Who Lost Vietnam? Mark Moyar’s New Book Spreads the Blame

[mystery-ak]

 Who Lost Vietnam? Mark Moyar’s New Book Spreads the Blame
The book trashes what Moyar calls the “orthodox” view of the war.
by Francis P. Sempa
January 29, 2023, 10:35 PM

Triumph Regained: The Vietnam War, 1965-1968
By Mark Moyar
(Encounter Books, 732 pages, $50)

Scholars and writers who challenge conventional accounts of history are often courageous and invaluable seekers of truth. They don’t always find the whole truth, but their work often gets us closer to what really happened. One such scholar is Mark Moyar, whose second volume of a projected three-volume study of the Vietnam War has just been published by Encounter Books. Titled Triumph Regained: The Vietnam War, 1965-1968, the book effectively trashes what Moyar calls the “orthodox” view of the war — the view of most American history books and the famous and widely watched PBS documentaries of Stanley Karnow and Ken Burns.

Moyar’s most important conclusion after reviewing U.S., South Vietnamese, and especially North Vietnamese sources is that the United States and its allies were on the verge of winning the war in 1968, after the North Vietnamese Army suffered devastating defeats in the Tet Offensive and two subsequent offensives, but self-imposed political restrictions on bombing, troop levels, interdicting the Ho Chi Minh trail, and attacking communist sanctuaries in Laos, Cambodia, the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), and North Vietnam, as well as elite media misinformation snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. (READ MORE: The Lingering Fog of War and Lessons From Vietnam)

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https://spectator.org/who-lost-vietnam-mark-moyars-new-book-spreads-the-blame/

[Bigun]

Lyndon Baines Johnson gets the blame as far as I'm concerned. (I was there and have thoroughly researched the matter.) Had he listened to his military commanders instead of Robert S. McNamara and his ilk that war would have ended much sooner and FAR more favorably to our interests.

BTW: Moyers books are VERY good! His first book (Triumph Forsaken) told so much truth the poor guy was blackballed for it.

Since the publication of volume one, my family has been subjected to great stress by the combination of this project with the unconventional career path of a conservative scholar and a number of other unforeseen developments. That we have been able to make it through is a testament to the fortitude of my wife Kelli and our children Greta, Trent, and Luke as well as the support of friends and family, especially my parents, Bert and Marjorie. We also owe thanks to God, source of all strength and wisdom.

Moyar, Mark. Triumph Regained (p. 568). Encounter Books. Kindle Edition.

[Smokin Joe]

Lyndon Baines Johnson gets the blame as far as I'm concerned. (I was there and have thoroughly researched the matter.) Had he listened to his military commanders instead of Robert S. McNamara and his ilk that war would have ended much sooner and FAR more favorably to our interests.

BTW: Moyers books are VERY good! His first book (Triumph Forsaken) told so much truth the poor guy was blackballed for it.

The American Media, especially Walter Cronkite, who, with total gravitas, told the American People the war was unwinnable. This only fueled and assisted the protesters, the communists and useful tools in the streets of America and in Paris (J f'n Kerry's "winter soldier" gig and Hanoi Jane posing on NVA AA guns). I have not watched a movie with her in it since, and refuse to.
After Tet (1868) the Vietcong had shot their wad. They failed to hold any of the provincial capitals they had attacked, though it took a little while to root them out of Hue.

The politicians get credit, too, but the final deciding factor was (Democrats) de-funding the South Vietnamese and pulling air support at the critical time when armored columns and massed troops coming in from the North could have been seriously eliminated by air support.

Here, too, we saw that every trip to the negotiating tables was just a ploy to allow the NVA to regroup and resupply, and not a serious push for a settlement.

[LMAO]

The American Media, especially Walter Cronkite, who, with total gravitas, told the American People the war was unwinnable. This only fueled and assisted the protesters, the communists and useful tools in the streets of America and in Paris (J f'n Kerry's "winter soldier" gig and Hanoi Jane posing on NVA AA guns). I have not watched a movie with her in it since, and refuse to.
After Tet (1868) the Vietcong had shot their wad. They failed to hold any of the provincial capitals they had attacked, though it took a little while to root them out of Hue.

The politicians get credit, too, but the final deciding factor was (Democrats) de-funding the South Vietnamese and pulling air support at the critical time when armored columns and massed troops coming in from the North could have been seriously eliminated by air support.

Here, too, we saw that every trip to the negotiating tables was just a ploy to allow the NVA to regroup and resupply, and not a serious push for a settlement.

My feelings regarding Jane Fonda are the same as yours. A lot of Americans turned against the Vietnam War. But that didn’t mean they jumped an NVA anti-aircraft gun, and let themselves be used by communist propagandists

[Bigun]

The American Media, especially Walter Cronkite, who, with total gravitas, told the American People the war was unwinnable. This only fueled and assisted the protesters, the communists and useful tools in the streets of America and in Paris (J f'n Kerry's "winter soldier" gig and Hanoi Jane posing on NVA AA guns). I have not watched a movie with her in it since, and refuse to.
After Tet (1868) the Vietcong had shot their wad. They failed to hold any of the provincial capitals they had attacked, though it took a little while to root them out of Hue.

The politicians get credit, too, but the final deciding factor was (Democrats) de-funding the South Vietnamese and pulling air support at the critical time when armored columns and massed troops coming in from the North could have been seriously eliminated by air support.

Here, too, we saw that every trip to the negotiating tables was just a ploy to allow the NVA to regroup and resupply, and not a serious push for a settlement.

I agree with ALL of that @Smokin Joe but MY point is that it would never have gotten to that point had LBJ simply left the war fighting to the war fighters at any time after mid 1965 the war would have been over in six months or less.

[Smokin Joe]

I agree with ALL of that @Smokin Joe but MY point is that it would never have gotten to that point had LBJ simply left the war fighting to the war fighters at any time after mid 1965 the war would have been over in six months or less.

IIRC, Lady Bird had extensive holdings in KBR and was making bank off of war construction.
LBJ did a lot of damage in his time in office, and fouling up Vietnam was just part of it.

[Bigun]

IIRC, Lady Bird had extensive holdings in KBR and was making bank off of war construction.
LBJ did a lot of damage in his time in office, and fouling up Vietnam was just part of it.

Back then it was just Brown & Root and their subsidiaries. Alaska Barge Company being chief among them.

[Smokin Joe]

Back then it was just Brown & Root and their subsidiaries. Alaska Barge Company being chief among them.

True, I used their current name.

[catfish1957]

Counterculture that infiltrated our society and became entrenched has got to shoulder a lot of the blame too.

I remember well.

[DefiantMassRINO]

The objective in Vietnam was to maintain a geopoltical status quo in former French Indochina.

Much of late 20th Century US strategy was to prevent the territories of the collapsing English and French colonial empires from falling into the Soviet sphere of influence.

To maintain detente with the Soviet Union and China, the West went on the defensive while the Communists were always on the offensive.

[Bigun]

Counterculture that infiltrated our society and became entrenched has got to shoulder a lot of the blame too.

I remember well.

No counterculture would have developed had LBJ listened to his military leaders. The war would have been over FAR before that happened.

[DefiantMassRINO]

To win the Vietnam War, the US would have to complete the unfinished business of the Korean War - defeating Communist China.

If they weren't willing to defeat China, the VietNam conflict was unwinnable.

[Bigun]

The objective in Vietnam was to maintain a geopoltical status quo in former French Indochina.

Much of late 20th Century US strategy was to prevent the territories of the collapsing English and French colonial empires from falling into the Soviet sphere of influence.

To maintain detente with the Soviet Union and China, the West went on the defensive while the Communists were always on the offensive.

And that paid off handsomely except for the last sentence. That occurred because we had far too many communists in our own government calling the shots.  Our Department of State remains riddled with them to this moment.

The list of countries saved from communist domination is long.

[Bigun]

To win the Vietnam War, the US would have to complete the unfinished business of the Korean War - defeating Communist China.

If they weren't willing to defeat China, the VietNam conflict was unwinnable.

But for our own Department of State handing China over to Mao that problem would not exist.

[catfish1957]

No counterculture would have developed had LBJ listened to his military leaders. The war would have been over FAR before that happened.

Agreed.  There was plenty of blame to go around. But the counterculture that developed basically villified even most all anyone asscociated with the military, even down to PFC. 

Ask vets coming back from Vietnam and how they were treated 1970-1975

There was no fairness, much less sense of that happening.  That is how sinster and intrusive it became. I love the music of the era, but in many cases in was misguided.

[Smokin Joe]

The objective in Vietnam was to maintain a geopoltical status quo in former French Indochina.

Much of late 20th Century US strategy was to prevent the territories of the collapsing English and French colonial empires from falling into the Soviet sphere of influence.

To maintain detente with the Soviet Union and China, the West went on the defensive while the Communists were always on the offensive.

It also maintained a source of raw materials for the developing Japanese production economy that was not under communist influence. Much of what we did was to keep the Japanese from being pulled into the Communist Bloc. In the '50s and early '60s, "Made in Japan" was the equivalent of "Made in China" today. After the Japanese export economy had transitioned from misc sundries to automobiles, motorcycles, and electronics, the war ended.

[Hoodat]

Here, too, we saw that every trip to the negotiating tables was just a ploy to allow the NVA to regroup and resupply, and not a serious push for a settlement.

Didn't John Kerry help them out with that?  Coordinated with them to time negotiation sessions with specific protests in the US?  In other words, didn't John Kerry commit open treason against the United States for which he should be hung from the neck until dead?

[Hoodat]

But for our own Department of State handing China over to Mao that problem would not exist.

And the left has the gall to credit Truman with winning the Cold War.

[Smokin Joe]

Didn't John Kerry help them out with that?  Coordinated with them to time negotiation sessions with specific protests in the US?  In other words, didn't John Kerry commit open treason against the United States for which he should be hung from the neck until dead?

Apparently he was in Paris hobnobbing with the North Vietnamese, which sure sounds like a violation of the Logan Act at a minimum, and considering his 'testimony' at the 'Winter Soldier' gig, treason isn't much of a stretch.

[Smokin Joe]

And the left has the gall to credit Truman with winning the Cold War.

I'd have to give Reagan that one.

[Bigun]

And the left has the gall to credit Truman with winning the Cold War.

You have to understand what the word "winning" means in their minds.

[Smokin Joe]

You have to understand what the word "winning" means in their minds.

Nah. You just have to remember which side they are on.

[Bigun]

Nah. You just have to remember which side they are on.

Same thing if you ask me.