Author Topic: McConnell fears Republicans could 'screw this up' and lose the Senate in 2024  (Read 3369 times)

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Offline libertybele

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@roamer_1

There ARE no other options for President if you have any interest at all in saving America.

Granted,who runs for and wins Congressional and Senate seats is of major importance,also. Not enough attention seems to be going towards candidates for those seats. Maybe because it is still so "early". I HOPE that is the reason,anyway.

Yeah,the Presidential elections are important,but so are the congressional and senate seats.

Not to mention the local political positions,which gets little attention BECAUSE they are "local".

@sneakypete conservatives seated in the Senate and House are extremely important -- their roles make laws and hold the purse strings.  They also have the ability to impeach (as you know).  Each branch of government has their own roles obviously.  Take a look back at how much the DEM majority House had an impact on Trump's presidency.  Which brings up the fact that when Trump first took office he had a GOP majority and it was wasted as he had his chance to build the wall and didn't. Granted Ryan was no help, but Trump never even made an attempt until the few weeks leading up to the mid term elections and the House then became led by Pelosi and the DEMS.

I'll also add the Cruz several times brought to Trump's attention that the wall needed to be built, but again, Trump waited till just a few short weeks before the mid terms.

That issue was what Trump ran on and yes, he managed to repair much of the existing border and added additional parts of the wall, but it never got completed.  With a full majority in his first 2 years, there's no excuse. 
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Offline roamer_1

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:mauslaff:  Who?  The fool who couldn't even rally his political allies to get a wall built, or Obamacare repealed?  The guy who has few political allies because he inevitably ends up shitting all over them sooner rather than later?

Trump is great at tweeting insults and at getting liberal undies all twisted up, and liberal pearls clutched, but he is terrible at turning any of that into actual positive results.  He's like a failed real estate agent who has a wonderful pitch rehearsed, but can't actually convert any of his pitches into actual sales.

Trump is not going to save America from anything, least of all the liberal policy ideas he's started to publicly espouse (once again).

That's right.  :beer:

Offline Bigun

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The window for saving this country by any legal means is now firmly closed.
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Offline libertybele

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:mauslaff:  Who?  The fool who couldn't even rally his political allies to get a wall built, or Obamacare repealed?  The guy who has few political allies because he inevitably ends up shitting all over them sooner rather than later?

Trump is great at tweeting insults and at getting liberal undies all twisted up, and liberal pearls clutched, but he is terrible at turning any of that into actual positive results.  He's like a failed real estate agent who has a wonderful pitch rehearsed, but can't actually convert any of his pitches into actual sales.

Trump is not going to save America from anything, least of all the liberal policy ideas he's started to publicly espouse (once again).

In fairness, @Kamaji he did get a lot of the wall repaired and some new wall placed and implemented Title 42 which helped tremendously with border security.  Trump had us energy independent, re-negotiated NAFTA and new 'deals' with China and held Putin at bay.  Inflation was low.

He had us headed in a more positive direction then we're headed now. 

Yes, he's reverted back to bullying and I agree the liberal policies that he's touching upon and going after conservatives has lost my vote.  Neither saving pennies and picking the right people were one of his attributes either.
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline libertybele

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The window for saving this country by any legal means is now firmly closed.

Indeed.  That window closed when SCOTUS turned their backs on us.
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete

Messianic nonsense.

@roamer_1

Ok,bubba,name YOUR dream candidate and splain to all us how he/she/it is going to get elected.
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Offline sneakypete

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:mauslaff:  Who?  The fool who couldn't even rally his political allies to get a wall built, or Obamacare repealed?  The guy who has few political allies because he inevitably ends up shitting all over them sooner rather than later?

Trump is great at tweeting insults and at getting liberal undies all twisted up, and liberal pearls clutched, but he is terrible at turning any of that into actual positive results.  He's like a failed real estate agent who has a wonderful pitch rehearsed, but can't actually convert any of his pitches into actual sales.

Trump is not going to save America from anything, least of all the liberal policy ideas he's started to publicly espouse (once again).

@Kamaji

I guess all this means you are going to be supporting Bush?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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The window for saving this country by any legal means is now firmly closed.

@Bigun

I REALLY,REALLY  want to  argue  with you,but if Trump isn't elected,and the "Miss Manners" fans are dedicated to making sure this never happens,I see no other options. Not happy about it,but not going to stick my  head in the sand and ignore it,either.

