There Are Some Serious Problems With These Polls Right Now

[sneakypete]

Disagree.  It will take one angry man with no looming reelection campaign who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there to pull down the whole house of cards.


@massadvj

@Right_in_Virginia

Trump,IF elected,will need the support of the Party People in order to accomplish anything,and since he and his type of thinking is threatening to the RINO's and other wishy-washy scoundrels in the RNC,he is going to  have a tough time getting it because ALL the RNC Party People will see any success by him as a threat to their own positions.

Still,a "verbal bomb thrower" that goes in wanting to make it big in the history books who can ONLY  serve one term is what we need because he will be the only candidate not looking to piss people off because he wants to get re-elected 4 years down the road.

I think you will all agree that Trump doesn't worry about pissing people off.

We NEED a "VERBAL bomb-thower" to get the "change process" started,and then we need to have him followed by someone who is just as committed to change,but who has a milder personality and can "make friends".

4 years of Trump,followed by 8 years of a slightly milder but still dedicated conservative president just MIGHT be able to get things turned around enough to make a difference.

I know that is too much to ask for,but it costs nothing to hope,and miracles do occasionally happen.

[massadvj]

Disagree.  It will take one angry man with no looming reelection campaign who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there to pull down the whole house of cards.


@massadvj

You mean the guy whose own FBI stole the election from him? That guy?  The guy who made Fauci dictator for more than a year?

It will take a lot more than anger to dismantle a system that relies on inertia and embedded civil servants to function. It will take focus, patience and competence; all of which are sorely lacking in the individual you have in mind.

[massadvj]

@Right_in_Virginia

Trump,IF elected,will need the support of the Party People in order to accomplish anything,and since he and his type of thinking is threatening to the RINO's and other wishy-washy scoundrels in the RNC,he is going to  have a tough time getting it because ALL the RNC Party People will see any success by him as a threat to their own positions.

Still,a "verbal bomb thrower" that goes in wanting to make it big in the history books who can ONLY  serve one term is what we need because he will be the only candidate not looking to piss people off because he wants to get re-elected 4 years down the road.

I think you will all agree that Trump doesn't worry about pissing people off.

We NEED a "VERBAL bomb-thower" to get the "change process" started,and then we need to have him followed by someone who is just as committed to change,but who has a milder personality and can "make friends".

4 years of Trump,followed by 8 years of a slightly milder but still dedicated conservative president just MIGHT be able to get things turned around enough to make a difference.

I know that is too much to ask for,but it costs nothing to hope,and miracles do occasionally happen.

Trump will likely have my support after he is nominated. I say "likely" in the unlikely event that he runs against RFKjr. If that happens I will have to take a long, hard look at the competing visions. I have always favored Jeffersonian classical liberalism over conservatism, and RFKjr may very well be more inclined in that direction than Trump.

Like all small l libertarians I have been a man without a country for a long, long time.

[Kamaji]

Disagree.  It will take one angry man with no looming reelection campaign who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there to pull down the whole house of cards.


@massadvj

 

The same orange clown who couldn’t get out of his own way the first time around?  Whose only lasting achievements were actually the achievements of other people who simply used the orange clown as a rubber stamp to accomplish those ends?

Good lord but some people love to delude themselves when worshipping their mortal god. 

[LMAO]

Trump will likely have my support after he is nominated. I say "likely" in the unlikely event that he runs against RFKjr. If that happens I will have to take a long, hard look at the competing visions. I have always favored Jeffersonian classical liberalism over conservatism, and RFKjr may very well be more inclined in that direction than Trump.

Like all small l libertarians I have been a man without a country for a long, long time.

Just out of curiosity, what positions of RFK Junior have that would consider at least taking a second look at him?

[LMAO]

 

The same orange clown who couldn’t get out of his own way the first time around?  Whose only lasting achievements were actually the achievements of other people who simply used the orange clown as a rubber stamp to accomplish those ends?

Good lord but some people love to delude themselves when worshipping their mortal god.

It would be similar to Barack Obama running again for third term and his supporters claiming he’ll unite the races

[massadvj]

Just out of curiosity, what positions of RFK Junior have that would consider at least taking a second look at him?

All of what I know so far was from his interview with Elon Musk.  He opposed all of the government intervention based on COVID. He talks about the country being controlled by large corporations who push for wars, forced and coerced medical interventions for minors, terrible diet, etc. These corporations are enabled by the government and the laws that are in place to protect them need to be eliminated. He says he supports unregulated capitalism and free markets, but that this has been circumvented by the federal establishment. He also says he supports the second amendment.  Basically, he sounds to me like a classical liberal. He would like to make sure there is a safety net for those most in need, but he opposes all the pork.

