Author Topic: Hazardous Ohio Train Derailment Live | A Horrific Environmental Disaster Is Happening In Ohio  (Read 5071 times)

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Hazardous Ohio Train Derailment Live | A train derailment on Feb 3 in Ohio has turned into a full-fledged environmental disaster, and it’s received surprisingly little national media coverage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hr9ZDALaEM&ab_channel=TIMESNOW
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Meghan McCain
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So, a train derailed in Ohio on Friday carry hazardous materials - there is now a 10 mile radius of toxic fumes, and the Ohio river is now testing positive for toxic chemicals.

And golden boy Mayor Pete and the White House HAVE NOTHING TO SAY?!? Is this America?!? THIS IS INSANE
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Offline Kamaji

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Gross incompetence on the part of the Secretary of Transportation.  Why isn't Buttgeig there in person?

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Company Responsible For Ohio Train Derailment Issues List Of Cancer-Causing Substances Released
By  Ben Zeisloft

Feb 13, 2023   DailyWire.com

Norfolk Southern Railroad and the Environmental Protection Agency released a list of chemicals and hazardous materials on Sunday carried by a train that derailed in East Palestine, Ohio.

The derailment, which occurred on February 3, caused a fire that lasted several days. Officials decided to initiate a controlled release of the chemicals to mitigate the risk of an explosion; all residents within one mile of the crash site were told to evacuate, although they were permitted to return to their homes on February 8.

Norfolk Southern provided the EPA with a list of cars affected by the crash and the chemicals they were carrying. The company said all five cars containing vinyl chloride have been “stabilized” after the material was burned by crews, forming massive plumes of dark smoke that were visible in eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania.

Vinyl chloride is described by the National Cancer Institute as a carcinogen linked to a rare form of liver cancer called hepatic angiosarcoma, as well as lymphoma, leukemia, and various forms of brain and lung cancers. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration only permits exposure of one part per million during an industrial worker’s eight-hour shift.

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Offline deb

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Gross incompetence on the part of the Secretary of Transportation.  Why isn't Buttgeig there in person?

He’s probably still on maternity leave…
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Quote
Are they trying to cover it up because of the chemical cloud or because they have to admit there’s a geographical location called Palestine?
It's East Palestine, and it has no more to do with the middle eastern "Palestine" than nearby East Liverpool has anything to do with the Beatles' hometown.
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Vinyl Chloride, a deadly chemical has “contaminated the Ohio River due to train derailment

The Ohio River, which serves over 10% of the US Population, has reportedly become contaminated due to chemicals from the East Palestine train derailment. The river supplies public drinking water to over 5 million people in addition to industries all the way to West Virginia, effecting over 30 million people who live in the Ohio River Basin.

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1625249507762925581

This is the source of our drinking water. Guess I'll be buying a few more cases of drinking water tomorrow - if I can find it.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Looks like a roller bearing on one of the trucks failed. It may have held on for a while (hence, the video with the sparks/fire some miles back), and then "let go" quickly. It wasn't on a tank car, either, but on a covered hopper.

I haven't read anywhere as to WHERE the failure occurred in the train -- toward the head end, middle, toward the rear, etc.

I read earlier that the train had something like 141 loads and a few empties, getting close to 150 cars. With car lengths in a general freight train running 50-70 feet long, that's a mile-and-a-half +/-.

On the engine, you just can't see back that far. In most places you're lucky if you can see 30-40 cars back, if that far.

But these days, with their new-fangled concept of "precision scheduled railroading", they double-up two trains into one monster train, and run that (often with an engine "in the middle" and perhaps another on the rear, all controlled from the head unit). Fewer crews, less fuel consumed, more $$$ per train.

This can make handling more difficult, as well.

It will be interesting to see how the FRA addresses this. In the case of an accident with serious side effects (such as this one with the release of toxic chemicals, the full extent of which isn't yet known) there's going to be pressure to "do something". Usually this means some new kind of operating rule or federal regulation.

But not sure what they can do here. If the engineer wasn't doing anything he shouldn't have been doing (over the speed limit, etc), and the trackside defect detector didn't sound off until immediately before the train derailed (sounds like that's what happened), they probably can't pin this on the crew (which is the easy way out insofar as the company and feds are concerned).

They might go after the car department for not inspecting the train properly, but if the defect had not yet developed at the time the train left its initial starting point or passed the last point where there was "human inspection", can't go after them, either.

I'm thinking the feds may order that cars containing particularly hazardous materials travel in shorter, dedicated "haz/mat" trains, with lower speeds and frequent "human" inspections.

[Hey, did I ever tell ya about the time I had a special tank train of 40 cars of sulfuric acid, with NO BRAKES? No "properly working brakes", anyway. Got it from Pt. Jervis (NY/NJ/PA border) to Oak Island (outside Newark) without "using the air", at all!]

