Author Topic: Ohio train derailment: Operators warned of overheated axle moments before wreck: NTSB  (Read 479 times)

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Offline Fishrrman

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https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-train-derailment-operators-warned-overheated-axle-moments-before-wreck-ntsb

Ohio train derailment: Operators warned of overheated axle moments before wreck: NTSB

2.23.23
by Greg Norman

Excerpts:
The operators of the Norfolk Southern train involved in a toxic derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, earlier this month received a "critical audible alarm message instructing the crew to slow and stop the train to inspect a hot axle," according to a newly released National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) report Thursday.
...
The report said after hearing a warning from the hot bearing detector on Train 32N, the train’s engineer, who Homendy said already was braking due to a train ahead, "increased the dynamic brake application to further slow and stop the train."
...
"Train 32N passed three HBD systems on its trip before the derailment," adding that at the third system, it recorded "the suspect bearing's temperature at 253°F above ambient."

"After the train stopped, the crew observed fire and smoke and notified the Cleveland East dispatcher of a possible derailment. With dispatcher authorization, the crew applied handbrakes to the two railcars at the head of the train, uncoupled the head-end locomotives, and moved the locomotives about 1 mile from the uncoupled railcars," the NTSB wrote. "Responders arrived at the derailment site and began response efforts."
...
While the train's crew was decelerating after hearing the hot bearing detector warning, the train derailed while traveling at 47 mph and "an automatic emergency brake application initiated," causing the locomotive to come to a stop, NTSB investigators said.
...
"NTSB investigators identified and examined the first railcar to derail, the 23rd railcar," the report also said. "Surveillance video from a local residence showed what appeared to be a wheel bearing in the final stage of overheat failure moments before the derailment. The wheel bearing and affected wheelset have been collected as evidence and will be examined by the NTSB."

More at URL above...

Poster's comments:
Pay attention to the "moments before" in the headline.
The engineer already was slowing (due to train ahead) and really couldn't have done anything more at the time of the derailment.

Offline Kamaji

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Is it normal for a bearing to go from undetectable overheating to failure heating in such a short period of time?

Offline LilLamb

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I’ve seen a lot of Dems blaming the accident on Trump because of deregulation on ECP breaks. This train wouldn’t have been required to have ECP breaks anyway.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-train-derailment-ntsb-chair-issues-plea-spreading/story?id=97281671
"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat."  Ronald Reagan

Offline Fishrrman

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"Is it normal for a bearing to go from undetectable overheating to failure heating in such a short period of time?"

Here's an older-style truck, no longer used in regular freight:

That could be a car inspector, checking to see if there's any overheating in the journal box, which has a "lid" that can be lifted up.

So.. lift it up:

Here's an image of an old-style "friction" bearing, no longer used in freight service:

You can see "the brass" -- the crescent-shaped casting supporting the axle end.
You can see "the waste" -- the cloth-like material beneath the axle.
And beneath that, there is oil in the bottom of the journal box which "wicks upward" and thus lubricates the axle (and bearing above it).

If the journal got too hot (brass wearing out, not enough oil inside, other failure), you'd get a "hot box", looked like this:

That might take a while to develop.
Also keep in mind that cars were considerably lighter back then, less weight on each bearing.

Here's what a modern roller bearing looks like:


Exploded view revealing the innards:


In place on the car:

The modern bearing can support a heavier load, greater speeds, and will last longer with no real "maintenance" required.

BUT...
As you look at the bearing, mounted on the car, how does one tell what's going on INSIDE?

There's really no way to inspect it -- not like the old style, where you could lift the lid, check the brass, waste and oil inside.

I can remember the rule that if a bearing screw cap (there are three) was missing, that's a "defect". But there's not too much else (I wasn't a car inspector).

With the modern bearing, it's "just there".
Working.
Until... it fails.

An analogy:
Think of old computer platter-based "hard drives" vs. modern SSDs.

The old HDDs were slow, but as they aged and got close to failure, they'd often go through a "warning period". The drive would be noisier, perhaps it would get slower due to bad sectors -- but [for a time] it would probably still work. You might notice in time to be able to get your data from it before a complete failure.

But modern SSDs... they'll just fail without any warning. POOF... and they're gone. I've had two just "disappear" on me. Just like that.

The old friction bearing was like the old hard drive... it might give sufficient warning of imminent failure (also remember that cars probably didn't travel in a given train as far as some do now).

The roller bearing is more like the SSD... it works great.
Until... it doesn't.