BTW,I am under NO illusion that Trump,or ANYONE ELSE,can turn this around in one term. It  happened slowly over a few decades,and NOBODY is going to be able to reverse the course in a mere 4 years.

I doubt it can be done even if you were to add another 8 years of some "unknown/unnamed at this time " future conservative president. IF it happens at all,the changes will be so modest at first that it will take years for them to begin to have a real effect. We are going to HAVE to accept the FACT that we are not going to get what we want right away,REGARDLESS of who is elected.

I WOULD like to see at least SOME effort made to do that,and for the discussion about it to continue,though.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 03:02:46 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Kamaji

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In fairness, @Kamaji he did get a lot of the wall repaired and some new wall placed and implemented Title 42 which helped tremendously with border security.  Trump had us energy independent, re-negotiated NAFTA and new 'deals' with China and held Putin at bay.  Inflation was low.

He had us headed in a more positive direction then we're headed now. 

Yes, he's reverted back to bullying and I agree the liberal policies that he's touching upon and going after conservatives has lost my vote.  Neither saving pennies and picking the right people were one of his attributes either.

He couldn't do anything with the wall except through executive orders, which he had to resort to because he didn't have sufficient pull in Congress to get it done through enactment of a law.  He failed as a leader on that, and as a result, when Biden entered office, he simply reversed Trump's executive order - easy come, easy go.

Low inflation was a confluence of (a) general economic conditions, which are normally not the result of any President's actions, and (b) he and Congress not taking radical steps to interfere in the economy.  But that is a negative only, not a positive action.  And, at any rate, he dropped that value like a hot potato once COVID-19 presented him with the opportunity to pretend to be a latter-day FDR, spending like a drunken sailor to "save" the country, mostly from the same stupid government shutdowns that his administration countenanced - and to the extent that his administration was countenancing actions he did not personally agree with, that again is merely evidence of his failure as a leader, demonstrating that he simply didn't have the leadership skills necessary to get his own administration under control.

The same with energy independence - the best that can be said of him is that he didn't meddle with things; contra Biden and the democrats, who have been meddling with the energy economy since Biden was elected.  So, at least we can, once again, praise him for not doing anything, sort of damnation by faint praise.

About his only two accomplishments were tinkering with NAFTA - and giving it a nifty new name - and running negotiations between Israel and several other middle east countries.

Otherwise, he wasn't particularly effective as a president, and much of that can be chalked up to his inability to build coalitions within Congress or with other national political leaders (such as state governors - even now he hasn't figured that one out, as witness his trashing of Governor DeSantis).

Offline Kamaji

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@Kamaji

I guess all this means you are going to be supporting Bush?

Wow.  WADR, you are a f**king idiot if that's what you think; that or a f**king liar.

Since you support Trump, by your own logic, that means you necessarily support all of the liberal stupidity being put into place by Biden because Trump has now allied himself with Biden and the democrats in terms of policy choices.  So, you support Biden, by your own logic.

Offline roamer_1

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@roamer_1

Ok,bubba,name YOUR dream candidate and splain to all us how he/she/it is going to get elected.

@sneakypete

I will back DeSantis, as I have said before, but that is beside the point.

*NO* single man is going to do shit. This hero bullshit has just naturally got to stop. What it takes is a united Right, all going in the same direction. THAT is the ONLY thing that is ever effective. The spear point of that is elected officials - Congress AND Administration functioning together to move in that single direction.

And your messiah has already proven he can't do that. Equally important, this slavish hero worship distracts from the real need to build agreement in the congress and the senate. Instead, divisiveness reigns.

So stop it. Your way produces nothing. Predictably, another super-expensive administration that we dare not afford, producing a temporary relief at best, while governing only by EO - A flatulent mist that vanishes long before the morning... And the entire Right in even more disarray.

Offline Kamaji

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@sneakypete

I will back DeSantis, as I have said before, but that is beside the point.

*NO* single man is going to do shit. This hero bullshit has just naturally got to stop. What it takes is a united Right, all going in the same direction. THAT is the ONLY thing that is ever effective. The spear point of that is elected officials - Congress AND Administration functioning together to move in that single direction.

And your messiah has already proven he can't do that. Equally important, this slavish hero worship distracts from the real need to build agreement in the congress and the senate. Instead, divisiveness reigns.

So stop it. Your way produces nothing. Predictably, another super-expensive administration that we dare not afford, producing a temporary relief at best, while governing only by EO - A flatulent mist that vanishes long before the morning... And the entire Right in even more disarray.


