Author Topic: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.  (Read 3698 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2023, 09:09:14 pm »
And it could start a very bad precedent.

We have seen how governments will abuse its power under the guise of a crisis

FACTS.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2023, 09:13:52 pm »
If we would just follow the constitution all this stuff would sort itself out in short order.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2023, 09:42:05 pm »
You can explain this all day to the MAGAs and they don't care.

To be fair, I don't think the MAGA movement is, or has ever been, Reagan-esque small-government conservatism.  That's just not their lane.  It is much more right-wing populism.  So when we make arguments about the size and scope of government, or about federalism...you're right.  They don't care about either.

That's basically the fault line within the GOP.  And if/when it gets to the point where we disagree on more than we agree, that's where it breaks.   For some of us, it obviously already has.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2023, 09:51:51 pm »
To be fair, I don't think the MAGA movement is, or has ever been, Reagan-esque small-government conservatism.  That's just not their lane.  It is much more right-wing populism.  So when we make arguments about the size and scope of government, or about federalism...you're right.  They don't care about either.

That's basically the fault line within the GOP.  And if/when it gets to the point where we disagree on more than we agree, that's where it breaks.   For some of us, it obviously already has.

MAGAs and Trump are similar to Elizabeth Warren and her supporters. Elizabeth Warren, just like Trump, has all kinds of “plans.”  Her supporters, similar to Trump’s supporters, cheer on her plans without thinking whether or not she has the authority to carry them out or without any thought of how they would work in the real world.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2023, 09:55:19 pm »
If we would just follow the constitution all this stuff would sort itself out in short order.

Well...sometimes some things don't get sorted out.   Our system gives us citizens the right to determine the fate of the country, which includes the right to screw things up.  If the people of those cities are stupid enough to keep making decisions that destroy their cities, that's what is going to happen.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2023, 09:57:50 pm »
Well...sometimes some things don't get sorted out.   Our system gives us citizens the right to determine the fate of the country, which includes the right to screw things up.  If the people of those cities are stupid enough to keep making decisions that destroy their cities, that's what is going to happen.

Yes! And the people can, and will, vote with their feet as many places are discovering as we speak.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 09:59:38 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2023, 01:16:37 am »
Yes! And the people can, and will, vote with their feet as many places are discovering as we speak.

Exactly.

Sadly, there are inevitably some decent folks left behind who lack the money and means toove to someplace better, and they're screwed.   But it's also true that the vast majority of them will have voted for most.of those who ruined their city.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2023, 12:00:06 pm »
I recall a debate I was having with someone over the pitfalls of ObamaCare. Their only reply to me was “well, at least Obama is trying to do something about it.”

MAGAs have a similar mindset.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2023, 12:12:28 pm »
To be fair, I don't think the MAGA movement is, or has ever been, Reagan-esque small-government conservatism.  That's just not their lane.  It is much more right-wing populism. 

Well look at how they are going after DeSantis over his attempts to reduce spending while in Congress

MAGAs believe that debt and deficits don’t matter. They believe we can spend and print as much as we want with no ill effects as long as it’s being spent on America and American’s.

Trump can make what’s going on in these cities an issue. But his options to actively do anything about it is extremely limited
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 02:34:40 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2023, 01:00:39 pm »
I recall a debate I was having with someone over the pitfalls of ObamaCare. Their only reply to me was “well, at least Obama is trying to do something about it.”
MAGAs have a similar mindset.

Exactly.  The beautiful thing about the "at least he's doing something" defense is that you don't even have to argue that what you're proposing will work, or even that it will do less good than harrm.  Because you're doing "something."

The essence of small-government conservatism is that most problems are best solved by letting the market "do" whatever needs "doing".  In the case of cities, the core problems are 1) not enforcing the law, and 2) subsidizing destructive behavior.   Which means the solution is 1) start enforcing the law, and 2) quit subsidizing/supporting that behavior.

The problem will then begin to "solve itself" with minimal additional governmental action required.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 01:01:56 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2023, 02:06:56 pm »
To be fair, I don't think the MAGA movement is, or has ever been, Reagan-esque small-government conservatism.  That's just not their lane.  It is much more right-wing populism. 

That's right. But they sure tried to fit the mantle of Conservatism upon their pretender and force us all to bow. And they do it even now.

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2023, 02:13:04 pm »
One has to hand it to Trump: he has principles – and if people don’t like them, he has others.
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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2023, 02:13:34 pm »
5 threads and couple hundred posts later, not one Trump supporter here has justified in terms of the fiscal aspects what this nut job idea by Trump for Freedom Cities and Jetson Cars will do to the long term economc health of the country.

Is anyone surprised by that level of blind loyalty and complicity?
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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2023, 02:22:00 pm »
That's right. But they sure tried to fit the mantle of Conservatism upon their pretender and force us all to bow. And they do it even now.

They seem to be "conservative" In terms of the goals they are trying to achieve, but they are in favor of big government as the means of trying to achieve them.  And that's the part that is inherently anti-conservative.

That really illustrates the danger inherent in the "man on horseback" approach to politics. Because people have so much faith in a particular individual, they are willing to throw out principles and processes that are normally in place to limit the power of the government. They are okay that because they trust that particular person to wield those powers properly. 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2023, 02:32:31 pm »
To be fair, I don't think the MAGA movement is, or has ever been, Reagan-esque small-government conservatism. 

How did Reagan reduce government?

