Author Topic: Trump Shreds DeSantis: He ‘Can’t Win the General Election’ Because of Record on Entitlement Programs  (Read 7609 times)

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Offline libertybele

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   I certainly wasn't surprised that obummer weaponized the DOJ and every other branch of GOVT.  What surprised me is Trump doing nothing but making it worse, with half of his term spent with a Republican Majority.  $hit the man went through Chief's of Staff (4) like crap through a goose and don't even get me started on his AG appointments. 
   If there was a time in the last 10 years to fix this, it would have been then!


Amen!  Should I even mention the name Sessions?
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline corbe

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   I liked Sessions and I even respected him for recusing himself from the Russian BS, he lost favor with me over his abuse of the Civil Forfeiture Laws.  6 months later, he was gone anyway and severely mocked and a Bush Family guy was appointed to replace him.   Similar to Chris Christy assuring him Christopher Wray would be a great FBI Director.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline DB

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   I liked Sessions and I even respected him for recusing himself from the Russian BS, he lost favor with me over his abuse of the Civil Forfeiture Laws.  6 months later, he was gone anyway and severely mocked and a Bush Family guy was appointed to replace him.   Similar to Chris Christy assuring him Christopher Wray would be a great FBI Director.

When Sessions endorsed Trump early on, that was the turning point for Trump. That is where the tide shifted away from Cruz and towards Trump. Sessions bears a lot of responsibility for what followed.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete
So socialism then?
Bullcrap.

The way you fix ALL of it is taking power away from the federal government. Put the damn thing back in its Constitutional box, that is meant to bind it. That's where liberty lies. Always.

@roamer_1

That will never happen because it would require anarchy.

BTW,doesn't the US Constitution recognize and mention the necessity of having a government?
 
Do NOT throw out the baby with the bathwater. We DO need to correct the politically motivated attacks on our form of government by the very people who have been elected to subvert it,but there just ain't going to be any easy answers because there are thousands,if not tens of thousands of government employees who were either elected or just hired as employees to create the very mess we are in today.

Now,if any sincere move  had been made back in the 30's to suppress communist influence in our political system,the story would be different. It isn't,so here we are today,having to try to do it the hard way.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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That will never happen because it would require anarchy.


Well that's nonsense too @sneakypete , but if we don't do something right soon, there will be anarchy anyway. Removing power from the fed is the only way to FIX it. And it will suck. Bad. But not anywhere near as bad as if we don't fix it.

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BTW,doesn't the US Constitution recognize and mention the necessity of having a government?


Advocating putting the fed back in its Constitutional box is not the same as anarchy or removing government at all. I recognize a Constitutionally sound federal government.  That ain't what we have right now.

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Do NOT throw out the baby with the bathwater. We DO need to correct the politically motivated attacks on our form of government by the very people who have been elected to subvert it,but there just ain't going to be any easy answers because there are thousands,if not tens of thousands of government employees who were either elected or just hired as employees to create the very mess we are in today.

I am not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The answer is always the same: This government is too big for a free people. The government big enough to give you what you need is big enough to take everything you have - And they always will.  ALWAYS. History attests,o ver and over, and over again.

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Now,if any sincere move  had been made back in the 30's to suppress communist influence in our political system,the story would be different. It isn't,so here we are today,having to try to do it the hard way.

It ain't the hard way yet, but it is surely coming unless we turn it around. And that means every aspect of government must shrink substantially. And that is plain as the nose on your face.

A government that costs even half of what a country makes is way, way too big to be sustained, and ours costs way more than that. It MUST be decimated before it destroys us all.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@sneakypete

Nope, As I have said in prior conversations with you, The VA, military pensions, and the full variety of federal employee pensions belong to the Fed.

No, that's a damn lie foisted upon me and you. And illegal, unconstitutional. It is outright thievery in a pyramid scheme that no other entity can use, BECAUSE it is thievery.

My social security and my disability, not being tied to government service, should have no business with the federal government. And neither should yours - That should be administered by the state, or by private investment.