:thumbsup:

Ultimately, it involves building coalitions amongst people who, even if they have many disparate aims and goals, are willing to come together to accomplish certain projects, provided that each sees value to some part of the project.

That is much of what Reagan meant when he said that you could get a lot accomplished if you didn't care who got the credit.

Trump and his management style are antithetical to that entire concept.  He simply cannot do it; he's used an internally antagonistic management style for too long now to be able to change his fundamental actions.  Setting one's subordinates up to compete with each other may work in the context of a for-profit business, because the one thing that unites all of them is the desire for economic wealth - they're all tied together by money - but that does not work outside of the narrow confines of a for-profit business (and oftentimes, it doesn't even work within a for-profit business, as witnessed by the number of Trump organizations that went through bankruptcy at least once).  It certainly doesn't work in political office.  There is a different currency of the realm at play there, and one needs to be able to figure out what that is if one wishes to be an effective political leader.

Offline roamer_1

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:thumbsup:

Ultimately, it involves building coalitions amongst people who, even if they have many disparate aims and goals, are willing to come together to accomplish certain projects, provided that each sees value to some part of the project.

That is much of what Reagan meant when he said that you could get a lot accomplished if you didn't care who got the credit.


That's right... And the genesis of the Conservative Coalition, and later morphed into the Reagan Coalition, was for that purpose = Various factions lending weight to each other to move in a general direction. Every other thing, by the way, works AGAINST that coalition, to include Tumpy and Co.

Quote
Trump and his management style are antithetical to that entire concept.  He simply cannot do it; he's used an internally antagonistic management style for too long now to be able to change his fundamental actions.  Setting one's subordinates up to compete with each other may work in the context of a for-profit business, because the one thing that unites all of them is the desire for economic wealth - they're all tied together by money - but that does not work outside of the narrow confines of a for-profit business (and oftentimes, it doesn't even work within a for-profit business, as witnessed by the number of Trump organizations that went through bankruptcy at least once).  It certainly doesn't work in political office.  There is a different currency of the realm at play there, and one needs to be able to figure out what that is if one wishes to be an effective political leader.

I have a bit of experience in that, in business I mean. When leading, being an ***hole is sometimes necessary. Being compassionate is also sometimes necessary. The Patton-esque idea of an iron-fisted CEO, all my-way-or-the-highway is mostly illusion. Even as it is in parenting from the father's point of view.

The problem with carrying the hammer is that you can't use it very much... Only in extreme circumstances, and even then, your aim must be true. The line between righteous leading and being a bullying a**hole is bright and easy to see.

Tough but fair is what works. Make the hard calls no one else will. Call a spade a spade. Be firm and decisive. Take the hit when it messes up. And always be willing to swing the hammer.

But swing that hammer all the time, and your influencers will become yes men, and your people will grovel. That is a heady thing, but it is not productive, and is doomed to failure... Because wisdom has left by that point, and all that's left is ego. And ego is a very poor judge.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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He couldn't do anything with the wall except through executive orders, which he had to resort to because he didn't have sufficient pull in Congress to get it done through enactment of a law.  He failed as a leader on that, and as a result, when Biden entered office, he simply reversed Trump's executive order - easy come, easy go.

Low inflation was a confluence of (a) general economic conditions, which are normally not the result of any President's actions, and (b) he and Congress not taking radical steps to interfere in the economy.  But that is a negative only, not a positive action.  And, at any rate, he dropped that value like a hot potato once COVID-19 presented him with the opportunity to pretend to be a latter-day FDR, spending like a drunken sailor to "save" the country, mostly from the same stupid government shutdowns that his administration countenanced - and to the extent that his administration was countenancing actions he did not personally agree with, that again is merely evidence of his failure as a leader, demonstrating that he simply didn't have the leadership skills necessary to get his own administration under control.

The same with energy independence - the best that can be said of him is that he didn't meddle with things; contra Biden and the democrats, who have been meddling with the energy economy since Biden was elected.  So, at least we can, once again, praise him for not doing anything, sort of damnation by faint praise.

About his only two accomplishments were tinkering with NAFTA - and giving it a nifty new name - and running negotiations between Israel and several other middle east countries.

Otherwise, he wasn't particularly effective as a president, and much of that can be chalked up to his inability to build coalitions within Congress or with other national political leaders (such as state governors - even now he hasn't figured that one out, as witness his trashing of Governor DeSantis).

