Putin Suspends U.S. Nuclear Treaty, Tells Russians West ‘Wants to Finish Us Forever’

[GrouchoTex]

@Kamaji

ALL political leaders are liars.

Putin adds a taste of "bat shit crazy" to the mixture.

This is true.
Putin's crazy, and a dictator, to boot.
Zelensky is more like a member-of congress corrupt.
Don't think I'll loan any of 'em money or let 'em date a daughter of mine.

[sneakypete]

Russia could go back to being Russia if it would just leave Ukraine and stop threatening its neighbors in its pursuit of Soviet Union v2.

@DB

Well,yes,and no. Communism is a failure as an economic system unless they get cash in from free nations.

It "sorta" worked in Russia like it has worked in China,as a police state where the government sets the wages,tells people where they have to live and work,and controls the prices.

That stopped working when Yeltsin because President,and in that brief period of time,the typical Russian found out the truth about how they were nothing but serfs being used by their political masters so the political masters could live line billionaires.

They only reason Russia is still standing is because no Russian alive today has any experience actually  living free,and the system is a police state that punishes people who stand up and ask questions with either an execution,or life sentences in remote labor camps.

The only reason Putin is still alive today and in charge is because nobody else wants to be holding his position when that particular "house of cards" collapses.

[DB]

@DB

Well,yes,and no. Communism is a failure as an economic system unless they get cash in from free nations.

It "sorta" worked in Russia like it has worked in China,as a police state where the government sets the wages,tells people where they have to live and work,and controls the prices.

That stopped working when Yeltsin because President,and in that brief period of time,the typical Russian found out the truth about how they were nothing but serfs being used by their political masters so the political masters could live line billionaires.

They only reason Russia is still standing is because no Russian alive today has any experience actually  living free,and the system is a police state that punishes people who stand up and ask questions with either an execution,or life sentences in remote labor camps.

The only reason Putin is still alive today and in charge is because nobody else wants to be holding his position when that particular "house of cards" collapses.

They have natural resources that allows those in charge of them to live like kings and keep everyone else out.

[sneakypete]

They have natural resources that allows those in charge of them to live like kings and keep everyone else out.

@DB

ONLY because greedy capitalists in the west are willing to buy it so THEY can  profit from the sales.

If the west  had banded together and refused to buy Russia's natural resources for their own  profits,Communism  would have died off decades ago.

Communism is nothing more than globalism on a small scale.

[jafo2010]

Putin is stoking the fire with his the west wants to destroy us.  That nonsense rhetoric keeps the Russian people in line, for in the end, they are as patriotic as we are.  They believe in their country, and believe it to be the NUMBER ONE nation in the world, because the PUTIN MACHINE says so.

They are utterly clueless to the fact they are NOT FREE.  No idea what freedom really is.  Russians are sort of like Red in The Shawshank Redemption.  Red after spending most of his life behind bars had no idea how to live free, when given freedom, he had no idea how to be free, and in his hopelessness, he committed suicide.  Russians have no idea how to live free, for they haven't been free in 150+ years.  So they will go marching to their death in a war of their own making, but Putin tells them the west started the war in Ukraine.  Russian boys are going to die in mass quantities, Putin does not care, and the Russian people are told there are 1,000 Russian dead when there are over 180,000 Russian casualties so far.  No joke, they are totally clueless.

 

[sneakypete]

Putin is stoking the fire with his the west wants to destroy us.  That nonsense rhetoric keeps the Russian people in line, for in the end, they are as patriotic as we are.  They believe in their country, and believe it to be the NUMBER ONE nation in the world, because the PUTIN MACHINE says so.

They are utterly clueless to the fact they are NOT FREE.  No idea what freedom really is.  Russians are sort of like Red in The Shawshank Redemption.  Red after spending most of his life behind bars had no idea how to live free, when given freedom, he had no idea how to be free, and in his hopelessness, he committed suicide.  Russians have no idea how to live free, for they haven't been free in 150+ years.  So they will go marching to their death in a war of their own making, but Putin tells them the west started the war in Ukraine.  Russian boys are going to die in mass quantities, Putin does not care, and the Russian people are told there are 1,000 Russian dead when there are over 180,000 Russian casualties so far.  No joke, they are totally clueless.

