RFK Jr proposes federal solution to end homelessness: 'More important than funding wars'

[libertybele]

This is the side of RFKjr that worries me.  Nonetheless, I might support a guy who is pro-border, anti-war, pro-freedom, but also pro safety net over a guy who, say, gave everyone in the entire country money for doing nothing.

I will look at him carefully if he is nominated by the Dems, in other words when monkeys fly out my butt.

Any DEM worries me.  RFK Jr. on the surface and listening to him talk, seems to be a bit different than your typical liberal mental midget.

We have two GOP contenders that I think are worth watching; DeSantis and Scott.

The election is a year away, we have time to watch, research and decide.  I'm just hoping our Republic lasts that long with China and Russia breathing down our necks and a CIC who doesn't know where he's at most of the time.

[GtHawk]

SF needs to build more housing, period. More houses = less homelessness.

Maybe, but I don't think it will end until money and drugs stop being thrown at the homeless as an incentive. I would much prefer that if taxpayers are going to be on the hook we get something in return, put the homeless to work and pay a wage part of which goes to room and board. In San Franshitco, especially, there is plenty of work removing graffiti and keeping the streets and side walks clean, anyone not willing to work should be escorted out of the city, every city and the mentally ill should be placed in re opened mental institutions( I'm tired of the ACLU bitching about their rights, what about ours?)

[Kamaji]

Maybe, but I don't think it will end until money and drugs stop being thrown at the homeless as an incentive. I would much prefer that if taxpayers are going to be on the hook we get something in return, put the homeless to work and pay a wage part of which goes to room and board. In San Franshitco, especially, there is plenty of work removing graffiti and keeping the streets and side walks clean, anyone not willing to work should be escorted out of the city, every city and the mentally ill should be placed in re opened mental institutions( I'm tired of the ACLU bitching about their rights, what about ours?)

[GtHawk]

We are building houses, we're not building enough. When market is saturated, the price should eventually come down. Supply and demand.

Are you taking into account all the illegals America is being flooded with that the democrats are putting at the head of the line for housing over Americans?

[libertybele]

Maybe, but I don't think it will end until money and drugs stop being thrown at the homeless as an incentive. I would much prefer that if taxpayers are going to be on the hook we get something in return, put the homeless to work and pay a wage part of which goes to room and board. In San Franshitco, especially, there is plenty of work removing graffiti and keeping the streets and side walks clean, anyone not willing to work should be escorted out of the city, every city and the mentally ill should be placed in re opened mental institutions( I'm tired of the ACLU bitching about their rights, what about ours?)

The answer certainly isn't throwing money and drugs at the homeless; but rather getting the homeless off of drugs.  They need help! Compassion and drug rehab and then job training. Otherwise it becomes a vicious cycle.

Who is determining if they are mentally ill?  The mentally ill need compassion and treatment.

Unfortunately this hasn't been happening.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

From my understanding lack of labor and materiel shortages from supply chain issues are a factor.

Even apart from that, unless the government is paying for them, the currently homeless still have to be sufficiently productive to pay for the cost of land, labor, and materials necessary to build that housing.  And a whole lot of them simply are not that productive.

[massadvj]

San Francisco has plenty of low-cost housing, if you count makeshift tents without any sanitation or running water. Los Angeles too. And Portland as well. I think the administrators in these cities prefer to call them "vote harvesting centers."

[GtHawk]

The answer certainly isn't throwing money and drugs at the homeless; but rather getting the homeless off of drugs.  They need help! Compassion and drug rehab and then job training. Otherwise it becomes a vicious cycle.

Who is determining if they are mentally ill?  The mentally ill need compassion and treatment.

Unfortunately this hasn't been happening.

You can't make an addict stop being an addict unless they want to, that goes for cigarettes, alcohol, pot and harder drugs. As to who determines mental illness that requires institutionalization? Competent health professionals not social anarchists. Not every mentally ill person rises to the level of being in an institution but those that refuse to take their meds may need some short term help. I don't think I implied any lack of compassion. This insane liberal social experiment(more kind than I should be) must end and everyday normal Americans should not be punished by it on the streets or in their wallets. There way too many people that are living on the streets not because of economic hardship or drug addiction, they live on the streets because it allows them to live outside the law with few consequences and that includes committing theft, assaults and other crimes like drunk in public, or high on drugs in public.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

That's all about buying votes to gain power,and once the left has absolute power,those people will be turned into soap bars.

