Author Topic: Ukraine 4  (Read 220757 times)

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Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #625 on: June 24, 2023, 07:04:12 am »
Putin speaking now, talking about Wagner group "mutiny", "stab in the back", "we will defend our Motherland", "this is treason", etc.

Interesting, I don't know that the speech was live, it may have been recorded. The feed that I saw had a static photo of Putin, not a live shot.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 07:07:45 am by Ghost Bear »
Let it burn.

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #626 on: June 24, 2023, 07:06:43 am »
Putin says its "treason" so there will be no compromise with Wagner.

It sounds like the Russian military is not resisting Wagner as its troops travel towards Moscow.

If that is the case, Putin is done.


Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #627 on: June 24, 2023, 07:09:15 am »
Putin says its "treason" so there will be no compromise with Wagner.

It sounds like the Russian military is not resisting Wagner as its troops travel towards Moscow.

If that is the case, Putin is done.

I agree, this may actually be the beginning of Putin's end. Fascinating to watch in real time.
Let it burn.

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #628 on: June 24, 2023, 07:12:14 am »
The revolution is on...

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #629 on: June 24, 2023, 07:27:11 am »
As Wagner takes over key locations in various cities essentially unopposed on their way to Moscow there's a risk of their force becoming too thin. Once they're spread out over a wide area if the Russian army suddenly turns on them they can be taken out all at once. It all comes down to where the Russian military loyalties lie. We're going to find out pretty soon.

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #630 on: June 24, 2023, 07:29:06 am »

Offline Gefn

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #631 on: June 24, 2023, 07:32:15 am »
Live blog : Putin accuses Wagner group of 'treason' in national address
24/06/2023 - 09:11



https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230624-live-moscow-accuses-wagner-head-of-mutiny-he-says-his-forces-enter-russia
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #632 on: June 24, 2023, 11:32:44 am »
I agree, this may actually be the beginning of Putin's end. Fascinating to watch in real time.


Well, whoever replaces Putin I hope the person isn't worse than Putin.


I am seeing that China is concerned about the situation in Russia.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #633 on: June 24, 2023, 11:35:24 am »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #634 on: June 24, 2023, 11:41:56 am »
There are reports that Lukashenko has left Belarus





https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1672420961138757639
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #635 on: June 24, 2023, 11:44:28 am »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #636 on: June 24, 2023, 11:45:39 am »
If the military turns on him, it would seem unlikely he'd get away. The yacht is worthless as a getaway vehicle. An airplane will be tracked with modern technology.

@DB

Maybe I am wrong,but I THINK  that all he has to do is get out of Russia and apply  for diplomatic immunity. I have no doubt at all that China would give him a safe place to stay,and there may be other countries who would do the same. Former Police state leaders seem to look out  for each other.

NOT saying he won't get whacked while walking down the street if he sets up shop in Paris or some other European nation,but he would be as safe as a baby in his mother's arms if he flees to China,and he would be treated like Royalty in China.

How freaking ironic is THAT?

I am GUESSING that he MIGHT be safe in some South American nations,but I know next to nothing about them,other than Cuba. He might not even be safe in Cuba since the Communist regime there is so dependent on Russia for aide.

Then again,thee and me don't NEED to know these things,but I am reasonably certain that Pooty-Poot has been giving this sort of thing a lot of consideration recently. There can be no doubt there are a  LOT of Russians who would love  to get their hands on him,and I am not talking about officials.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 11:47:23 am by sneakypete »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #637 on: June 24, 2023, 11:51:09 am »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #638 on: June 24, 2023, 11:51:13 am »
Wagner Boss Says He’s ‘Ready to Die’ With 25,000 Fighters

 .....Top Russian military brass released video appeals calling on Prigozhin to surrender, or for his own men to detain him and hand him over. State-run media aired an emergency broadcast relaying the same message.......

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/feud-between-moscow-wagner-group-214329810.html

@Gefn

It looks like the top Soviet bosses are starting to lose control and getting scared. If their own dog can turn on them,so can their serfs.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #639 on: June 24, 2023, 11:52:05 am »
@DB

Maybe I am wrong,but I THINK  that all he has to do is get out of Russia and apply  for diplomatic immunity. I have no doubt at all that China would give him a safe place to stay,and there may be other countries who would do the same. Former Police state leaders seem to look out  for each other.

NOT saying he won't get whacked while walking down the street if he sets up shop in Paris or some other European nation,but he would be as safe as a baby in his mother's arms if he flees to China,and he would be treated like Royalty in China.

