Details Surface of Biden Administration Deliberately Destroying Nord Stream Pipeline, Then Lying Abo

[mystery-ak]

Details Surface of Biden Administration Deliberately Destroying Nord Stream Pipeline, Then Lying About It Repeatedly
February 8, 2023 | Sundance | 187 Comments

One of the things about big lies is the sheer weight they create, and the effort needed to maintain them.  Everyone of reasonably intelligent disposition knew the Russians did not blow up their own Nord Stream gas pipeline last year; they had no motive to do so.  All indications were always that the U.S. government conducted the operation and then obfuscated blame toward Russia.

Investigative journalist Mr. Seymour Hersh now writes a comprehensive outline showcasing just how the Biden operation to destroy Nord Stream was conducted. 

[Seymour Hersh] […] “In December of 2021, two months before the first Russian tanks rolled into Ukraine, Jake Sullivan convened a meeting of a newly formed task force—men and women from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, and the State and Treasury Departments—and asked for recommendations about how to respond to Putin’s impending invasion.

It would be the first of a series of top-secret meetings, in a secure room on a top floor of the Old Executive Office Building, adjacent to the White House, that was also the home of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB). There was the usual back and forth chatter that eventually led to a crucial preliminary question: Would the recommendation forwarded by the group to the President be reversible—such as another layer of sanctions and currency restrictions—or irreversible—that is, kinetic actions, which could not be undone?

What became clear to participants, according to the source with direct knowledge of the process, is that Sullivan intended for the group to come up with a plan for the destruction of the two Nord Stream pipelines—and that he was delivering on the desires of the President.” (read more)

more
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/08/details-surface-of-biden-administration-deliberately-destroying-nord-stream-pipeline-then-lying-about-it-repeatedly/

[Timber Rattler]

Problem is that Seymour Hersh is a notorious conspiracy theorist who hasn't been right about anything since My Lai.

[Bigun]

Problem is that Seymour Hersh is a notorious conspiracy theorist who hasn't been right about anything since My Lai.

 

[Kamaji]

He writes an interesting spy thriller, but absent verifiable facts, that’s all it is.

[catfish1957]

Tucker Carlson had a block concerning this on tonight's show and evidence around our government's intervention. No clips have been posted yet, but some of the claims seemed pretty specific.

Not advocating either way at this point.  But two things seem to be pretty safe bets at this point:

1.  There is compelling evidence that the pipeine was intentionally destroyed
2.  No matter what anyone says, there is no plusible reason that Putin destroyed his own energy hardware after many billions of dollars of investment.

I despise Putin as much as the next Briefer, but if blowing up this pipeline is tied to U.S. / NATO, this is an act of war.  No way that Putin doesn't see it otherwise. 

[catfish1957]

Ingraham  also having a segment on the subject tonight.  (On now...after the commerical break)

[Kamaji]

Tucker Carlson had a block concerning this on tonight's show and evidence around our government's intervention. No clips have been posted yet, but some of the claims seemed pretty specific.

Not advocating either way at this point.  But two things seem to be pretty safe bets at this point:

1.  There is compelling evidence that the pipeine was intentionally destroyed
2.  No matter what anyone says, there is no plusible reason that Putin destroyed his own energy hardware after many billions of dollars of investment.

I despise Putin as much as the next Briefer, but if blowing up this pipeline is tied to U.S. / NATO, this is an act of war.  No way that Putin doesn't see it otherwise. 

And, what, Putin is waiting for Tucker Carlson to show him proof?  The neo-soviets have a lot of failings, but their intelligence resources are not so lacking that they depend on Western pundits to provide them proof. 

[catfish1957]

And, what, Putin is waiting for Tucker Carlson to show him proof?  The neo-soviets have a lot of failings, but their intelligence resources are not so lacking that they depend on Western pundits to provide them proof.

@Kamaji

Like I said, I am not advocating for either way, but with the concept of the burden of proof is a 2 edged sword.  And being from the oil industry, and understanding the costs and intracies of how difficult and expensive it is to build stuctural hardware in the oil and petrochemical industry.  Why and how is there any level of plausibility that Mad Vlad would blow up his own infrastructure that would have paid long term profits to his industrial base for several decades?  There are just no good reasons why Putin would conduct a false flag of this consequence.  That would be beyond insane, as there would be a 1000 less drastic ways, if that was his intent.