When a full HALF of this government, that spends MORE than we make, is entitlements, you need look no further to see the corruption it has wrought - I read somewhere, many years ago, that on average, there are four people administrating for every client. Four people being paid way better than you ever were, with full bennies and health care, just to produce your entitlement check.

That is simply absurd. And the reason that can happen is because it is 'governed' off the books, beyond the reach of Congress, with automatic union driven pay. And no one ever does a damn thing BECAUSE it exists 2000 miles away. No Montana governor could survive such a ludicrous bill.

Believe me, return it to the states and it will quickly come in line, and with it, the cost of all medical services, the cost of medical machinery, the cost of the whole medical sector will collapse. Because it is the welfare system that is propping it up.

That's savings in megabucks, and with little difference to the people who actually deserve the help/ retirement...
Well, Social Security and Medicare are part of the picture. COVID didn't kill us geezers off, so that was not the solution and if anyone was suspicious of the jabs, it was boomers.

But Social Security and Medicare are only part of the so-called entitlement picture. Folks paid into those and should get something back.

There is another big chunk of the budget that goes to welfare, all sorts of food programs, and to medicaid, subsidized housing, etc. An awful lot of those recipients haven't paid in.

And then there are the unaccountable fortunes being spent on Millions of illegal aliens just during this administration.

I think there's a lot of fat to trim before people come after granny's Social Security check.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Kamaji

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Well, Social Security and Medicare are part of the picture. COVID didn't kill us geezers off, so that was not the solution and if anyone was suspicious of the jabs, it was boomers.

But Social Security and Medicare are only part of the so-called entitlement picture. Folks paid into those and should get something back.

There is another big chunk of the budget that goes to welfare, all sorts of food programs, and to medicaid, subsidized housing, etc. An awful lot of those recipients haven't paid in.

And then there are the unaccountable fortunes being spent on Millions of illegal aliens just during this administration.

I think there's a lot of fat to trim before people come after granny's Social Security check.

Nobody paid anything "into" the social security welfare entitlements.  People paid a disguised redistributive income tax, which they were lulled into accepting by being fed the lie that it was some sort of "insurance" against old age and disability.

Where's the insurance contract?  The enforceable agreement between you and the insurance provider that includes enforceable provisions you can sue upon to get paid a certain amount once you reach a certain age?  Or become disabled?

No enforceable insurance or annuity contract means you didn't "pay into" diddly-squat.  It means you were paying a regressive income tax on wages, which you willingly accepted because you swallowed the lies the democrats fed you that it was some sort of insurance program, which it most definitely is not.

That being said, I will fight right along with the rest to make sure that current retirees do not have the carpet yanked out from underneath them if they built their retirements upon the belief they would continue receiving social security welfare benefits, provided that they actually have a colorable need for the money - that means that the wealthy, like Bill Gates, do not get social security, period, no matter how much they paid into it, for the simple reason that they do not need the benefits to maintain their welfare.

VA benefits, quite honestly, should be put onto an enforceable contractual basis, because those are received in exchange for putting your a$$ and your life on the line for the country, and are earned in blood and sweat.

But please. can we drop the stupid nonsense about social security being some sort of enforceable annuity or insurance plan that we paid for?  That just continues the democrats' lies about social entitlement programs.

Offline libertybele

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Nobody paid anything "into" the social security welfare entitlements.  People paid a disguised redistributive income tax, which they were lulled into accepting by being fed the lie that it was some sort of "insurance" against old age and disability.

Where's the insurance contract?  The enforceable agreement between you and the insurance provider that includes enforceable provisions you can sue upon to get paid a certain amount once you reach a certain age?  Or become disabled?

No enforceable insurance or annuity contract means you didn't "pay into" diddly-squat.  It means you were paying a regressive income tax on wages, which you willingly accepted because you swallowed the lies the democrats fed you that it was some sort of insurance program, which it most definitely is not.

That being said, I will fight right along with the rest to make sure that current retirees do not have the carpet yanked out from underneath them if they built their retirements upon the belief they would continue receiving social security welfare benefits, provided that they actually have a colorable need for the money - that means that the wealthy, like Bill Gates, do not get social security, period, no matter how much they paid into it, for the simple reason that they do not need the benefits to maintain their welfare.