I'm told that when they begin to fail, they can progress to "full" failure very quickly. Probably within 10 miles, if the car is loaded and speed is "up there".

In the East Palestine wreck, the article notes that there had been a previous alert of a bearing reading up around 250 degrees or so "above ambient" (we aren't told what "ambient" means). On the hot side, but not "hot enough" to melt metal. The article doesn't say if the crew sought authorization to keep going, was ordered to keep going, or even whether any action was needed with a reading at that temp level.

I predict that one of the recommendations to come out of this wreck will be that a crew will stop and inspect ANY "above normal" reading on a bearing in a train that's carrying hazardous materials. Even just a few degrees above "the threshold".

Offline Kamaji

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"Is it normal for a bearing to go from undetectable overheating to failure heating in such a short period of time?"

Here's an older-style truck, no longer used in regular freight:

That could be a car inspector, checking to see if there's any overheating in the journal box, which has a "lid" that can be lifted up.

So.. lift it up:

Here's an image of an old-style "friction" bearing, no longer used in freight service:

You can see "the brass" -- the crescent-shaped casting supporting the axle end.
You can see "the waste" -- the cloth-like material beneath the axle.
And beneath that, there is oil in the bottom of the journal box which "wicks upward" and thus lubricates the axle (and bearing above it).

If the journal got too hot (brass wearing out, not enough oil inside, other failure), you'd get a "hot box", looked like this:

That might take a while to develop.
Also keep in mind that cars were considerably lighter back then, less weight on each bearing.

Here's what a modern roller bearing looks like:


Exploded view revealing the innards:


In place on the car:

The modern bearing can support a heavier load, greater speeds, and will last longer with no real "maintenance" required.

BUT...
As you look at the bearing, mounted on the car, how does one tell what's going on INSIDE?

There's really no way to inspect it -- not like the old style, where you could lift the lid, check the brass, waste and oil inside.

I can remember the rule that if a bearing screw cap (there are three) was missing, that's a "defect". But there's not too much else (I wasn't a car inspector).

With the modern bearing, it's "just there".
Working.
Until... it fails.

An analogy:
Think of old computer platter-based "hard drives" vs. modern SSDs.

The old HDDs were slow, but as they aged and got close to failure, they'd often go through a "warning period". The drive would be noisier, perhaps it would get slower due to bad sectors -- but [for a time] it would probably still work. You might notice in time to be able to get your data from it before a complete failure.

But modern SSDs... they'll just fail without any warning. POOF... and they're gone. I've had two just "disappear" on me. Just like that.

The old friction bearing was like the old hard drive... it might give sufficient warning of imminent failure (also remember that cars probably didn't travel in a given train as far as some do now).

The roller bearing is more like the SSD... it works great.
Until... it doesn't.

I'm told that when they begin to fail, they can progress to "full" failure very quickly. Probably within 10 miles, if the car is loaded and speed is "up there".

In the East Palestine wreck, the article notes that there had been a previous alert of a bearing reading up around 250 degrees or so "above ambient" (we aren't told what "ambient" means). On the hot side, but not "hot enough" to melt metal. The article doesn't say if the crew sought authorization to keep going, was ordered to keep going, or even whether any action was needed with a reading at that temp level.

I predict that one of the recommendations to come out of this wreck will be that a crew will stop and inspect ANY "above normal" reading on a bearing in a train that's carrying hazardous materials. Even just a few degrees above "the threshold".


@Fishrrman

Thanks for the explanation!

Offline jafo2010

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Sec Buttboy is a sad sack on his best day.  He did not look like a leader of anything in E. Palestine.  He actually looked lost.  Such a pathetic creature.  And this numbnut blaming Trump is just sad.  I suppose if dead from the neck up Biden gets elected to a 2nd term, in their 7th and 8th years they will still be blaming Trump for all that is wrong.

Offline goatprairie

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Sec Buttboy is a sad sack on his best day.  He did not look like a leader of anything in E. Palestine.  He actually looked lost.  Such a pathetic creature.  And this numbnut blaming Trump is just sad.  I suppose if dead from the neck up Biden gets elected to a 2nd term, in their 7th and 8th years they will still be blaming Trump for all that is wrong.
It’s  been more than two years since the Sniffer and the…uh….Mayor of Mudville have been in office. Why didn’t they do something about all the unsafe deregulating of railroad and other safety procedures supposedly Trump enacted?
No fan of Trump, but the way things are going next they’ll blame the heartbreak of psoriasis on Trump.