Ukraine 4

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I agree.. They really have the courage to stand up to the 2nd largest military. I see it this way. If we support Ukraine now, we are helping Russia (in some way China) to lose. It's going to take a long time for Russia to rebuild its military. If there is Russia left after this war.  Translation, it is expensive now, but if Russia (again in some way China) wins, it is going to be more expensive down the road.

That's exactly why I support continuing to provide Ukraine with weapons and ammo.  Much better use for them than sitting for decades in warehouses until they expire.

[Smokin Joe]

That's exactly why I support continuing to provide Ukraine with weapons and ammo.  Much better use for them than sitting for decades in warehouses until they expire.

Yep. It may look more and more like a proxy war, but for those who have long harbored the Cold War model of NATO countries being swarmed by waves of Russian armour in a neo-blitzkreig, well, that possibility is increasingly rusting/resting in Ukraine, one rusting hulk or captured vehicle at a time.

A lot of gee-whiz weapons systems are being tried and tested, with the opportunity to upgrade or tweak them as this goes, in a face-off with their east bloc equivalents.

The only downside is that there may be 'leakage' of that tech, but much of it has been around or is not the very top shelf stuff, and NATO countries are able to donate that gear to be used (instead of disposed of or decommissioned later, at expense) and devote themselves to further internal upgrades.

From that perspective, it is a win/win/win situation for the West.

[bilo]

Yep. It may look more and more like a proxy war, but for those who have long harbored the Cold War model of NATO countries being swarmed by waves of Russian armour in a neo-blitzkreig, well, that possibility is increasingly rusting/resting in Ukraine, one rusting hulk or captured vehicle at a time.

A lot of gee-whiz weapons systems are being tried and tested, with the opportunity to upgrade or tweak them as this goes, in a face-off with their east bloc equivalents.

The only downside is that there may be 'leakage' of that tech, but much of it has been around or is not the very top shelf stuff, and NATO countries are able to donate that gear to be used (instead of disposed of or decommissioned later, at expense) and devote themselves to further internal upgrades.

From that perspective, it is a win/win/win situation for the West.

I'm in complete agreement with helping Ukraine with weapons and ammo. However, I would like to see a real discussion about withdrawing from NATO and bringing home most of our troops from around the world. Our defense budget is unsustainable and only serves to let other nations coast on our sacrifices.

After WWII we set up a system to encircle the USSR and secured trade. We don't need to keep doing this as it only helps the globalists grow in power.  The USSR is gone and Russia is destroying itself with this war on Ukraine.

[Smokin Joe]

I'm in complete agreement with helping Ukraine with weapons and ammo. However, I would like to see a real discussion about withdrawing from NATO and bringing home most of our troops from around the world. Our defense budget is unsustainable and only serves to let other nations coast on our sacrifices.

After WWII we set up a system to encircle the USSR and secured trade. We don't need to keep doing this as it only helps the globalists grow in power.  The USSR is gone and Russia is destroying itself with this war on Ukraine.

While I agree in part, let's not ignore the growing threat that is China.

But for now, the greatest threat to the Republic is the people running it.

[PeteS in CA]

Whether you support aid to the Ukrainians or not, you have to admire the tenacity with which they have defended their country.  Pretty much the entire rest of the world expected them to be overwhelmed and submit quickly, but they refused.   Not often you see courage like that.

In Putin's fantasy, Ukraine would be overrun in 3 or 4 weeks. He probably planned to celebrate Easter 2022 in Kyiv.

Family history aside, I do not want part or all of Ukraine grafted into Putin's empire.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@kevindavis007

I am in total agreement,and would like to add I am a HUGE fan of the idea that no US troops will be involved in the fighting.

Seems like for my entire life I have been waiting for Russia to invade Europe,and either being a US soldier sent off to fight  "The Red Peril",or watching other US troops being sent off to a foreign land once again to fight and die.

I am as giddy as a school girl over the possibility of Soviet communism being handed it's ass,and it happening without involving US combat troops.

Amen brother.   Breaking the Russian Empire for good without a single U.S. soldier being lost would be an incredible success.  It would basically end Europe as a front in a potential war.

It also would strengthen ties with Europe to the detriment of China's ambitions.  Solid win all around.

[Smokin Joe]

In Putin's fantasy, Ukraine would be overrun in 3 or 4 weeks. He probably planned to celebrate Easter 2022 in Kyiv.

Family history aside, I do not want part or all of Ukraine grafted into Putin's empire.