VA benefits, quite honestly, should be put onto an enforceable contractual basis, because those are received in exchange for putting your a$$ and your life on the line for the country, and are earned in blood and sweat.

But please. can we drop the stupid nonsense about social security being some sort of enforceable annuity or insurance plan that we paid for?  That just continues the democrats' lies about social entitlement programs.

Bull. Every paycheck money was taken out. I didn't make a voluntary contribution.  It was mandated by Uncle Sam.  It is my money not theirs!   So please can we drop the narrative that we didn't pay into the system?

I never said it was an annuity or insurance plan.  The Feds took money under the premise that it went to SS and Medicare for retirement.

It IS my money.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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Well, Social Security and Medicare are part of the picture. COVID didn't kill us geezers off, so that was not the solution and if anyone was suspicious of the jabs, it was boomers.

But Social Security and Medicare are only part of the so-called entitlement picture. Folks paid into those and should get something back.

There is another big chunk of the budget that goes to welfare, all sorts of food programs, and to medicaid, subsidized housing, etc. An awful lot of those recipients haven't paid in.

And then there are the unaccountable fortunes being spent on Millions of illegal aliens just during this administration.

I think there's a lot of fat to trim before people come after granny's Social Security check.

@Smokin Joe

@ Online Kamaji

I am not a religious man,but that one deserves a BIG "Amen!"

You only go backwards when you try to fix the wrong "problem".
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Kamaji

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Bull. Every paycheck money was taken out. I didn't make a voluntary contribution.  It was mandated by Uncle Sam.  It is my money not theirs!   So please can we drop the narrative that we didn't pay into the system?

I never said it was an annuity or insurance plan.  The Feds took money under the premise that it went to SS and Medicare for retirement.

It IS my money.

No, it was a tax.  When you pay the regular income tax, is that still "your money" and are you entitled to decide how it gets spent?

No, it's not, and you don't.

The same with social security.  It is just another income tax - a regressive income tax at that - that is generally imposed on wages (i.e., "earned income") - and the social security welfare entitlement is just that, a social welfare benefit.

Why do people continue to swallow the lies told them by progressives?  Progressives want you to believe this lie because it means they can continue to redistribute wealth from those who worked for it to those who do not - notice how many people are now receiving disability benefits that one cannot even colorably argue they "earned" - so long as some smattering of funds continues to go to the elderly.

Why continue to swallow the blue-pill lie FDR - and generations of liberals since then - told in order to seduce the American people into allowing this to pass?

Offline sneakypete

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Bull. Every paycheck money was taken out. I didn't make a voluntary contribution.  It was mandated by Uncle Sam. It is my money not theirs!  So please can we drop the narrative that we didn't pay into the system?

I never said it was an annuity or insurance plan.  The Feds took money under the premise that it went to SS and Medicare for retirement.

It IS my money.

@libertybele

It is not YOUR money until you get it,but your point is valid. We are all REQUIRED BY LAW to pay into these programs all our working lives,and BY LAW the feral gooberment is required to start paying us back the money we INVESTED BY DEMAND in monthly  payments once we become disabled or reach age 65.

NOWHERE AND AT NO TIME did we,the people,EVER agree to have our investments into our futures given to illegal aliens in order to buy votes for the left.

Or even for the right.

These are funds OWED to the individuals that spent their working lives paying into the system,or to any minor children they had if the parents die while the children are minors.

It is NOT the governments money to spend. It is a TRUST FUND FOR THE PEOPLE WHO PAID INTO IT.

Period,end of discussion.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline LMAO

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@libertybele

It is not YOUR money until you get it,but your point is valid. We are all REQUIRED BY LAW to pay into these programs all our working lives,and BY LAW the feral gooberment is required to start paying us back the money we INVESTED BY DEMAND in monthly  payments once we become disabled or reach age 65.

NOWHERE AND AT NO TIME did we,the people,EVER agree to have our investments into our futures given to illegal aliens in order to buy votes for the left.

Or even for the right.