They are merely "tools" to be used to start the "revolution" so the left has an excuse for cracking down on lawlessness and establishing Martial Law,which  will NOT be rescended.

Good point @sneakypete

[sneakypete]

We are building houses, we're not building enough. When market is saturated, the price should eventually come down. Supply and demand.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

On what planet is this supposed  to happen?

Are the building supply companies just going to give the materials away,and the skilled tradesmen of today  supposed to work for the same wages their fathers were getting in the 1950's?

[sneakypete]

From my understanding lack of labor and materiel shortages from supply chain issues are a factor.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

Your understanding is wrong. The lack of labor is directly related to lack of construction jobs due to the insane inflation rates. 

I bought a new Toyota Camry last year,and it was pretty much the base Camry,a 4 cylinder economy car with zero options.

The sticker price,AND the price they were selling for was right at 29 THOUSAND dollars. For a freaking economy car. I did get a veterans discount  of 500 bucks.

Also,it was the ONLY  Camry on the lot,and was being driven  by  the sales manager. Hell,it may have even been the cheapest car on the lot for all I know. I DO know  it  was the cheapest thing on the lot  that I could get in and out of without bumping my head  or breaking my left leg to make it flexible.

[sneakypete]

Lack of labor is a continuing problem (at least around here). In talking to a couple of contractors, they can't find people to work!  They are many help wanted signs around here.

All these people that have moved into the area, I wonder what they're doing for $$??

@libertybele

Unemployment. I have friends that  own commercial  garages,and they gave up  hiring mechanics or mechanic trainees because the few he had hired in the past only worked long  enough  to colllect unemployment,and then quit,and now most of applications he is getting are over the phone,so the slacker can claim he applied for a job there and was turned down.

Several years ago,he had 3 employees working  full  time. Now it is just  him.

[sneakypete]

The answer certainly isn't throwing money and drugs at the homeless; but rather getting the homeless off of drugs.  They need help! Compassion and drug rehab and then job training. Otherwise it becomes a vicious cycle.

Who is determining if they are mentally ill?  The mentally ill need compassion and treatment.

Unfortunately this hasn't been happening.

@libertybele

What they need is a swift kick in the ass  and  to have their benefits cut off until they get a job and start showing up for work sober/drug free.

[roamer_1]

@libertybele

What they need is a swift kick in the ass  and  to have their benefits cut off until they get a job and start showing up for work sober/drug free.

Pretty much @sneakypete . Drying up the bennies (funny how that works both for welfare and hundred dollar bills) is half the solution. The other half is taking the weight off of employers, and making it more attractive to hire.

That means easy discretion in hiring and firing.
That means access to resources and assistance instead of getting kicked in the face for being an employer. Or better yet, pass a flat tax and take the whole collection process OFF the employer altogether.

When I started my new business, I very specifically chose a field where I could function WITHOUT employees. And I used to run around 10 employees. And until my illness, I was making twice the money in my actual pocket than my previous business with many employees provided. ALL BY MYSELF. You would not believe the pressure before, and the relief after.

Running a company is pressure enough... Responsibility enough. It ain't WORTH the responsibility and liability of being a babysitter for employees. All the drama. All the risk. With the government's boot on your neck, I could go on and on. Labor is the biggest drag there is in business, and a HUGE expense. Never, ever again.

Now. How do you make me WANT to hire people again? And want to hire MORE people than I did before?

[The_Reader_David]

How about the Victorian solution:  workhouses?  I suspect we could manage to make them a bit more humane than those Dickens depicted.

It would require moving some of the police who now deal with streets full of the homeless to the workhouse to keep order there, and some vagrancy laws, allowing those found living on the streets to be placed in a workhouse, and those who have a place in a workhouse, but found living on the streets again to be either imprisoned for vagrancy or sent to an in-patient mental health facility.

[sneakypete]

Pretty much @sneakypete . Drying up the bennies (funny how that works both for welfare and hundred dollar bills) is half the solution. The other half is taking the weight off of employers, and making it more attractive to hire.

That means easy discretion in hiring and firing.
That means access to resources and assistance instead of getting kicked in the face for being an employer. Or better yet, pass a flat tax and take the whole collection process OFF the employer altogether.

@roamer_1

I couldn't possibly agree more.


When I started my new business, I very specifically chose a field where I could function WITHOUT employees. And I used to run around 10 employees. And until my illness, I was making twice the money in my actual pocket than my previous business with many employees provided. ALL BY MYSELF. You would not believe the pressure before, and the relief after.