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Vinyl Chloride, a deadly chemical has “contaminated the Ohio River due to train derailment

The Ohio River, which serves over 10% of the US Population, has reportedly become contaminated due to chemicals from the East Palestine train derailment. The river supplies public drinking water to over 5 million people in addition to industries all the way to West Virginia, effecting over 30 million people who live in the Ohio River Basin.

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1625249507762925581

This is the source of our drinking water. Guess I'll be buying a few more cases of drinking water tomorrow - if I can find it.
I think the word everyone is really looking for is "affected" (to be influenced by) as opposed to "effected" (to cause to happen).

Sorry, pet peeve.
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I think the word everyone is really looking for is "affected" (to be influenced by) as opposed to "effected" (to cause to happen).

Sorry, pet peeve.

Yup. It’s a pet peeve of mine as well.

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Sorry, didn't notice the tweeter's typo or I would have corrected it.

Meanwhile:
Quote
EPA letter lists 3 other chemicals on derailed train cars in East Palestine
KDKA Pittsburgh
February 13, 2023 / 2:38 PM / CBS/AP

EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (KDKA/AP) - The EPA sent a letter to Norfolk Southern listing three other chemicals that were on the train cars that were breached or on fire after the derailment in East Palestine.

A hazardous materials specialist told CBS affiliate WKBN that one of those, ethylhexyl acrylate, is especially concerning because it's a carcinogen and can cause burning to the eyes and skin and breathing it in can cause issues.  ...

Vinyl chloride was slowly released into the air last Monday from five of those cars before crews ignited it to get rid of the highly flammable, toxic chemicals in a controlled environment, creating a dark plume of smoke.

Officials warned the controlled burn would send phosgene and hydrogen chloride into the air. Phosgene is a highly toxic, colorless gas with a strong odor that can cause vomiting and breathing trouble and was used as a weapon in World War I. 

Silvero Caggiano advises people in the area to get a health check-up and monitor their health moving forward. ...
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« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 12:32:36 am by mountaineer »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Looks like a roller bearing on one of the trucks failed. It may have held on for a while (hence, the video with the sparks/fire some miles back), and then "let go" quickly. It wasn't on a tank car, either, but on a covered hopper.

I haven't read anywhere as to WHERE the failure occurred in the train -- toward the head end, middle, toward the rear, etc.

I read earlier that the train had something like 141 loads and a few empties, getting close to 150 cars. With car lengths in a general freight train running 50-70 feet long, that's a mile-and-a-half +/-.

On the engine, you just can't see back that far. In most places you're lucky if you can see 30-40 cars back, if that far.

But these days, with their new-fangled concept of "precision scheduled railroading", they double-up two trains into one monster train, and run that (often with an engine "in the middle" and perhaps another on the rear, all controlled from the head unit). Fewer crews, less fuel consumed, more $$$ per train.

This can make handling more difficult, as well.

It will be interesting to see how the FRA addresses this. In the case of an accident with serious side effects (such as this one with the release of toxic chemicals, the full extent of which isn't yet known) there's going to be pressure to "do something". Usually this means some new kind of operating rule or federal regulation.

But not sure what they can do here. If the engineer wasn't doing anything he shouldn't have been doing (over the speed limit, etc), and the trackside defect detector didn't sound off until immediately before the train derailed (sounds like that's what happened), they probably can't pin this on the crew (which is the easy way out insofar as the company and feds are concerned).

They might go after the car department for not inspecting the train properly, but if the defect had not yet developed at the time the train left its initial starting point or passed the last point where there was "human inspection", can't go after them, either.

I'm thinking the feds may order that cars containing particularly hazardous materials travel in shorter, dedicated "haz/mat" trains, with lower speeds and frequent "human" inspections.

[Hey, did I ever tell ya about the time I had a special tank train of 40 cars of sulfuric acid, with NO BRAKES? No "properly working brakes", anyway. Got it from Pt. Jervis (NY/NJ/PA border) to Oak Island (outside Newark) without "using the air", at all!]
I figured it was that sort of failure (can't tell you how many prairie fires have been started by "hot boxes" along the rail lines here, and that has gotten better, but it only takes one under the right conditions).

By the tangle of cars shown in the (likely drone) aerial view, I figured there had to be a bunch of momentum behind the car(s) that failed.

Mile-long trains are nothing new to these parts, from freight moving through to grain trains to coal unit trains in Wyoming, to crude oil shipments going where pipelines don't.
 
Ideally, if there was a problem under one of the cars, they'd be able to alert a fire department up the line a short ways and cool it down/put it out at a crossing out of town or a siding, but that may not have been an option.

There was supposed to be a detector back where the security video caught the problem, and it should have notified someone there was a problem. If it was functioning, and if the notification got through in time. I don't pretend to know how that works.