I will say for certain based on this interview he understands the constitution and cares about it a lot more than Trump does.

[Bigun]

All of what I know so far was from his interview with Elon Musk.  He opposed all of the government intervention based on COVID. He talks about the country being controlled by large corporations who push for wars, forced and coerced medical interventions for minors, terrible diet, etc. These corporations are enabled by the government and the laws that are in place to protect them need to be eliminated. He says he supports unregulated capitalism and free markets, but that this has been circumvented by the federal establishment. He also says he supports the second amendment.  Basically, he sounds to me like a classical liberal. He would like to make sure there is a safety net for those most in need, but he opposes all the pork.

I will say for certain based on this interview he understands the constitution and cares about it a lot more than Trump does.

That's very interesting @massadvj thanks!

[LMAO]

That's very interesting @massadvj thanks!

Yup

Ditto.



 I personally would never vote for RFKjr. But if he were to get the nomination, I believe he would beat anybody the Republicans put up

[Right_in_Virginia]

You mean the guy whose own FBI stole the election from him? That guy? 

I'll go with this guy over some snotnosed wannabe who denies the election was stolen @massadvj

The guy who made Fauci dictator for more than a year?

How?  By following the US Constitution giving 50 governors the power and authority to use CDC guidelines as each saw fit, including not at all, as seven governors chose?

It will take a lot more than anger to dismantle a system that relies on inertia and embedded civil servants to function. It will take focus, patience and competence; all of which are sorely lacking in the individual you have in mind.

It will take one angry man who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there, supported by a reenergized and equally angry victorious electorate. Your fraud from Florida is being paid to stop the dismantling of the administrative state and the coming reckoning, and his political career will end here because of it.

[Idiot]

I'll go with this guy over some snotnosed wannabe who denies the election was stolen @massadvj

How?  By following the US Constitution giving 50 governors the power and authority to use CDC guidelines as each saw fit, including not at all, as seven governors chose?

It will take one angry man who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there, supported by a reenergized and equally angry victorious electorate. Your fraud from Florida is being paid to stop the dismantling of the administrative state and the coming reckoning, and his political career will end here because of it.

A 77 year old bitter old man on the verge of paranoid.  This guy?

[massadvj]

Your GOP is done, it is finished ----- and it will hit the bottom of the trash heap the abject failure and useless waste it is.  Get used to it.

I am quite used to it. I have no illusions about that whatsoever. But it isn't "my GOP." Although I am a registered Republican, philosophically I am more of a small l libertarian who leans right. I would say I am a Jeffersonian constitutionalist who believes in having a very small government with just a few sensible laws that are vigorously enforced. RDS and I are out of sync on a number of issues, but I would take him over Trump.

I did not support GWB until the very end of his first general election. Ditto with Mitt Romney and John McCain. I would back Rand Paul over any other prominent Republican, and I supported Paul in 2016 when he ran in the primary against Trump. In fact, I even wrote Rand Paul's name in when the Pennsylvania primary came around and the race was already settled.

I will very likely support Trump if he wins the primary, and I expect he will. Just without my help. Will you support RDS if he wins the primary?

[Right_in_Virginia]

I will say for certain based on this interview he understands the constitution and cares about it a lot more than Trump does.

That's an impressive bit of hyperbole @massadvj   Please, enlighten the uninformed and post your proof that Trump has limited understanding and regard for the Constitution of the United States.  Include all your work, professor.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I am quite used to it. ....

Interesting, you addressed    the part of my post I deleted as irrelevant @massadvj   I'd really appreciate you responding to the relevant part: 

You mean the guy whose own FBI stole the election from him? That guy? 

I'll go with this guy over some snotnosed wannabe who denies the election was stolen @massadvj

The guy who made Fauci dictator for more than a year?

How?  By following the US Constitution giving 50 governors the power and authority to use CDC guidelines as each saw fit, including not at all, as seven governors chose?

It will take a lot more than anger to dismantle a system that relies on inertia and embedded civil servants to function. It will take focus, patience and competence; all of which are sorely lacking in the individual you have in mind.

It will take one angry man who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there, supported by a reenergized and equally angry victorious electorate. Your fraud from Florida is being paid to stop the dismantling of the administrative state and the coming reckoning, and his political career will end here because of it.

[Kamaji]

Trump is the albatross and the millstone around the neck of the GOP, and of the country.

[Bigun]

I am quite used to it. I have no illusions about that whatsoever. But it isn't "my GOP." Although I am a registered Republican, philosophically I am more of a small l libertarian who leans right. I would say I am a Jeffersonian constitutionalist who believes in having a very small government with just a few sensible laws that are vigorously enforced. RDS and I are out of sync on a number of issues, but I would take him over Trump.