These are funds OWED to the individuals that spent their working lives paying into the system,or to any minor children they had if the parents die while the children are minors.

It is NOT the governments money to spend. It is a TRUST FUND FOR THE PEOPLE WHO PAID INTO IT.

Period,end of discussion.

You have no idea what these programs are. And it’s not your fault because most people don’t. They are not investments. They are not a trust fund. It is a Tax. Period. End of discussion.

And the government is required by no such law to pay you back that money

Most people have no idea what Social Security is. And even when you explain it to it, they still refuse to learn


And even though MAGAS like to blame illegal immigrants for every single problem in this country, even if we had no illegal immigration, these programs would still be facing insolvency. Very few illegal immigrants are receiving Social Security benefits because legally, they can’t
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 01:25:57 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline sneakypete

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Really glad that Trump is choosing to make this an issue because it draws a very hard line between the two of them not just on this policy, but upon their entire approach to governing.  Do you do things because they seem to be popular/unpopular in the short term, or do you do what you think is actually the right thing to do?

Trump is against any kind of entitlement reform because he thinks it won't be popular. 

@Maj. Bill Martin


The FIEND! WHY would he think that stealing money owed to people who paid it in and then spending it on people who never paid a dime into the system and who aren't even Americans was a bad thing to do?

Which, not coincidentally, was exactly why he handed the reins to Fauci during Covid.  Because standing up to him would have been too unpopular with the press, and he supposedly would have gotten hammered.

What the BLEEP does Covid have to do with  the government stealing SS money to spend on non-citizens that never paid and will NOT EVER pay a dime into the system?

You just hate "Rude Orange Man". There is NOTHING he can do that would please you,and if  he did,you would suddenly be against it.
 

Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline LMAO

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No, it was a tax.  When you pay the regular income tax, is that still "your money" and are you entitled to decide how it gets spent?

No, it's not, and you don't.

The same with social security.  It is just another income tax - a regressive income tax at that - that is generally imposed on wages (i.e., "earned income") - and the social security welfare entitlement is just that, a social welfare benefit.

Why do people continue to swallow the lies told them by progressives?  Progressives want you to believe this lie because it means they can continue to redistribute wealth from those who worked for it to those who do not - notice how many people are now receiving disability benefits that one cannot even colorably argue they "earned" - so long as some smattering of funds continues to go to the elderly.

Why continue to swallow the blue-pill lie FDR - and generations of liberals since then - told in order to seduce the American people into allowing this to pass?

It’s like reparations. If people believe their own money by the government, they will entrenched themselves into that belief.

And there is a significant number of people who are getting more in Social Security benefits then they paid into

But it shows how difficult any reforms will be when even a good number of conservatives believe the lie

I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline Kamaji

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You have no idea what these programs are. And it’s not your fault because most people don’t. They are not investments. They are not a trust fund. It is a Tax. Period. End of discussion.

And the government is required by no such law to pay you back that money

Most people have no idea what Social Security is. And even when you explain it to it, they still refuse to learn


And even though MAGAS like to blame illegal immigrants for every single problem in this country, even if we had no illegal immigration, these programs would still be facing insolvency


:thumbsup:


It’s like reparations. If people believe their own money by the government, they will entrenched themselves into that belief.

And there is a significant number of people who are getting more in Social Security benefits then they paid into

But it shows how difficult any reforms will be when even a good number of conservatives believe the lie




:thumbsup:

Offline LMAO

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I want some of these people to show me the contract where it says the governments going to take money out of your check for your retirement and they can’t spend it on anything else.

Instead of stamping up and down and claiming “it’s my money,” show us the contract.

And I’ll show you Fleming versus Nestor that says otherwise
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 01:31:17 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline Kamaji

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I want some of these people to show me the contract where it says the governments going to take money out of your check for your retirement and they can’t spend it on anything else.

Instead of stamping up and down and claiming “it’s my money,” show us the contract.

And I’ll show you Fleming versus Nestor that says otherwise

:thumbsup:

Offline libertybele

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You have no idea what these programs are. And it’s not your fault because most people don’t. They are not investments. They are not a trust fund. It is a Tax. Period. End of discussion.