Yeah,I can. You were just running ONE business with ONE paycheck going out each week,instead of wasting multiple hours each  week doing paperwork for employees.

I am NOT very knowledgeable about this on a professional level,but it SEEMS to me the  weekly payroll paperwork for people working for,or close to the minimum wage SHOULD BE MINIMUM. Verify their identity,their legal mailing address,and their gross pay at the end of the week,and that's IT. If there are some other questions that need to be asked and the answers verified,let the freaking IRS and or state IRS deal with that.

Running a company is pressure enough... Responsibility enough. It ain't WORTH the responsibility and liability of being a babysitter for employees. All the drama. All the risk. With the government's boot on your neck, I could go on and on.

Yeah,and it's not like a small businessman  has all the free time to deal with  that crap. The gooberment MANDATES it,so let the  gooberment deal with it.

Labor is the biggest drag there is in business, and a HUGE expense. Never, ever again.

Yeah,but it is essential to the majority of businesses. For example,there would be NO factories without a labor force,and where would we be without manufacturing?

 

[sneakypete]

How about the Victorian solution:  workhouses?  I suspect we could manage to make them a bit more humane than those Dickens depicted.

It would require moving some of the police who now deal with streets full of the homeless to the workhouse to keep order there, and some vagrancy laws, allowing those found living on the streets to be placed in a workhouse, and those who have a place in a workhouse, but found living on the streets again to be either imprisoned for vagrancy or sent to an in-patient mental health facility.

@The_Reader_David

Won't work because in today's world you can NOT force people to work against their will,and you can NOT refuse to provide "free" food,clothing,housing,and medical care for the perpetually unemployed.

[DCPatriot]

How about the Victorian solution:  workhouses?  I suspect we could manage to make them a bit more humane than those Dickens depicted.

It would require moving some of the police who now deal with streets full of the homeless to the workhouse to keep order there, and some vagrancy laws, allowing those found living on the streets to be placed in a workhouse, and those who have a place in a workhouse, but found living on the streets again to be either imprisoned for vagrancy or sent to an in-patient mental health facility.

A community neighborhood of "TINY HOUSES" with well manicured lawns.  And totally trash-free!

A board of residential "KARENS" to enforce litter and noise levels, etc.. 

Get evicted from there...next step is suicide.

OF course, it's impossible.  Nothing can help them until the drug dependency is exorcised!

[Gefn]

 

[Kamaji]

How about the Victorian solution:  workhouses?  I suspect we could manage to make them a bit more humane than those Dickens depicted.

It would require moving some of the police who now deal with streets full of the homeless to the workhouse to keep order there, and some vagrancy laws, allowing those found living on the streets to be placed in a workhouse, and those who have a place in a workhouse, but found living on the streets again to be either imprisoned for vagrancy or sent to an in-patient mental health facility.

Personally, I think it's an idea worth exploring.

[roamer_1]

Personally, I think it's an idea worth exploring.

Outside of disability and retirement, any government assistance should require work of some kind.
Maybe an attractive offer to employers to hire apprentices - Say a two year haul where the worker is learning a trade, and the government is supplementing the wage and handling the paper.

I know it seldom works like that... but presumably an employer would wind up with a trained worker, worthy of hire, and the government could take em off the books.

There would still be a lot of flotsam and jetsam - It's a messy business working with dregs... But with drug treatment and a reasonable job entry system....

And the same btw, for anybody looking for assistance going to college. They need to know, nothing is free.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Even apart from that, unless the government is paying for them, the currently homeless still have to be sufficiently productive to pay for the cost of land, labor, and materials necessary to build that housing.  And a whole lot of them simply are not that productive.

Well this is absolutely true too, but my point was that making housing affordable means building as much as possible, basically. No society on Earth does that today that well afaik.

[Kamaji]

Outside of disability and retirement, any government assistance should require work of some kind.
Maybe an attractive offer to employers to hire apprentices - Say a two year haul where the worker is learning a trade, and the government is supplementing the wage and handling the paper.

I know it seldom works like that... but presumably an employer would wind up with a trained worker, worthy of hire, and the government could take em off the books.

There would still be a lot of flotsam and jetsam - It's a messy business working with dregs... But with drug treatment and a reasonable job entry system....

And the same btw, for anybody looking for assistance going to college. They need to know, nothing is free.