I did not support GWB until the very end of his first general election. Ditto with Mitt Romney and John McCain. I would back Rand Paul over any other prominent Republican, and I supported Paul in 2016 when he ran in the primary against Trump. In fact, I even wrote Rand Paul's name in when the Pennsylvania primary came around and the race was already settled.

I will very likely support Trump if he wins the primary, and I expect he will. Just without my help. Will you support RDS if he wins the primary?

That describes me very well @massadvj except the take RDS over Trump part. Not there yet.

[roamer_1]

Trump will likely have my support after he is nominated. I say "likely" in the unlikely event that he runs against RFKjr. If that happens I will have to take a long, hard look at the competing visions. I have always favored Jeffersonian classical liberalism over conservatism, and RFKjr may very well be more inclined in that direction than Trump.

I have a fondness for classic liberals. Principled Conservatives and Classic Liberals have very much in common.
 
You have not researched him yet. And you will not like what you find beneath the hood.

Like all small l libertarians I have been a man without a country for a long, long time.

How ironic that the choice is between two liberals, both telegraphing big government solutions.
Or is it?

[roamer_1]

How?  By following the US Constitution giving 50 governors the power and authority to use CDC guidelines as each saw fit, including not at all, as seven governors chose?

No, by locking down the ports and interstates and choosing winners by designating large retail outlets as the only or at least preferred outlets... They controlled the thing through goods and energy ABOVE the states. And you know it.

It will take one angry man who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there, supported by a reenergized and equally angry victorious electorate. Your fraud from Florida is being paid to stop the dismantling of the administrative state and the coming reckoning, and his political career will end here because of it.

Messianic bullcrap. He'll wind up wedged in the exact same corner - Governing by EO, and rubber-stamping checks.

[massadvj]

Interesting, you addressed    the part of my post I deleted as irrelevant @massadvj   I'd really appreciate you responding to the relevant part: 

How?  By following the US Constitution giving 50 governors the power and authority to use CDC guidelines as each saw fit, including not at all, as seven governors chose?

It will take one angry man who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there, supported by a reenergized and equally angry victorious electorate. Your fraud from Florida is being paid to stop the dismantling of the administrative state and the coming reckoning, and his political career will end here because of it.

On Trump and COVID, early in the crisis there was defacto martial law. The constitution was thrown out the window. Every church in the country was shuttered. So much for the First Amendment. Every small retail establishment in the country was forced to shut its doors.  Then to add insult to injury, Trump pays everyone in the country $2500 for doing nothing, and gives every shyster in the country carte blanche to "borrow" from the government and never have to pay it back. Now we know the fraud from that program alone is somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 billion.

And you say this is a man who will dismantle the federal government?  He will do no such thing. He will try to get even with his enemies, yes, and many of his enemies are despicable people. But I do not see a man who is ideologically inclined toward a less powerful government. Here is where spending went under his presidency:




Where is the evidence that Trump will "dismantle" anything? He is already on record as saying that Medicare and Social Security are off the table. From what I have seen of Trump, he is a populist nationalist without any particular ideology.

Will you support RDS if he wins the primary?

[massadvj]

I have a fondness for classic liberals. Principled Conservatives and Classic Liberals have very much in common.
 
You have not researched him yet. And you will not like what you find beneath the hood.

How ironic that the choice is between two liberals, both telegraphing big government solutions.
Or is it?

I get along much better with conservatives than liberals.

The people on this board who know me over many. many years going back to the FR days, know that I was once an operative for Willie Brown back in the late 1970s and early 1980s. That experience -- which I regard as the years I was with "the Mafia" -- turned me into a limited government guy.

The American people have become like little birds in a nest begging mommy government for more and more worms and protection. No politician can get elected without catering to that.  Freedom doesn't really sell anymore, except to a small minority.

 

[Cyber Liberty]

 

[Idiot]

On Trump and COVID, early in the crisis there was defacto martial law. The constitution was thrown out the window. Every church in the country was shuttered. So much for the First Amendment. Every small retail establishment in the country was forced to shut its doors.  Then to add insult to injury, Trump pays everyone in the country $2500 for doing nothing, and gives every shyster in the country carte blanche to "borrow" from the government and never have to pay it back. Now we know the fraud from that program alone is somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 billion.

And you say this is a man who will dismantle the federal government?  He will do no such thing. He will try to get even with his enemies, yes, and many of his enemies are despicable people. But I do not see a man who is ideologically inclined toward a less powerful government. Here is where spending went under his presidency:




Where is the evidence that Trump will "dismantle" anything? He is already on record as saying that Medicare and Social Security are off the table. From what I have seen of Trump, he is a populist nationalist without any particular ideology.

Will you support RDS if he wins the primary?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It will take one angry man who knows where the evidence is buried and who put it there

Ugh.

