Author Topic: Trump hits DeSantis on abortion, suggests 6-week abortion ban is ‘too harsh’  (Read 1729 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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BS @Right_in_Virginia ! A human fetus is viable the instant sperm penetrates the egg wall

If this were true @Bigun ----  there would not be something called a miscarriage 


Offline Bigun

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If this were true @Bigun ----  there would not be something called a miscarriage

BZZZZ! Wrong again!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online andy58-in-nh

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I am also not certain about a 6-week ban - it is too early, in my opinion. 12-15 weeks would be more achievable in our current environment.

But it is none of my business, outside of my own state.

That was the basis of the Supreme Court's decision last year - the Federal government has no interest in the matter of abortion, but state governments do.

No one really knows how Trump personally feels about abortion or about many other things, because whatever the subject he uses it to personally attack anyone he perceives to be a rival.

Abortion is the most emotional and divisive issue in the nation, and self-evidently, opinions vary enormously on the subject.

As such, I believe that Republicans need to coalesce around a message that appeals to the broad center of American opinion, and also one that abjures the extremes on both sides. I would argue that Democrats are considerably more extreme than Republicans about abortion, but we do have some who now promote a national ban, when such a thing would be plainly unconstitutional, and support for which would lead to electoral disaster.

We ought to begin by opposing partial-birth abortion in each of our own states, for which there is both moral authority and a sizable majority of voters who would agree.  We need to work on changing hearts and minds both, before greater restrictions will gain more adherents.
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Online bigheadfred

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No, Viable is viable. If you leave the baby be, it IS viable, right up through birth and beyond.

Right. If a sperm is viable and an egg is viable they can join in a continuation of life. Viability is inherent.


She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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There is no survival outside the womb without a great deal of care and investment over the course of many years.

True.  But you're referring to nurture, I was referring to nature ---- the essential ability of the body to physically, naturally process oxygen and sustenance on its own.





« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 04:03:48 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Offline Bigun

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How?

A miscarriage does not require the interference of ANY outside force. They can and do occur naturally.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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A miscarriage does not require the interference of ANY outside force. They can and do occur naturally

True, and it's a fair point @Bigun   But, the existence of spontaneous miscarriage also supports viability outside the womb is a function of time plus development.

Offline Bigun

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True, and it's a fair point @Bigun   But, the existence of spontaneous miscarriage also supports viability outside the womb is a function of time plus development.

Not by me it doesn't! Nor has it for 99.44% of human history.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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If this were true @Bigun ----  there would not be something called a miscarriage

No - The exception proves the rule: the miscarriage IS the determination that the baby is non-viable.

Online roamer_1

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True, and it's a fair point @Bigun   But, the existence of spontaneous miscarriage also supports viability outside the womb is a function of time plus development.

What a ridiculous assertion!
The fact of occasional failure supposes failure throughout? Absurd.
Under that rubric, Because humans sometimes tip over and die for no reason, any human can be killed willy-nilly.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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What a ridiculous assertion!
The fact of occasional failure supposes failure throughout? Absurd.

No, it's really not ridiculous.  If all life were viable from the moment of conception, there would be no such thing as a miscarriage.  Viability outside the womb is a real and naturally occurring phenomenon.  Until this point is reached, the state has no say in the pregnancy, whatsoever.

Online bigheadfred

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No, it's really not ridiculous.  If all life were viable from the moment of conception, there would be no such thing as a miscarriage.  Viability outside the womb is a real and naturally occurring phenomenon.  Until this point is reached, the state has no say in the pregnancy, whatsoever.

Viability inside the womb is a real  and naturally occurring phenomenom.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Bigun

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No, it's really not ridiculous.  If all life were viable from the moment of conception, there would be no such thing as a miscarriage.  Viability outside the womb is a real and naturally occurring phenomenon.  Until this point is reached, the state has no say in the pregnancy, whatsoever.