Aside from impressive grain growing regions, Ukraine produced a large share of its oil and gas, 87% of which was in the regions Russia invaded (Donbas), along with reserves of hard coal (particularly anthracite), rock salt, lignite, mercury, and various ores.

This was an  attempt at economic seizure, to control food and other resources.

I have a problem with Russia invading a sovereign nation to take their natural wealth, and any increase in Russian ability to use that wealth as an implement of policy.

Aside from that let Ukraine decide its destiny and provide the materiel it needs to fight off the invasion.

Now, if only we would do that for our own country, too, instead of spending king's ransoms catering to those who are invading us.

[DB]

The Democrats don't like America's European ancestry/culture and seek to replace it. Thus far they've been successful.

[Smokin Joe]

The Democrats don't like America's European ancestry/culture and seek to replace it. Thus far they've been successful.

It isn't that they don't like it, they want the throne..

[sneakypete]

It isn't that they don't like it, they want the throne..

@Smokin Joe

EXACTLY!

Hell,the majority  of the DIMs ancestors came from Europe. Only a minority of them came from Israel (and most of THEM were born and raised in Europe) or Asia.

I may be wrong,but I think only a minority of the Asian immigrants or their ancestors vote "Left".

[kevindavis007]

@kevindavis007

I am in total agreement,and would like to add I am a HUGE fan of the idea that no US troops will be involved in the fighting.

Seems like for my entire life I have been waiting for Russia to invade Europe,and either being a US soldier sent off to fight  "The Red Peril",or watching other US troops being sent off to a foreign land once again to fight and die.

I am as giddy as a school girl over the possibility of Soviet communism being handed it's ass,and it happening without involving US combat troops.

@sneakypete




That is where I draw the line. No American troops. Let the Ukrainians kill the Orcs. While China squirm.

[DB]

The "throne" comes with replacing our culture. Replace the culture by replacing the people. Third world culture gets you third world problems. All those third world problems impowers the Democrats to loot the country while there is still something to loot.

[Hoodat]

I'm in complete agreement with helping Ukraine with weapons and ammo. However, I would like to see a real discussion about withdrawing from NATO and bringing home most of our troops from around the world. Our defense budget is unsustainable and only serves to let other nations coast on our sacrifices.

One good thing to come out of this war is that some NATO members are beginning to step up to the plate and pony up more money for defense.  This is especially true for the newer Eastern members who are America's staunchest allies, much more so than Germany, Belgium, France, and Italy.

[Hoodat]

Ukraine hacks Russian Crimea TV

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/140ln8t/tv_channels_in_crimea_have_been_hacked/

[Hoodat]

Wagner Ready To Defend Russia's Border Region After Whole Towns Evacuated

TYLER DURDEN  |  JUN 03, 2023  |  07:00 PM

The war from across the border has impacted citizens in the Belgorod region of Russia to the point that many towns and villages have been evacuated, with some looking like ghost towns--this after armed groups mounted multiple raids since the war's start--as well as increased shelling and rocket fire. Just two days ago the anti-Moscow "Russian Volunteer Corps" said they launched another attack out of Ukraine, after a bigger one nearly two weeks ago left multiple casualties and many saboteurs killed.

The New York Times wrote on Saturday that "Shebekino, a town of 40,000 six miles from the border, has effectively become a new part of the front line as Ukraine has intensified attacks inside Russia, including on residential areas near its own borders." This is all upending the lives of residents in the border region, akin to what already happened long ago on the Ukrainian side of the border. "The spate of assaults, most recently by militia groups aligned against Moscow, has sparked the largest military evacuation effort in Russia in decades," the report underscored. The past days have witnessed area residents move into temporary shelters, including the large Belgorod arena in the oblast capital.  .  .

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/wagner-ready-defend-russias-border-region-after-whole-towns-evacuated

[Smokin Joe]

Wagner Ready To Defend Russia's Border Region After Whole Towns Evacuated

TYLER DURDEN  |  JUN 03, 2023  |  07:00 PM

The war from across the border has impacted citizens in the Belgorod region of Russia to the point that many towns and villages have been evacuated, with some looking like ghost towns--this after armed groups mounted multiple raids since the war's start--as well as increased shelling and rocket fire. Just two days ago the anti-Moscow "Russian Volunteer Corps" said they launched another attack out of Ukraine, after a bigger one nearly two weeks ago left multiple casualties and many saboteurs killed.