 

@jafo2010

I couldn't disagree more. They may be slaves in a slave state,but they understand exactly what is going on.

They just can't do anything about it.

[jafo2010]

I disagree.  150 + years of slavery does not have anyone thinking for themselves, and certainly not out loud.  They do not have freedom of speech.  Ask Nevalny!  And ask every murdered journalist in the past 22 years in Russia.  Oh wait, you can't ask them, because their free thinking was extinguished!

Anyone that utters a word out of line with the prevailing Putin mindset is inviting a bullet.

I know Russians living in the USA that actually think Putin is brilliant.  They are not under his thumb, and yet they believe that murderous madman.  He is following in Hitler's shoes, following his playbook.  Where is the Russian Klaus von Staffenburg when you need him?

[DB]

I disagree.  150 + years of slavery does not have anyone thinking for themselves, and certainly not out loud.  They do not have freedom of speech.  Ask Nevalny!  And ask every murdered journalist in the past 22 years in Russia.  Oh wait, you can't ask them, because their free thinking was extinguished!

Anyone that utters a word out of line with the prevailing Putin mindset is inviting a bullet.

I know Russians living in the USA that actually think Putin is brilliant.  They are not under his thumb, and yet they believe that murderous madman.  He is following in Hitler's shoes, following his playbook.  Where is the Russian Klaus von Staffenburg when you need him?

I know conservatives that think Putin is brilliant and the protector of his people - as he gets them killed by the thousands.

[sneakypete]

I know conservatives that think Putin is brilliant and the protector of his people - as he gets them killed by the thousands.

@DB

Those people are fascists,not conservatives.

[jafo2010]

Anyone that doesn't recognize that from DAY ONE that Putin as the leader of Russia, that he was nothing more than a murderous thug, KGB thug, just is not paying attention.

He has ZERO reverence for life.

Evidence:

Men trapped on the submarine Kursk.  A number were alive and the USA and Britain both offered to use a small sub to go down and rescue them, and Putin said to stand back.  He let those men die.

Beslan - remember the school that was seized by a handful of Chechen terrorists, and when Russians attempted to seize the school, about 130 hostages died.  The Russians killed all but one of the terrorists.

The seizure of the Moscow Dubrovka Theater by Chechen terrorists and when the Russians took it back, 170 hostages died, most because of the gas Putin had pumped into the theater.

And now the war in Ukraine.  He tells his people they are rescuing Russian heritage folks from Nazis that are part of the Ukrainian military, a group called the Azov group.  Are there Nazis in Ukraine?  Yes, there are, but no more than are in Russia or the USA.  Fact is, about 1.5 million of the Russian heritage folks have escaped to Russia.  What Putin is doing is waging a war to seize the eastern half if not all of Ukraine, I believe for control of the mineral wealth.  He is violating international treaty, so where is the effort in the UN to stop this?  There is no effort.

This war stinks, and it could easily progress to WWIII!!!!

A friend who worked in Ukraine for 7 years has many friends in Ukraine, and he is told there are 180,000 Russian casualties in this war to date.  Russia is amassing a huge offensive for this coming year, and the young men of Russian will be fed into the meat grinder for NOTHING!  Putin continues to kill Russian youth in huge quantities.  He just does not care about life, any life.

[massadvj]

Anyone that doesn't recognize that from DAY ONE that Putin as the leader of Russia, that he was nothing more than a murderous thug, KGB thug, just is not paying attention.

He has ZERO reverence for life.

Evidence:

Men trapped on the submarine Kursk.  A number were alive and the USA and Britain both offered to use a small sub to go down and rescue them, and Putin said to stand back.  He let those men die.

Beslan - remember the school that was seized by a handful of Chechen terrorists, and when Russians attempted to seize the school, about 130 hostages died.  The Russians killed all but one of the terrorists.

The seizure of the Moscow Dubrovka Theater by Chechen terrorists and when the Russians took it back, 170 hostages died, most because of the gas Putin had pumped into the theater.

And now the war in Ukraine.  He tells his people they are rescuing Russian heritage folks from Nazis that are part of the Ukrainian military, a group called the Azov group.  Are there Nazis in Ukraine?  Yes, there are, but no more than are in Russia or the USA.  Fact is, about 1.5 million of the Russian heritage folks have escaped to Russia.  What Putin is doing is waging a war to seize the eastern half if not all of Ukraine, I believe for control of the mineral wealth.  He is violating international treaty, so where is the effort in the UN to stop this?  There is no effort.

This war stinks, and it could easily progress to WWIII!!!!

A friend who worked in Ukraine for 7 years has many friends in Ukraine, and he is told there are 180,000 Russian casualties in this war to date.  Russia is amassing a huge offensive for this coming year, and the young men of Russian will be fed into the meat grinder for NOTHING!  Putin continues to kill Russian youth in huge quantities.  He just does not care about life, any life.

OK, I concede all of this about Putin. How is the invasion of Ukraine an existential threat to the USA? It is an existential threat to Eastern Europe, and maybe to the EU. So why is our financial support for Zelenski so out of proportion to that of the vast majority of European states?  And is the EU in any way grateful for this support, to the extent that trade barriers between the EU and USA have been lifted?  The answer is no. We are getting screwed by Europe, just as we always have. In fact, I daresay Biden is being a sucker for Europe in the present moment.

This is Europe's fight. We can support them as allies. Biden has made this OUR fight, with a little help from those European states willing to contribute. It will end very, very badly because the Europeans are not really invested in it the way we are. Also, there is no diplomatic justification for our involvement since Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

Where is Biden's war plan? He says he will stay "for as long as it takes.." but refuses to tell us what the objective of the war actually is, what a peace settlement will look like, and what he expects to happen when Zelenski eventually runs out of troops (Ukraine is outnumbered 3 to 1).

There are many evil men in the world, Being evil, in and of itself, is not a justification for our our declaring war against someone.

[DB]

Simple, not allowing another Soviet Union v2. NATO isn't exactly cheap and its entire purpose is to contain Russian aggression for the last 70+ years. This is a chance to bring all that to an end once and for all.

[Kamaji]

Simple, not allowing another Soviet Union v2. NATO isn't exactly cheap and its entire purpose is to contain Russian aggression for the last 70+ years. This is a chance to bring all that to an end once and for all.

[Kamaji]

OK, I concede all of this about Putin. How is the invasion of Ukraine an existential threat to the USA? It is an existential threat to Eastern Europe, and maybe to the EU. So why is our financial support for Zelenski so out of proportion to that of the vast majority of European states?  And is the EU in any way grateful for this support, to the extent that trade barriers between the EU and USA have been lifted?  The answer is no. We are getting screwed by Europe, just as we always have. In fact, I daresay Biden is being a sucker for Europe in the present moment.

This is Europe's fight. We can support them as allies. Biden has made this OUR fight, with a little help from those European states willing to contribute. It will end very, very badly because the Europeans are not really invested in it the way we are. Also, there is no diplomatic justification for our involvement since Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

Where is Biden's war plan? He says he will stay "for as long as it takes.." but refuses to tell us what the objective of the war actually is, what a peace settlement will look like, and what he expects to happen when Zelenski eventually runs out of troops (Ukraine is outnumbered 3 to 1).

There are many evil men in the world, Being evil, in and of itself, is not a justification for our our declaring war against someone.

Very simple:  if we sit idly by and let Putin swallow the rest of Europe - which would include turning our backs on our solemn treaty obligations to the other NATO members - and - by the same rationale - sit idly by while China swallows Taiwan and other significant nations in the East - do you really think the Russo-Sino axis is going to leave things at that, and then convert into honorable free-market trading partners with whom we can continue to do business?  Or will they use their control over most of the world's economies to drown the U.S., and then partition the Americas.

D'ya think they'd divvy up North America the same way the Nazis and the Japanese were planning to divvy us up?  With China getting the western half and Russia the eastern half?

[massadvj]

Very simple:  if we sit idly by and let Putin swallow the rest of Europe - which would include turning our backs on our solemn treaty obligations to the other NATO members - and - by the same rationale - sit idly by while China swallows Taiwan and other significant nations in the East - do you really think the Russo-Sino axis is going to leave things at that, and then convert into honorable free-market trading partners with whom we can continue to do business?  Or will they use their control over most of the world's economies to drown the U.S., and then partition the Americas.

D'ya think they'd divvy up North America the same way the Nazis and the Japanese were planning to divvy us up?  With China getting the western half and Russia the eastern half?

Do you think Joe Biden and his woke, corrupt and weaponized intelligence and military apparatus are really capable of preventing this? Do you think they are "better" than the Chinese or Russians because they stand for "freedom?" We have an establishment that willfully and intentionally influenced the last election in order to oust the Commander in Chief. Why? Trump stood in the way of global tyranny.  That means we are no more a democracy than the Chinese or Russians, and lack the moral authority to engage in war against "evil." We have seen evil, and it is us.

I say this not as a Trump supporter, but as someone who can see the clear evidence that has been put before us.

The USA needs to be dismantled and re-established based on constitutional principles. These wars are being waged by the globalist elites in order to prevent that from happening.

[Kamaji]

Do you think Joe Biden and his woke, corrupt and weaponized intelligence and military apparatus are really capable of preventing this? Do you think they are "better" than the Chinese or Russians because they stand for "freedom?" We have an establishment that willfully and intentionally influenced the last election in order to oust the Commander in Chief. Why? Trump stood in the way of global tyranny.  That means we are no more a democracy than the Chinese or Russians, and lack the moral authority to engage in war against "evil." We have seen evil, and it is us.

I say this not as a Trump supporter, but as someone who can see the clear evidence that has been put before us.

The USA needs to be dismantled and re-established based on constitutional principles. These wars are being waged by the globalist elites in order to prevent that from happening.

Ahh, so, you appear to be taking the position that the U.S. is the moral equivalent of Russia and China, but only because Biden is in office?

That's a very strange concept.

Also, I find it passing strange that you are now in the "Burn it Down" camp as far as the U.S. is concerned?  Why are you politically involved then?  Why waste time on this forum, rather than in some hidden bush camp training for armed revolution?  Or are you simply hoping that someone else will do the dying for you, while you sit in your comfortable sinecure, waiting to be asked to join as a founder of the Constitution 2.0?

[catfish1957]

Ahh, so, you appear to be taking the position that the U.S. is the moral equivalent of Russia and China, but only because Biden is in office?

That's a very strange concept.

Not strange.  Biden, Russia and China are moral equivalancies.  In fact, I'd go on record that though he may not have the violent tendencies in governance , I'd wager Biden's accumen around corruption makes Xi and Vlad look like pikers.

[massadvj]

Ahh, so, you appear to be taking the position that the U.S. is the moral equivalent of Russia and China, but only because Biden is in office?

That's a very strange concept.

Also, I find it passing strange that you are now in the "Burn it Down" camp as far as the U.S. is concerned?  Why are you politically involved then?  Why waste time on this forum, rather than in some hidden bush camp training for armed revolution?  Or are you simply hoping that someone else will do the dying for you, while you sit in your comfortable sinecure, waiting to be asked to join as a founder of the Constitution 2.0?

Not just Biden. The globalist establishment was able to oust Trump by intentionally manipulating the last election, even though Trump was technically the boss. Obviously, there are many more players than Biden, and they are more powerful than Biden or any president.

I still hold out hope that change can come about democratically. I believe that a majority of people in this country want freedom, and understand this country is supposed to be a loose confederation of relatively autonomous states with free trade between them, guaranteed individual rights, and a common defense.

We are not supposed to be a cog in a global government that imposes global government, global taxation, global regulation, global wokeness, etc.  Ukraine is all about that, which Biden and his GOPe enablers fully understand.

 

[Kamaji]

Not just Biden. The globalist establishment was able to oust Trump by intentionally manipulating the last election, even though Trump was technically the boss. Obviously, there are many more players than Biden, and they are more powerful than Biden or any president.

I still hold out hope that change can come about democratically. I believe that a majority of people in this country want freedom, and understand this country is supposed to be a loose confederation of relatively autonomous states with free trade between them, guaranteed individual rights, and a common defense.

We are not supposed to be a cog in a global government that imposes global government, global taxation, global regulation, global wokeness, etc.  Ukraine is all about that, which Biden and his GOPe enablers fully understand.

 

If that's what makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knock yourself out.