How freaking ironic is THAT?

I am GUESSING that he MIGHT be safe in some South American nations,but I know next to nothing about them,other than Cuba. He might not even be safe in Cuba since the Communist regime there is so dependent on Russia for aide.

Then again,thee and me don't NEED to know these things,but I am reasonably certain that Pooty-Poot has been giving this sort of thing a lot of consideration recently. There can be no doubt there are a  LOT of Russians who would love  to get their hands on him,and I am not talking about officials.


@sneakypete


My guess is that he will go to China.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #640 on: June 24, 2023, 11:53:21 am »
The Russian air force had to have stood down in order for Wagner to use the main freeway to move large numbers of troops/armored vehicles going towards Moscow.

@DB

Good point

And a VERY important one,given that it shows that at least one segment  of the Soviet military wants Putin gone.

There is no such  critter as a dictator that can survive without the support of his military.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 11:54:12 am by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #641 on: June 24, 2023, 11:58:54 am »
Putin speaking now, talking about Wagner group "mutiny", "stab in the back", "we will defend our Motherland", "this is treason", etc.

Interesting, I don't know that the speech was live, it may have been recorded. The feed that I saw had a static photo of Putin, not a live shot.

@Ghost Bear

Well,it has  been reported that he is having some health issues for the last year or so,and this can't help.

Has anyone seen any live videos of him doing the normal "meet and greet" sort of thing that national leaders are always doing?
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #642 on: June 24, 2023, 11:59:24 am »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Online Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #644 on: June 24, 2023, 12:01:59 pm »
Putin says its "treason" so there will be no compromise with Wagner.

It sounds like the Russian military is not resisting Wagner as its troops travel towards Moscow.

If that is the case, Putin is done.

@DB

Yup,and there SHOULD be a lot of political maneuvering going on in the background as people start maneuvering for the "soon to be open" top spot. 
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #645 on: June 24, 2023, 12:05:39 pm »
As Wagner takes over key locations in various cities essentially unopposed on their way to Moscow there's a risk of their force becoming too thin. Once they're spread out over a wide area if the Russian army suddenly turns on them they can be taken out all at once. It all comes down to where the Russian military loyalties lie. We're going to find out pretty soon.

@DB

Good point,but I suspect there  is no one in Russia that the military hates more at this point.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #646 on: June 24, 2023, 12:08:45 pm »
Live blog : Putin accuses Wagner group of 'treason' in national address
24/06/2023 - 09:11



https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230624-live-moscow-accuses-wagner-head-of-mutiny-he-says-his-forces-enter-russia

@Gefn

Putin is a Soviet Dictator,and the last thing a dictator needs to do is expose himself as a paper tiger. For a dictator,which  is what ALL Soviet rulers have been,to say something like that shows desperation.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #647 on: June 24, 2023, 12:11:47 pm »

Well, whoever replaces Putin I hope the person isn't worse than Putin.


I am seeing that China is concerned about the situation in Russia.

"Concerned" as in wondering if now is the time for them to move in on the basicially  unguarded resources of coastal Russia.

BTW,the whole "Eastern Russia and Western Russia has always had me confused. WHAT is the part of Russia that is closest to Alaska ,eastern or western Russia?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #648 on: June 24, 2023, 12:14:50 pm »

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1672567432773263360

@kevindavis007

Moscow has  always been a protected city  ever since the Communists took over from the Czars. Anyone that wants to live and work there needs special permission. Don't forget,the USSR is not a place where you can just move somewhere and rent an apartment because  ALL the housing belongs to the state,so the state is your landlord.

Not even Russian soldiers that lost a limb or were blinded during WW-2 that were born and lived their whole lives in Moscow were allowed to live  there after WW-2.  The Soviets had an image of Moscow/life in Russia that they wanted to project upon the world,and that image did not include crippled veterans.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 12:18:46 pm by sneakypete »
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #649 on: June 24, 2023, 12:14:55 pm »
Putin is a Soviet Dictator,and the last thing a dictator needs to do is expose himself as a paper tiger. For a dictator,which  is what ALL Soviet rulers have been,to say something like that shows desperation.

Agreed.  There is no backing out for Putin now.  No chance of negotiation with Prigozhin.  One does not come to terms with "traitors".  Putin has backed himself into a corner.  Lukashenko has fled Belarus.  Shoigu is rounding up what military units are left and sending them to Moscow.  I hope Ukraine can take advantage of this.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-