse than Putin.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group_rebellion

Sounds like a populist IMO. I'm sure many in Russia agree with him.

" In contrast, to "survive as a nation", Prigozhin claimed that Russia should prepare for a "difficult war": introduce martial law, announce new waves of mobilization, as well as "get everyone we can producing ammunition" and "close borders like North Korea".

This guy is not anyone's friend.  If he trashes things badly enough to hurt Russia's war making capability, that's great.

If he ends up in charge, that's bad.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Jack Poso
@JackPosobiec

Russian media reporting a settlement has just been made, with the leader of Belarus holding talks between Putin and Prigozhin

1:18 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[Right_in_Virginia]

Jack Poso
@JackPosobiec

Prigozhin just released an audio statement on Telegram that Wagner will turn back to avoid Russian bloodshed and return to their camps

1:36 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[Right_in_Virginia]

Jack Poso
@JackPosobiec

Prigozhin:

"They were going to dismantle PMC Wagner. We began on 23 June with our March of Justice. In a day, we walked to nearly 200km away from Moscow. In this time, we did not spill a single drop of blood of our fighters. Now, the moment has come when blood may spill. That’s why, understanding the responsibility for spilling Russian blood on one of the sides, we are turning back our convoys and going back to field camps"

1:38 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[bigheadfred]

*dammit* WTH am I gonna do with all this popcorn?

[Right_in_Virginia]

John Matheny
@johnmatheny20

What's the over/under for when Prigozhin falls out of a window?

1:41 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1672665927240896512

[Right_in_Virginia]

Jack Poso
@JackPosobiec

Whole lot of neocons deleting pro-Prigozhin tweets right now

1:49 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[Right_in_Virginia]

Still Boneless
@still_boneless

The biggest loss in all of this mess is Lindsay Graham’s erection.

1:51 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[Right_in_Virginia]

DC_Draino
@DC_Draino

Democrats & NeoCons going from hating Wagner Group

To loving Wagner Group

Back to hating Wagner Group

All in 24 hours

Is it exhausting being this easily  manipulated?

2:04 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[mystery-ak]

 Russia-Wagner group live updates: Wagner Group leader announces militia is ‘turning around’ from Moscow to ‘avoid bloodshed’
By Post Staff Report   
June 24, 2023 2:14pm

25 minutes ago
Wagner Group leader announces militia is 'turning around' from Moscow to 'avoid bloodshed'
By Olivia Land

The Wagner Group militia is reversing course from Moscow in order to “avoid bloodshed” amid news of a possible deal with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, its leader Yevgeny Prigozhin said in an audio message Saturday evening.

“We [are] turning our columns around and going back in the other direction toward our field camps, in accordance with the plan,” CNN reported that Prigozhin said in the recording, which was shared on his Telegram channel.

https://twitter.com/BBCYaldaHakim/status/1672661332410212353

Prigozhin said the decision was made in order to avoid bloodshed, but did not mention Lukashenko’s claim that the militia had agreed to enter negotiations with the Kremlin.

"Prigozhin accepted Lukashenko's proposal to stop the movement of Wagner in Russian territory and on further steps to de-escalate tension," Rossiya 24 said, citing Lukashenko's press service.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/24/russia-wagner-group-live-updates-as-group-stages-possible-coup/

[Right_in_Virginia]

RNC Research
@RNCResearch

The world is in chaos, but Joe and Hunter are off to Camp David for a weekend getaway



2:03 PM · Jun 24, 2023

[Right_in_Virginia]

From what I know of Wagner, he would be a nightmare worse than Putin.

[corbe]

  It's interesting to note that the CIA can still coup d'état in other Countries, besides our own.

[DB]

Did Wagner expect more Russian troops to join them and that didn't pan out?

Is this going to fade out or is Wagner switching tactics to a gorilla war and no longer an out in the open confrontation among civilians?

Somebodies blood is going to be spilled no matter what happens at this point. They can't coexist. Prigozhin must have had a detailed plan with a goal. Having a war in Moscow doesn't seem like a good endgame in itself.

[The_Reader_David]

I think we should be scouring ancient history for appropriate analogies to guide out thinking on this:  this is the Legions marching on (the Third) Rome, so looking at instances of the Legions marching on Rome (or later Constantinople) is probably more helpful in thinking about this than things from 20th century history that seem to be all most folks (esp. in our foreign policy establishment) think of.

I think if the Emperor fled the capital when the Legion was approaching, that typically boded ill for the continuation of the reign.

[Cyber Liberty]

Jack Poso
@JackPosobiec

Prigozhin just released an audio statement on Telegram that Wagner will turn back to avoid Russian bloodshed and return to their camps

1:36 PM · Jun 24, 2023

And just like that it's over. Back to coverage of the sunken submarine now....

[Ghost Bear]

Did Wagner expect more Russian troops to join them and that didn't pan out?

Is this going to fade out or is Wagner switching tactics to a gorilla war and no longer an out in the open confrontation among civilians?

Somebodies blood is going to be spilled no matter what happens at this point. They can't coexist. Prigozhin must have had a detailed plan with a goal. Having a war in Moscow doesn't seem like a good endgame in itself.

It is possible that they expected Russian regulars and/or "the people" to join with them, and decided to back off when they didn't get the response they wanted. I think from the Wagner standpoint it fades away for now.

However, I think this will be very bad for Putin. They fact that Wagner rebelled at all makes Putin look weak, and there are other forces in Russia that will take note of that and may be tempted now to take action.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

Well, here's the kind of guy who roots for the other side:

"Hell, I’d rather have Putin than Biden."

@Maj. Bill Martin

Was that supposed to be some sort of cheap shot?

[Smokin Joe]

I'm a bit puzzled. From where Wagner Group orcs had been fighting in Bakhmut, Rostov-on-Don and Moscow are in opposite directions. Did the Wagner Group orcs split into two different bands?

Wagner group was withdrawn from Bakhmut and Russian Regulars moved in a few weeks ago.