If you end your pregnancy in THIS state as a matter of convenience, I'll assure you that the state will have something to say about that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

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BS @Right_in_Virginia ! A human fetus is viable the instant sperm penetrates the egg wall unless some outside force interferes with its development.

Come on, @Bigun   @catfish1957  @whomever else needs to know

We all agree that's true...the fertilized egg is a potential human.

But until that fetus isn't dependent upon its mother to breathe, grow and develop, only the mother can decide what happens.  SURELY, what @Right_in_Virginia is saying is that under no circumstances, should the State interfere.

Geez...RIV...you've really riled up the turkey buzzards this morning!   :yowsa:
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 04:54:59 pm by DCPatriot »
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Online roamer_1

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No, it's really not ridiculous.  If all life were viable from the moment of conception, there would be no such thing as a miscarriage.  Viability outside the womb is a real and naturally occurring phenomenon.  Until this point is reached, the state has no say in the pregnancy, whatsoever.

NONSENSE! 'Viability outside the womb' is a fallacy! People stop being viable all the time outside the womb. Sometimes for reasons we can't understand.

So viability in the womb or out of the womb is a distinction without a difference.
There is no there there.

Offline Bigun

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Come on, @Bigun   @catfish1957  @whomever else needs to know

We all agree that's true...the fertilized egg is a potential human.

But until that fetus isn't dependent upon its mother to breathe, grow and develop, only the mother can decide what happens.  SURELY, what @Right_in_Virginia is saying is that under no circumstances, should the State interfere.

No! @DCPatriot   A fertilized egg IS a human that will continue to develop nicely unless interfered with!

I has worked that way for a VERY long time now.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 05:00:54 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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Come on, @Bigun   @catfish1957  @whomever else needs to know

We all agree that's true...the fertilized egg is a potential human.

But until that fetus isn't dependent upon its mother to breathe, grow and develop, only the mother can decide what happens.  SURELY, what @Right_in_Virginia is saying is that under no circumstances, should the State interfere.


Exactly wrong, @DCPatriot The state has a direct and undeniable DUTY to protect LIFE.

Online LMAO

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So what should happen to a woman who finds out she’s pregnant but decides that she doesn’t want to be a mother? Her reasons may be selfish. But  she has made the choice that she doesn’t want to be a mother.

Should she be forced to carry? How should that be enforced?  How would that be enforced?
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Offline Bigun

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Exactly wrong, @DCPatriot The state has a direct and undeniable DUTY to protect LIFE.

The brainwashing has been effective for some.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Come on, @Bigun   @catfish1957  @whomever else needs to know

We all agree that's true...the fertilized egg is a potential human.

But until that fetus isn't dependent upon its mother to breathe, grow and develop, only the mother can decide what happens.  SURELY, what @Right_in_Virginia is saying is that under no circumstances, should the State interfere.

Geez...RIV...you've really riled up the turkey buzzards this morning!   :yowsa:

And I did so without even trying to @DCPatriot    :shrug:

Offline Bigun

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So what should happen to a woman who finds out she’s pregnant but decides that she doesn’t want to be a mother? Her reasons may be selfish. But  she has made the choice that she doesn’t want to be a mother.

Should she be forced to carry? How should that be enforced?  How would that be enforced?

Women have many ways to prevent pregnancies BEFORE they occur. I would suggest picking one of them.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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The brainwashing has been effective for some.

What brainwashing?  @Bigun

Offline Bigun

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What brainwashing?  @Bigun

God's laws are immutable @Right_in_Virginia they DO NOT change over time and especially not where life is concerned.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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So what should happen to a woman who finds out she’s pregnant but decides that she doesn’t want to be a mother? Her reasons may be selfish. But  she has made the choice that she doesn’t want to be a mother.

Should she be forced to carry? How should that be enforced?  How would that be enforced?

The long time divide (through history) has been to deny abortion. The woman can carry to term and offer the child up for adoption or raise the child. A shotgun wedding would be best. You broke it, you bought it... The first cause of the state should be to see them marry. Only after that should child support be assessed.

But abortion, while always available, has always been frowned upon.