 :amen:

Offline kevindavis007

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He couldn't do anything with the wall except through executive orders, which he had to resort to because he didn't have sufficient pull in Congress to get it done through enactment of a law.  He failed as a leader on that, and as a result, when Biden entered office, he simply reversed Trump's executive order - easy come, easy go.

Low inflation was a confluence of (a) general economic conditions, which are normally not the result of any President's actions, and (b) he and Congress not taking radical steps to interfere in the economy.  But that is a negative only, not a positive action.  And, at any rate, he dropped that value like a hot potato once COVID-19 presented him with the opportunity to pretend to be a latter-day FDR, spending like a drunken sailor to "save" the country, mostly from the same stupid government shutdowns that his administration countenanced - and to the extent that his administration was countenancing actions he did not personally agree with, that again is merely evidence of his failure as a leader, demonstrating that he simply didn't have the leadership skills necessary to get his own administration under control.

The same with energy independence - the best that can be said of him is that he didn't meddle with things; contra Biden and the democrats, who have been meddling with the energy economy since Biden was elected.  So, at least we can, once again, praise him for not doing anything, sort of damnation by faint praise.

About his only two accomplishments were tinkering with NAFTA - and giving it a nifty new name - and running negotiations between Israel and several other middle east countries.

Otherwise, he wasn't particularly effective as a president, and much of that can be chalked up to his inability to build coalitions within Congress or with other national political leaders (such as state governors - even now he hasn't figured that one out, as witness his trashing of Governor DeSantis).


Well, there was the Space Force and Project Artemis, but the main issue that I have with Trump was due to the fact that he used Executive Orders willy-nilly.
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Offline cato potatoe

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https://twitter.com/PiersUncensored/status/1655666772861657108

It seems the characters are going to dominate the Arizona GOP for a while longer, so the senate race is less promising.  We have to pick up 2 seats in order to flip the chamber, assuming the presidency is lost. 

Offline libertybele

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Wow.  WADR, you are a f**king idiot if that's what you think; that or a f**king liar.

Since you support Trump, by your own logic, that means you necessarily support all of the liberal stupidity being put into place by Biden because Trump has now allied himself with Biden and the democrats in terms of policy choices.  So, you support Biden, by your own logic.

So much for not attacking Briefers.   22222frying pan
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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The point that really bears repeating here is that much of the credit given to Trump for his accomplishments went to things that were too easily reversed, and that is largely due to Trump's own habit of alienating anyone who isn't 100% loyal to him.

We should have neutered Obamacare, but Trump had gone out of his way to offend the easily offended John McCain, who retaliated by killing Obamacare reform just to deprive Trump of a victory.

He didn't get through anything on the border except emergency funding that wasn't sufficient, and that was started too late into his Presidency to be completed anyway.  What's sad about that is that it appears two Republican governors who started shipping illegals up north to sanctuary cities may have had a lot more success shifting the debate on illegal immigration than Trump ever did as President.

Other than the tax bill - which got written by Ryan and rammed through by the despised Ryan and McConnell - the rest was just EO's, easily reversed by Biden. That's why it shouldn't be a shock to see the damage Biden has been able to do barely two years into his presidency.

The other part of Trump's legacy that shouldn't be overlooked is giving us a Democrat House in 2018, which pretty much ended any chance of legislative accomplishments in the second half of his term.

The guy is the anti-coalition builder because everything is "Me v. The World", and without the ability to build legislative coalitions, he'd get even less done in a second term than he did in the first...unless he slides left, decides to increase spending, and can grab a bunch of Democrat votes that way to create his "legacy".
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 07:42:29 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Kamaji

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The point that really bears repeating here is that much of the credit given to Trump for his accomplishments went to things that were too easily reversed, and that is largely due to Trump's own habit of alienating anyone who isn't 100% loyal to him.

We should have neutered Obamacare, but Trump had gone out of his way to offend the easily offended John McCain, who retaliated by killing Obamacare reform just to deprive Trump of a victory.

He didn't get through anything on the border except emergency funding that wasn't sufficient, and that was started too late into his Presidency to be completed anyway.  What's sad about that is that it appears two Republican governors who have started shipping illegals up north to sanctuary cities May have had a lot more success shifting the debate on illegal immigration than Trump ever did as President.

Other than the tax bill - which got written by Ryan and rammed through by the despised Ryan and McConnell - the rest was just EO's, easily reversed by Biden. That's why it shouldn't be a shock to see the damage Biden has been able to do barely two years into his presidency.