The New York Times wrote on Saturday that "Shebekino, a town of 40,000 six miles from the border, has effectively become a new part of the front line as Ukraine has intensified attacks inside Russia, including on residential areas near its own borders." This is all upending the lives of residents in the border region, akin to what already happened long ago on the Ukrainian side of the border. "The spate of assaults, most recently by militia groups aligned against Moscow, has sparked the largest military evacuation effort in Russia in decades," the report underscored. The past days have witnessed area residents move into temporary shelters, including the large Belgorod arena in the oblast capital.  .  .

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/wagner-ready-defend-russias-border-region-after-whole-towns-evacuated

Keeping the military busy handling refugee flows and trying to move among those is an effective way to throw a monkey wrench into the hopes of a Russian Spring offensive. For a minimum of harassment, a lot of troops can be tied up, along with transport that could be bringing in more troops or moving materiel. that doesn't stop them from loafing those same trucks on a return trip, but it consumes time between loads. In the end, it is just that much less ordnance and that many fewer troops at the front.

[Timber Rattler]

Something going on in southern Ukraine today...

Russia says it thwarted major Ukrainian offensive, Kyiv says Moscow spreads lies

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-its-forces-thwarted-major-ukrainian-offensive-2023-06-04/

Russia said on Monday its forces had thwarted a major Ukrainian offensive at five points along the front in the Ukrainian region of Donetsk and killed hundreds of troops while Ukraine accused Moscow of spreading lies.

It was not immediately clear whether or not the attack represented the start of a Ukrainian counteroffensive which Kyiv has been promising for months to drive out Russian forces after the invasion of February 2022.

Russia's defence ministry said Ukraine had attacked on Sunday morning with six mechanised and two tank battalions in southern Donetsk, where Moscow has long suspected Ukraine would seek to drive a wedge through Russian-controlled territory.

"On the morning of June 4, the enemy launched a large-scale offensive in five sectors of the front in the South Donetsk direction," the defence ministry said in a statement posted on Telegram at 1:30 a.m. Moscow time (2230 GMT).

"The enemy's goal was to break through our defences in the most vulnerable, in its opinion, sector of the front," it said. "The enemy did not achieve its tasks, it had no success."

Reuters was unable to immediately verify the Russian statement and the Ukrainian defence ministry and military did not immediately respond to written requests for comment.

The commander of Ukraine's ground forces, Oleksandr Syrskyi, said on Monday that Ukrainian forces continued "moving forward" near the long-contested city of Bakhmut in northern Donetsk. He made no comment on the counter-offensive.

The daily report from Ukraine's General Staff said only that there were 29 combat clashes in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine's Centre for Strategic Communications did not address the Russian statement directly but said, without providing evidence, that Russia would seek to spread lies.

"To demoralize Ukrainians and mislead the community (including their own population), Russian propagandists will spread false information about the counteroffensive, its directions, and the losses of the Ukrainian army," it said.

Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov published a cryptic message on Twitter on Sunday, quoting Depeche Mode's track "Enjoy the Silence".

EXCERPT

[Kamaji]

'The start of Russian civil war': Wagner mercenaries CAPTURE officer in Putin's regular army and accuse him of ordering his men to fire on their troops as split between groups creates chaos

The Russian soldier admitted shooting at Wagner group vehicles while drunk
It is latest report of infighting between Wagner mercenaries and Russian army

By DAVID AVERRE and WILL STEWART
5 June 2023

Mercenaries from Russia's Wagner group have taken captive a lieutenant colonel from Vladimir Putin's regular forces in the latest example of bitter infighting in Russian ranks.

The captured colonel was seen hanging his head in a humiliating video posted by the Wagner group in which he confessed his 'guilt' and admitted to being drunk on duty after allegedly shooting at a Wagner vehicle.

This follows claims by the mercenaries that the regular Russian army targeted their ranks with mines, as a clip showed their sappers clearing the explosive devices from a road.

Wagner mercenaries have been fighting for Putin in Ukraine and are credited with seizing the embattled city of Bakhmut from Ukrainian armed forces after months of bloody warfare.

But its success has seemingly angered regular Russian army commanders.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has launched several verbal tirades at Putin's military leaders. He has accused them of ordering their troops to retreat from their positions and leaving Wagner fighters unprotected on the frontlines.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12159689/Wagner-mercenaries-CAPTURE-officer-Putins-regular-army-split-groups-intensifies.html

[kevindavis007]

This is the main reason to support Ukraine. It might have saved Taiwan from invasion:



Russia-Ukraine war has important inspiration for China’s operations against Taiwan
https://www.china-arms.com/2022/02/russia-ukraine-war-inspiration-taiwan/


FWIW, I don't think that the CCP Military is all that good either.