So sorry Kamaji.  From my POV, this  this doesn't pass the smell test.  Do I or anyone else rght now have 100% proof that our CIA or other aspect of our governemt has the hand in the cookie jar?  Of course not, as they are experts in not leaving the forensic evidence to prove otherwise.    But the more we learn about how our government it is becoming extemely evident that they do not have our best interests at hand.   And my 2 cents?....  they  can not be trusted under any circumstance.    Addtionally, even our State Dept. gave more than one veiled kryptic threat that "Nordstorm Would Not Happen" prior to its surgical destruction.   And golly geez, look what happened.

And further consideration, look at the  breadth and scope of this commando raid, and  realize  only a government run operation would have the hardware, expetise, and  logistics ability to conduct this level of mischief. 

So of course, proof?  No.  But if I was to estimate ours or NATO''s involvement?  I'd say it is a solid 90%.

 

[Smokin Joe]

@Kamaji

Like I said, I am not advocating for either way, but with the concept of the burden of proof is a 2 edged sword.  And being from the oil industry, and understanding the costs and intracies of how difficult and expensive it is to build stuctural hardware in the oil and petrochemical industry.  Why and how is there any level of plausibility that Mad Vlad would blow up his own infrastructure that would have paid long term profits to his industrial base for several decades?  There are just no good reasons why Putin would conduct a false flag of this consequence.  That would be beyond insane, as there would be a 1000 less drastic ways, if that was his intent.

So sorry Kamaji.  From my POV, this  this doesn't pass the smell test.  Do I or anyone else rght now have 100% proof that our CIA or other aspect of our governemt has the hand in the cookie jar?  Of course not, as they are experts in not leaving the forensic evidence to prove otherwise.    But the more we learn about how our government it is becoming extemely evident that they do not have our best interests at hand.   And my 2 cents?....  they  can not be trusted under any circumstance.    Addtionally, even our State Dept. gave more than one veiled kryptic threat that "Nordstorm Would Not Happen" prior to its surgical destruction.   And golly geez, look what happened.

And further consideration, look at the  breadth and scope of this commando raid, and  realize  only a government run operation would have the hardware, expetise, and  logistics ability to conduct this level of mischief. 

So of course, proof?  No.  But if I was to estimate ours or NATO''s involvement?  I'd say it is a solid 90%.

Unless there were some serious flaws in the pipelines unknown outside a few in Russia, I can see no reason for a False Flag op from within Russia. If, however, that pipeline wasn't living up to its intended capability or there were signs of future failure, all bets are off.

I agree, this Administration is a loose cannon on a weather deck.

[catfish1957]

Unless there were some serious flaws in the pipelines unknown outside a few in Russia, I can see no reason for a False Flag op from within Russia. If, however, that pipeline wasn't living up to its intended capability or there were signs of future failure, all bets are off.

I agree, this Administration is a loose cannon on a weather deck.

I had people working for me, way back when we had decent relations with Russia, helpiing in a ROSNEFT (Russian State Oil) JV  on SHE related matters.  Not saying they had 100% our level of compentnency, but they were not slouches either.  I seriously doubt that there were design flaws that would facilitate them deep sixing their own project.

Don't forget that not only the area proximal to the explosion was impacted.  I am sure that after the breach, 100's of miles of pipeline got a back flush of salt water.  And beleive me from experience after a hurricane at a plant........    Salt Water and Carbon Steel do not mix well together.

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

Like I said, I am not advocating for either way, but with the concept of the burden of proof is a 2 edged sword.  And being from the oil industry, and understanding the costs and intracies of how difficult and expensive it is to build stuctural hardware in the oil and petrochemical industry.  Why and how is there any level of plausibility that Mad Vlad would blow up his own infrastructure that would have paid long term profits to his industrial base for several decades?  There are just no good reasons why Putin would conduct a false flag of this consequence.  That would be beyond insane, as there would be a 1000 less drastic ways, if that was his intent.

So sorry Kamaji.  From my POV, this  this doesn't pass the smell test.  Do I or anyone else rght now have 100% proof that our CIA or other aspect of our governemt has the hand in the cookie jar?  Of course not, as they are experts in not leaving the forensic evidence to prove otherwise.    But the more we learn about how our government it is becoming extemely evident that they do not have our best interests at hand.   And my 2 cents?....  they  can not be trusted under any circumstance.    Addtionally, even our State Dept. gave more than one veiled kryptic threat that "Nordstorm Would Not Happen" prior to its surgical destruction.   And golly geez, look what happened.

And further consideration, look at the  breadth and scope of this commando raid, and  realize  only a government run operation would have the hardware, expetise, and  logistics ability to conduct this level of mischief. 

So of course, proof?  No.  But if I was to estimate ours or NATO''s involvement?  I'd say it is a solid 90%.

 

It shows no proof either way.  Assuming it was blown, it was more likely an operation funded by Ukraine.  Lack of evidence for any party leaves the balance of circumstance pointing at them, not at NATO.

[catfish1957]

It shows no proof either way.  Assuming it was blown, it was more likely an operation funded by Ukraine.  Lack of evidence for any party leaves the balance of circumstance pointing at them, not at NATO.

Eyeballing piping I have seen installed in this service, I'd say OD thickness is somewhere in the 1/2"-1" range, and often designed to meet 1500+ psia design pressures.  And being brand new?  I'd venture 99.99999% chance this pipleline  was "blown".  But who?  Do you think a 2nd/3rd-ish world power like Ukraine would have the expertise to conduct this kind of covert activity?  Or even a private 3rd  party?   I am guessing not.  They at least had some help, and if I was required to bet, would hedge those wagers on NATO/U.S.

[Kamaji]

Eyeballing piping I have seen installed in this service, I'd say OD thickness is somewhere in the 1/2"-1" range, and often designed to meet 1500+ psia design pressures.  And being brand new?  I'd venture 99.99999% chance this pipleline  was "blown".  But who?  Do you think a 2nd/3rd-ish world power like Ukraine would have the expertise to conduct this kind of covert activity?  Or even a private 3rd  party?   I am guessing not.  They at least had some help, and if I was required to bet, would hedge those wagers on NATO/U.S.

Ukraine has been constantly surprising with their resourcefulness and skill, and money would buy a lot of private/mercenary skill.

Very unlikely to be NATO, given the risks of that being treated as an act of war.

[catfish1957]

Very unlikely to be NATO, given the risks of that being treated as an act of war.

You make a good point there, but how do you see those kryptic State Dept. messages alluding that the Pipeline "Won't Happen" prior to its own demise.  The old "where there is smoke, there's fire' axiom fits more than one way here.   And since there is this hell bended insane push toward conflict?  Sorry, but my trust in our government has permanently been extracted. 

[Kamaji]

You make a good point there, but how do you see those kryptic State Dept. messages alluding that the Pipeline "Won't Happen" prior to its own demise.  The old "where there is smoke, there's fire' axiom fits more than one way here.   And since there is this hell bended insane push toward conflict?  Sorry, but my trust in our government has permanently been extracted. 

Wishful thinking.

But let's play this out - assume for the sake of fanciful argument that the U.S. sent a bunch of little frogmen over to blow up the pipeline:  what is gained by so assiduously trying to publicize that point?  Assuming that Russia is so blinkered and incapable that they cannot discover facts that Tucker Carlson can, why give them causus belli?  Are we so pro-Russian now - in a pavlov's dog sort of way - that we want to encourage Putin to go to war?

[catfish1957]

Wishful thinking.

But let's play this out - assume for the sake of fanciful argument that the U.S. sent a bunch of little frogmen over to blow up the pipeline:  what is gained by so assiduously trying to publicize that point?  Assuming that Russia is so blinkered and incapable that they cannot discover facts that Tucker Carlson can, why give them causus belli?  Are we so pro-Russian now - in a pavlov's dog sort of way - that we want to encourage Putin to go to war?

I am anything but pro-Russian.  I have on many occasions blasted Putin for his misdeeds.  I do OTOH, I have a massive mistrust in our government, and would put not put anything past them that might help line the coffers of military-industrial complex.  You soon forget the big dollar incentives for them, if the conflict is not only maintained but is escalated. No Pavlov's dog aspect to it.  Our government can not be trusted under any circumstances.   

Our own State Dept. even infered its destruction.  There are no coincidence in geo-political matters.

[Kamaji]

I am anything but pro-Russian.  I have on many occasions blasted Putin for his misdeeds.  I do OTOH, I have a massive mistrust in our government, and would put not put anything past them that might help line the coffers of military-industrial complex.  You soon forget the big dollar incentives for them, if the conflict is not only maintained but is escalated. No Pavlov's dog aspect to it.  Our government can not be trusted under any circumstances.   

Our own State Dept. even infered its destruction.  There are no coincidence in geo-political matters.

I realize that you are, generally speaking, not pro-Russian or pro-Putin; so why spend so much time trying to force a conclusion - in the absence of actual evidence - that would do nothing but provide support for Putin?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Read the article for yourself.....

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
Substack, Feb 8, 2023, Seymour Hirsch

The U.S. Navy’s Diving and Salvage Center can be found in a location as obscure as its name—down what was once a country lane in rural Panama City, a now-booming resort city in the southwestern panhandle of Florida, 70 miles south of the Alabama border. The center’s complex is as nondescript as its location—a drab concrete post-World War II structure that has the look of a vocational high school on the west side of Chicago. A coin-operated laundromat and a dance school are across what is now a four-lane road.

The center has been training highly skilled deep-water divers for decades who, once assigned to American military units worldwide, are capable of technical diving to do the good—using C4 explosives to clear harbors and beaches of debris and unexploded ordinance—as well as the bad, like blowing up foreign oil rigs, fouling intake valves for undersea power plants, destroying locks on crucial shipping canals. The Panama City center, which boasts the second largest indoor pool in America, was the perfect place to recruit the best, and most taciturn, graduates of the diving school who successfully did last summer what they had been authorized to do 260 feet under the surface of the Baltic Sea.

Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible.

There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

More:
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

[catfish1957]

I realize that you are, generally speaking, not pro-Russian or pro-Putin; so why spend so much time trying to force a conclusion - in the absence of actual evidence - that would do nothing but provide support for Putin?

No way any form or fashion of any level of support for Putin.  OTOH, I don't think taking any needless path toward World War 3 is a good idea.   Military accidents happen, and we all lose then.

Responding to simple lack of evidence, might be construed as an ostrich with his head in the ground. No thanks.

Which seems to be the intent of idiotic Biden and his band of RINO allies.   

[catfish1957]

Read the article for yourself.....

Substack has been one of the most dependable, credible conservative depository sources for quite a while now.  Now our side is dissing it?

Wierd....

[Kamaji]

No way any form or fashion of any level of support for Putin.  OTOH, I don't think taking any needless path toward World War 3 is a good idea.   Military accidents happen, and we all lose then.

Responding to simple lack of evidence, might be construed as an ostrich with his head in the ground. No thanks.

Which seems to be the intent of idiotic Biden and his band of RINO allies.   

Giving Putin the grounds to claim that the destruction of the pipeline was an act of war on Russia by the U.S. is most certainly (a) pro-Putin, and (b) pro-WW III so, again, I would ask, what is the percentage in trying to force that conclusion without clear objective evidence?

[Kamaji]

Read the article for yourself.....

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
Substack, Feb 8, 2023, Seymour Hirsch

The U.S. Navy’s Diving and Salvage Center can be found in a location as obscure as its name—down what was once a country lane in rural Panama City, a now-booming resort city in the southwestern panhandle of Florida, 70 miles south of the Alabama border. The center’s complex is as nondescript as its location—a drab concrete post-World War II structure that has the look of a vocational high school on the west side of Chicago. A coin-operated laundromat and a dance school are across what is now a four-lane road.

The center has been training highly skilled deep-water divers for decades who, once assigned to American military units worldwide, are capable of technical diving to do the good—using C4 explosives to clear harbors and beaches of debris and unexploded ordinance—as well as the bad, like blowing up foreign oil rigs, fouling intake valves for undersea power plants, destroying locks on crucial shipping canals. The Panama City center, which boasts the second largest indoor pool in America, was the perfect place to recruit the best, and most taciturn, graduates of the diving school who successfully did last summer what they had been authorized to do 260 feet under the surface of the Baltic Sea.

Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible.

There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

More:
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

Ahh, yes, the infamous "The Source" - without any substantiation, or basis in fact, for believing that this is anything other than one of the myriad voices in Hersh's own head.

I'll give him this:  he writes good fiction; he should stick to that.

[catfish1957]

Giving Putin the grounds to claim that the destruction of the pipeline was an act of war on Russia by the U.S. is most certainly (a) pro-Putin, and (b) pro-WW III so, again, I would ask, what is the percentage in trying to force that conclusion without clear objective evidence?

Not me giving the grounds.  Just an event, and given the facts around the event, requires discussion.

I see it as a posisbly moment of reflection, and introspection where maybe this thing can deescalate before we reach WW III.  Give me one example or reason where Biden or the RINOs are doing so.  Everything I am seeing from U.S/NATO is only doing the opposite.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Listen to Biden's own promise .....

"President Biden on Nord Stream 2 Pipeline if Russia Invades Ukraine: "We will bring an end to it.". (Video)


https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8



Biden: "I promise you, we will end Nordstream 2". (Video)
Feb 9, 2022

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1623363506815832076

[catfish1957]

Listen to Biden's own promise .....

"President Biden on Nord Stream 2 Pipeline if Russia Invades Ukraine: "We will bring an end to it.". (Video)


https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8



Biden: "I promise you, we will end Nordstream 2". (Video)
Feb 9, 2022

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1623363506815832076

Which was also echoed and repeated by State Department Spokes-persons.