"Evidence" of what??  It isn't "evidence" that's required.  There aren't any bodies buried anywhere that actually matter.

What's required is someone who actually understands our constitutional system, the relationship between the Constitution, our laws, the regulatory system, and the entire bureaucracy that has arisen around it.  It is only by understanding all that that any leader can even begin to dismantle the parts that are corrupted and flawed.  Otherwise, you're just a raging, demented Captain Queeg of politics accusing everyone around you of conspiracy and disloyalty.  The kind of guy who believes that things can be fixed simply by venting your (allegedly) righteous anger and spouting populist talking points.

Even if you ignored all his other personal and policy flaws, Trump isn't the guy to fix anything.  I won't go so far as to say he is actually stupid as much as he has deliberately chosen to be ignorant.  He doesn't understand those Constitutional, legal, and regulatory systems, and doesn't care to understanding them because that would take too much nose to the grindstone work, and that's not him.  He will always be easily manipulated and tricked because he lacks the basic intellectual curiosity to read and learn about those things he doesn't understand.

So even if Trump and his supporters think his mission is to find "where the bodies are buried", he is too ignorant of our system to be able to do anything about any "bodies" that he finds.  He'll yell, rage, insult...and end up losing as those who actually understand how it all works run rings around him.  And the conservative people who do understand how the system actually works and might otherwise be willing to assist him have been alienated and insulted enough times that they aren't going to risk their own future for a guy who won't take their advice anyway.

He is the epitome of someone who is all style, and not a shred of substance.

[roamer_1]

I get along much better with conservatives than liberals.

The people on this board who know me over many. many years going back to the FR days, know that I was once an operative for Willie Brown back in the late 1970s and early 1980s. That experience -- which I regard as the years I was with "the Mafia" -- turned me into a limited government guy.

The American people have become like little birds in a nest begging mommy government for more and more worms and protection. No politician can get elected without catering to that.  Freedom doesn't really sell anymore, except to a small minority.

You're preaching to the choir. As a Reaganite, I do embrace all of the Conservative principles - I think they all intertwine and are interdependent, which is why Reaganism is right - Do harm to one, do harm to all.

But in the context of that, in arguing with populists over Tumpy, I have found my thinking coming to a rigid irreducible complexity. Within the Conservative principles, what is irreducible is Goldwater - libertarianism and fiscal conservatism. That is the root. If one is not standing upon small and distributed government, then you're part of the problem. Especially so on the Right.

As an aside, I have seen some remarkable conversions out of progressive liberalism in and around the 'Intellectual Dark Web' debates. Rubin, and I suppose Rogan, as examples... I was along for Rubin's ride, as he inexorably became convinced. It was awesome to watch him change his mind intellectually... Jordan Peterson - Another conversion - deserves a lot of the credit.

The interesting part is how many of them settle into Classic Liberalism... Finding out their alignment is really with that root. It is almost common. It makes me wonder if the liberalism claimed by progressives is really a complete and utter bastardization of the real thing - Like 'Big L' libertarians often find they were in when discovering Goldwater...

It's a thing... Jussayin.

[roamer_1]

Ugh.

"Evidence" of what??  It isn't "evidence" that's required.  There aren't any bodies buried anywhere that actually matter.

What's required is someone who actually understands our constitutional system, the relationship between the Constitution, our laws, the regulatory system, and the entire bureaucracy that has arisen around it.  It is only by understanding all that that any leader can even begin to dismantle the parts that are corrupted and flawed.  Otherwise, you're just a raging, demented Captain Queeg of politics accusing everyone around you of conspiracy and disloyalty.  The kind of guy who believes that things can be fixed simply by venting your (allegedly) righteous anger and spouting populist talking points.

Even if you ignored all his other personal and policy flaws, Trump isn't the guy to fix anything.  I won't go so far as to say he is actually stupid as much as he has deliberately chosen to be ignorant.  He doesn't understand those Constitutional, legal, and regulatory systems, and doesn't care to understanding them because that would take too much nose to the grindstone work, and that's not him.  He will always be easily manipulated and tricked because he lacks the basic intellectual curiosity to read and learn about those things he doesn't understand.

So even if Trump and his supporters think his mission is to find "where the bodies are buried", he is too ignorant of our system to be able to do anything about any "bodies" that he finds.  He'll yell, rage, insult...and end up losing as those who actually understand how it all works run rings around him.  And the conservative people who do understand how the system actually works and might otherwise be willing to assist him have been alienated and insulted enough times that they aren't going to risk their own future for a guy who won't take their advice anyway.

He is the epitome of someone who is all style, and not a shred of substance.

Yep. All hat and no cattle. I see that too.

Good post.