[kevindavis007]

'The start of Russian civil war': Wagner mercenaries CAPTURE officer in Putin's regular army and accuse him of ordering his men to fire on their troops as split between groups creates chaos

The Russian soldier admitted shooting at Wagner group vehicles while drunk
It is latest report of infighting between Wagner mercenaries and Russian army

By DAVID AVERRE and WILL STEWART
5 June 2023

Mercenaries from Russia's Wagner group have taken captive a lieutenant colonel from Vladimir Putin's regular forces in the latest example of bitter infighting in Russian ranks.

The captured colonel was seen hanging his head in a humiliating video posted by the Wagner group in which he confessed his 'guilt' and admitted to being drunk on duty after allegedly shooting at a Wagner vehicle.

This follows claims by the mercenaries that the regular Russian army targeted their ranks with mines, as a clip showed their sappers clearing the explosive devices from a road.

Wagner mercenaries have been fighting for Putin in Ukraine and are credited with seizing the embattled city of Bakhmut from Ukrainian armed forces after months of bloody warfare.

But its success has seemingly angered regular Russian army commanders.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has launched several verbal tirades at Putin's military leaders. He has accused them of ordering their troops to retreat from their positions and leaving Wagner fighters unprotected on the frontlines.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12159689/Wagner-mercenaries-CAPTURE-officer-Putins-regular-army-split-groups-intensifies.html

Russia is literally a ticking time bomb..

[Kamaji]

This is the main reason to support Ukraine. It might have saved Taiwan from invasion:



Russia-Ukraine war has important inspiration for China’s operations against Taiwan
https://www.china-arms.com/2022/02/russia-ukraine-war-inspiration-taiwan/


FWIW, I don't think that the CCP Military is all that good either.

Well, that article didn't age well.

Here's a sample:

Russian military forces completely paralyzed Ukraine’s overall command capability within an hour and destroyed its airpower almost completely on the ground. Within the next 12 hours, ground and airborne forces completed the occupation of key target areas, and odds are that the war objectives will be achieved within 48 hours. Russia has destroyed a medium-sized country with a standing army of 150,000 and a complete military-industrial system in less than a day.

[sneakypete]

Russia is literally a ticking time bomb..

@kevindavis007

Which can  be defused quickly  by a quick change in the top leadership because Russia IS a state with "One Man Rule".

Yes,that IS a slight exaggeration because some of the "top comrades" have became even wealthier under Putin's rule,but anybody  that doesn't think the "top comrades" will gather up as much of their wealth as they can grab in a hurry and haul ass to the west to seek asylum the first time Putin blinks just hasn't been paying any attention.

The FACT is that Communism is a COLOSSAL scam to enrich and protect the rulers at the expense of everyone else. This is such an obvious fact that Ray Charles used to have to wear shades to even glance at it.

The Soviet leadership had good luck shielding these basic truths from the Soviet population for decades by sealing off Russia from outside news sources back in the days  when all news was printed and distributed via paper,but in today's electronic world,that "shield" has fallen apart. VERY few Russians under 70 years of age believe it,with the exception of the children of the "top comrades",who live VERY well indeed under Communist Rule.

[kevindavis007]

Well, that article didn't age well.

The article aged like milk.

[Kamaji]

The article aged like milk.

[kevindavis007]

@kevindavis007

Which can  be defused quickly  by a quick change in the top leadership because Russia IS a state with "One Man Rule".

Yes,that IS a slight exaggeration because some of the "top comrades" have became even wealthier under Putin's rule,but anybody  that doesn't think the "top comrades" will gather up as much of their wealth as they can grab in a hurry and haul ass to the west to seek asylum the first time Putin blinks just hasn't been paying any attention.

The FACT is that Communism is a COLOSSAL scam to enrich and protect the rulers at the expense of everyone else. This is such an obvious fact that Ray Charles used to have to wear shades to even glance at it.

The Soviet leadership had good luck shielding these basic truths from the Soviet population for decades by sealing off Russia from outside news sources back in the days  when all news was printed and distributed via paper,but in today's electronic world,that "shield" has fallen apart. VERY few Russians under 70 years of age believe it,with the exception of the children of the "top comrades",who live VERY well indeed under Communist Rule.

@sneakypete


We shall see what happens in the next month of two.