Offline GtHawk

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2023, 04:41:38 pm »
How did Reagan reduce government?
How did Trump? He's the one asking for the job, and every time, every damn time an outrageous budget was put in front of him never took a stand and vetoed it making the dems own it. Every damn time Trumps said yeah this is fine and signed it. Why on Earth would anyone expect anything but more insane spending with ideas like Freedom Cities or socialist welfare camps to put the homeless and mentally ill in. Of course you will deflect from Trump and say well what is your solution, I'll tell you what it won't include... a big heaping pile of government funded socialism.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2023, 04:46:50 pm »
How did Trump? He's the one asking for the job, and every time, every damn time an outrageous budget was put in front of him never took a stand and vetoed it making the dems own it. Every damn time Trumps said yeah this is fine and signed it. Why on Earth would anyone expect anything but more insane spending with ideas like Freedom Cities or socialist welfare camps to put the homeless and mentally ill in. Of course you will deflect from Trump and say well what is your solution, I'll tell you what it won't include... a big heaping pile of government funded socialism.

Trump won’t have the luxury of low interest rates if, by some miracle, he’s reelected president. That may or may not put restraint on his spending desires.

But then again, he did boast at one time he was the “king of debt” wink777
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2023, 04:50:11 pm »
How did Trump? He's the one asking for the job, and every time, every damn time an outrageous budget was put in front of him never took a stand and vetoed it making the dems own it. Every damn time Trumps said yeah this is fine and signed it. Why on Earth would anyone expect anything but more insane spending with ideas like Freedom Cities or socialist welfare camps to put the homeless and mentally ill in. Of course you will deflect from Trump and say well what is your solution, I'll tell you what it won't include... a big heaping pile of government funded socialism.

Yep, back in the day, government, and industry (us) for that matter, operated on the concept of Zero based budgeting.

In a new year or fiscal year in the case of Fedzilla, we assumed zero increases, unless there was tangible proof of the addtional need for expenditure. If it wasn't justified .....   you didn't get it, and costs remained controlled a, constatnt or at least below CPI guidelines. That has all changed into fiscal insanity.
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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2023, 05:16:30 pm »
How did Reagan reduce government?

I recall Reagan reducing the number of FAA employees by 11,000 or so.  Contrast that with Trump who wouldn't fire one NIH hack.
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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2023, 06:19:39 pm »
I recall Reagan reducing the number of FAA employees by 11,000 or so.  Contrast that with Trump who wouldn't fire one NIH hack.

Reagan did a lot.  In trying to discredit Reagan's reputation for shrinking government, leftists and their fellow big government supporting Trumpist buddies point to total federal spending under him, but conspicuously ignore how that money was spent.   National defense is something most of us would recognize is a proper role of government, and Reagan did increase that when he came into office.

What he did cut was discretionary domestic spending, and also some entitlements:

Quote
In 1981, the president signed into law significant cuts in government spending and tax rates. Reagan’s “historic” turnaround cut the projected spending of the federal government by 4.7 percent for the next fiscal year. Taking inflation into account, the Reagan cuts amounted to 5 percent of the total cost of government. Overall, discretionary domestic spending dropped about 14.2 percent during Reagan’s first year. Several Great Society programs were sharply cut. The Community Development Block Grant program, for example, lost two‐​thirds of its funding. Reagan also won a 32 percent cut in mass transit spending.

Sen. Pete V. Domenici was correct to call the 1981 budget “the most dramatic reduction in the ongoing programs in the history of the country” — but mostly because federal spending had risen relentlessly for three decades both absolutely and relative to the nation’s wealth. Had that trend continued, the federal government would have grown relative to national income by about 25 percent (from one‐​fifth of GDP to one‐​fourth).

https://www.cato.org/policy-report/march/april-2010/limiting-government-1980-2010

What's remarkable about that was that Reagan managed to cut that spending despite Democrats holding a 243-192 advantage under Tip O'Neill in the House of Representatives.  In fact, Reagan never had a GOP House with which to work.  If he'd have had a GOP Congress, he obviously could have cut even more.  The increase in defense spending eventually paid off big-time by eventually leading to the collapse of the Soviet Union and resultant "peace dividend" that enabled significant cuts in our military spending.

In contrast, Trump keeps talking like a big-government liberal about the federal government needing to make more "investments" -- which has always been the code word for "more federal discretionary spending".  We got the whole Freedom cities proposal, and now this plan to permanently feed and house homeless at federal government expense. 


« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 06:20:36 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2023, 06:41:30 pm »
The question is how is he going to pay for all of this? Which States is he going to implement his homelessness plan?  So will the States have additional taxes?

His Freedom Cities, same thing.

He's talking about racking up debt before he even takes office.
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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2023, 06:47:36 pm »
Trump sure has come out with alot of old ratty 20th century collectivist, FDR/LBJ ideas as of late.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2023, 07:05:27 pm »
Trump sure has come out with alot of old ratty 20th century collectivist, FDR/LBJ ideas as of late.

Your association of Trump to LBJ is troubling; LBJ was one of the worst presidents for this country.  I can see the correlation.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2023, 07:07:45 pm »
Your association of Trump to LBJ is troubling; LBJ was one of the worst presidents for this country.  I can see the correlation.

Pedo Joe makes LBJ look like a Piker.
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Offline MeshugeMikey

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Re: Trump Announces Plan to End Homelessness. The Left Will Hate It.
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2023, 07:12:45 pm »
He does not have this authority.

hus hyopcritical opportunistic BS just  FRIES MY ASS!!

he doesnt like ware heroes WHO GET CAPTURED...

he LOVED his DADS RENTAL BUSINESS....as ciorrupt at it was.


hes pitiful,,a child....and should be  addressed as such