With all the 'smart' gadgets out there, maybe there would be some way to have every bearing unit in the trucks set up to notify the engine if they overheated, but that could be a maintenance nightmare causing crazy scheduling problems, especially if the detectors were subject to vandalism.

Burning the vinyl chloride in the event of a leak might have been the very best option, considering it is a known carcinogen that targets the liver.
Combustion byproducts may be far less hazardous in the long run.
From the MSDS: https://www.airgas.com/msds/001067.pdf
Quote
Extremely flammable gas.
May form explosive mixtures with air.
Contains gas under pressure; may explode if heated.
May cause frostbite
May displace oxygen and cause rapid suffocation.
May cause cancer.
May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure. (liver)

Boiling point : -13.4°C (7.9°F)

Lower and upper explosive (flammable) limits:
 Lower: 3.8%
Upper: 29.3%

Exposure limits:
ACGIH TLV (United States, 3/2017).
TWA: 1 ppm 8 hours.
OSHA PEL (United States, 6/2016).
STEL: 5 ppm 15 minutes.
TWA: 1 ppm 8 hours.
OSHA PEL 1989 (United States, 3/1989).
STEL: 5 ppm 15 minutes.
TWA: 1 ppm 8 hours.

Now, for the good news (well, sorta).

From: https://www.waterfilteradvisor.com/contaminants/vinyl-chloride/

Vinyl chloride has low solubility in water.
Quote
According to the EPA, the recommended method of removing vinyl chloride from the water source is with packed tower aeration. Other ways to remove the chemical contaminant from the water is through the use of Reverse Osmosis, granular activated carbon (GAC), and other distillation methods. With most water filter systems packed with granular activated carbon, you can remove vinyl chloride to below the EPA’s regulated water standards.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 12:28:55 am by Smokin Joe »
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This story up next on Jesse Watter's show...

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 February 13, 2023 6:36pm EST
Ohio train derailment: Rep. Omar calls out Buttigieg for 'direct action,' Vance says 'many questions remain'
Ohio Sen. JD Vance said he's heard 'alarming anecdotes about contaminated waterways and effects on wildlife'

By Paul Best | Fox News


Sen. JD Vance, R-Ohio, said Monday that he's "horrified" by the Norfolk Southern train derailment earlier this month in East Palestine, warning that many questions remain unanswered after a controlled release of toxic chemicals shrouded the town in thick plumes of black smoke.

About 50 cars, including several carrying vinyl chloride, derailed on the evening of Feb. 3 due to a broken axle.

Three days after the derailment, authorities decided to burn off the toxic gases to avoid an explosion, sending hydrogen chloride and phosgene, a toxic chemical used as a weapon in World War I, into the air.





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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ohio-train-derailment-rep-omar-calls-direct-action-buttigieg-vance-many-questions-remain
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Offline Hoodat

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The EPA should be all over this.  Unfortunately, they suck when it comes to cleaning up the environment.  They are much more adept at destroying businesses than they are at protecting the environment.  They will eventually declare this a superfund site and use it as leverage for the next 20 years to pry more funding out of Congress.  Just in the last two years, they have gotten an additional $5 billion for their Superfund, yet haven't cleaned up a single one of them.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 03:56:14 am by Hoodat »
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Pete Buttigieg And Chernobyl in Ohio
Sam Faddis
15 hr ago

I guess if you are going to be the worst President in American history you want a Transportation Secretary that is equally bad.  Pete Buttigieg, the man who ran for President on a solid record of mediocrity and being gay, certainly fits that bill. Ask the people of East Palestine, Ohio.  ...

Buttigieg’s Department of Transportation decided to make it much worse. Authorities made the decision to burn the vinyl chloride to prevent derailed tanker cars from exploding.  When vinyl chloride burns it turns into hydrogen chloride. When hydrogen chloride enters the atmosphere it bonds with water vapor and forms hydrochloric acid. That means hundreds of thousands of pounds of acid have now been released into the environment.  ...

Where is Buttigieg, our Secretary of Transportation? Busy with other matters. In public announcements and comments recently, he has talked about the dangers posed by an excess of white people working in construction. He has also had time to talk about a book called “Song of Achilles” a gay rewrite of the Iliad. He hasn’t said a word about East Palestine, Ohio.

The area surrounding the burn is already feeling the impact of the release of the immense amount of acid in question. Fish are dying. Farm animals are dying. Contamination of the Ohio River has now been reported as far as West Virginia. The Ohio River feeds into the Mississippi.  ...
https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/pete-buttigieg-and-chernobyl-in-ohio?fbclid=IwAR0TKfD3QVdLPObmPKQowefhJVJNV7iC_NXqDF9rS-qK2vuemxkmcU3eC4Q
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