The other part of Trump's legacy that shouldn't be overlooked is giving us a Democrat House in 2018, which pretty much ended any chance of legislative accomplishments in the second half of his term.

The guy is the anti-coalition builder because everything is "Me v. The World", and without the ability to build legislative coalitions, he'd get even less done in a second term than he did in the first...unless he slides left, decides to increase spending, and can grab a bunch of Democrat votes that way to create his "legacy".

:thumbsup:

Offline andy58-in-nh

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The guy is the anti-coalition builder because everything is "Me v. The World".

Bears repeating.  yogi555 yogi555 yogi555 yogi555 yogi555
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@Bigun

I REALLY,REALLY  want to  argue  with you,but if Trump isn't elected,and the "Miss Manners" fans are dedicated to making sure this never happens,I see no other options. Not happy about it,but not going to stick my  head in the sand and ignore it,either.

BTW,I am under NO illusion that Trump,or ANYONE ELSE,can turn this around in one term. It  happened slowly over a few decades,and NOBODY is going to be able to reverse the course in a mere 4 years.

I doubt it can be done even if you were to add another 8 years of some "unknown/unnamed at this time " future conservative president. IF it happens at all,the changes will be so modest at first that it will take years for them to begin to have a real effect. We are going to HAVE to accept the FACT that we are not going to get what we want right away,REGARDLESS of who is elected.

I WOULD like to see at least SOME effort made to do that,and for the discussion about it to continue,though.

@sneakypete

I think you are dead-on with the bolded language.  But the conclusion I draw is a bit different from yours.  If we agree that this is a multi-term problem that cannot be fixed by one guy, then it seems to me a candidate whose focus is "Me against Everyone Else" is the exact opposite of the kind of multi-term movement we're trying to foster.  Especially when that guy only has one term left in him anyway.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@sneakypete

I will back DeSantis, as I have said before, but that is beside the point.

*NO* single man is going to do shit. This hero bullshit has just naturally got to stop. What it takes is a united Right, all going in the same direction. THAT is the ONLY thing that is ever effective. The spear point of that is elected officials - Congress AND Administration functioning together to move in that single direction.

And your messiah has already proven he can't do that. Equally important, this slavish hero worship distracts from the real need to build agreement in the congress and the senate. Instead, divisiveness reigns.

So stop it. Your way produces nothing. Predictably, another super-expensive administration that we dare not afford, producing a temporary relief at best, while governing only by EO - A flatulent mist that vanishes long before the morning... And the entire Right in even more disarray.

You absolutely nailed it.

You can't build a movement with staying power around a guy who so viciously attacks anyone he believes doesn't show him proper deference.  And if you build that guy up to be a one of a kind savior, then you're conceding at the outset that nobody can really take over for him when he's gone.  Because after all, he's unique!

Offline roamer_1

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The point that really bears repeating here is that much of the credit given to Trump for his accomplishments went to things that were too easily reversed, and that is largely due to Trump's own habit of alienating anyone who isn't 100% loyal to him.


I have been arguing that very thing, to much criticism, all the way along - And that within a grander scheme, in that Republicans have been trained to be satisfied with nothing.

Executive orders ARE nothing... A temporary reprieve at best, and should not go to any great credit.

I think that folks who keen and pine for more Tump are ignorant of how it all works. They are the very same ones who whooped and strutted for every one of those EOs, and the same who gnashed their teeth when Bidet overturned the whole works in a week.

The very example of being satisfied by candy thrown by the clown at the front of the parade.

Folks have got to become a whole lot wiser, and less easy to satisfy.

Offline roamer_1

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@sneakypete

I think you are dead-on with the bolded language.  But the conclusion I draw is a bit different from yours.  If we agree that this is a multi-term problem that cannot be fixed by one guy, then it seems to me a candidate whose focus is "Me against Everyone Else" is the exact opposite of the kind of multi-term movement we're trying to foster.  Especially when that guy only has one term left in him anyway.

Populism's glaring error.

Conservatives have fought across multiple generations and from several movements. Because Conservatives stand on principles, not people.

Populism cannot do that.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I honestly get why so many people like Trump.  He did a fantastic job at calling out the disconnect between some GOP elites and the rest of the party, particularly on the issue of immigration where the leadership had been out of step with the rank and file for decades.

But while being willing to speak unpopular truths is fantastic, it is no indication that you have any of the skills or knowledge necessary to actually solve them.  That's where the disconnect is with Trump.  Great at identifying problems, lousy at solving them.