And the government is required by no such law to pay you back that money

Most people have no idea what Social Security is. And even when you explain it to it, they still refuse to learn


And even though MAGAS like to blame illegal immigrants for every single problem in this country, even if we had no illegal immigration, these programs would still be facing insolvency. Very few illegal immigrants are receiving Social Security benefits because legally, they can’t

Yes, I get that it's a tax.  That's not a revelation. However it IS $$ directly taken out of MY check before I even got my hands on it.  Illegal ponzi scheme, whatever, you want to call it -- we were told that it was for SS.  So, it IS MY money.  You are never going to convince me that it isn't.

As for ILLEGALS collecting -- you betcha.  The notion that they don't is false. They also can collect SSI.



Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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:thumbsup:

Seriously? A contract?  Look on the flippin' paycheck stubs -- you see amounts withdrawn and where they're supposed to go.

Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Kamaji

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Seriously? A contract?  Look on the flippin' paycheck stubs -- you see amounts withdrawn and where they're supposed to go.



You just don't get it.  You see money taken out of your paycheck for regular income tax, too.  Does that mean its still your money?  No, it doesn't.

You really need to stop believing the lies of liberals.

It is not your money, any more than the regular income tax is still your money, once the tax has been collected.

And social security benefits are nothing more than government-funded welfare benefits.  I really don't get why that is such a big problem for some people.

It would still be "your money" if you had a legally enforceable contract that gave you legal recourse to that money.

There is no contract with the federal government for social security welfare benefits.  And therefore, you have no property interest in those benefits, and nothing to call "yours".

Read the law; stop believing the lies of liberals.

Offline Kamaji

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Yes, I get that it's a tax.  That's not a revelation. However it IS $$ directly taken out of MY check before I even got my hands on it.  Illegal ponzi scheme, whatever, you want to call it -- we were told that it was for SS.  So, it IS MY money.  You are never going to convince me that it isn't.

As for ILLEGALS collecting -- you betcha.  The notion that they don't is false. They also can collect SSI.






Yes, you were told that it was for some sort of "insurance" program.  You were also told that "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" - did you believe that lie, too?


Offline LMAO

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Again, show me the contract where you paid into that therefore it’s your money that you’re entitled to get back. I’m not talking about what a politician promised. I’m talking about a contract with the government you made that you will get that money back in full one day.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1960  that is not your property that you’re entitled to get back because you paid into it. I’ll post the ruling if you’d like.

It doesn’t matter what you think it is or what anyone will convince you of. What matters is what the law says
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 02:20:18 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline LMAO

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So, it IS MY money.  You are never going to convince me that it isn't.



So the law itself won’t even convince you :shrug: :


If the government announced today that Social Security and Medicare were too expensive, and therefore, we are now getting rid of them starting today, you would have no legal recourse
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 02:35:07 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline libertybele

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Yes, you were told that it was for some sort of "insurance" program.  You were also told that "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" - did you believe that lie, too?

No, I was never told it was some sort of insurance program.  *****rollingeyes***** Come on.  This is getting ridiculous.

On a payroll check stub it shows how much $$ is being deducted for SS, Medicare/SSI.  So you tell me  ... if it shows on paycheck stubs where the money is supposed to go and it's arbitrarily taken out of one's check, whose money is it?  It certainly isn't their checks that $$ is being taken out of.

IT. IS. MY. MONEY.

Next.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline LMAO

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No, I was never told it was some sort of insurance program.  *****rollingeyes***** Come on.  This is getting ridiculous.

On a payroll check stub it shows how much $$ is being deducted for SS, Medicare/SSI.  So you tell me  ... if it shows on paycheck stubs where the money is supposed to go and it's arbitrarily taken out of one's check, whose money is it?  It certainly isn't their checks that $$ is being taken out of.

IT. IS. MY. MONEY.

Next.

It is your money. But once the government takes it out of your check, there is nothing whatsoever that says you’re entitled to get it back.

You have every right to believe whatever you want. It’s just the law says otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 02:37:55 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy