Author Topic: Hazardous Ohio Train Derailment Live | A Horrific Environmental Disaster Is Happening In Ohio  (Read 5080 times)

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Offline Polly Ticks

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Now, for the good news (well, sorta).

From: https://www.waterfilteradvisor.com/contaminants/vinyl-chloride/

Vinyl chloride has low solubility in water.
Quote
According to the EPA, the recommended method of removing vinyl chloride from the water source is with packed tower aeration. Other ways to remove the chemical contaminant from the water is through the use of Reverse Osmosis, granular activated carbon (GAC), and other distillation methods. With most water filter systems packed with granular activated carbon, you can remove vinyl chloride to below the EPA’s regulated water standards.

So out of curiosity since our water comes from the Ohio River, do we know if existing municipal water processing systems are already set up to handle this type of contamination?
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Offline mystery-ak

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Health Concerns Grow as More Toxic Chemicals Revealed on Derailed Ohio Train than First Made Public

Simon Kent 14 Feb 2023

The fiery derailment of a train carrying toxic chemicals along the Ohio-Pennsylvania line last week spewed more harmful pollutants into the air, surface soils and water table than originally reported, fresh data made available Monday suggests.

About 50 cars on a Norfolk Southern Railroad train derailed on Feb. 3 while traveling from Illinois to Pennsylvania through the small town of East Palestine, Ohio.

No one was injured in the derailment investigators said was caused by a broken axle, as Breitbart News reported.

More than 2,000 residents were evacuated due to health concerns over the chemical leak but have since been allowed to return.

State health officials were initially concerned about the presence of vinyl chloride, a highly volatile colorless gas produced for commercial uses which spilled in the accident.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/02/14/health-concerns-grow-as-more-toxic-chemicals-revealed-on-derailed-ohio-train-than-first-made-public/
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Buttigieg Breaks Silence 10 Days After Ohio Train Derailment


Alexa Schwerha
Contributor
February 14, 2023 8:59 AM ET


U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg broke his silence Monday night about a train derailment in eastern Ohio which occurred earlier this month.

A Norfolk Southern freight train derailed and caused a large fire on Feb. 3 in East Palestine, Ohio, and officials performed a “controlled vent and burn” to avoid a “catastrophic” explosion which released hazardous fumes into both the air and water. Buttigieg shared details of the derailment ten days after the original incident after being criticized online for failing to mention the derailment during a Monday National Association of Counties Conference panel.

“I continue to be concerned about the impacts of the Feb 3 train derailment near East Palestine, OH, and the effects on families in the ten days since their lives were upended through no fault of their own,” Buttigieg tweeted. “It’s important that families have access to useful & accurate information.”

more
https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/14/buttigieg-breaks-silence-ohio-train-derailment/
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Offline Kamaji

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Buttigieg Breaks Silence 10 Days After Ohio Train Derailment


Alexa Schwerha
Contributor
February 14, 2023 8:59 AM ET


U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg broke his silence Monday night about a train derailment in eastern Ohio which occurred earlier this month.

A Norfolk Southern freight train derailed and caused a large fire on Feb. 3 in East Palestine, Ohio, and officials performed a “controlled vent and burn” to avoid a “catastrophic” explosion which released hazardous fumes into both the air and water. Buttigieg shared details of the derailment ten days after the original incident after being criticized online for failing to mention the derailment during a Monday National Association of Counties Conference panel.

“I continue to be concerned about the impacts of the Feb 3 train derailment near East Palestine, OH, and the effects on families in the ten days since their lives were upended through no fault of their own,” Buttigieg tweeted. “It’s important that families have access to useful & accurate information.”

more
https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/14/buttigieg-breaks-silence-ohio-train-derailment/


Offline mountaineer

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I just went to Kroger and got some bottled water. No apparent panic buying yet, but that's probably because the local snooze media do not seem to have talked to the area water offices that draw from the Ohio River and asked exactly what the situation is (although I was accosted by a news babe outside the grocery store, who wanted my thoughts on camera about the opening of our new bridge. I declined to comment).
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Offline Kamaji

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I just went to Kroger and got some bottled water. No apparent panic buying yet, but that's probably because the local snooze media do not seem to have talked to the area water offices that draw from the Ohio River and asked exactly what the situation is (although I was accosted by a news babe outside the grocery store, who wanted my thoughts on camera about the opening of our new bridge. I declined to comment).

Probably a prudent thing to do.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Pete Buttigieg And Chernobyl in Ohio
Sam Faddis
15 hr ago

I guess if you are going to be the worst President in American history you want a Transportation Secretary that is equally bad.  Pete Buttigieg, the man who ran for President on a solid record of mediocrity and being gay, certainly fits that bill. Ask the people of East Palestine, Ohio.  ...

Buttigieg’s Department of Transportation decided to make it much worse. Authorities made the decision to burn the vinyl chloride to prevent derailed tanker cars from exploding.  When vinyl chloride burns it turns into hydrogen chloride. When hydrogen chloride enters the atmosphere it bonds with water vapor and forms hydrochloric acid. That means hundreds of thousands of pounds of acid have now been released into the environment.  ...

Where is Buttigieg, our Secretary of Transportation? Busy with other matters. In public announcements and comments recently, he has talked about the dangers posed by an excess of white people working in construction. He has also had time to talk about a book called “Song of Achilles” a gay rewrite of the Iliad. He hasn’t said a word about East Palestine, Ohio.

The area surrounding the burn is already feeling the impact of the release of the immense amount of acid in question. Fish are dying. Farm animals are dying. Contamination of the Ohio River has now been reported as far as West Virginia. The Ohio River feeds into the Mississippi.  ...
https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/pete-buttigieg-and-chernobyl-in-ohio?fbclid=IwAR0TKfD3QVdLPObmPKQowefhJVJNV7iC_NXqDF9rS-qK2vuemxkmcU3eC4Q

Wrong.

Try a 100 PPM exposure to HCl for a week. You might get a little itchy, maybe some slight congestion, and possible a little eye irritation.  Try 100 PPM in your shower water, and you likely won't notice, unless you have extremely sensitive skin. Stomach acid (also HCl) is a lot stronger.

But do that with vinyl chloride, and there is a solid chance you will develop liver cancer. The "safe" exposure limit for those who work around it is one part per million for 8 hours.

Considering allowing it to spill and possibly get into the soil/water table, even in small concentrations
I have posted the MSDS info for vinyl chloride. If it was going to spill, it would be in the groundwater for a long time, provided it did not just evaporate (boiling point is 7.6 degrees Fahrenheit). Burning it was likely considered the safer option if it (a pressurized, liquefied gas at warmer temperatures then 8 above) could not be safely transferred to other containers/vehicles to be transported away, something complicated by its volatility and wide explosive concentration range when mixed with air.

Considering the potential for disaster involving first responders and others (human lives), sometimes it is less hazardous in the long run to burn or allow the cargo to burn than put it out and try to recover it.

When I first got in the oilfield, the Penrod toolpusher had a flare gun, and told me in case he was unable to do so, that if we ever had a blowout in Hydrogen Sulfide Gas (H2S) to burn the rig, because 1000 PPM in air will kill you before you can exhale, and they didn't want to risk a cloud of that blowing around. I askedabout the guys on the rig, and he basically said if they aren't off there by the time it got that bad, they would already be dead.

Now, when H2S burns, it produces another toxic, acid gas: Sulfur Dioxide, which combines with moisture in the air to make sulfurous acid (H2SO3). That's nasty enough, but it won't kill you in mid stride like H2S.

Likely the choice to burn the cargo was similar.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Not to defend Butthead, who likely had nothing to do with the decisions made on the ground. but...

Try a 100 PPM exposure to HCl for a week. You might get a little itchy, maybe some slight congestion, and possible a little eye irritation.  Try 100 PPM in your shower water, and you likely won't notice, unless you have extremely sensitive skin. Stomach acid (also HCl) is a lot stronger.

But do that with vinyl chloride, and there is a solid chance you will develop liver cancer. The "safe" exposure limit for those who work around it is one part per million for 8 hours.

Considering allowing it to spill and possibly get into the soil/water table, even in small concentrations
I have posted the MSDS info for vinyl chloride. If it was going to spill, it would be in the groundwater for a long time, provided it did not just evaporate (boiling point is 7.6 degrees Fahrenheit). Burning it was likely considered the safer option if it (a pressurized, liquefied gas at warmer temperatures then 8 above) could not be safely transferred to other containers/vehicles to be transported away, something complicated by its volatility and wide explosive concentration range when mixed with air.

Considering the potential for disaster involving first responders and others (human lives), sometimes it is less hazardous in the long run to burn or allow the cargo to burn than put it out and try to recover it.

When I first got in the oilfield, the Penrod toolpusher had a flare gun, and told me in case he was unable to do so, that if we ever had a blowout in Hydrogen Sulfide Gas (H2S) to burn the rig, because 1000 PPM in air will kill you before you can exhale, and they didn't want to risk a cloud of that blowing around. I askedabout the guys on the rig, and he basically said if they aren't off there by the time it got that bad, they would already be dead.

Now, when H2S burns, it produces another toxic, acid gas: Sulfur Dioxide, which combines with moisture in the air to make sulfurous acid (H2SO3). That's nasty enough, but it won't kill you in mid stride like H2S.

Likely the choice to burn the cargo was similar.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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ICYMI....

"Tucker exposes SHOCKING train wreck in Ohio as MASSIVE toxic spill goes up in FLAMES, giant mushroom cloud seen from space " (Video)


https://mobile.twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1625553513576075267

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Offline Fishrrman

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As much as I disdain Buttplug, there's not really much for him to say about things. He has no real knowledge of rail operations (of that I'm certain), and there's nothing useful he COULD say.

Looks like an axle bearing went bad, and by the time a wayside "talking defect detector" caught the problem (and began transmitting that there was a defect), it was too late. Once that wheel and axle break, it's all over but the cleanup.

Back in the days when I worked freight, defect detectors (back then, they were mostly "hot box" detectors, but these days they do even more) were a good distance apart -- 30, 40 miles or more.

These days, they often have them closer together, I would reckon every 20-25 miles or so. But things can still go wrong "in between".

NTSB will [eventually] come out with a report, detailing what [they believe] went wrong. They may even make some recommendations.

In the meantime, it would be up to the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) to issue an "emergency order" if there was anything they thought ought to be implemented right away that might lessen the occurrence of such incidents in the future.

But actually, there's probably not much anyone can do. A train that long has A LOT of axles and axle bearings. Sometimes one will go bad without warning. Then bad things just happen...

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https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/15/us/newsnation-reporter-charges-dropped/index.html

Quote
The criminal charges filed against the NewsNation reporter who was arrested while reporting at a news conference in East Palestine have been dropped, Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost announced Wednesday.

Evan Lambert-McMichael was arrested after reporting live during a news conference last week held by Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine and other officials who were updating the train derailment in East Palestine, CNN previously reported.

Body camera footage shows officials approaching Lambert-McMichael and asking him to stop his reporting as it was too loud during the press conference. The footage also shows an argument break out and Ohio National Guard’s adjutant general, Maj. Gen. John Harris, approaching and pushing Lambert-McMichael.

Lambert-McMichael was charged with resisting arrest, a second-degree misdemeanor, and criminal trespass, a fourth-degree misdemeanor, according to Yost.

“While journalists could conceivably be subject to criminal charges for trespassing in some situations, this incident is not one of them,” Yost wrote in a statement. “The reporter was lawfully present at a press conference called by the Governor of the state. His conduct was consistent with the purpose of the event and his role as a reporter.”

(snip)

DeWine said Wednesday on “CNN This Morning” he has “never had a problem” during any of the news conferences he’s held during his tenure as governor.

“This reporter who was reporting live from the back of the room never should have been asked to stop, never should have been told to be quiet,” the Republican governor told CNN’s Don Lemon and Kaitlan Collins. “That was a big, big mistake. And you know, the person who did that, I’ve explained to them and I’m sure that he’ll never, never do that again.”

Harris got taken to the woodshed by DeWine.
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Offline mountaineer

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The governor was not aware of this kerfluffle.

 But the reporter should have understood that you don't do a live shot while the governor is holding a press conference a few feet away. He could have waited a while. I don't blame DeWine (no, I'm not his biggest fan) nor L.E., and I won't chalk this up to the big bad gubmint trying to stomp on the First Amendment. That simply is not what happened.
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'We made the decision': Gov DeWine admits he and Gov Josh Shapiro signed off on controlled burn in East Palestine
The Post Millennial, Feb 17, 2023

In a February 14 press conference, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine revealed that both he and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro signed off on the decision to conduct a "controlled release" of chemicals from the derailed Norfolk Southern train in East Palestine, Ohio.

"It was clear at that point that we were faced with two bad options," DeWine said of the hours and days immediately following the incident. DeWine later stated that "we then made the decision to go ahead with the second option which was to control release."

DeWine said that shortly after the derailment, when it became clear that an explosion could occur, he spoke with railroad representatives, bringing Shapiro into the conversation of the next steps and weighing the risks of leaving the train to explode, or setting the chemicals on fire.

However, the controlled release of the toxic chemicals also has the potential to be deadly following new modeling information conducted this morning and discussed at length between myself, Governor DeWine, and our respective teams," Shapiro added at the time, adding that he "strongly encouraged" an evacuation of the residents.

According to ABC News, following the setting of the fire, Shapiro said that the vent and burn operation went "as planned," and that "no concerning" air and water quality readings have been detected.

More:
https://thepostmillennial.com/we-made-the-decision-gov-dewine-admits-he-and-gov-josh-shapiro-signed-off-on-controlled-burn-in-east-palestine?utm_campaign=64483

Offline mountaineer

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They've said the train cars would have exploded on their own, shooting shrapnel as far as a mile way, had they not intervened. I don't know whether that is true, but DeWine has stated that repeatedly.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Why didn't they declare a disaster to get more Federal assistance to deal with this?

This is reminiscent of the Louisianna governor not requesting Federal assistance immediately after Katrina.
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Tucker calls for Gov DeWine and Josh Shapiro to resign after signing off on controlled burn
The Post Millennial, Feb 17, 2023

During Wednesday night’s episode of Tucker Carlson Tonight, the show’s namesake called for Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio and Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania to resign, saying that the two signed off on the burning of chemicals from a Norfolk Southern train that derailed earlier this month in East Palestine, Ohio.

Speaking on the events leading up to and following the burning, Carlson said, "In the subsequent days, a lot of people have wondered out loud, was it really a wise decision to light thousands of gallons of vinyl chloride on fire releasing a World War One-era bioweapon into the air over a populated area. Was that a good call?"

"Was that a good call? And was it really safe two days later for people to go back to their homes, and if it was safe, how do we know that? Is anyone in charge actually monitoring with any accuracy the level of deadly chemicals in the air ground and water in and around East Palestine? Well, no, apparently nobody is," Carlson added.

Carlson called it a "failure at all levels."

"The first duty of government is to protect its citizens. So it's bad," Carlson said, adding that it is "very bad news" for politicians like Shapiro and DeWine, "who may have helped make this disaster much worse."

Carlson said that DeWine and Shapiro are "desperately trying to revise their previous statements about the so-called controlled burn," now stating that the "toxic mushroom cloud over East Palestine, the one they signed off on and endorsed on television, was actually a bad thing. It wasn’t perfect."

More:
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-tucker-calls-for-gov-dewine-and-josh-shapiro-to-resign-after-signing-off-on-controlled-burn?utm_campaign=64483

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Offline Polly Ticks

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Not sure about other downstream areas, but the runs on bottled water are in full swing now in Louisville.
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Offline mountaineer

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Not sure about other downstream areas, but the runs on bottled water are in full swing now in Louisville.
I picked up another case today. Can't tell whether there's any panic buying. Local officials assure us our water isn't taken from the Ohio River.  :shrug:
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Offline Polly Ticks

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I picked up another case today. Can't tell whether there's any panic buying. Local officials assure us our water isn't taken from the Ohio River.  :shrug:

Ours is from the Ohio River.  Our local Kroger has nothing but empty shelves, and WalMart is not far behind. My kid is trying to fill an online order for 36 cases (he works in the online shopper area) as we speak.
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Offline mountaineer

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I thought ours was from the river, but have been advised it's from underground sources, instead. A town a few miles north of us, however, reportedly does take its water from the Ohio.

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